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Author Topic: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.  (Read 3247 times)

Offline Smossy

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.177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« on: July 24, 2013, 07:02:53 PM »
Ok, Being as I dont really know anything about guns, is there anyone out there who knows a thing or two about air rifles or general guns and could do some modifications for me?
I just picked up an Old Cummings B2 or B3 rifle that weighs in around 7 pounds. Its all metal and wood construction and is really solid. Going to be a good practice gun for my girl to shoot so she can get used to holding the weight steady. Its an underlevel style. Payed $40 for it and thats alittle more then they go for new. No big deal, Ive read tons of reviews that say its a cheap gun thats built like a tank and has potential of a $200 air gun.


I read things like this:

B-3 #1, I left as it came in the box to use as a control group. It cronys @ 490 - 530 fps and shoots 1" groups at 10 yrds.

B-3 #2, I did a complete rebuild, chamber hone and polish, a QF-2 spring replacement and end polish, trigger hone, and a piston debur and polish. The leather seal was kept original however, I soaked it clean with solvent, then worked lanolin into the leather and lubed it with dry graphite. The spring, it's guides and trigger sear surfaces were lubed with moly paste. I found that the rear sight was welded crooked on to the receiver. It had to be removed and replaced from 16" to 26" on the receiver. It cronys in the low to mid 800 fps range and shoots a ragged 1/4" hole at 10 yrds.

B-3 #3, I did the same as #2, but used the synthetic seal that came with the QF-2 kit. I used dielectric silicone to lube the seal and compression cylinder. During break-in, it made a slide whistle sound upon cocking that made my fellow shooters guffaw with laughter untill the crony results showed an average of 725 fps which is still climbing as the rifle breaks in. It shoots groups at 3/8" at 10 yrds.


New upgraded springs, trigger hones, cleaning and polishing the insides? I have no idea how to do any of this and would rather just see if any of the family on here could help me out.  :dunno:
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Offline Smossy

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 07:25:11 PM »
No one?
One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 09:14:51 PM »
What are you wanting to do to it? 

Spring piston right?

Spring change and hone of spring/piston/cylinder seem to affect velocity (e.g., faster piston speeds = faster impulse of air behind the pellet).

Seals are pretty straightforward. If it leaks air, you will be losing velocity.  The seal that they seem to be talking about, at least on a brake barrel, is where the barrel breaks.  On an underlever, I am not so sure. Perhaps they are discussing a seal at the end of the piston that helps seal piston to the cylinder.

Trigger work, also straightforward, at least in a spring piston gun (essentially like a firearm in that you are merely affecting the pull).

With the exception of honing the cylinder, I would expect that most of these things could be done with a modest compliment of tools, including a set of punches.  You might need some sort of spring compressor for spring removal and replacement, IIRC from reading about spring gun maintenance.

You might google some Airgun articles by BB Pelletier or Tom Gaylord (same guy).  He is now writing for Pyramyd Air at the link below, but he had a pretty good blog before that, including many a restoration of spring guns. (I don't know if his old stuff was incorporated into the Pyramyd Air body of works.)

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

First thing is probably to track down a parts diagram to understand how it all comes apart.

Offline Smossy

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
What are you wanting to do to it? 

Spring piston right?

Spring change and hone of spring/piston/cylinder seem to affect velocity (e.g., faster piston speeds = faster impulse of air behind the pellet).

Seals are pretty straightforward. If it leaks air, you will be losing velocity.  The seal that they seem to be talking about, at least on a brake barrel, is where the barrel breaks.  On an underlever, I am not so sure. Perhaps they are discussing a seal at the end of the piston that helps seal piston to the cylinder.

Trigger work, also straightforward, at least in a spring piston gun (essentially like a firearm in that you are merely affecting the pull).

With the exception of honing the cylinder, I would expect that most of these things could be done with a modest compliment of tools, including a set of punches.  You might need some sort of spring compressor for spring removal and replacement, IIRC from reading about spring gun maintenance.

You might google some Airgun articles by BB Pelletier or Tom Gaylord (same guy).  He is now writing for Pyramyd Air at the link below, but he had a pretty good blog before that, including many a restoration of spring guns. (I don't know if his old stuff was incorporated into the Pyramyd Air body of works.)

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

First thing is probably to track down a parts diagram to understand how it all comes apart.

Exactly the kinda of information I was looking for, the seals seem like something I can do with almost no knowledge, alot of people are just saying replace it with a 1/2 inch sink faucet seal, or something of that nature. Can be removed without taking the gun apart with a flathead, the seal is on the top, It opens up on the top of the gun kind of like a real gun to where a slide opens up to load a new round i.e a pellet, and when it closes, the tube is pushed inside the seal and fully enclosed. The springs I know nothing about, Im literally as gun noob as it can get.
and yes, Id like to do something with a new spring, Alot of things online are saying that its rated out of the box to around 450-550 fps, after some basic TLC, upgraded spring, and some trigger maintenance it can reach up to almost 800fps, and be a very sturdy tank of a gun. This guns solid, like super solid. The only problem with parts is there was sooo many variations of this model/style of a gun that its hard to exactly pinpoint what model it is.
One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.

Offline earlmarne

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 09:33:18 PM »
If you want to hone the cylinder i can give you some pointers n send you the tool to get er  done.
Ive tuned a few air rifles with great results.i would think a maccari spring n seal kit would be your best bet.charliadatuna makes a great drop in trigger that may work also.
Let me know.i have no use for the thing anymore.you will most likely need to build a spring press also.lots of info on sites like GTA

Offline earlmarne

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 09:36:29 PM »
What are you wanting to do to it? 

