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Author Topic: HOGS  (Read 17532 times)

Offline KFhunter

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HOGS
« on: September 17, 2014, 06:05:25 PM »
yup - I just jumped into the hog business  :chuckle:

Picked up a large black sow, pure bred registers with notched ears and the whole works.


Anyone got a large black purebred boar I'd like to pick one up!  for now I'm going to cross with a tamworth for some tasty BBQ goodness.


can anyone say whole hog roast?   :fire.: :EAT: :party1:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 06:13:59 PM »
So what is your target hog farm size?  500, 1000, 5000 ?
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 07:22:05 PM »
12  :chuckle:
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Offline hollymaster

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 07:27:05 PM »
Bacon  :drool: :drool:

Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 07:29:41 PM »
Bacon  :drool: :drool:

 :yeah:

old world style, thick cut with the rinds on  :drool:
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 10:00:06 PM »
http://largeblackhogassociation.org/large-black-hogs-a-heritage-grazing-pig/



Quote
Todays small farmers are looking for a heritage breed of pig that can be raised on pasture and produce a superior pork for a niche market. Heritage breeds are those that were perfected over a hundred years ago by farmers who bred for taste, hardiness, mothering ability, and efficiency. Most heritage breeds of hogs are very rare today and one of the most rare is the Large Black Hog.

With fewer than 300 registered breeding hogs living today, the Large Black is listed as endangered by the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy. It was once one of the most popular breeds of pigs in Europe until pork production moved indoors by huge commercial hog operations. With the organic and slow food movement, the Large Black is experiencing renewed interest and huge demand.

The History of Large Black Hogs
The Large Black is believed to have been developed in the late 1800’s from Chinese breeds brought to England. They are of the “bacon” type, or meat producer, instead of the “lard” type common of that day. They became known as the Devon or Cornwall pigs from their area of origin before becoming just the “Large Black.” By the 1900’s the Large Black Hogs were spread throughout Britain in outdoor pork production operations. The Large Black Hogs were imported into the U.S. in the 1950’s and again in the 1990’s where they were breed by a hand full of breeders for the exquisite and unique taste of the Large Black’s pork.

They were originally favored for many reasons including their hardiness, mothering ability, milk production and prolificacy. The Large Black is a very efficient pork producer because it can glean a large portion of it’s food from grazing. Unlike many breeds of hog, their black skin protects them from sunburn and enables them to live outdoors on open pastures.

The Large Black Hogs Breed Standard
The Large Black Hogs Hogs are aptly named large since they can reach weights upwards of 700 pounds or more. Their head is well proportioned of medium length with a long neck. The ears are large, thin and hang forward covering the eyes and most of the face. The chest is wide and deep with fine shoulders in line with the ribs. Their back is very long and strong with a broad loin. Ribs should be well sprung on a long deep body. The hams are very broad and full on well set, straight fat legs. The only acceptable color is solid black with fine straight black silky hair. The belly should have a straight underline with at least 12 evenly spaced teats starting well forward.

Temperament
They are among the most docile and friendly breed of hogs alive today. They typically move slowly and it is believed their slow movement is due to their obstructed vision from their large forward hanging ears. They rely more on their sense of smell and hearing than anything. Its typical for a Large Black Hog to freeze when they hear you approach until they can determine if you are friend or foe. It helps to talk to your pigs so as not to alarm them when you first enter their area.

The pigs start out shy but soon gain confidence and readily accept people. They are not aggressive toward humans and typically will not take up for themselves if attacked by other animals. Sows and boars learn their name and follow their owners like a dog. Large Black Hogs are a favorite with the children and visitors to the farm. Mother sows are protective yet tolerant of your gentle handling of their young. Even the boars are docile yet you should never fully trust a breeding age male of any species.

Large Black Hogs Are The Breed For Today
In order to have a successful outdoor pig operation, you must match the breed of pig to your particular farm environment. Since the heritage breeds were developed for outdoor production, they most certainly give you the best results. The Large Black is well equipped for pasture with its protective black skin that does not burn in the sun. They are also hardy enough to live in the northern parts of the U.S. and Canada.

