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Author Topic: Calling info?  (Read 4852 times)

Offline Stape

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Calling info?
« on: August 22, 2007, 06:59:44 PM »
   I have used electronic calls in the past and wanted to give mouth-blown calls a shot, so I picked up a circle Ki-Yoter call, and when I got home and tried it, I noticed that I really gotta wail on the thing to get a howl sound, if not, it sounds like a bad raspy duck call my kids play with.  The directions say to take a deep breath and easily let your lungs exhale creating a howl, but it seems I gotta really blow on it with some force.  Did I get a cheap call?  Just seems from seeing others blow on calls that it doesn't require this much effort.  I mean, this thing will wake the dead, or is that what I should go for?

Offline Stape

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 07:33:16 PM »
Thanks for the scoop.  I'll give it a shot.   I have been practicing on it, and I can get a good toned howl out of it, but when you cut it off, or end the call, theres that raspy trail-off, not like my breath has an on/off switch to cleanly "end" the call, but perhaps and more importantly, practice is in order.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 08:04:17 PM »
Stape,

I wouldn't do any bending of the reed like with other calls.

Each caller is different, and so is each call.

Some like your Circé Ki-Yoter, are what are known as "hard drivers".
It takes a good strong lung to drive them.

Usually I give this advice, when trying to teach someone to howl;

First learn to bark, with a sharp "HUT" from your diaphragm.
Then draw that out... "HUuuuuut".
At first you'll want to add a couple short barks at the beginning, but this is an aggressive howl.

It's a natural tendency, to bark "Hut hut", to get your pitch correct then break into song.
But you'll use your howling more effectively if you can learn not to do that.

Howlin' is an art form, lots of guys do it, few are really good at it.
That doesn't really matter to coyotes.

Get out and sing song back and forth with them, it's good practice, and a good way to see one.

Personally I don't make, or use (very often) a howler

Krusty
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 08:35:03 PM by Krusty »
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Offline tlbradford

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 08:31:17 PM »
Follow Krusty's advice on the barking.  That is a good description of how to get the right pitch for a howl.  These are a couple of guesses on what you may be doing wrong, but it is kind of hard to diagnose without seeing.

1) You could be putting too much of the call into your mouth.  Try biting closer to the tip. 
2) You may be forcing too much air through the call.  A lot of production calls aren't tuned properly and will have a pitch break when you blow to hard or too soft.  That howl will carry a long ways, without blowing as hard as you can to try to make it louder.  Start with a smaller amount of air.
3) Having a steady release of air from your gut will help with the howl to get a consistent pitch.  "Steady" being the key word.  When you start adding a little quaver to the howl, just wiggle the call between your teeth a little bit without changing your air flow.
4) When ending the howl close your air off before you run out of breath.  If you are releasing air from your gut then it is easier to have that "on/off switch".  When you are not forcing enough air through the call you will get a funny noise at the end.

Good luck.  Invest in some ear plugs and practice during your commute.  Remember with howling that less is usually more.
Dreams are forever on the mind, realization in the hands.

Offline Stape

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 09:15:29 PM »
   Thanks for all the replies.  I am getting the idea that the howl call is not the preffered or most common call for yotes.  So what is?  I also got a rabbit distress call, but have not yet tried it.  My varmint hunting experience is maybe 10 years, but mostly spot-lighting heavily occupied areas, you never had to call them, and when we did, it was electronic, so really new to this aspect and I greatly appreciate all of you guys input.  Is there a good....not great, not bad, general call for all ocassions?   I think that might be a silly question, like what rifle is good...lots of variables out there huh?   I am good at calilng waterfowl, and in that experience, common sense, and usually less calling is better for the birds, and perhaps the same rings true for yotes too?

Offline bearmanric

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 09:15:56 PM »
get one of Randy anderson's video's. he doe's a lot of Howling and calling. i make some easy playing elk horn open reed's that sound great and easy to learn. learn pup distress work's great now. Rick
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Offline bearmanric

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 09:21:11 PM »
here are a few of my open reed's. very easy to use. will young coyote howl, pup indistress cow elk talk and great distress. Rick


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Offline ICEMAN

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 09:57:31 PM »
Just curious, what flavor are these? Everytime I saw a bone or antler, smells real bad, sort of like old gym socks... :puke:
molṑn labé

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Offline bearmanric

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2007, 10:04:56 PM »
 I sell over 300 a year .i geuss there not to bad. Rick
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2007, 05:48:36 PM »
Stape,

Distress sounds are the ones most commonly used for calling predators.

Howling is a social behavior, and many of the vocalizations are meant to run off the competition.
You don't want to do that, do you? ;)

Howling is also somewhat a "local thing", you gotta know the local dialect to some degree.
In some parts of Washington, coyotes are very closed lipped.
Where others are very vocal, with howling and barking extremely common.
Howling might scare one off, and make the other come in lookin' for a fight.

If using your e-caller was productive, you'll want to mimic the way called with it, and if you can, even the sounds it made.

There are as many good all around calls, as there are good rifles.

Every caller likes a different call, and some guys love the ones other guys hate.

Take Rick, he's a big fat blowhard... that's not a personal insult, just the best way to describe his style.
He's a big dude, with a large lung capacity, and he really puts his diaphragm into it.

He'd like your Ki-Yoter, or the CritR Call Magnum, or the mouthpiece he used on some of his calls, made by a guy who made the Loudmouth electronic caller.

Me, I'm a wheezy little whiner, again not a personal assessment (other than my size)... it's my calling style, I "call small" a lot, sounding weak and near death is more important to me than sheer volume.

