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Author Topic: Crossbows  (Read 16677 times)

Offline h20hunter

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2014, 01:00:50 PM »
Rover.....not sure where you are located by we are having (I'll bump the thread) a bbq at the end of July. Not to speak for everyone but I'd sure love to share a pint and hear some of your tales.
Yes, my FJ is pink, I'm all about Team Jacob, beer is not for the horses nor is whiskey for the men, they are both for me.

Offline SquirrelHunter

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2014, 01:23:52 PM »
Rover758
I dont know if you have already paid to have your crossbow retrofitted with a pin set-up, if not I can show you how I did mine for $60 bucks ($50 for the sight, $10 for the mount) and no warranties voided. The best part is I can upgrade my sights as new ones come out if deemed necessary Works great to
If your interested send me a PM
"Incoming bullets have the right away"

Offline rover758

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2014, 09:27:21 PM »
Thanks SquirrlHunter.  I may take you up on that.  First things first ... I gotta get the permit.  I see my doctor this Friday and will give him what the WDFW ADA person sent me.  I do know he's not going to be too pleased at being questioned.  I don't even have a crossbow yet.  I have the web site on my work computer that sells the sights for $200ish.  It was the only one I found.  I'll send you the link tomorrow so you can check them out.  I think they only make them for four brands of crossbows and the one I was wanting wasn't on the list.  I may want to chat with you about your brand of choice and why. 

h20hunter wants to share a pint and hear my lies?  LOL ... let me tell you about the Red Deer in northern Spain .... no, a better one is the black bear in Brooks Range in Alaska when I was going to draw and heard a low growl behind me and I turned to see a big she-wolf glaring at me .... no ... that won't do ... it has to be that time down in Honduras.........
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Offline Mxracer532

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2014, 10:23:11 AM »
Normally I wouldn't comment but with my dad no longer able to draw a bow after multiple surgeries and him being an avid bow hunter since the early 70's and it being his true passion and hearing all you guys saying sure he can use his xbow in modern season is a Freakin joke! Why do most guys quit modern? Probably cause there is a million people and have retards looking at them through their scopes, bullets wizzing over their heads ect. If anyone catagorises a freakin crossbow even close to the same category as modern your just being selfish and arrogant.  Xbow so (maybe shoot 100yrds) modern fire arm (now days 1000yrds with todays equipment isnt out of the ? )besides that 98% o the guys who get a xbow  were avid archery guys like my old man. Put yourself in those guys shoes and really think about it. For any of you to say my old man can no longer hunt with his kids/grand kids because he cant draw a compound anymore is *censored*!  By the way he once shot right handed, had shoulder surgery and couldnt continue right handed so switched to left handed now a few surgeries later cant left left handed either so its not from the lack of effort.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 09:21:39 PM by Mxracer532 »
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Offline brianb231

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2014, 08:46:09 PM »
I felt like throwing my two cents in the ring as well since I have experience with the topic. My father got our hunting group (younger generation) involved in bowhunting 25 years ago. He created a passion for Archery hunting that spread like wildfire through our group. In 2007 he had serious heart conditions and breathing issues but he still had the passion to archery hunt. He could still get out there and we could set him up a little ways off the road and he still had a chance at getting an Elk. But his Dr was not so quick like some to write the letter so he was only approved for adaptive equipment. This meant a very poorly designed thing called a draw lock. We installed that on his bow ( I think it was the only one in Washington State. LOL) and it kept his bow at full draw for him. I felt this was very unsafe and quirky at best. In 2008 he was finally approved for a Crossbow. BUT A SCOPE WAS NOT LEGAL. This was an incredibly stupid rule. We first had to find pin sights which was a chore and then to use them was very inaccurate as now any movement on the cheekwell of the stock created an inaccurate shot. Why would the state give someone a disable permit and then not allow them that complete system to make an ethical shot. Why does someone have to be near death with an opportunity to harvest there last animal and then the state says , BUt you cannot use a scope???? Every rifle hunter in the state uses a scope in perfect health. Anyways, he passed away in 2009 just after he could no longer hunt. I think not being able to be out there with us had a little to do with that.

