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Author Topic: Any Pudelpointer owners?  (Read 8255 times)

Offline swanny

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Any Pudelpointer owners?
« on: February 02, 2017, 08:49:42 AM »
Was recently turned on to the breed and they have me intrigued. They appear to be great size 45-70 pounds and the best of both worlds for upland and waterfowl. On top of that everyone says they are great family dogs. So is it true? Anyone have experience with them?

Offline Shannon

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 09:29:48 AM »
I have three and addictedtohunting has one with I believe maybe another coming soon. I was a lab guy before but  I won't own another breed now. Ask away and I'll try to answer any questions. Either here or PM.

Offline swanny

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 09:34:54 AM »
I have three and addictedtohunting has one with I believe maybe another coming soon. I was a lab guy before but  I won't own another breed now. Ask away and I'll try to answer any questions. Either here or PM.

Wow, good to know. I've always been a lab guy myself, but have been interested in a GSP also. Was told it was a quality mix of both breed types, and I have to admit I just love the look of them.

How are they around kids and other people, well mannered and mild temper? We attempted to help in the re-homing process of a Viszla at one point but it was to attached to being just my wife and I, hated having other people around to the point where it would growl and snap at them for no reason.

Are your dogs from the same breeder? Looks like all of the local ones sort of work together with their breeding stock.

Offline JLS

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 10:02:41 AM »
I have three and addictedtohunting has one with I believe maybe another coming soon. I was a lab guy before but  I won't own another breed now. Ask away and I'll try to answer any questions. Either here or PM.

Wow, good to know. I've always been a lab guy myself, but have been interested in a GSP also. Was told it was a quality mix of both breed types, and I have to admit I just love the look of them.

How are they around kids and other people, well mannered and mild temper? We attempted to help in the re-homing process of a Viszla at one point but it was to attached to being just my wife and I, hated having other people around to the point where it would growl and snap at them for no reason.

Are your dogs from the same breeder? Looks like all of the local ones sort of work together with their breeding stock.

That's a bummer to hear about the Viszla.  My guess is those behaviors were likely due to environment rather than breed specific.  The dog probably was not socialized well as a puppy and was left alone a lot.  Hard to say.

I think you will find many of the versatile breeds can and will be fantastic family dogs given the right environment.  They are very smart, and young children can have a difficult time getting them to mind and behave.  Mine is a completely different dog when I am around vs. when he is with my kids and/or wife.  Consistency and some time spent training are key.
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Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 09:23:30 PM »
The easiest to train and best, most versatile dog for all owners will always be a well bred lab. "variety" breeds are never well suited to novice dog trainers with family obligations regardless of what the breeders tell you and the breed websites promote.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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Offline ForestDump

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 11:54:09 PM »
They're nice dogs, was out in the field pheasant hunting with one this past season alongside my dogs. My only thing is the price tag that comes with those dogs. Whole hunk of coin for a dog that does everything the rest of em do. But good looking dogs and a lot of drive. Will find and pick up birds for you.
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Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 01:38:05 AM »
Yep got my second coming in April. My PP will do it all from sitting in frozen water and breaking ice to retrieve all the way to hunting chukar on the Columbia breaks. I've yet to find a lab that will beat him to a retrieve in any condition. As for trainability, they are incredibly intelligent and love to please. He was my first dog that I tried to train myself and it's been a fun journey. They are very fun and clownish in demeanor and love their family.
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Offline kball4

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 06:24:44 AM »
My is about to turn 1, easiest dog to train I've ever had. 

Offline swanny

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2017, 09:14:52 AM »
Thanks for all the info, really appreciated!

Offline Shannon

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2017, 11:56:33 AM »
I don't believe in Happy's comment. They are easy to train IMO. There is a lot to train with a good versatile, more so than just retrieving games, if you want your dog steady to wing,shot, and fall. I wouldn't consider a lab a versatile breed but more of a specialist. Yes they will hunt many types of birds but they aren't considered a versatile breed. I like labs also but I get a rush when my dogs are running full bore across a field and slam on point and hold it like a statue until I get there. Hard to describe until you've seen it in person. At maturity my dogs retrieve just as good as any lab I've ever owned with a little more style in doing it. Labs as puppies are better at marking and retrieving at a young age. At least the ones I have trained but after 12 months or so the Pudelpointers catch up.
A PP is cheaper than a well bred lab also. You might have to wait longer for a Pudelpointer though. All of my dogs are from Cedarwoods Kennels. Hopefully that helps.

