collapse
Double U Hunting Supply Bearpaw Outfitters, Quality Hunts for over 30 Years

Author Topic: .223 for blackbear?  (Read 14881 times)

Offline mountainman

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 2825
  • Location: Wenatchee, Wa
.223 for blackbear?
« on: October 27, 2012, 12:24:47 PM »
On a discussion in regards to calibers for blackbear under guns and ammo here, a member made this statement...

"I would go at a bear with a .223 Remington and a 60gr Nosler Partition if it were legal. Of course the proper side arm would be on hand for back up. It's just a black bear. "

Opinions??
 
That Sword is more important than the Shield!

Offline Skillet

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 3702
  • Location: Sitka / Everett
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 12:27:45 PM »
It's just a black bear.

Not a bear hunter, so I can't comment on the choice of weapon - but I don't care much for this attitude.   :twocents:
KABOOM Count - 1

"The ocean is calling, and I must go."

Offline D-Rock425

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 11863
  • Location: Lake stevens
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 12:33:30 PM »
 :bash: :bdid:

Offline FC

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 3954
  • Location: Wa
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 12:38:48 PM »
You could probably kill one with a potato gun too if you hit it just right but it's not a very kind method for the animal.  :twocents:
The reason there are so many Ruger upgrades is because they're necessary.

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17101
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 01:45:55 PM »
You can use one for a cougar.  :dunno:  Here is what i would say. IF you could use a .223 you would need a perfect shot AND need to be close likely within 100yards or so. I can tell you that i would hunt bear with a .223 if it were legal, but for a different reason than you might think... I am likely to get a savage model 24 or the new 42 in a .223 over a 12 ga under. I would much prefer they offer it in a .243...  This state has a problem with predators of ALL kinds so If i could get a great west side calling gun I would likely hunt predators only like crazy. I think a .223 is much less than ideal and would think that anyone with a .223 also has a more capable rifle/round...
The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Offline Biggerhammer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Powder, primer, bullet JUNKIE.
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 02:12:45 PM »
Just read this thread, it will give you the full context of why Mtn Man's panties are in a knot. :chuckle:

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,108474.30.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 02:23:09 PM by Biggerhammer »
The true eye sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium. It's a demonstration of superior judgement.

Never mistake motion for action.

Yes.... I'm a hater!

A offer to all HuntWA members. If you don't have something nice to say. I'll say it for you.👍

Offline iusmc2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 370
  • Location: Colville, WA
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 02:23:35 PM »
Apparently some don't understand context.  Or they don't WANT to understand it and would rather start an interwebz fight.  Either way, if you look at the rest of those posts, the statement equates the animal to the round.  "It's just a black bear (not a grizzly, rhino or wildebeest)  Folks have been killing things as small as "just a black bear" with rounds much less substantial than a .223 with a 60gr Partition for a long time (spears, bow and arrow, anyone?)  But understanding the context just wouldn't make it any fun, now would it??

Offline Biggerhammer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Powder, primer, bullet JUNKIE.
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 02:32:19 PM »
Apparently some don't understand context.  Or they don't WANT to understand it and would rather start an interwebz fight.  Either way, if you look at the rest of those posts, the statement equates the animal to the round.  "It's just a black bear (not a grizzly, rhino or wildebeest)  Folks have been killing things as small as "just a black bear" with rounds much less substantial than a .223 with a 60gr Partition for a long time (spears, bow and arrow, anyone?)  But understanding the context just wouldn't make it any fun, now would it??

Bingo! I've watched the Alaskan Natives do some crazy stuff with small cartridges.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 02:43:38 PM by Biggerhammer »
The true eye sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium. It's a demonstration of superior judgement.

Never mistake motion for action.

Yes.... I'm a hater!