NOW... His partner, who is my best friends Uncle is in his 70's and he finally after 16 years of applying gets drawn for a peaches ridge archery tag!!! So he is excited, but he is also a disabled hunter now as well. He cannot travel far or down in any steep and deep either or even really draw the bow, but his passion to be out there with the group he and my Dad raised in the woods is still there. We are going to do everything in our power to make this happen for him and the use of a crossbow gives him a chance to do just that.

I get it... there are a lot of people that abuse the disabled rules but there are also a group that are still alive with that hunting drive because of it.

So lets not be quick to throw stones at the crossbow and disabled rules because there are those that abuse it. That is all I ask.

Good luck to everyone this season.

Brianb231

Offline lokidog

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2014, 10:51:00 PM »
Normally I wouldn't comment but with my dad no longer able to draw a bow after multiple surgeries and him being an avid bow hunter since the early 70's and it being his true passion and hearing all you guys saying sure he can use his xbow in modern season is a F'n joke! Why do most guys quit modern? Probably cause there is a million people and have *censored*s looking at them through their scopes, bullets wizzing over their heads ect. If anyone catagorises a freakin crossbow even close to the same category as modern your just being selfish and arrogant.  Xbow so (maybe shoot 100yrds) modern fire arm (now days 1000yrds with todays equipment isnt out of the ? )besides that 98% o the guys who get a xbow  were avid archery guys like my old man. Put yourself in those guys shoes and really think about it. For any of you to say my old man can no longer hunt with his kids/grand kids because he cant draw a compound anymore is *censored*!  By the way he once shot right handed, had shoulder surgery and couldnt continue right handed so switched to left handed now a few surgeries later cant left left handed either so its not from the lack of effort.

MX, I think you need to step back a minute and maybe reread the posts here.  I don't think a single person that has posted (Oops, guess I'll say most don't) feels that a truly disabled archer should not be able to use a crossbow during archery season.   :dunno:  Many, including myself, believe they should be allowed during modern season for anyone, disabled or not as well.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 11:12:18 PM by lokidog »

Offline bowhunterwa87

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2014, 11:02:53 PM »
I think they should be legal during modern and for predator hunting to all.

Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2014, 11:04:40 PM »
What about old and cant draw/hold back and see very well ????  I think xbows are fine during modern season, same as modern muzzle loaders.....either can have a scope during modern.

We cant do everything for everyone........I have a neighbor who hunts elk with an xbow, and deer with a 300win mag.........sound right to you ?????

There comes a time when the body wont function as we like, and it should be accepted........not compensated for with rules and regulations.  WHen I can no longer draw and hold, I am done.....if I cant see my pins, I am done.....if I can no longer see through a rifle scope and rest that rifle on something to shoot, I am done.............unless ofcourse you guys want to accomodate me with rules and regulations that address old and tired and cant see..............

I think you bring up good points no matter what the weapon of choice is.
If you see hunter recruitment as a important part of hunting. Some allowances must be made for the old and failing vision. There are many old hunters who do not go simply because they cannot see the pins well enough or open sites on a muzzel loader.
I think a red dot should be allowed on muzzys if the eye doctor indicartes poor vision. I see no problem with a red dot on a bow of any kind for the older folks.  :twocents:
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Offline Todd_ID

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2014, 11:42:28 PM »
Here's a "from the horse's mouth" account of how the permits work now.  I wrote this for the last WSB magazine issue with the help of Delores Noyes, WDFW ADA Coordinator.

