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Author Topic: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”  (Read 101846 times)

Offline JLS

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2014, 07:33:33 PM »
Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2014, 07:41:08 PM »
Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.

It's clear that you do: First off you pretend that you don't care when as we have all seen you do, and second you don't even know me, but yet you comment on my IQ. So where do you go from their?

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2014, 07:45:31 PM »
I lease a ranch in Utah that has been part of a sage grouse study for about 5 years. The ranch owners invited the University and UDWR to do the study and we quit hunting sage grouse while they study them.

Yep, it obvious ranchers and hunters hate sage grouse and only are concerned about the bottom line.  :rolleyes:

I would have no problem with the ESA if it was used to bring back species which are in danger rather than a tool for enviro groups to stop activities they don't endorse.

When predator birds were controlled, other birds such as the sage grouse etc. were plentiful> With ESA and protecting predators it has reversed everything> If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2014, 07:51:09 PM »
My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

Yes, your post triggered a secret alarm in the nuthouse and several of us were deployed immediately to go into damage control so that we could prevent you from exposing all of our lies.  Alas, we have failed and will probably be called back to the mothership any hour now.

That, or some independent folks have different perspectives on a controversial topic posted to an internet forum...lets go with your theory though...sometimes reality is boring.  :tup:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2014, 07:53:40 PM »
If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!
Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.   :bash:  :bash:

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2014, 07:55:15 PM »
My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

Yes, your post triggered a secret alarm in the nuthouse and several of us were deployed immediately to go into damage control so that we could prevent you from exposing all of our lies.  Alas, we have failed and will probably be called back to the mothership any hour now.

That, or some independent folks have different perspectives on a controversial topic posted to an internet forum...lets go with your theory though...sometimes reality is boring.  :tup:

I'm surprised you wasted so much time with your blabber, I bet you are proud of your self, hope you didn't burn a finger.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 08:00:37 PM »
If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!
Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.   :bash:  :bash:

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.

I'm sure you do!

Offline luvtohnt

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 08:30:16 PM »
I believe there has been a recent change in legislation. The government got smart and saw that the lawsuits were draining all the funding mechanisms, further reducing the amount of work that could be done. The legislation states that any party that is going to sue the federal government must show that they have the funds to finance the lawsuit if they loose. Hopefully this will prevent roughly 30% of the lawsuits so that the USFWS can actually accomplish something good (other than write defense papers). I will see what I can find as far as info on the new law.

The Endangered Species Act was a very thoughtful piece of legislation, however like any legislation that was produced in the 70's, it should be updated to mesh with modern technology and a vastly more modern world.

Brandon

Offline JLS

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2014, 09:30:09 PM »
Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.

It's clear that you do: First off you pretend that you don't care when as we have all seen you do, and second you don't even know me, but yet you comment on my IQ. So where do you go from their?

You show me one single quote of mine where I have voiced my support for Jamie Clark.  Not hating wolves  and not buying into the end of hunting conspiracy theory does not equate to supporting her or her agenda.

Where I go from here is to ignore your ridiculous accusations and jabs.
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2014, 06:33:43 AM »
Again, your words are rhetoric only. Licensed hunters have never caused the extinction of any animal in the US.

Weasle words....... Because before modern management took over hunters didn't buy a license to hunt.  The list of animals hunted to extinction before the advent of hunting licenses include the Passenger Pigeon, and the Stellar Sea Cow. Other animals hunted to extinction in various locals would include the Eastern Elk, the Eastern Woodland Bison, Californian Golden Bear, even the Yakima elk herd. And these are just a few examples from North America. There is more all over the world. Not to mention species hunted to the brink of extinction.

So to imply in any way that hunters haven't, or couldn't,  or wouldn't wipe out animals is dishonest at best. There wouldn't be anything to hunt if our recent ancestors hadn't taken the bull by the horns and made strict laws regarding recovery and then hunting.