The Large Black is truly a grazing pig. A mature dry sow can meet nearly all her nutritional demands on good pasture with legumes and young growing vegetation. A growing pig can glean up to half of his requirements from pasture while producing a better tasting, healthier pork than one raised strictly on grain.

Though any heritage breed can be used for pasture pork production, the Large Black has the added advantage of being easy on your pastures. Large Black Hogs graze without rooting and without ringing their nose. As long as your pastures are palatable, the Large Black Hogs will graze the top and move on to the next paddock in the rotation. They can easily be trained to electric fencing and flourish in rotational grazing systems. They are a grazing pig but they are still a pig so they will certainly make a mud wallow near their water source. This is necessary to cool themselves in the heat since pigs dont sweat .

Taste
The only reason we raise hogs to begin with is for their pork, so just how does the taste of a Large Black compare to other breeds? The answer, exceptional! When processed at around 200 pounds, the pork is lean yet micro-marbled for a moist product on the grill or in the oven. The texture of the pork is extra tender due to the short muscle fibers which has earned it a place in some of the most exclusive restaurants in New York and Europe. The meat is slightly darker in color with an old world flavor. Large Black Hogs are also famous for their exceptional bacon.


Conclusion
The Large Black Hog is a heritage pig perfect for todays pasture pork production. This tender and moist pork with the old world flavor will become a staple on your customers plates. Its been said that the way to a mans heart is through his stomach but this pig will steal your heart long before it reaches your table.
Written by Kay Wolfe.

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2014, 08:44:24 AM »
So what is your target hog farm size?  500, 1000, 5000 ?

I don't know at this point, we'll see how it goes. 


Beef is insane right now  :yike:    tough market to get into,  about the time I get some breeding pairs on the ground the market could drop considerably, as it would take a few years to build a herd and start selling. 

Hogs are very obtainable, but there is a couple of factors I'm hedging against.   One is the hog virus that's sweeping across the US in the commercial hog industry.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/27/us-usa-pork-pig-virus-idUSBREA3Q0IC20140427
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-usa-hogs-virus-idUSBREA2C23Z20140313
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/05/140501-pigs-virus-meat-prices-food-science-health/

Quote
Virus "Scares the Tar Out of You"

Losses can be catastrophic. Greg Lear, a hog producer near Spencer, Iowa, says the disease showed up in his barns on December 21 last year, and he and his employees were soon overwhelmed. "It was about 850 little pigs that didn't make it," he says. "For three weeks, it was 100 percent death. It was really tough."

PEDv first appeared in the United States in Ohio last May, and has since spread to 30 states. Rodney "Butch" Baker, a swine biosecurity specialist at Iowa State University in Ames, recently told Reuters that about "a tablespoon of PEDv-infected manure is roughly enough to infect the entire U.S. hog herd."

"It just scares the tar out of you how much of this virus is out there and how easily it can be spread," says Lear.


Another is Chinese acquisition of Smithfield.   China is the largest hog consumption country, so our hogs grown here will go to feed the many mouths in China...driving up our hog costs and worse the cost of our feed locally.  More and more ground will have to come out of CRP and put into corn/grains, which during a drought who knows??

In the USA if you eat any pork product out of a box store odds are very good it came through Smithfield doors, Smithfield provides meat under many different labels...and now it's Chinese owned  :puke:  Why would the US allow foreigners to control any part of our food supply chain???  Chinese are buy bigAG industry as fast as we can sell it.   :bash: :bash: :bash:

Anyways - I'm going to raise pastured hogs in the traditional old world style.  My brother is in Germany learning how they raise hogs there, the meat they put out puts our meat to shame.  It's not even in the same ball park.  Large Blacks don't root and rototiller supposedly,  so I can put them in my alfalfa fields and not have them turn it over for me  :chuckle:

 
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Offline grundy53

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 11:42:28 AM »
Tagging.