I have received several calls about the utilization of
crossbows during archery season by hunters with
disabilities issued a Crossbow Special Use Permit.
Questions stem from the omission of language in the
regulations regarding crossbows, and others from
reports allowing sighting devices back on the crossbow.
To make certain I was answering these questions
correctly, I contacted the WDFW ADA Program
Manager for a run-down on current regulation status.
The short version is YES, crossbows are still permitted
to those hunters with upper extremity impairments
issued a Special Use Permit, and factory installed
sighting devices are now being allowed to remain on
the crossbow. Language requiring hunters to modify
their newly purchased crossbows by removing factory
installed scopes or red dot sights were eliminated.
The ADA Program is currently updating the Special Use
Permit (SUP) application process to reflect these new
regulations. Abbreviated information about obtaining
WDFW Disability Status can be found on page 92 of the Big
Game Hunting Season and Regulations booklet or online at:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/ The new ADA Program
RCW and WAC regulations can be found online at: http://
wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/rcw_wacs.html
Hunters having a permanent non-operable physical
impairment rendering them unable to safely draw, hold,
or operate a traditional archery device may be granted
a Special Use Permit (SUP) to use a crossbow. Each SUP
is customized to that individual’s needs. I was given
an example to show how they are attempting to apply
common sense to the permits: for instance, a hunter
with a physical muscular impairment who is incapable
of making a 40 pound draw on a traditional recurve
bow might be accommodated with a crossbow having a
cocking-assist device or C02 assist.
Each SUP issued to a hunter with a disability will state
these restrictions or limitations out clearly to assist
enforcement officers in making sure that the person
they just made contact with in the field who has a
crossbow is definitely allowed to hunt with one and
is following the restrictions of their SUP permit. The
goal of the program is to make certain those hunters
who need the permits are able to get what they require
to be able to continue hunting as well as to make sure
that the applicant for the permit actually needs the
accommodation.
My hope is that these changes to the ADA Program will
help weed out those with permits who probably should
not have been given them in the past; this would go a
long way toward bettering the image of bow hunting
in the public’s eye. Nobody should be denied the right
to bow hunt because of a disability, and, conversely, I
don’t want to see people in the field who have taken
advantage of the system through misrepresentation of
a permanent non-operative disability. That is a crime
punishable under RCW 77.15.650(1)(a) and WDFW
now has the tools in place to prosecute. I think WDFW
is taking steps in the right direction by designing a
program which looks at all ADA accommodations on
a case-by-case basis instead of trying to use a cookie
cutter approach.
If you need assistance with your hunting activity, give
Dolores Noyés, ADA Program Manager a call at 360-
902-2349. She is a wealth of information. You can also
go online and read about the Program by logging onto:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/
Bring a GPS!  It's awkward to have to eat your buddies!

Offline RadSav

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2014, 12:55:04 AM »
Good information Todd.  It does concern me about the phrasing in "factory installed sighting devise".  Not sure why someone who can not afford a top of the line crossbow and accessories can not get assistance from others to upgrade the sighting devise that higher end products use.  The verbiage seems to lead in the direction of that scenario being a problem.

I still do not understand why crossbows can not be used during modern firearm season unless they are in a firearm restriction area.  And that within those restricted areas you can use a shotgun with a scope, a front loader with a scope, but not a crossbow with a scope!  My personal belief is that anyone carrying a modern firearm license/tag should be able to use a scoped crossbow if they so choose anywhere hunting in that season is legal.

Similarly, I believe anyone with a muzzleloader license/tag should be allowed to use a crossbow in any area where muzzleloader is allowed as long as the same sight limitations are observed.  And of course that hunter does not ignite it with a 209 primer! ;)

I do not and probably will not support crossbows during archery season for each and every Joe Blow who wants to.  However, as stated earlier, if a person is legitimately handicapped I see no problem with allowing it.  The gesture far outweighs any animal impact concerns - if any actually existed.  The number of truly disabled hunters that wish to compete in archery seasons is just not significant enough to firmly stand against it.  WDFW has enough image problems without being viewed as lacking empathy towards a very small minority who legitimately struggle with a physical disability.
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Offline rover758

