collapse
Sound like the real thing! Order Jason Phelps Calls Here

Author Topic: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A  (Read 64634 times)

Offline Lingcod

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 186
  • Friends don't let friends eat farmed Salmon
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2014, 10:20:20 PM »
Tag
“Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other.”

Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 3567
  • Location: Chehalis
    • https://www.facebook.com/stiknstring.bow
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 12:31:38 PM »
Jason-
Meant to ask you this a few weeks ago and never got around to it.
We had a bull I called in last fall stop in thick timber and start raking trees. I could see the trees swaying, he came in silent and hung up. He was about 60-70 yards and we couldn't see him. This went on for 10-15 minutes and eventually he wandered off. I could cow call and he'd start raking again for a short time, then stop. Cow call again, he'd get all wadded up and tear into the tree. Eventually I stopped all together thinking maybe he'd walk out or move or something to where we could see him....nothing. I tried a wimpy sounding bugle and got nothing. Eventually the wind swirled and he busted, but he busted calmly...just kinda trotted off.  Just curious what the right thing to do "could have" been in that scenario. I know I had no clue what to do and was just throwing stuff out there to no avail. It was thick brush/timber and we were outside of that on the edge of an open meadow, and there were some cows present...we could hear them calling back and forth too.

Thanks for this thread...cool idea, and sticky'd!
-Josh

Quote
Jackelope ...I know you ask Jason the question but I am sure there is more than one answer  :chuckle: I would have let him walk off and moved into where he was and try calling again  :twocents:  just like if I was turkey hunting ...


My opinion this shows a common situation.
An elk knows where the sound came from, and is at least as smart as I am.
I dont want to be seen, the elk wants to see something before it will show itself, so it "displays" by raking.
I do this all the time, I get set-up in a good vantage point where I can see, have plenty of shooting lanes, but the elk wont come past a certain point.  :bash:
I would stop and evaluate the wind,  do a big circle to get downwind, move as close as the thick stuff as I could to break up my outline, and force my scent away, and look for a trail to follow, move into area where, if you see an elk, it will be in range, then some excited cow calls followed by some raking of your own.....  :dunno:

They never do what you want them to anyways.
The mountains are calling and I must go."
- John Muir
"I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order."
- John Burroughs
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor Trainer

Offline Big6bull

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 328
  • Location: Wet side
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2014, 02:49:10 PM »
Jason I have two questions, I have several cow calls and a couple from you, I have trouble with all of them getting wet and "seazing up" unable to call properly. Usually when I need them the most lol. Dollar bill under the reed helps for a little bit. Anything I can do? And as a solo hunter often. Do u call solo or always in a team? Is there anything perticular to help calling the bull into a spot I can actually get a shot off lol

Thanks

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 02:54:33 PM »
On the external calls spray both the black plastic board and Mylar reed with own cooking spray and wide dry. Also try not to drink sugary drinks or eat sugary drinks right before using the call. Rinse with water if you can.

We try to call as a team as much as possible, but I've had a lot of luck calling solo as well. Try to setup up with good shooting lanes out in front of you. It's not worth getting yourself into a position to quick and then not being able to get a shot off. Use the terrain and wind to your advantage and predict where the elk will end up.

Offline fair-chase

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 1618
  • Location: Tri-Cities WA
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2014, 03:30:57 PM »
Situation:
It's the first week of October and the herds you have scouted have vanished. Likely due to pressure from archery and special draw hunters. Hunting grounds are steep and thick. There's not enough breakup in the canopy to allow for effective glassing in most areas (think extreme NE corner or Peninsula type ground). Very few logging roads so most travel is strictly cross country without a trail system.

Questions:
(1) What is your preferred method for locating the elk this late in the breeding season.

(2) How would you navigate this terrain in search of elk? Would you stay on ridge tops in order to move fast(er) and cover ground? Side hill at expected holding elevations? Creek bottoms to look for tracks?

(3) If using calls to locate, what type and how aggressive in cold calling/locating situations?

Offline BUTTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 197
  • Location: CAMAS
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2014, 12:53:39 PM »
Hey Jason here's a question for you and your thoughts we killed a bull last season after chasing him for a few days. Everyday for the first three days he would bugle but it was apparent he kept moving his cows like usual we would try and move closer and same sequence he would take off we finally changed it up and bugled to him he answered as usual but this time we didn't call back and just went right in on him and not.making another peep we got within bow range and took him and one if his cows. I quess my question is how long would you attempt to call in a herd bull before deciding to do such a method?