Offline JLS

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2017, 12:03:32 PM »
I don't believe in Happy's comment. They are easy to train IMO. There is a lot to train with a good versatile, more so than just retrieving games, if you want your dog steady to wing,shot, and fall. I wouldn't consider a lab a versatile breed but more of a specialist. Yes they will hunt many types of birds but they aren't considered a versatile breed. I like labs also but I get a rush when my dogs are running full bore across a field and slam on point and hold it like a statue until I get there. Hard to describe until you've seen it in person. At maturity my dogs retrieve just as good as any lab I've ever owned with a little more style in doing it. Labs as puppies are better at marking and retrieving at a young age. At least the ones I have trained but after 12 months or so the Pudelpointers catch up.
A PP is cheaper than a well bred lab also. You might have to wait longer for a Pudelpointer though. All of my dogs are from Cedarwoods Kennels. Hopefully that helps.

I don't want to get into a dog breed debate, but I agree 110% on your statements.  I would prefer a versatile dog any day of the week over a lab, and I've had both.  To each their own.
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Offline Colin

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 02:13:56 PM »
Yep got my second coming in April. My PP will do it all from sitting in frozen water and breaking ice to retrieve all the way to hunting chukar on the Columbia breaks. I've yet to find a lab that will beat him to a retrieve in any condition. As for trainability, they are incredibly intelligent and love to please. He was my first dog that I tried to train myself and it's been a fun journey. They are very fun and clownish in demeanor and love their family.
Now we gonna have to have a race! Lol

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Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 04:59:57 PM »
Im sure we will have a chance this spring Colin! lol :chuckle:
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Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 05:03:28 PM »
I gotta get Cedars PZ 1 UT in navhda this spring then Imma get with you Colin and see how Andy got you going on blinds so I can start running Seasoned.
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Offline Colin

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2017, 07:20:41 PM »
I gotta get Cedars PZ 1 UT in navhda this spring then Imma get with you Colin and see how Andy got you going on blinds so I can start running Seasoned.
Any time you're more than welcome. No promises on my teaching though.

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Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2017, 11:22:52 AM »
Having lived at a kennel for years which focused on pointing dogs and being pretty deep in the retriever world, the majority of problem dogs are variety breeds. It's basic, there are few breeders which gives you few options and even fewer dogs to view from parents as a baseline. I've seen a lot of low desire pp's, spinones and some downright nasty attitude draughts and whp's.

This isn't a my dog can do this better than your dog comment. Just what I've seen over time. Guys like Shannon know what he's doing training. Average new comer, its a bad idea. Labs are the most versatile, easy to get and capable dogs for all conditions. Not to mention, the ability to get a good bill of health is easiest and lowest cost.

Safety in numbers is a reality in breedings.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2017, 12:07:23 PM »
Having lived at a kennel for years which focused on pointing dogs and being pretty deep in the retriever world, the majority of problem dogs are variety breeds. It's basic, there are few breeders which gives you few options and even fewer dogs to view from parents as a baseline. I've seen a lot of low desire pp's, spinones and some downright nasty attitude draughts and whp's.

This isn't a my dog can do this better than your dog comment. Just what I've seen over time. Guys like Shannon know what he's doing training. Average new comer, its a bad idea. Labs are the most versatile, easy to get and capable dogs for all conditions. Not to mention, the ability to get a good bill of health is easiest and lowest cost.

Safety in numbers is a reality in breedings.
A lot of low desire PP? I have seen a bunch of PPs in the NAVHDA program and id say 20% of them were slugs but the others by far have more desire than any lab I have seen in hunting and in the HRC arena. Versatility means it can do everything. the amount of labs that would duck hunt the AM in freezing temps then hunt the snake river breaks in the afternoon for chukar are very rare. Just in this state I could show you atleast 10 PPS that could do that. Labs are a specialist not a versatile dog. DDs and WPGs will be much more of a serious demeanor dog especially a german bred DD. They will also generally be a very fur sharp dog as well. Thats what they breed for in germany. Spinones I can say that yes they wont be even close to those standards for desire. PPs are by far the most intelligent sporting breed I have come across.
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Offline rasbo

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2017, 12:28:18 PM »
I would love to own one,but my are they pricey..I think they are awesome dogs for a guy that likes to do upland and waterfowl..

Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2017, 12:35:00 PM »
I would love to own one,but my are they pricey..I think they are awesome dogs for a guy that likes to do upland and waterfowl..
ya without a doubt they are spendy. The specialist breeds of course will shine more in their element but for a guy that wants to do all with the same dog, it is hard to beat.
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Offline Shannon