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2014, 07:28:22 AM »
Lot of good reading here.  brainb231 I'd like to shake your dad's hand.  I must be getting old because I am what your dad is ... my dad didn't hunt but I introduced my son to hunting as soon as he could walk a mile.  Okay ... I KNOW I'm old because his son, my grandson, can't wait to hunt with his grandpa.  Another generation of hunters come and reading many posts on this site I think that generation is in good hands.  I did get my permit and wasn't a bit disappointed it was only good for four years and I got my crossbow (Excalibur Matrix 380 with factor scope) a couple weeks ago.  Spent $40 on a rope cocking device only to find out ... I can't cock it.  $140 for a hand crank that I can use my with my left arm.  I think the state did a good thing by requiring hunters to revalidate every four years to keep the permit.  I actually hope to be back to my compound by then.  Maybe I'm being too optimistic.  When I mentioned it to my doc a couple weeks ago I got a lecture about the permanency of my condition and having to take care I didn't undo what he has now had to operate twice on.  I JUST GOTTA GET OUT THERE INTO THE WOODS!  Hey Sundance ... anyone who helps me pack an animal out gets a hind quarter.  It would have to be at least two brews before I start letting go of backstrap though.  LOL.  What is it all about?  It's pretty simple ... scouting 4th of July weekend I saw one elk here, two elk there, three elk in another place and then I found the main herd that hadn't broken up yet.  I watched 50 head stream by and that was only the outside line of elk.  They were 3 and 4 and 5 deep.  Wow!  What a sight.  The season is right around the corner.  Good luck out there.  Wherever you stand on this issue ... keep the passion and git ur tail off the cooler and hand me another beer.
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Offline birddogdad

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2014, 08:19:30 AM »
crossbows should be allowed for those who truely qualify. (i.e. lack of human limbs), however gaining any advantage such as scopes should not be*, unless you cant see pins. Getting old is not a qualifier, we all slow at some point.

*sight restrictions have already been addressed in the rulebook, although (IMO) i feel that the rule lends itself for hunters who cant see that well with pins/open sights to be forced into taking unethical chances (the rule is very specifically restrictive with vision specifications) but that is another leg of this topic with scopes.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2014, 04:22:57 PM »
This topic has come up lately.  Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows.  WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".

 I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?

 To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
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Offline Todd_ID

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2014, 05:04:14 PM »
This topic has come up lately.  Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows.  WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".

 I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?

 To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
The point of the scope is this: try to buy a fixed pin crossbow; there is no market for them, so they aren't available, even here where they were the only legal option.  Yes, there are retrofit kits one can buy for certain models of crossbows, but they were in the $250 range, and you had to have a certain brand of crossbow to use one.  Almost every crossbow sold comes with a red dot style sight, so we agreed to the change to allow the non-magnifying versions to be legal.
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Offline emac

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2014, 05:19:50 PM »
Tag

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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2014, 05:25:09 PM »
This topic has come up lately.  Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows.  WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".

 I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?

 To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
The point of the scope is this: try to buy a fixed pin crossbow; there is no market for them, so they aren't available, even here where they were the only legal option.  Yes, there are retrofit kits one can buy for certain models of crossbows, but they were in the $250 range, and you had to have a certain brand of crossbow to use one.  Almost every crossbow sold comes with a red dot style sight, so we agreed to the change to allow the non-magnifying versions to be legal.

 Thanks Todd, I figured it had to be some form of "sight" without magnification but was not aware crossbows did not come with some sort of fixed open sight.
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Offline stuckalot

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2014, 10:21:50 PM »
Getting old is not a qualifier, we all slow at some point.


Why the hell not? Why shouldn't accommodations be made that allow a few more years in the field sharing our heritage with our parents, kids and grand kids? Are we so self-centered in our pursuit of game, special draw permits and an extra day in our season that we forsake the bonds among family and friends at the core of our hunting experiences?

Maybe I'm just wierd but watching my 23 year old son plan his daily hunt around making sure his grandpa is situated in his blind every morning and that he can meet up with him on his way out of the woods at night, means more to me than any set of horns on the wall ever will. And that's made possible because of a crossbow permit.

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Offline 3dsheetmetal

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2014, 10:53:34 PM »
Getting old is not a qualifier, we all slow at some point.


