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Offline BoArcher

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crossbow use
« on: May 20, 2015, 11:32:48 PM »
I'm not really sure what the main issue is with the use of crossbows during archery season is.  Can someone tell me?  Especially since these days compound bows far outshoot crossbows.  60 yards is actually a long shot for a crossbow considering arrow drop.  Also the majority of scopes are only pinned out to 50 yards.  I've also read a lot of comments from archery hunters on this forum saying that if they were disabled they'd start gun hunting.  Ask yourself this- why do you archery hunt now?  If your answer is because of the excitement of having to get in close to the animal then why would you want to quit if you could switch to a crossbow?  Be honest-you wouldn't.

I've been hunting with bows since I was 12.  I'm 47 now.  Started with a recurve with no sights.  Bought my first compound in 1986 and still didn't use sights.  Finally started using sights around 1998.  My point is that the sport keeps evolving and new advances in technology makes it easier to kill animals using archery equipment.  So if it shoots an arrow what difference does it make wether its a shoulder fired or not?  Why should anyone shooting an arrow slight anyone else who chooses to shoot an arrow a different way?

I am disabled due to Lou Gehrig's disease.  Fortunately the progression has been slow.  I am unable to pull a bow back anymore and have some difficulty walking very far.  I started using a crossbow two years ago.  Carrying a crossbow SUCKS!  They are heavy and cumbersome.  I'd much rather carry a bow.  I carry the crossbow because I still feel like an archery hunter and want to remain an archery hunter.  It's in my blood.  I like the challenge of having to get close.  I enjoy the solitude of the archery season.  No guns going off all the time.

So please consider everything before making statements that could eventually hurt all archery hunters.  Remember it wasn't all that long ago when archery was considered evil by the mainstream due to arrows left in the woods and injured animals.  We all need to stick together.  Please don't let your own biases and jealousies ruin someone else's hunting opportunities or experience.

Offline Todd_ID

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 06:25:43 AM »
Certainly fair points that you've made. The reason I don't want them allowed in archery seasons is sort of based in your logic. There's a mental barrier that I belive keeps many from getting into archery who won't put in the time to be proficient enough to be an asset to the sport. The perception exists that a crossbow is a grab and go 100 yards is easy kind of equipment. That would allow those who won't practice into the sport because that mental barrier wasn't there. Like you said,  the reality is that the crossbow needs just as much upkeep and tuning as a compound to keep it performing well enough to hunt with.

It's my opinion that it's our duty as hunters to protect the integrity of the sport while continuing to find new opportunities to introduce new people to it.  Allowing crossbows into archery would certainly be adding opportunity, but I think the loss of integrity would be too great of a cost.
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Offline headshot5

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 07:04:24 AM »
If I found I could no longer effectively use a bow and I really wanted to, I would switch to pistol hunting in modern season.  Same thrill, up close and personal with your targeted game animal, without having to lug an unwieldy crossbow around. 

*Disclamer***  Most of my hunting is done in the thick jungles of the west side, and a crossbow seems like the worst possible sized weapon for carrying, and it would drive me absolutely crazy.  I'm pretty sure I will never use one for hunting.     


Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 07:19:32 AM »
Thanks for your thoughtful Reply Todd_ID.  I understand what you are saying but remember back when sights became popular on bows and the same argument was made then?  It is easy to pick a crossbow that has been sighted to sixty yards and shoot a bullseye at a static target on the range. It's a little different shooting off hand in the woods.  But I would hope that anyone considering going into the woods would practice as much as possible so that every shot would be a confident shot.  That in my mind would be protecting the integrity of the sport.  Practicing with what ever system we take into the woods and learning about the game we are hunting is what sets us apart from the majority of gun hunters.   So regardless of whether you use a recurve, compound, crossbow, sights or no sights, we should be supporting each other as archery hunters.

Side note-I haven't researched every crossbow manufacturer but the crossbow is not meant to be a long distance weapon.  After 60 yards the bolt drop is so significant that it isn't worth taking a chance injuring the animal.  Here's just one resource on crossbow range- http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/how-far-can-you-shoot-a-crossbow/

Thanks again Todd.  We should definitely keep advocating the integrity of our sport through continuing education.

Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 07:27:27 AM »
It is a real pain headshot5!  Definitely harder to get through are Westside jungles.  Still worth it though.  Part of the excitement of hunting the rut for elk is learning to use calls.  So exciting calling in a bull!  And like I mentioned before, archery has become part of who I am.  I haven't tried pistol hunting and I'm sure it is exciting.  But I can't imagine going into the woods without an arrow of some sort.  Thanks for your input though.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2015, 07:31:58 AM »
BoArcher. The main argument I have heard, and agree with, regarding crossbow use in general archery seasons is the ability for the weapon to remain "cocked". Now, I am not opposed to anyone with disabilites to have the chance to use a crossbow for hunting by permit. I think good points have already been made about other aspects. The idea of pistol hunting to me is also very intriguing. If it keeps you out there for one more season, one more hunt, one more early morning walk, I'd say give it a try. Best of luck in the coming seasons.
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Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2015, 08:42:11 AM »
h20hunter thank you for your reply.  I hate that the crossbow needs to be cocked and ready.  Along with it being cumbersome it is definitely a real hazard for hunting partners.  Weapon safety is paramount!  Problem is I have to use a crank to cock the crossbow.  It takes about 30 seconds or so to load the darn thing.  It wouldn't be feasible to load once you've called in an elk. 

There really is no advantage to using a crossbow.  It's just a tool to keep archery hunters hunting. 

Offline h20hunter

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 08:46:46 AM »
Also, I agree with you on how cumbersome they are. I've not hunted with one, only shot one for kicks and giggles in camp but man...they are big! I'm plenty able bodied and don't see any way that I would lug that thing for any distance to actually hunt. Maybe if I was simply walking in to a blind but spot and stalk, no way. I've thought that pistol hunting would be more like archery than the xbow. Close in, almost silent draw. With your disablity I'm sure you would have some challenges that would be equal to or possibly greater than your archery hunting experience.
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Offline lokidog

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 11:16:49 AM »
h20hunter thank you for your reply.  I hate that the crossbow needs to be cocked and ready.  Along with it being cumbersome it is definitely a real hazard for hunting partners.  Weapon safety is paramount!  Problem is I have to use a crank to cock the crossbow.  It takes about 30 seconds or so to load the darn thing.  It wouldn't be feasible to load once you've called in an elk. 

There really is no advantage to using a crossbow.  It's just a tool to keep archery hunters hunting.

I'm sorry, but I disagree completely, there is a massive advantage to using a crossbow, the lack of movement drawing the bow is the main advantage.  Put an animal 10 yards from a crossbow hunter versus a compound or stick hunter and I'll pretty much guarantee the animal will not see the safety come off on the crossbow.

Another advantage is that a bow, whether it be a compound or more "traditional" style, takes much more practice for a person to become proficient.  My crossbow took me about ten shots to be comfortable hitting the bullseye up to 40 yards.  Plus the fact that you can rest a crossbow over a log or on shooting sticks whereas a bow has to be held aloft to fire gives another advantage.

My crossbow is not one of the uber powerful ones so does not have a slighty subsonic speed, but some can certainly outperform a bow that the average person can draw (50-70 pounds).

Now, once again having said that, I have no problems with truly disabled folks from using a crossbow during archery season.  Not that I necessarily agree with this, but WI allows all archers over 65 (or somewhere around there) to use a crossbow during the archery season.  It does make me wonder at the "fairness" though since they don't allow kids or small women to use them.  Presumably they can't draw a bow because of their age or size, so what's the difference?  Of course, they also have a lot more of the resource (deer in this case) to go around.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 12:53:54 PM »
Why do archers have an issue? Just ask them!  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I think its just one of those things.....the world of flinging arrows has changed so much in a short time. Just as Radsav. I think that many archers are passionate about their method whether it be compound or traditional and like all things we are passionate about they will fight to keep them the same way they like them. Sometimes that results in "infighting", as it does with many other factions of hunters.
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Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 01:03:58 PM »
Lokidog, True, being able to remove the safety instead of drawing back the arrow is an advantage.  Massive advantage though?  I guess it depends on how sloppily you draw back your arrow.  And trying to find a log to rest against isn't always handy either.  I tried lugging around a hunting stick but the extra weight wasn't worth it.  I've killed many deer with my two older compounds before being diagnosed with ALS and the subsequent loss of use of my right arm and shoulder.  Being able to draw and kill a deer was what really attracted me to the sport.  And after learning how was quite easy.  Once I was close enough to shoot I never lost the shot because the deer saw me draw.  And like I asked before, isn't archery all about getting close, trying to outsmart the animal and the experience?  If just killing the animal and harvesting the meat is all a person is worried about then any means of harvesting would suffice.  Once again the main reason of switching to using a crossbow was my illness and the desire to maintain that connection with archery.  Otherwise we'd all hunt with rifles wouldn't we? 