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Offline black hog

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 07:57:17 PM »
I have raised these pigs in the past and they are great for sure I might be able to find you a boar but it won't be cheap as far as rooting goes they most definitely root so be careful about your fields especially if you want them to get most of their food from pasture also you will want to keep in mind the cost of feed retail can run as much as 700 dollars per ton and these pigs grow slower than standard breed pigs so you will.be about a half ton of grain per pig to finish so raising a litter of 10 could get very expensive by no means am I trying to talk you out of this just wanted to give you some information. The disease You talk of is very real make sure if you have visitors from other farms you have them rinse their boots or shoes in a bleach water mix before they go anywhere near your animals let know if you would like me to locate a boar for you

Offline JJB11B

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 08:00:31 PM »
are you talking about bloody scours? I had to stop raising hogs in high school becuase of that
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2014, 08:26:21 AM »
I have raised these pigs in the past and they are great for sure I might be able to find you a boar but it won't be cheap as far as rooting goes they most definitely root so be careful about your fields especially if you want them to get most of their food from pasture also you will want to keep in mind the cost of feed retail can run as much as 700 dollars per ton and these pigs grow slower than standard breed pigs so you will.be about a half ton of grain per pig to finish so raising a litter of 10 could get very expensive by no means am I trying to talk you out of this just wanted to give you some information. The disease You talk of is very real make sure if you have visitors from other farms you have them rinse their boots or shoes in a bleach water mix before they go anywhere near your animals let know if you would like me to locate a boar for you

Picking up swine feed (non-gmo) $109.50 / 1000 lbs super sacks.

Hoping some open grazing will cut feed costs,, since I'm not running cattle right now I got plenty of pasture for a few hogs.
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Offline curtdiesel

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 09:49:08 AM »
I'm interested to find out how hard they are on your pasture.  I have some goats in my back yard and my daughter would love to raise a pig with her.  If it didn't mess stuff up too bad and I could buy it in the early spring and butcher it late fall then I would be all for buying one next year.

Offline lokidog

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2014, 10:03:59 AM »
How much pasture is needed per hog?  Weathergirl would love a pig but we could probably only make about an acre and a half of pasture.

Offline wafisherman

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 10:57:21 AM »
most breeds of hogs are bulldozers and will dig and root like crazy.  If you have a yard or even a nice looking barnyard, it will be screwed up in no time.  They'll move pretty large objects around, dump them over, dig up things you'd wish they didn't, and any time the ground is wet, they'll really go deep.  The more hogs in an area, the sooner it will turn into a mud bog.  They relentlessly dig and root and love turning everything they can into mud soup.  Pasture raising is great, but they will put fences to the test, electric or not. 

I have a pretty good backyard hog system down.  I raise 2-4 per year.  Keep half hog for my family and sell the others by the half hog.  I let them free range for the first few months, then move into a smaller pen for a month or so for some fresh browse\grass\weeds\veggies I let grow there, and then the last few months, yet another pen that has been sitting and growing stuff for the right moment.  This final pen is built from 5x16 foot heavy wire hog panels.  I have 8 I think it is.  I use long t-posts and then just use heavy zip ties.  I keep them loose on the posts so the panels will be harder to dig under as they sink down as they dig.  They need a shelter and dry spot to sleep and get out of the mud and cold.  A cold hog will not grow as fast as a hog who can warm up and dry off when he wants and sleeps.  Fresh straw to sleep in as needed.  I also feed some orchard grass and yard waste and branches for them to chew on, and since they are next to my garden, it is easy to just toss over any garden scraps and plants that are done for the year.  I also have a deal with a local produce stand where they have bins out back to toss fruit and veggies that are no longer sellable.  I pick up the bins a few times a week.  I also have friend who has a commercial goat milk farm.  I pick up several gallons of their unsold milk each week for the pigs. I also make rounds to a few local bakery outlets to get expired bread.  I love to increase the breads the last month especially, along with more grains. 

Anyway, I enjoy it and love the final product of course.  If I had more property, I'd likely raise more.  There is a good market if know how and where to advertise.  The Seattle\Bellevue area is full of 'foodies' who love to eat food from local farms, especially if they know the person raising it.  But I do fine just selling to my friends, family, and co-workers.  This year I decided to offer to this forum and sold out pretty fast.  I don't make any money out of it, but about break even so that my family's pork is basically free.  Increase to just a few more hogs and I'd be turning a bit of a profit.  But the initial investment in fencing, feeders, shelter, etc is something to watch.  And anything you can do to keep feed cost low, yet obviously clean and healthy so they grow fast and efficient, will really help.  I wouldn't count on the pasture raised approach to save you much on feed.  They expended energy running around and rooting around property will probably cancel out a lot of the savings in what they manage to root up and graze off the land.  To really put on weight fast and reach market weight of 250-300lbs in about 6months, you'll need to give them most of their food from something besides pasture\grass\hay.

