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Author Topic: Bear Spray or Handgun  (Read 13368 times)

Offline Cougartail

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2016, 04:45:07 PM »
Keep in mind good bear spray is like 100xs stronger than people pepper spray.  It is downright dangerous stuff.  Plus its hard to miss just remember to spray at ground in front of animal charge.

Wrong! Bear spray is about 1 to 2 percent capsicum. Human spray is 10% plus capsicum.
 Nice try..
Sorry Bud but you aren't educated enough to "inform me". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray  Its also illegal to use on Humans as its so potent and can damage eyes easily.

Gee. My canister of defensive spray says 10%. I must be the only guy on the planet who owns the spray with 10% capsicum. lol
Here's a tip for you internet jockeys. Don't trust Wikipedia. It is written often times by other uniformed internet jockeys..

Offline Cougartail

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2016, 04:52:19 PM »
Cougar I think you cant see the decimal in front of your quoted 10%.  Its .1%  My point is spray is great!  AND a gun is real good.  Kinda like an airbag and a seatbelt..

Go to the Counter Assault website.. and get back to me. lol

Offline Bob33

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2016, 04:57:47 PM »
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2016, 05:02:08 PM »
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2016, 05:14:53 PM »
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Mudman

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2016, 05:29:46 PM »
Cougar I think you cant see the decimal in front of your quoted 10%.  Its .1%  My point is spray is great!  AND a gun is real good.  Kinda like an airbag and a seatbelt..

Go to the Counter Assault website.. and get back to me. lol
I think you are the only one with 10%.  Counterassault is a BEAR SPRAY!  You sure it doesn't say 10oz.???
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2016, 05:35:05 PM »
my bear spray is 1.1%

Offline Mudman

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2016, 05:37:08 PM »
You'all a victim of advertisement gimmicks.  Counterassault 10% is a play on words. Actually just over 1% capsaicum. http://www.amazon.com/Counter-Assault-Pepper-Spray/dp/B005JPTA48   If you doubt bear spray go spray yourself!  Promise its BAD!  I know what regular pepper spray is like and this is MUCH worse....
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Offline dscubame

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2016, 05:41:27 PM »
The bear spray fans...what if you are in a tent, or it's windy? I've been pepper sprayed and I'm completely disabled. I'll take the gun every time. I know a lot of guys who spend a lot of time in the Alaskan backcountry and none of them choose spray over side arm.

Alaska backcountry I will have my handgun for a multipurpose tool.  For bear as this OP questioned, spray all the way.
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Offline pashok23

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2016, 05:43:31 PM »

Offline pashok23

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2016, 05:48:44 PM »
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
or the even greater number of encounters that are not reported but a hunting  tag was slapped on.

Happened to me.  Was out hiking around checking trail cams and a young boar came at me, nailed him with my sidearm inside 3 yards.  It happened to be bear season and i had a tag in my pocket, so worked out pretty good.

Had the same deal.  Mine was shot at about 10 yards.  I seen him coming, and had my .44 mag on him before he saw me.  He stared at me for a moment and then headed straight for me.  Hard cast buffalo bore from a Ruger Redhawk does wonders!  Shot him in the chest and blew an enormous hole out his rear hip.  Pretty impressive really!
how big was the bear?

Offline Smossy's Girl

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2016, 05:49:16 PM »
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?

there's a spray...  :chuckle:
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Offline Mudman

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2016, 05:53:26 PM »
http://www.forgesurvivalsupply.com/store/p/112-UDAP-Bear-Spray-12.aspx       Here is a detailed explanation of the # used and how it can be used to fool customers.  Hope this helps clear up the misinformation regarding % strength vs concentration and scoville heat unit measurements...  I carry the UDAP 2% .
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Offline bradslam

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2016, 06:03:30 PM »
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.

I had a can of 10% capsicum burst on me that was sitting on the dash of my truck. I was able to drive back home and wash my eyes out. Skunk spray in the eyes was far worse.

I think I'd be ok with 1% or 2%. The fact that I wouldn't trust my life to spray isn't a "macho mentality" except maybe to "soft" males.

By the way I've sprayed plenty of dogs with 10%. Had a pair of Dobermans that weren't  impressed at all by spray. A bicycle pump over the head impressed them..

Thanks for reinforcing the macho mentality with your quote about "soft males", whatever that means.  BTW, I have been a firefighter for 15 years, and before that was a commercial fisherman in Alaska for 14 years.  Does that fit in with your definition?

Offline Cougartail

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2016, 06:16:59 PM »
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.

I had a can of 10% capsicum burst on me that was sitting on the dash of my truck. I was able to drive back home and wash my eyes out. Skunk spray in the eyes was far worse.

I think I'd be ok with 1% or 2%. The fact that I wouldn't trust my life to spray isn't a "macho mentality" except maybe to "soft" males.

By the way I've sprayed plenty of dogs with 10%. Had a pair of Dobermans that weren't  impressed at all by spray. A bicycle pump over the head impressed them..

Thanks for reinforcing the macho mentality with your quote about "soft males", whatever that means.  BTW, I have been a firefighter for 15 years, and before that was a commercial fisherman in Alaska for 14 years.  Does that fit in with your definition?

