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Author Topic: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info  (Read 4508 times)

Offline wheels

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mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« on: January 13, 2017, 10:12:57 AM »
i was just listening to to podcast(meat eater) and he had the founder for rocky mountain goat alliance and he was saying the biggest thing brings down or keeps down  the numbers is the taking of a nanny he was pitching some kind of education and info to tell the difference between billy and a  nanny  i think good idea  maybe something like the  bear test  for other states .
thoughts ?

Offline Tbar

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 10:16:29 AM »
Alaska has an online test, should be adopted by Wa. Lack of education is the number one reason so many nannies get harvested in this state.

Offline Katmai Guy

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 10:18:16 AM »
Not sure if the harvest of nannys is due to mis identification or the fact that a person has drawn an OIL tag and has only seen nannys or cant get to the billies and decides to shoot one.   It is an Any goat tag.
"Keep shootin, when there's lead in the air, there's hope"

Offline Tbar

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Offline Tbar

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 10:29:06 AM »
Not sure if the harvest of nannys is due to mis identification or the fact that a person has drawn an OIL tag and has only seen nannys or cant get to the billies and decides to shoot one.   It is an Any goat tag.
One of the reasons is an any goat tag is because of the difficulty identifying .  If you care about conservation and hope some day it will not be an oil tag, the wise thing to do is lay off of nannies whenever possible. 

Offline zoorda

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 09:50:23 AM »
When I drew my Mt Goat tag in 2015 in Washington, I was given a goat gender identification pamphlet and a dvd with the test. They were labeled Alaskan Fish and Game.

Offline wheels

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 10:10:25 AM »
oh that is good to hear

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM »
Good words TBar.  I think a loot of tag holders just think its not quite as condoned when shooting a nanny vs a billy, even though being perfectly legal. Kind of like shooting a sow without cubs.  The shooting of a nanny when it comes to computer modeling and population dynamics has a big effect on future tag allocation where tags are slim and mt. goat reproduction is slow.
"A lazy man works twice as hard"

Offline Katmai Guy

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 04:36:16 PM »
I'm all for a Billies only tag, but it will never be more that an OIL in WA due to the fact that naturally occurring populations as we have here grow slower than introduced  populations according to a study I found online.  If I have time I'll try to find it, was interesting.
  Also goes back to to many hunters, not enough animals. :twocents:
"Keep shootin, when there's lead in the air, there's hope"

Offline RB

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 11:12:40 PM »
When I drew my Mt Goat tag in 2015 in Washington, I was given a goat gender identification pamphlet and a dvd with the test. They were labeled Alaskan Fish and Game.

 :yeah:

Me too  :)
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Offline RB

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 11:20:39 PM »
Not sure if the harvest of nannys is due to mis identification or the fact that a person has drawn an OIL tag and has only seen nannys or cant get to the billies and decides to shoot one.   It is an Any goat tag.
One of the reasons is an any goat tag is because of the difficulty identifying .  If you care about conservation and hope some day it will not be an oil tag, the wise thing to do is lay off of nannies whenever possible.

If a guy has the time it is fairly easy  to identify a Billy using a spotting scope, wait for him to turn and look for the scrotum. Look at diameter at base of horns and curvature, nannies turn slightly at the ends. In Washington there are very few tags and odds are even if there are 2-3 tags in the area not every tag holder is going to be on the same ridge at the same time, so it should be fairly easy to take your time and know 100% it is a Billy.  :twocents:
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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 09:24:31 AM »
Agreed RB.  It sure should be with minimal effort.  Pretty amazing how many nannies have been killed in our region the past few years.  A couple of them I know were mistakes but wonder if the others simply didn't know or didn't care...  Either way it's a personal decision but definitely affects the management of a fragile species when harvest data is entered...
"A lazy man works twice as hard"

Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 10:37:57 AM »
It still happens, ID is fairly easy in most circumstances but there are times when it is not as easy as sitting back with your spotter and making the determination. I know on Baranof Is. when they went to a point quota after a couple years harvest had shifted much more heavily toward billys but there were still instances where people still shot nannys. Some just did not care while others still had a hard time telling even after the ID training they made available and I know of a few instances where the hunter was experienced and just made a mistake.

Another factor down here is age of the hunter and the fact someone has been throwing in their $ for 20+ years and finally draws that OIL. Most of those people are gonna shoot whatever is available because they will may never get a second chance. My observations of a small cross section of the tag holders has been they are not even really into hunting anymore, they just sent in their application every year like a lottery ticket. If they get a 3-year old nanny they are stoked!

Offline jackelope

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 11:38:06 AM »
Not sure if the harvest of nannys is due to mis identification or the fact that a person has drawn an OIL tag and has only seen nannys or cant get to the billies and decides to shoot one.   It is an Any goat tag.
One of the reasons is an any goat tag is because of the difficulty identifying .  If you care about conservation and hope some day it will not be an oil tag, the wise thing to do is lay off of nannies whenever possible.

If a guy has the time it is fairly easy  to identify a Billy using a spotting scope, wait for him to turn and look for the scrotum. Look at diameter at base of horns and curvature, nannies turn slightly at the ends. In Washington there are very few tags and odds are even if there are 2-3 tags in the area not every tag holder is going to be on the same ridge at the same time, so it should be fairly easy to take your time and know 100% it is a Billy.  :twocents:

Wait for them to pee is the 100% way to tell if you can't see the balls.

Not sure if the harvest of nannys is due to mis identification or the fact that a person has drawn an OIL tag and has only seen nannys or cant get to the billies and decides to shoot one.   It is an Any goat tag.
One of the reasons is an any goat tag is because of the difficulty identifying .  If you care about conservation and hope some day it will not be an oil tag, the wise thing to do is lay off of nannies whenever possible. 
Well said.
If it was a billy only tag, it would be a crime if someone killed a nanny and that's the problem I guess. Proper ID is tough. Just like bears...you have to know what you're looking at in order to tell boar or sow.

 
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" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline jackelope

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Re: mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 11:39:30 AM »
Agreed RB.  It sure should be with minimal effort.  Pretty amazing how many nannies have been killed in our region the past few years.  A couple of them I know were mistakes but wonder if the others simply didn't know or didn't care...  Either way it's a personal decision but definitely affects the management of a fragile species when harvest data is entered...

Someone sees a goat and has a OIL tag in their pocket and just wants to fill it. Sees a goat, sees big horns, gets excited, doesn't want to risk losing the shot opportunity, don't care if it's a nanny or a billy as long as they fill their tag, greed, etc.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

 

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