Also, I shoot the 2013 Tenpoint Titan Extreme and my brother hunts with a PSE Stinger 3G set at 50#'s and he can shoot just as tight of a group as me and can shoot out farther with more accuracy.  So I'm not really convinced that crossbows offer a huge advantage.

h20hunter, that's my take on all of this.  I think it's okay for archers to believe that there is only one way to hunt archery.  It's when those folks try and limit how others hunt that upsets me.  Why would anyone want to do that?    Archers need to stick together and help protect all archery hunting opportunities.  Not just the one that is popular with one subgroup.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 01:08:24 PM »
Not just archers buddy.....atv'rs, rifle shooters, duck blasters, long rangers, compounders....
Yes, my FJ is pink, I'm all about Team Jacob, beer is not for the horses nor is whiskey for the men, they are both for me.

Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 02:02:01 PM »
Very true h20hunter!!

Offline GBoyd

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 05:44:55 PM »
So you think crossbows should be allowed for all hunters in the archery season?

I definitely don't, for purely selfish reasons. I would prefer to hunt with a stick bow, but I usually carry my compound because I don't want to have worse chances than the next guy. If crossbows are legal I'm going to have to go out and buy another weapon.

For the guys with a bum shoulder though, a crossbow is the only way to archery hunt, so I support that.

Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 09:30:04 PM »
Not at all GBoyd.  I hope everyone can understand that I'd prefer to still be toting around my compound.  I just didn't understand the heart burn for allowing disabled persons to hunt with crossbows.  I think I can understand better now.  More or less a general lack of understanding being disabled and how crossbows should be used and how difficult they actually are to drag around.  My hope is that the entire archery community would get that and lay off disabled archery hunters who choose to hunt with a crossbow.

Offline GBoyd

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 10:09:24 PM »
Oh. Sorry people have given you trouble about in the past, but I don't think there's any problem here. Everybody seems to agree that disable hunters should be allowed to use them.

Offline lokidog

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 10:36:41 PM »
Not at all GBoyd.  I hope everyone can understand that I'd prefer to still be toting around my compound.  I just didn't understand the heart burn for allowing disabled persons to hunt with crossbows.  I think I can understand better now.  More or less a general lack of understanding being disabled and how crossbows should be used and how difficult they actually are to drag around.  My hope is that the entire archery community would get that and lay off disabled archery hunters who choose to hunt with a crossbow.

I have seen noone, including myself, that has said that truly disabled hunters should not be able to use a crossbow during archery season.  You are trying to make an argument where none seems to exist.   :dunno:

Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 09:39:25 AM »
lokidog check out previous crossbow feeds.  Hopefully none exists now. 

Offline lokidog

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 09:14:21 PM »
lokidog check out previous crossbow feeds.  Hopefully none exists now.

Please show me examples (I truly am curious, not being snarky), I have read many crossbow threads, and let  my opinion be know, but have not noticed any negativity toward truly disable crossbow users.

Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2015, 05:28:40 PM »
I know I have been accused of being an "elitist" because I use a recurve and take a "traditional archery" stance on almost all issues, even though I instruct NASP (Mathews Genesis Compounds)
Crossbows have been around longer than compounds.
I have nothing against handicapped hunters using crossbows during archery seasons, but feel that non-handicapped hunters should only be allowed to use them during modern seasons.
This is because (as previously stated, the act of drawing the bow is inherant to our archery season)
I have met several hunters with crossbows, and had no issue with them.
I do have an issue with the constant complaining by those that want to change the rules on equipment because they are unhappy with what they are using.
If you are handicapped, youth or senior I see nothing wrong with making allowances, even heartily support extra tags, reduces fees, and special seasons.
But if you are not handicapped, then I feel you should quit making excuses about your equipment and use a weapon you are capable with, not change the rules to fit your capabilities.

Do you hear arguments that steroids, underinflated balls, and other forms of "cheating" should be allowed in other sports?
Lets change the rules because it suits a few, and to heck with what has been established as allowable, or restrictive in the past.  :'(
Archery, and Muzzleloaders used to hunt during general seasons.
Due to the restrictive nature of the weapons they were given special seasons and units.
Then "resource allocation" made us choose what weapon we hunted with.
This caused a "grass is greener" mentality and jealousy and controversy drove a wedge between user groups.
I do not judge a person by what he hunts with, but on his/her attitude and behavior.
(NOT SAYING THIS ABOUT THE O/P OR ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR!!!)
You can use lighted nocks, expandable broadheads, and crossbows, or complain about not being able to use closed breach, 209 primers, scopes (on ML) etc.,
but if you cannot harvest an animal without complaining about too restrictive regulations on your equipment, you  should take up golf.
But then probably complain about the weight/design of the balls, clubs, etc..
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 07:22:39 PM by STIKNSTRINGBOW »
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Offline BABackcountryBwhntr

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2015, 03:23:39 PM »
h20hunter thank you for your reply.  I hate that the crossbow needs to be cocked and ready.  Along with it being cumbersome it is definitely a real hazard for hunting partners.  Weapon safety is paramount!  Problem is I have to use a crank to cock the crossbow.  It takes about 30 seconds or so to load the darn thing.  It wouldn't be feasible to load once you've called in an elk. 