Offline 6haase6

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 413
  • Location: Odessa Washington
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2014, 01:29:31 PM »
Ok chances are good my cousin will draw a branched bull tag this year. When I had mine in 2012 we set cameras out with salt only. We had bulls all summer on the camera down towards the bottom of a canyon in the thick reprod there was a crick in the very bottom and a stagnant pond we thought they would use as a wallow. We had cows and little bulls at the top of the ridge in the more open trees on just salt. We lost the bulls in mid august and lost the cows as season started (guessing due to traffic the camera was within ear shot of a road). We hadn't seen sign of beef cows all summer around the cam with the bulls on it but when we got there for season there was a herd of beef cows in the area. Ok now for my questions did the bulls leave because of these beef cows or some other reason? Oh yea forgot to say these bulls left right at the time they would be stripping velvet. What should we do or look for to try and keep these bulls around or find out where they are going. I did end up harvesting a bull that we had never seen that was probably within a mile of the camera that had the bulls on it. Only hunted elk in September that one year so we are pretty new at it so any and all input will be more than helping.
Slinging arrows and flinging lead is in my blood!

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2014, 02:47:59 PM »
Situation:
It's the first week of October and the herds you have scouted have vanished. Likely due to pressure from archery and special draw hunters. Hunting grounds are steep and thick. There's not enough breakup in the canopy to allow for effective glassing in most areas (think extreme NE corner or Peninsula type ground). Very few logging roads so most travel is strictly cross country without a trail system.

Questions:
(1) What is your preferred method for locating the elk this late in the breeding season.

(2) How would you navigate this terrain in search of elk? Would you stay on ridge tops in order to move fast(er) and cover ground? Side hill at expected holding elevations? Creek bottoms to look for tracks?

(3) If using calls to locate, what type and how aggressive in cold calling/locating situations?

1)Locator bugles will still work or listening for bulls to bugle on their own from a vantage point.  The best case scenario is that you know the ground and have an idea where the elk are at.  Where they are feeding, bedding and watering.  Then slip into these areas at the right time of day

2)Very dependent.  This is where hunters need to adapt.  I would most likely start on the ridge line and try and cut some tracks.  If that wasn't working I would drop to mid slope and then the bottom until I find elk.  I would focus on large chunks of topo/vegetation change i.e; benches, bowls, clear cuts, etc...

3)I would locate bugle often and loud.  The thick timber will rob you of volume and you really can't hurt anything through a locator bugle.

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2014, 02:51:48 PM »
Hey Jason here's a question for you and your thoughts we killed a bull last season after chasing him for a few days. Everyday for the first three days he would bugle but it was apparent he kept moving his cows like usual we would try and move closer and same sequence he would take off we finally changed it up and bugled to him he answered as usual but this time we didn't call back and just went right in on him and not.making another peep we got within bow range and took him and one if his cows. I quess my question is how long would you attempt to call in a herd bull before deciding to do such a method?

Were you calling on your way to the bull?  I always locate, be quiet and get 60-100 yards away (especially on a herd bull).

I don't know if you were calling or not on the first three days attempts, but calling as you approach the bull will almost always result in him gathering his cows and getting out of there.

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2014, 02:56:29 PM »
Ok chances are good my cousin will draw a branched bull tag this year. When I had mine in 2012 we set cameras out with salt only. We had bulls all summer on the camera down towards the bottom of a canyon in the thick reprod there was a crick in the very bottom and a stagnant pond we thought they would use as a wallow. We had cows and little bulls at the top of the ridge in the more open trees on just salt. We lost the bulls in mid august and lost the cows as season started (guessing due to traffic the camera was within ear shot of a road). We hadn't seen sign of beef cows all summer around the cam with the bulls on it but when we got there for season there was a herd of beef cows in the area. Ok now for my questions did the bulls leave because of these beef cows or some other reason? Oh yea forgot to say these bulls left right at the time they would be stripping velvet. What should we do or look for to try and keep these bulls around or find out where they are going. I did end up harvesting a bull that we had never seen that was probably within a mile of the camera that had the bulls on it. Only hunted elk in September that one year so we are pretty new at it so any and all input will be more than helping.

The bulls will almost always go find the cows.    Look at the lay of the land on a topo map and try and figure out where they could be going.  If you want I can take a look at the area and give you some ideas (Don't worry I won't share any info if you want to PM me).

The beef could have affected them but a lot of times they don't bother them.

Offline BenC567

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 104
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2014, 03:04:39 PM »
Jason,

I freaking suck as using diaphragm calls. I can't keep them in my mouth without gagging and can barely ever get a sound out of them.  What is the smallest/easiest diaphragm you sell? I have trimmed up calls before but still can't get them work. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ben


Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2014, 03:55:02 PM »
Ben,
The smallest diaphragm I sell is size small, which is a youth diaphragm. I can also set my tape cutter to shorten up the tape.