A offer to all HuntWA members. If you don't have something nice to say. I'll say it for you.👍

Offline xXLojackXx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1051
  • Location: Kirkland
  • TWO BAD HOMBRES
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 06:51:34 PM »
A 60gr partition to the head or a 60gr VMax to the neck will definitely kill a black bear. The margin for error is drastically smaller though. I'd rather put a 200gr Accubond through its heart/lungs

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34000
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 07:03:15 PM »
I'd use a Barnes rather than a Partition, but I'm sure it would kill a bear just fine. Definitely not the caliber I would choose for bear, but if it's what I had when an opportunity at a bear came up, I'd use it (not in this state though, it's not legal).

But really, people hunt bears with archery gear, I think a 223 would be more effective than an arrow.


Offline Jim the Plumber

  • Local Legend
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 473
  • Hunting trespassers from the air
    • http://precisiontactical.co/
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 07:08:52 PM »
There are some very talented key board users that lay claim to a lot of stuff. If one delves into their post's, you will see these same people, by their own admission,  unable to put down a small 3 point mule deer at point blank range with a magnum rifle they, apparently, are  afraid of.
Then claim to have the wherewithal to do a spine/ brain shot on a bear.

Offline Jingles

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1881
  • Location: 98862
    • Vern Herrst
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 07:12:59 PM »
Coming from a person that killed a 375 pound blackbear with a 243 at 150 yards withe a 100 grqin Nosler partition 1 shot bear went maybe 40 yards before piling up.  the 243 is the absolute smallest I would go and trust me I was a nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rockers after I did because I sat down and got to thinking all I did was Pizz it off now I have to go after it to finish it off with nothing but the 243 and a 45 LC in super think jungle brush.. You know that stuff where you wish you had a machete so you could get through without belly crawling. I personally think a 223 is just a bit small to get the best penetration
Follow my Horseback Adventure from WA to MI on FB @ 2016 Great Northern Horse Adventure

Offline Jim the Plumber

  • Local Legend
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 473
  • Hunting trespassers from the air
    • http://precisiontactical.co/
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2012, 07:17:57 PM »
I'd use a Barnes rather than a Partition, but I'm sure it would kill a bear just fine. Definitely not the caliber I would choose for bear, but if it's what I had when an opportunity at a bear came up, I'd use it (not in this state though, it's not legal).

But really, people hunt bears with archery gear, I think a 223 would be more effective than an arrow.
 

Apples and oranges Bobcat. The arrow kills by cutting, and more often than not leaves an ample blood trail. Bear are notorious for not leaving much of a blood trail when shot with a small cartridge such as the 223 Rem. For bear, in my opinion, The 223 Rem also is a bit in short supply of  penetration and energy .
 To the OP, in a hunting situation, absolutely not. In a survival scenario, absolutely yes.



Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34000
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2012, 07:21:48 PM »
Well, I would NEVER consider using a 223 for hunting bears. I was only saying that yes, it would kill a bear. But it's far from ideal.


Offline Wea300mag

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 5431
  • Location: Sedro Woolley
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2012, 07:22:16 PM »
Too small of a caliber for my liking. If you are hunting with a .223, you are asking for more "lost" bears, especially here on the Westside. My blood curdles when I have to crawl through the brush looking for a wounded bear.  :yike:

 :twocents:
Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes on the skyline

Offline billythekidrock

  • Varmint
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 13445
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2012, 07:42:38 PM »
I'd use a Barnes rather than a Partition, but I'm sure it would kill a bear just fine. Definitely not the caliber I would choose for bear, but if it's what I had when an opportunity at a bear came up, I'd use it (not in this state though, it's not legal).

But really, people hunt bears with archery gear, I think a 223 would be more effective than an arrow.
 

Apples and oranges Bobcat. The arrow kills by cutting, and more often than not leaves an ample blood trail. Bear are notorious for not leaving much of a blood trail when shot with a small cartridge such as the 223 Rem. For bear, in my opinion, The 223 Rem also is a bit in short supply of  penetration and energy .
 To the OP, in a hunting situation, absolutely not. In a survival scenario, absolutely yes.




I agree completely.
A bear, properly hit with a .223 will not leave as good of a blood trail as one properly hit with a broadhead.