There really is no advantage to using a crossbow.  It's just a tool to keep archery hunters hunting.

I'm sorry, but I disagree completely, there is a massive advantage to using a crossbow, the lack of movement drawing the bow is the main advantage.  Put an animal 10 yards from a crossbow hunter versus a compound or stick hunter and I'll pretty much guarantee the animal will not see the safety come off on the crossbow.

Another advantage is that a bow, whether it be a compound or more "traditional" style, takes much more practice for a person to become proficient.  My crossbow took me about ten shots to be comfortable hitting the bullseye up to 40 yards.  Plus the fact that you can rest a crossbow over a log or on shooting sticks whereas a bow has to be held aloft to fire gives another advantage.

My crossbow is not one of the uber powerful ones so does not have a slighty subsonic speed, but some can certainly outperform a bow that the average person can draw (50-70 pounds).

Now, once again having said that, I have no problems with truly disabled folks from using a crossbow during archery season.  Not that I necessarily agree with this, but WI allows all archers over 65 (or somewhere around there) to use a crossbow during the archery season.  It does make me wonder at the "fairness" though since they don't allow kids or small women to use them.  Presumably they can't draw a bow because of their age or size, so what's the difference?  Of course, they also have a lot more of the resource (deer in this case) to go around.


Exactly this, is is 100% easier to be able to kill with a x bow, and it gives you unfair advantages... one of the hardest parts of bowhunting is knowing when to draw and having to hold at full draw for minutes at times.....
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Offline BoArcher

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2015, 09:36:27 AM »
Thank you all for your input.  I really appreciate that all of your posts were civil and insightful.  I understand that archery hunters would like to keep the sport as true as possible.  And that that definition is different for each of us individually. 

The main purpose for  my question was my lack of understanding as to why a few archers were saying that they felt once someone was disabled that they should switch to other hunting methods instead of being able to use a crossbow.  I am not advocating that crossbows should be allowed across the board during archery season.  And I'm not sure why anyone would want to.  Believe me when I say I'd much rather be able to use my compound still.  I just can't understand how someone who isn't disabled could say what they would do if faced with having to be excluded from a sport because they couldn't pull a bow back anymore.

Anyway, I appreciate the support from y'all that posted and wish the best to all of you!  And I hope that everyone of you continue to enjoy getting out into the woods with arrows for as lowing as you can.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2015, 12:12:01 PM »
The main purpose for  my question was my lack of understanding as to why a few archers were saying that they felt once someone was disabled that they should switch to other hunting methods instead of being able to use a crossbow.

 :hello:
Some people might have a hard time understanding why people want to invent a new hunting method or set of rules when they are capable of hunting with an existing method.

It's a difficult subject.  I tend to side with lokidog.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2015, 12:48:29 PM »
Not at all GBoyd.  I hope everyone can understand that I'd prefer to still be toting around my compound.  I just didn't understand the heart burn for allowing disabled persons to hunt with crossbows.  I think I can understand better now.  More or less a general lack of understanding being disabled and how crossbows should be used and how difficult they actually are to drag around.  My hope is that the entire archery community would get that and lay off disabled archery hunters who choose to hunt with a crossbow.

I have seen noone, including myself, that has said that truly disabled hunters should not be able to use a crossbow during archery season.  You are trying to make an argument where none seems to exist.   :dunno:

 :yeah:
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Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

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Re: crossbow use
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2015, 06:49:00 PM »
Quote
The main purpose for  my question was my lack of understanding as to why a few archers were saying that they felt once someone was disabled that they should switch to other hunting methods instead of being able to use a crossbow
Not my thought, as far as I am concerned, do what you love.. I accept the handicapped, youth, senior, etc..
Just not an able bodied person that finds the challenge too much for their abilities that they need to make it easier or use a more advantageous type of equipment.
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FS Savage/Stevens 200 30-06 200$ by kukusya
[Today at 03:43:12 PM]


WTS: Kifaru Mountain Rambler by davk
[Today at 03:33:55 PM]


F/S Deer horn lamp by Jermshooter
[Today at 03:32:57 PM]