Offline black hog

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 06:02:18 PM »
KF if you would share were you are getting that price on grain I would like to try some that is much cheaper than I am paying and I go through 7 to 10 tons a month I would greatly appreciate it

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2014, 06:13:18 PM »
I used to know some guys that raised hogs and they got a good deal on feed by going to small breweries/distilleries and got barley or corn for low prices even free.  Don't know if that is an option for you guys.
Also, some were getting large bins of cull apples for free.  The pigs loved them.  The demand for wildlife feed may have priced that option out of viability nowdays, though.

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2014, 06:50:30 PM »
Been around a pig or two, as stated health is a big deal, pay attention.  Nutritional requirements need to be met for the bottom line.  Health, growth, reproduction, longevity and quality meat depends on meeting requirements.  A pigs system is like yours, simple stomach, but they have the potential to grow like crazy, 300 pounds in five months with top genetics so feeding them needs to meet the need.  High fiber diets, pasture, is not enough energy, protein and host of other needs.  They are smarter than a dog and more independent than a cat, again pay attention, a 800 pound independent minded boar can put real big holes in you real fast and let you ride it around the pen later in the day.  Babies are fragile, a missed meal or two and they are dead.  A virus that mom handles with no symptoms wipes out the whole litter.  The sow likes 60 degrees, the babies 100.  Cross breeding has big advantages, better survival and faster growth.  Do not be discouraged.  If you like them and enjoy a challenge you can produce a lot with a little.

Offline DRENALINJUNKIE

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2014, 07:07:05 PM »
Tag

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2014, 07:24:36 PM »
You need to make your own feed Blackhog.  If you are feeding 100 tons a year you could pay for the equipment quickly and have the exact diets you need

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2014, 07:29:03 PM »
How much pasture is needed per hog?  Weathergirl would love a pig but we could probably only make about an acre and a half of pasture.

I can see it know feral hogs on Decatur Island!  :chuckle:
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2014, 08:09:10 PM »
KF if you would share were you are getting that price on grain I would like to try some that is much cheaper than I am paying and I go through 7 to 10 tons a month I would greatly appreciate it

http://www.naturalfarmfeed.com/

I don't know if they can handle that much?  Said to call ahead 24 hours or so and they'd have a super sack for me.

I think nwwanderer is right though,  this is a farm that is feeding enough product they bought all their own mixers.   

You should do the same, then sell to smaller guys and help them save a few bucks.
I live so far out the fuel costs would kill a business like that, but I could probably get some local feed sold and help out the area should I get big enough.

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2014, 08:19:29 PM »
How much pasture is needed per hog?  Weathergirl would love a pig but we could probably only make about an acre and a half of pasture.

could so with a smaller breed, or a niche breed.

You farm is plenty big enough. 


Someone mentioned foodies,  check out Mangalitsa hogs  :tup:

foodie hog of choice,  and they're really expensive  :o
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Offline lokidog

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2014, 08:25:07 PM »
How much pasture is needed per hog?  Weathergirl would love a pig but we could probably only make about an acre and a half of pasture.

I can see it know feral hogs on Decatur Island!  :chuckle:

Hmmmm.........   :rolleyes:

"check out Mangalitsa hogs"   Thanks KF.

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2014, 08:45:09 PM »
For the acreage, the pig that I remember from way back, we kept in an enclosed pasture about a 1/2 acre.  You could pick up a piglet in summer and have them in the pasture by fall.  They would grow quickly.  I seem to remember them being about 10 pounds in August and close to 300 the following April.  But it was fed in mornings and evenings and taken out to exercise.  For the exercise, I use to hang a bucket of food off the bumper and drive...pigs can run pretty fast when they want to.

Offline wafisherman

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Re: HOGS
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2014, 12:11:10 PM »
Why exercise?  You want to let all energy gi to growth.  Lots of good fat and muscle.  Running around a pasture just burns calories that should be used for weight gain.  My hogs finish in a a pen around 400 square feet for 2-3 hogs.  Plenty of space to grow bacon :)