Offline SemperFidelis97

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 2197
  • Location: Graham
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2012, 07:50:06 PM »
It's twin brother the 5.56 has killed plenty of people larger than most bears you will see on the westside not my preference, but still deadly.

Offline Biggerhammer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Powder, primer, bullet JUNKIE.
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2012, 08:08:48 PM »
It's twin brother the 5.56 has killed plenty of people larger than most bears you will see on the westside not my preference, but still deadly.

Exactly, no one ever said it was "Their" preferred cartridge cartridge. It is very well capable of getting the job done. Some like to dramatize it and take it out of text.
The true eye sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium. It's a demonstration of superior judgement.

Never mistake motion for action.

Yes.... I'm a hater!

A offer to all HuntWA members. If you don't have something nice to say. I'll say it for you.👍

Offline BOWHUNTER45

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 14705
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2012, 08:10:58 PM »
I think a .223 is a little light for bear hunting ...unless it is in a tree sitting above your head ...or you plan on shooting him below the ear , which can be easily done in the right hands  :dunno: :chuckle:

Offline NW-GSP

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 2710
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2012, 08:12:01 PM »

Offline Biggerhammer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4463
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Powder, primer, bullet JUNKIE.
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2012, 08:12:36 PM »
I think a .223 is a little light for bear hunting ...unless it is in a tree sitting above your head ...or you plan on shooting him below the ear , which can be easily done in the right hands  :dunno: :chuckle:

No way, behind the ear! You would have to take on line shooting classes from" Snipers Hide" to be capable of such a shot. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
The true eye sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium. It's a demonstration of superior judgement.

Never mistake motion for action.

Yes.... I'm a hater!

A offer to all HuntWA members. If you don't have something nice to say. I'll say it for you.👍

Offline BOWHUNTER45

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 14705
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2012, 08:18:22 PM »
 :chuckle:  :chuckle: Well I learned from this Old Marine ....My dad  :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Offline Rooster1981

  • R.K.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 683
  • Location: Mason County
    • Roosters Kennel
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2012, 09:02:28 PM »

I wonder about questions like this ? The idea of trying to find the smallest caliber of round for whatever the quarry is , "could" it kill the animal always puzzled me.  :dunno: If I aim at something and shoot  my projectile I have to know that the animal will go down and not suffer. jmo
Hunting hounds since 1993

Offline Kola16

  • <><
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 2923
  • Location: Arlington
  • One Nation, UNDER GOD!!!
    • https://www.facebook.com/robbie.v.bailey16
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2012, 09:09:52 PM »
Some guys go after wild boars with .22 cal. pellet guns  :dunno: Personally, I prefer a bigger caliber, but for those that like smaller calibers......it is just THEIR way and not mine  :twocents:
If guns kill people...then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy!"   -Billy Currington

Offline fisheral87

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 579
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
    • https://www.facebook.com/home.php
  • Groups: NRA, ILA, DU, WSCPA
Re: .223 for blackbear?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2012, 03:02:10 PM »
In any hunting situation I want a affordable system that will allow me sufficient mobility and at a level of quality such that I am able engage a animal sized target at a practical distance for my skill level (subjective). The projectile should have  characteristics that will ensure a high percentage of a one shot one kill outcome that maximizes the amount of meat harvested (multiple variables, ethics, my opinion).

Correct placement of a .22lr round could kill a black bear, however, the percentages with that cartridge are significantly lower.

Hunting with lower calibers to me is not like fishing with light tackle. It comes down to the individual and the risk they are willing to accept that their choices leading up to the shot will result in a clean harvest of the animal. This is where the ethics and the individuals responsibility to understand their own system and it's inherent capabilities and shortfalls come into play.

Giving other options I would not choose .223 as a primary cartridge for black bear.

If I had an AR in the woods and was charged by a black bear, I'd light it up like the 4th, because the lower percentages would be more acceptable.
"Luck is a dividend of sweat, the more you sweat the luckier you get." - Ray Kroc