Spring piston right?

Spring change and hone of spring/piston/cylinder seem to affect velocity (e.g., faster piston speeds = faster impulse of air behind the pellet).

Seals are pretty straightforward. If it leaks air, you will be losing velocity.  The seal that they seem to be talking about, at least on a brake barrel, is where the barrel breaks.  On an underlever, I am not so sure. Perhaps they are discussing a seal at the end of the piston that helps seal piston to the cylinder.

Trigger work, also straightforward, at least in a spring piston gun (essentially like a firearm in that you are merely affecting the pull).

With the exception of honing the cylinder, I would expect that most of these things could be done with a modest compliment of tools, including a set of punches.  You might need some sort of spring compressor for spring removal and replacement, IIRC from reading about spring gun maintenance.

You might google some Airgun articles by BB Pelletier or Tom Gaylord (same guy).  He is now writing for Pyramyd Air at the link below, but he had a pretty good blog before that, including many a restoration of spring guns. (I don't know if his old stuff was incorporated into the Pyramyd Air body of works.)

http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

First thing is probably to track down a parts diagram to understand how it all comes apart.

Exactly the kinda of information I was looking for, the seals seem like something I can do with almost no knowledge, alot of people are just saying replace it with a 1/2 inch sink faucet seal, or something of that nature. Can be removed without taking the gun apart with a flathead, the seal is on the top, It opens up on the top of the gun kind of like a real gun to where a slide opens up to load a new round i.e a pellet, and when it closes, the tube is pushed inside the seal and fully enclosed. The springs I know nothing about, Im literally as gun noob as it can get.
and yes, Id like to do something with a new spring, Alot of things online are saying that its rated out of the box to around 450-550 fps, after some basic TLC, upgraded spring, and some trigger maintenance it can reach up to almost 800fps, and be a very sturdy tank of a gun. This guns solid, like super solid. The only problem with parts is there was sooo many variations of this model/style of a gun that its hard to exactly pinpoint what model it is.
Your breach seal is a very easy swap.i actually have a ton of different sizes of those also

Offline Smossy

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 09:44:13 PM »
If you want to hone the cylinder i can give you some pointers n send you the tool to get er  done.
Ive tuned a few air rifles with great results.i would think a maccari spring n seal kit would be your best bet.charliadatuna makes a great drop in trigger that may work also.
Let me know.i have no use for the thing anymore.you will most likely need to build a spring press also.lots of info on sites like GTA
Hmm, what kind of tool? and how do you hone a cylinder, what exactly does that mean?
One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.

Offline earlmarne

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 09:52:06 PM »
I believe it is a brake hone.
I have the course stones for it.you want the inner surface of you compression chamber to have some scuffing so as to hold a light layer of moly grease and give consistant and constant seal.
It will require you removing the spring.
Ive never dealt with this rifle so i couldnt tell you exactly how it comes out.on a break barrel you have a breach block and linkage.i would assume yours is pretty well the same.

Offline Smossy

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 09:58:11 PM »
I believe it is a brake hone.
I have the course stones for it.you want the inner surface of you compression chamber to have some scuffing so as to hold a light layer of moly grease and give consistant and constant seal.
It will require you removing the spring.
Ive never dealt with this rifle so i couldnt tell you exactly how it comes out.on a break barrel you have a breach block and linkage.i would assume yours is pretty well the same.

Its pretty similar to a break barrel, Its just an underlever. The barrel is solid.
Makes sense though about the scuffing. I havent attempted to take it apart yet because really Its kind of intimidating. :dunno:
One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.

Offline earlmarne

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 10:10:06 PM »
Def do some research before breaking into it.that spring carries alot of energy.
With a little work you can smoot those spring guns out n make em shooters.
They are very straight forward.i built a few n held on to an old trusty beman 22.
Sometimes those chinese rifles will take real well to a barrel and crown polish.
I moved to pcp air rifles before i picked up archery.but always loved the simplicity of a spring gun.problem is if you want sub moa it is a lot harder to pull out of a spring gun than a pcp.but they get the job done n ive put many a squirrel in the freezer with my beman.
If you decide you want to tear into that thing.ill send you what i have.just cover shipping.
Till they let me hunt big game with an air rifle in this state i will be sticking to my archery gear so you are welcome to what i have

Offline Smossy

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 11:15:39 PM »
Def do some research before breaking into it.that spring carries alot of energy.
With a little work you can smoot those spring guns out n make em shooters.
They are very straight forward.i built a few n held on to an old trusty beman 22.
Sometimes those chinese rifles will take real well to a barrel and crown polish.
I moved to pcp air rifles before i picked up archery.but always loved the simplicity of a spring gun.problem is if you want sub moa it is a lot harder to pull out of a spring gun than a pcp.but they get the job done n ive put many a squirrel in the freezer with my beman.
If you decide you want to tear into that thing.ill send you what i have.just cover shipping.
Till they let me hunt big game with an air rifle in this state i will be sticking to my archery gear so you are welcome to what i have
lol Sounds like me. I cant touch a firearm, If they ever legalized Air rifle hunting for big game. Id go for the Benjamin Rogue .357
What If I shot you some money for fix'n this ol girl up for me? Id rather have someone who actually knows what they're doing.
One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.

Offline earlmarne

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Re: .177 Gun Tuning for Small Game.
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 11:39:05 AM »
I wouldnt feel comfortable tearin into your rifle.
There is a guy that tunes em on Gta.
Ive just never messed with underlever guns n wouldnt want my first onÍ to be someone elses

 

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