It's not weasel words and it's not an implication. It's fact. Licensed hunters in the US don't make animals go extinct, period. What happened up to 1900 is not my responsibility. I'm an active participant of conservation. The animals you listed where killed by market shooters and the shooters in many cases were supported or hired by our own government. And, licensed hunters pay more money and put more volunteer hours into helping keep wildlife abundant than all other groups combined. Animals hunted to extinction all over the world have not done so as a result of licensed hunters. Sorry you don't know your facts but there they are.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2014, 06:46:22 AM »
It's not a "scam." That's all I will say. Some of you need your tin foil hats.   :tinfoil:

It's got nothing to do with tin foil hats. It's got to do with the act being used to forward private agendas. That was not the purpose of the original Act. It was supposed to protect and when possible, restore endangered and threatened animal populations. It's being used by extreme greenies to do a whole lot more. I don't believe that the ESA is a scam. I believe its use by certain specific groups (DOW, HSUS, PETA, etc.) to forward their agenda is, however.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2014, 08:17:27 AM »
If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!
Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.   :bash:  :bash:

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.
:) habitat loss.... as difficult as it is for some folks on here to comprehend, wildlife needs a place to live.  The ESA details habitat protection for that purpose. 

Offline buckfvr

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2014, 08:48:16 AM »
In my life time, I can honestly say I have witnessed great amounts of habitat loss from human encroachment.  That is the main pertinent factor in most of the changes Ive noticed since the late 60s early 70s. 

With human encroachment into most , if not all winter ranges of our wildlife, conflicts are to be expected. 

But with that, I would say introduction of predators and the soft management of predators will only be the root of many more problems going forward in time.

Its all about agendas.........so many agendas, so many people in need of a cause.

Did I mention, so many people ????????   Like way too many.

Offline bobcat

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2014, 09:31:32 AM »
It's not a "scam." That's all I will say. Some of you need your tin foil hats.   :tinfoil:

It's got nothing to do with tin foil hats. It's got to do with the act being used to forward private agendas. That was not the purpose of the original Act. It was supposed to protect and when possible, restore endangered and threatened animal populations. It's being used by extreme greenies to do a whole lot more. I don't believe that the ESA is a scam. I believe its use by certain specific groups (DOW, HSUS, PETA, etc.) to forward their agenda is, however.

Well, I simply don't agree that it has to do with "agendas." What it has to do with is protecting certains species and their habitat so they don't become extinct. I agree some of those species it may be arguable whether they're worthy of saving or not, but is it possible to write the law in a way that would allow some to be protected and others not?

Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2014, 10:55:40 AM »
The basis of the act is honorable, reasonable efforts should be made to protect and restore (if possible) all animals. There was nothing honorable or reasonable about reintroducing the wolf.  The ESA May not be a scam but it is being used perpetrate scams.  The greenies are purchasing land as fast as they can to lock up for their own purposes and this is another way for them to lock up lands and not use their own resources.

I like to compare the wolf reintroduction to the reintroduction of the Sea Otter in SE Alaska. Prior to reintroducing a non native sea otter stock there were flourishing urchin, crab, clam, and other shellfish stocks. Now, in many areas of SE AK there are areas where the sea otters have wiped out all mollusk stocks and possibly even exterminated some of the shellfish species. Now large areas are covered with impenetrable kelp mats and thousands of otters that cannot be managed in a reasonable manner.  AK natives can hunt them and I have seen guys coming in with boat loads but it does little to the overall population.  I have heard there are plans in the works for a limited season which would be great, but in many places it is too little too late. Hopefully saner heads prevail down here and one day I don't see packs of wolves roaming the Entiat and not a single deer to be seen.

Offline bobcat

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2014, 11:05:43 AM »
The stupid thing is that wolves never were in danger of going extinct, and should not have been listed as being "endangered," in my opinion. There were always plenty of wolves in Alaska and Canada. Bison are just as endangered as wolves ever were, and I don't see them  trying to restore bison to all of the areas where they previously existed. So yes, I do have issues with the way the ESA works, but I just don't think it should be eliminated entirely.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2014, 11:28:03 AM »
 :yeah: There were roughly 60,000 northern wolves in North America before they were introduced in ID/YNP. Another reason people are opposed to the abuse of the ESA and why congress needs to rewrite or scrap it altogether.  :tup:
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Offline Axle