I also recommend you try the Bugling Bull mini master or Primos mini if you haven't already.


Offline BenC567

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 104
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2014, 04:14:05 PM »
Ben,
The smallest diaphragm I sell is size small, which is a youth diaphragm. I can also set my tape cutter to shorten up the tape.

I also recommend you try the Bugling Bull mini master or Primos mini if you haven't already.

Thanks! I'll put an order in the next few days.

Offline steeliedrew

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 615
  • Location: Ballard
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2014, 05:50:25 AM »
Drew,
High Narrow palates are tough. I offer a youth small frame that fits high in the palate. Have you tried bugling bull mini master tone top?  That should give you an even better fit than the green all star. 

Jason,

I'll have to order some of the youth frame ones from you and give them a shot soon. I check out that mini master as well. RadSav PM'd me and said he has a great fix for high palate issues and would post it on here. I'm intrigued. Also, will you be doing any seminars this summer aside from the one over on Bainbridge Island?

Thank you,

Drew
Every thought of my being is in regards to being a high tech predator and I relish the role.

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2014, 09:06:39 AM »
I have one At Lucky Shot on July 12th and XXX archery on July 18th.

Offline steeliedrew

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 615
  • Location: Ballard
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2014, 10:51:53 AM »
That's great news. I'll try and make it to one of those for sure.

Every thought of my being is in regards to being a high tech predator and I relish the role.

Offline Solohunter84

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2013
  • Posts: 344
  • Location: Shelton
  • Live to Hunt. Hunt to live.
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2014, 10:56:26 AM »
Tag!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline BUTTER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 197
  • Location: CAMAS
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2014, 01:37:01 PM »
Thanks Jason for the amswer and yes we were calling on the way but I think this coming season I will try your approach on sneaking in thanks for the quick response Drew

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2014, 08:13:34 AM »
The other way to be very effective is to leave a guy back to locate the bull as the hunter slips in. The bull won't feel threatened this way and will just continue to respond.

Offline luvmystang67

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 1543
  • Location: Snohomish
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2014, 08:38:52 AM »
I'm sure I cant be helped, but TAG, just in case.

Offline Russ McDonald

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 5228
  • Location: Enumclaw
  • USN ET3 SW 87-92, USS Excel MSO 439
    • https://www.facebook.com/russell.mcdonald.90
  • Groups: NWTF, NRA
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2014, 08:45:19 AM »
Tag.
Russell McDonald
President Lake Washington NWTF Chapter and vice president of the WA state board NWTF
The opinions expressed in my posts do not represent those of the forum.

Offline Russ McDonald

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 5228
  • Location: Enumclaw
  • USN ET3 SW 87-92, USS Excel MSO 439
    • https://www.facebook.com/russell.mcdonald.90
  • Groups: NWTF, NRA
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2014, 08:10:15 PM »
Jason I forgot to ask this today at the seminar but after your shot, (hopefully a good one) whether it is gun, muzzy or bow, is it always good to make a cow call to slow the animal down trying to calm it down?  I have seen it done on many hunting shows.
Russell McDonald
President Lake Washington NWTF Chapter and vice president of the WA state board NWTF
The opinions expressed in my posts do not represent those of the forum.

Offline JPhelps

  • I EAT ELK!!!
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2787
  • Location: Pe Ell
  • http://www.primetime-outdoors.com
    • Primetime Outdoors
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2014, 08:25:00 PM »
Yes,
I usually always call but I also want to hear what is going on. So I will typically call intermittently while listening in between short calls.

Offline Russ McDonald

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 5228
  • Location: Enumclaw
  • USN ET3 SW 87-92, USS Excel MSO 439
    • https://www.facebook.com/russell.mcdonald.90
  • Groups: NWTF, NRA
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2014, 08:41:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply.
Russell McDonald
President Lake Washington NWTF Chapter and vice president of the WA state board NWTF
The opinions expressed in my posts do not represent those of the forum.

Offline DIYARCHERYJUNKIE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3096
  • Location: hoodcanal
Re: Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2014, 08:24:11 AM »
I did just this two years ago.  Slowed him down a ton.  He was bleeding bad but I think the excitement I was feeling came out in the call.  Not sure what noise I made.  Just cow calls Maybe to rapid and to excited.  It seemed to push him away.  If I had been softer on it he may have laid up.

 

ElkNut Outdoor Productions