Why the hell not? Why shouldn't accommodations be made that allow a few more years in the field sharing our heritage with our parents, kids and grand kids? Are we so self-centered in our pursuit of game, special draw permits and an extra day in our season that we forsake the bonds among family and friends at the core of our hunting experiences?

Maybe I'm just wierd but watching my 23 year old son plan his daily hunt around making sure his grandpa is situated in his blind every morning and that he can meet up with him on his way out of the woods at night, means more to me than any set of horns on the wall ever will. And that's made possible because of a crossbow permit.


Good for you stuckalot get out there and enjoy hunting and let all these other cry babies do  all there whining and sniffling because i'm a bowhunter with my rangefinder ,mechancial release,carbon arrows ,a bow that shoots 325 ft. per second,and the best bino's money can buy, but don't forget you should hunt during rifle season cause you might infringe on their season. Good luck hunting and have fun !!!!!!
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Offline b0w_bender

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2014, 09:54:58 AM »
What I'm curious about is why the cross bow is relegated to only the handicapped. What is it about a cross bow that makes it such a pariah in the hunting community. Sure I understand that Archers think it is an abomination and not really archery equipment. I completely agree with that sentiment but since I can shoot a regular bow during muzzle loader or  modern firearms season why the hell can't I as an able bodied citizen shoot a cross bow during muzzle or modern? It's a more primitive weapon so why can't I use it? Frankly the Prohibition on Crossbows is just plain silly.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2014, 03:40:02 PM »
I will echo many statements here.
Crossbows should be legal in any open area for Muzzy or Rifle, but not archery. The disabled permitt needs better definitions and guidelines.

I archery hunt because i have acces to places that are concerned that they will have to deal with neighbors over the sound of a muzzy or rifle. There are LOTS of deer around homes and making crossbows legal during muzzy and modern fine with me.
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Offline csaaphill

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 04:05:58 PM »
What with the antis banning lead and more and more bow or other such things being the only viable form of hunting then ya I hope they pass it where scopes could be used and if magnafied so beit.
Before some jump me I see this as what will most certainly become the only way to hunt so ya let em hunt.
You still have to be within 100yds or so so ya.
before you say tinfoil hat all one has to do is look at all the lead bans trying to be implamented and animal rights bringing in wolves and not letting us hunt then coyotes on other states overpopulating their carrying capacity and not allowed to hunt or not allowed to depredidate as they should ya I see this comeing sooner rather than later.
And what with us being our own worst enemy ya!
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Offline BABackcountryBwhntr

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2014, 04:42:27 PM »
I have read the regs numerous times.. during modern you absolutely can use a xbow. In any unit. As far as xbows during archery, I'm good with it for disabled people who really are disabled.  The toughest part of bow hunting to me is learning when and how to draw. . Then holding for minutes at a time waiting on the shot. The x bow takes that out of the picture.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2014, 04:55:18 PM »
Crossbows can only be used in firearm restriction areas during modern firearm season.

See pages 78, 79, and 83.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2014, 05:46:47 PM »
I have read the regs numerous times.. during modern you absolutely can use a xbow. In any unit. As far as xbows during archery, I'm good with it for disabled people who really are disabled.  The toughest part of bow hunting to me is learning when and how to draw. . Then holding for minutes at a time waiting on the shot. The x bow takes that out of the picture.
Only in firearm restricted areas during a modern season, or by hunters with specific disabilities.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/101/What+are+the+rules+for+firearm+restriction+areas%2C+and+can+crossbows+now+be+used%3F
"It is unlawful to hunt wildlife with a crossbow except by modern firearm tag holders in firearm restriction areas. However, disabled hunter permittees in possession of a crossbow special-use permit may hunt with a crossbow in any season that allows archery equipment."
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Re: Crossbows
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2014, 05:47:09 PM »
I have read the regs numerous times.. during modern you absolutely can use a xbow. In any unit. As far as xbows during archery, I'm good with it for disabled people who really are disabled.  The toughest part of bow hunting to me is learning when and how to draw. . Then holding for minutes at a time waiting on the shot. The x bow takes that out of the picture.


 :dunno: read again I guess
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

 

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