I like a call that takes very little air, and I don't wail from deep in my belly.
I like the CritR Call Standard, the Cartlon's Lonesome Cow elk call (making distress sounds of other animals, with it), one of Rick's calls with the mouthpiece Yellerdude makes, or one of my one piece wooden calls with a thin double-stacked reedset.

Calling waterfowl is very similar, yet very different at the same time.

You're somewhat right, in the "less is more" line of thinking.
You don't call when a coyote is looking your way, like you don't call birds when they are coming at you.
Generally, by the time you see the coyote, he already knows where you are, he's pinpointed the location of the sound with his ears.
Sometimes you might want to switch to a "kissy" sound, like you'd call your dog with, if it hangs up once in sight, and doesn't present a shot.

You'll want to call either continuously, or in intermittent series of calling and spaces of silence. And call 'til something comes, or you call the stand "finished" and move on.
This is a matter of personal preference, and lung power, new guys get dizzy.

Targeting coyotes, many callers quit at ten minutes or so, with cats it might go an hour, and with bears even longer than that.

On my best day, I cranked on a handcall for an hour and forty minutes.

Maybe you ought to step back a notch, and get yourself an enclosed reed call?
Much easier to use, and to learn to "be a musican".
Then you can apply those skills to your Ki-Yoter.

You gotta walk before you can run. ;)

Iceman,

Working with antler with a high tool speed, will make it stink alright.

Most antler calls (and high quality wooden calls) are sealed inside and out, to lock in that stink.
But I can't speak for Rick.

Krusty
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Offline Stape

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2007, 07:34:05 PM »
   I really appeciate the advice.  Think I might just stick with a distress call and something soft like a squeeker.  Hopefully my marksmanship can overcome my calling handicap.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2007, 09:10:33 PM »
Stape,

A squeaker isn't going to reach out far enough.
The noise you make getting in and out of your spot will probably carry just as far.

Squeakers are used to "work" a coyote, just like the kissy sound is. You were born with a "coaxer", you need a distress call.

Haydell's Govt. Rabbit is an excellent starter call, with both, a distress voice, and a coaxer voice.

Krusty
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Offline bearmanric

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2007, 04:54:58 PM »
you can Howl. i would if i'm after coyote's only howl once  no fancy stuff. i called a coyote in windy condition'slast night with lip squeak's. then i had a nice bear come into a bear cub indistress. yes i missed. the call in the left corner and it kick's butt. it has a special squeaker  that is what you are looking for. good luck .Rick               
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Offline rainshadow1

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2007, 11:35:27 AM »
PM Sent, Stape.

That call doesn't look easy to use, frankly. I looked up a pic. Don't get discouraged, I think it's easier than you're experiencing with that unit. Rick's calls, with the yellerdogs or the Reece's would be child's play compared to that Circe.
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Offline Stape

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2007, 03:35:53 PM »
I appreciate all the help.  It's frustrating, I am out there, and I can clearly hear a coyote out there howling, from my spot to the river bottom, wasn't more than 300 yards or so, sounded like he was right in front of me, but no clear line of sight, but couldn't get him in before it got too dark to see, and no spotlight.  Guess I need to get out there some more.  Generally, what time is best?   I hear them active as all heck at night, but do they respond well during daylight?

Offline jackelope

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2007, 04:42:22 PM »
for whatever it's worth i can vouch for the fact that rick's calls don't stink or taste bad. they sound great, but no stink for sure.
:fire.:

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Offline Krusty

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2007, 04:48:46 PM »
Stape,

I completely understand how frustrating it can be.

It's a good thing you haven't been spotlighting, night hunting doesn't open until midnight tonight.

If you get one howling in front of you, you have a few plans of action.

Mimic the coyote, give him back what he gives you.

Go straight into "aggressive" threat barks and howls, trying to antagonize him into fighting.

Do some pup whines, the response might be one of aggression or of protection.

Go after it. Crawl, get into a deep draw, or even do "the ugly cow" (cover yourself with a camo net, stay low, and walk in), if you have a partner one stays and talks smack and the other goes on assault.

BUT often times, especially during the daytime, if a coyote is vocal, it could be that he busted you.

There is no hard and fast "best time". But for myself, between 2:00 and 3:00 in the afternoon stands out... but I'm not a morning person.
Most coyotes, in most places they are hunted, are called in the daylight.

Krusty
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Offline ICEMAN

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2007, 04:58:02 PM »
Hey, looking back at my comment about the call, I am the jerk! Sorry! Didn't mean to talk smack...

Creating something like this, or anything, is art work. When you have the guts to create anything for others to look at, you are the brave one and we all benefit. It does take guts to stick our neck out and display what we have created for all to look at, and touch, and criticize. I had a construction business for ten years, and was always worried about my image. Had a roofer pee on a rooftop once, in a fancy neighborhood. I very nearly threw him off the roof. I know I scared the living *censored* out of him. I also retained $500 of his paycheck, sort of a little reminder of how we do not risk jeapordizing someone elses reputation regarding a project. My name on the work, not his. He pees on my job, and I am going to kick his ass.

So, sorry about the lousy not so funny comment!
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Offline tlbradford

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Re: Calling info?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2007, 08:34:33 AM »
They will come in at anytime during the day.  Did you howl at him and it responded?  Did you do distress and have it respond with a howl?  Did you hear one coyote howl or multiples?  Did you have to expose yourself to get into calling position?  Was the coyote downwind, crosswind, or upwind?  Were you skylined, camoflauged, sitting in the sun or the shade? 

There are countless reasons why it may have not responded.  The more info we have the better we can help. 
Dreams are forever on the mind, realization in the hands.

 

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