Means nothing to me. The biggest bunch of whine tits I've ever met was working King Crab on the Bering Sea. As for firefighter.. even less and I know many of them.
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 06:32:42 PM by Cougartail »

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2016, 06:27:25 PM »
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
But when you start your spray out at 30 ft for bear vs say 3 ft for humans, seems like the volume doesn't quite make up for it.  You would need 1,000 times the volume to make up the distance.

Offline Cougartail

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2016, 06:42:27 PM »
You'all a victim of advertisement gimmicks.  Counterassault 10% is a play on words. Actually just over 1% capsaicum. http://www.amazon.com/Counter-Assault-Pepper-Spray/dp/B005JPTA48   If you doubt bear spray go spray yourself!  Promise its BAD!  I know what regular pepper spray is like and this is MUCH worse....

Here is an experiment for you. Take 2% by volume H202 (hydrogen peroxide) and stick your finger in it. Now stick your finger in 28% by volume H2O2.
The H2O2 molecule is the same in both solutions but the 2% does little to your skin and the 28% burns your skin right off.

This is the difference between concentration and the difference between 2% by volume capsicum and 10% by volume capsicum.

Offline Annette

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2016, 06:52:06 PM »
I had a biologist tell me that bear spray doesn't work on cougars..... my beretta will work on both...

I hunt therefor I am an endangered species

Offline Bob33

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2016, 07:02:22 PM »
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
But when you start your spray out at 30 ft for bear vs say 3 ft for humans, seems like the volume doesn't quite make up for it.  You would need 1,000 times the volume to make up the distance.
I'm not a bear, but they have one of the best noses of all wild animals. How many particles of OC in their nose and eyes are necessary to deter one is the question.
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Offline Mudman

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2016, 07:12:38 PM »

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC. UDAPís Bear Deterrent is rated at the maximum the EPA recommends, on which is 2.0%. This produces about 3 million Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) of stopping power. Our Bear Deterrents contain about 10% OC. This 10% is a measurement of the OC in the can, not the hotness of the spray. The EPA does NOT recognize nor allow labeling the measurement of bear spray hotness by OC or SHU ratings. The latest most accurate means accepted for evaluating true hotness is by testing the amount of CRCs present in a spray. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC --20% are active ingredients


UDAPís personal sprays are rated at 1.34% CRC, which is the same rating as our bear sprays were in the years preceding 1999. This produces about 2 million SHUs of stopping power. Our personal sprays contain about 10% OC, also again the primary deciding factor of hotness in a pepper spray is the CRC rating. The active chemicals in OC are Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids (CRC), making this the only true determining factor for active ingredients in pepper sprays. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC Ė13.4% are active ingredients 



Hope this helps you understand.  If its to complicated then I defer and you are correct..
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Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2016, 07:20:57 PM »

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC. UDAPís Bear Deterrent is rated at the maximum the EPA recommends, on which is 2.0%. This produces about 3 million Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) of stopping power. Our Bear Deterrents contain about 10% OC. This 10% is a measurement of the OC in the can, not the hotness of the spray. The EPA does NOT recognize nor allow labeling the measurement of bear spray hotness by OC or SHU ratings. The latest most accurate means accepted for evaluating true hotness is by testing the amount of CRCs present in a spray. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC --20% are active ingredients


UDAPís personal sprays are rated at 1.34% CRC, which is the same rating as our bear sprays were in the years preceding 1999. This produces about 2 million SHUs of stopping power. Our personal sprays contain about 10% OC, also again the primary deciding factor of hotness in a pepper spray is the CRC rating. The active chemicals in OC are Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids (CRC), making this the only true determining factor for active ingredients in pepper sprays. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC Ė13.4% are active ingredients 



Hope this helps you understand.  If its to complicated then I defer and you are correct..

huh??? 

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2016, 08:21:02 AM »
I own both.  Both have their place. 

I am a little amused reading this thread though  :chuckle:
Question:  To everyone saying " have you ever been sprayed?  That stuff is powerful! ".  I would respond  " have you ever been shot in the chest with buffalo bore hard cast from a .44 mag?".   :hello:   :chuckle:

Just use the one makes you feel safer.  Really either one's primary purpose is a placebo effect.  I just enjoy the mountains more when I am packing.   :twocents:

Offline Seahawk12

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2016, 08:28:27 AM »
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?

there's a spray...  :chuckle:

HAHAHA!!! That was funny. They keep saying that it was because he must have been allergic and that's why the neutralizer didn't work. I wonder if any of them volunteered to go next?
 
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Offline Cougartail

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2016, 08:48:01 AM »

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC.


Cut and pasting of ignorant statements like this tells me you know nothing of chemistry, biochemistry or physiology.

Sorry, Capsaicin and  the other capsaicinoids have no "Chemical Heat".

Having studied human physiology for 20+ years, not to mention the 6 years in a biological lab, I stopped reading your cut & paste after the first sentence.

Please explain to me, if Capsaicin has "chemical heat" why birds aren't effected by Capsaicin and it causes no cellular damage due to burn.

Offline WapitiTalk1

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Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2016, 08:53:53 AM »
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray? 
there's a spray...  :chuckle:

Poor sucker.  I've had my share of Army CS Gas experiences and it's no fun. 
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