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2014, 12:27:33 PM »
Good post Wolfbait!  :tup:
If anyone wanted to 'save' the wolf, then they should focus on getting rid of the non-native species which was unlawfully introduced and focus on saving what few timer wolves are left. I suspect the Canadian gray has probably killed them all off by now though.
Unlawfully introducing the non-native Canadian gray had nothing to do with saving a species. It does have a destructive way of running us out of ungulates though.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2014, 12:38:22 PM »
The ESA does do some good- look at bald eagles, they were brought back from the brink of extinction thanks to the protection they received from the ESA. Also, what about salmon and steelhead, they're important species that deserve saving, I'm sure most everyone would agree with that. And then, as the article mentioned, sage grouse and prairie chickens are benefitting from the ESA. Again, those are species that are important to me and I don't want to see them wiped out entirely.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2014, 12:38:58 PM »
Good post Wolfbait!  :tup:
If anyone wanted to 'save' the wolf, then they should focus on getting rid of the non-native species which was unlawfully introduced and focus on saving what few timer wolves are left. I suspect the Canadian gray has probably killed them all off by now though.
Unlawfully introducing the non-native Canadian gray had nothing to do with saving a species. It does have a destructive way of running us out of ungulates though.

Just curious, are you all for getting rid of all "non-native species" that were introduced? Or is it just wolves? Many non-native species compete with native species for food and habitat.
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Offline timberfaller

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2014, 03:59:03 PM »
No one have a answer to my question yet? :dunno:

Remember the Spotted owl was/is used to protect "old growth" by getting it listed.

The only good tree, is a stump!

Offline bobcat

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2014, 04:52:13 PM »

No one have a answer to my question yet? :dunno:

Remember the Spotted owl was/is used to protect "old growth" by getting it listed.

I think you've got it backwards. Old growth was protected to save the spotted owl.


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Offline Axle

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2014, 04:56:15 PM »
Quote
Good post Wolfbait!  :tup:
If anyone wanted to 'save' the wolf, then they should focus on getting rid of the non-native species which was unlawfully introduced and focus on saving what few timer wolves are left. I suspect the Canadian gray has probably killed them all off by now though.
Unlawfully introducing the non-native Canadian gray had nothing to do with saving a species. It does have a destructive way of running us out of ungulates though.




Just curious, are you all for getting rid of all "non-native species" that were introduced? Or is it just wolves? Many non-native species compete with native species for food and habitat.

I'm for getting rid of all the unlawfully-introduced Canadian gray wolves. Having a small number of native wolves here would not bother me.
If there was a way, I would say let's get rid of the rats (which are not native to this country) and I wouldn't mind getting rid of the eastern gray squirrels in western WA too.
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2014, 06:45:49 PM »
If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!
Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.   :bash:  :bash:

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.
:) habitat loss.... as difficult as it is for some folks on here to comprehend, wildlife needs a place to live.  The ESA details habitat protection for that purpose.

Do to wolves in WA, MT, ID, WY, OR, and where ever wolves show up, they create more habitat by putting the game herds in a predator pit sooner or later. The argument that more habitat is needed after wolves go through is total BS. Look at where wolves have decimated the game herds in Idaho etc., and soon WA will be in far worse shape. But the pro-wolf agenda driven people still tout more habitat as to the answer for declining game herds etc.. It is a joke, but it probably sounds good to those who are brain-washed.

Here we are 18 years later, we have seen what the wolves have done in other states and yet WDFW are playing the same game as the USFWS did through their wolf push on the three hardest states to introduce wolves in once the truth was known. We shouldn't even be talking about this from the history that we now know, WDFW should be hunting these wolves as a predator instead of protecting them above all else.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 06:52:26 PM by wolfbait »

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2014, 06:51:00 PM »
As far as the ESA, it has never been used to protect a truly endangered species, but instead to acquire  land or shut down areas such as they did with the spotted owl and logging, or shutting down water rights for farmers over a fish that isn't even close to being endangered. The ESA is just another tool used to control the land and the people. It should be scraped.

 

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6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 by W_Ellison2011
[Today at 10:13:36 PM]


Coolant Problem 2000 GMC Sierra by hollymaster
[Today at 10:11:55 PM]


GA precision rifles anyone by hogslayer
[Today at 10:05:28 PM]


Scouting a new trapline by Eric M
[Today at 10:03:20 PM]


.17 HMR, Thoughts? by Eric M
[Today at 10:01:36 PM]


Horn growth by Eric M
[Today at 09:44:29 PM]