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2017, 02:42:29 PM »
I don't think $1200-$1400 for a well bred dog of any kind is expensive. I have a buddy that just spent $2,000 on a lab out of good blood lines and he said that was the going rate. I haven't bought a lab for 15+ years but aren't they in that 2K+ range for a dog out of a proven kennel with some titles in the pedigree and clear health? I'm not talking about back yard breeders.
Happy-I'm not going to get with the my dog breed is better than yours debate. I'm glad when people are passionate about what they have but to say you have seen lots of low desire pudelpointers I'll have to call BS. Unless you lived in or around Boise you aren't going to find lots of PP's anywhere especially at the kennel you worked at. I only know of less than 20 PP's in this state and I own three of them. Not saying I know them all but there are very few. I seek out PP's to watch run and I haven't seen lots of them anywhere. My dogs desire is high enough that I have to watch out for them that they don't kill themselves. Fanatical desire to retrieve especially if what they are after has fur or feathers. You stick with your labs and I'll stick with my Pudelpointers and we will both be happy. I just really enjoy watching pointing dogs lock up on point like statues with style until I go in for the flush. The only thing that tops the enjoyment I get out of that is watching my kids play sports. Labs never gave me that and never will. When I use them in the duck blind I don't have any drop off with the retrieves compared to any other breed I've ever owned. The  dash and happiness they get from the retrieve rivals or beats most labs I've been around. The pointing dog games I've done I get more enjoyment from than wearing white coats and throwing bumpers and ducks all day doing multiples and blinds at retriever games. To each there own but this former lab guy will not be getting another sporting breed other than a Pudelpointer any time soon. I do get enjoyment out of watching a retriever that is well trained do his business but that doesn't compare to me when I watch pointers at work. I just like watching well trained dogs period though. I get a kick out of watching sheep dogs do there thing in Sylvana when they have there test or trials or whatever they call them. Just stick with what you like but don't bash another breed especially when you have seen very few of them.

Offline Colin

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2017, 03:43:25 PM »
Isn't the difference between the two types or dogs, Upland and waterfowl based on the training? Imagine a well trained lab on a navda duck hunt. The lab would take a line from the handler, run through old falls, hit every piece of water on the line, blow through every piece of cover and maintain its line without hunting until it runs out the back of the field.

Idk seems like a lab trained for strictly Upland is at a huge disadvantage in the retriever games and a PP strictly trained for waterfowl will be at that same disadvantage in the Upland games. We train for different things regardless of the dog. Lab people want control and drive while PP people want independence and drive.

On dog prices I've been watching for lab pups a lot lately and there are lots of health clearance and MH/HRCH pups available for 1000 to 1200. Only time I've seen dogs listed at 2000 or more it was FC to an FC or NFC to MH/QAA. Think there was a recent NFC bred to a MH? As a repeat litter for 2500. I have no idea what the prices for PP'S with health clearances and national titles?

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Offline addicted2hunting

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2017, 06:55:50 PM »
Isn't the difference between the two types or dogs, Upland and waterfowl based on the training? Imagine a well trained lab on a navda duck hunt. The lab would take a line from the handler, run through old falls, hit every piece of water on the line, blow through every piece of cover and maintain its line without hunting until it runs out the back of the field.

Idk seems like a lab trained for strictly Upland is at a huge disadvantage in the retriever games and a PP strictly trained for waterfowl will be at that same disadvantage in the Upland games. We train for different things regardless of the dog. Lab people want control and drive while PP people want independence and drive.

On dog prices I've been watching for lab pups a lot lately and there are lots of health clearance and MH/HRCH pups available for 1000 to 1200. Only time I've seen dogs listed at 2000 or more it was FC to an FC or NFC to MH/QAA. Think there was a recent NFC bred to a MH? As a repeat litter for 2500. I have no idea what the prices for PP'S with health clearances and national titles?

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Training is a part of the versatility but PPs having English pointer in them will cover ground and hunt in a similar fashion in the upland and pointing with more style than a pointing lab would. And to add to that they have the water and retrieving drive that a waterfowler desires. They get that from the german hunting pudel. Where the lab lacks in the versatility realm is the inherent instinct to point birds and have the athletic endurance to handle long periods of covering ground in an extreme upland environment. But yes me training for retriever tests is counter productive to the versatile dog tests. That's why guys like me don't get heavy into the retriever tests until our navhda UT is done because you don't want to put too much control on a navhda dogs blind retrieve area because it'll hurt that score. But the navhda invitational is like the same stuff in a retriever test and a AKC upland test all in one without a independent duck search like in the utility. Instead the have a 100 yd blind across water to a duck drag that they have to track 30yds to find the bird. Doing this you want the dog to be able to handle like a retriever if they get off course.
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Offline constructeur

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 08:44:37 PM »
Alright Mr. Axe to grind, time for a history lesson.

I've seen a lot of low desire pp's,
No you haven't. If so name the kennels and dogs.

spinones and

D U D E. Really? You want to name an esoteric breed that was developed to work for small game birds on a seriously tiny parcel of land at a very very very slow pace (the developed areas of Italy!) and say that they are low desire? That's how they are supposed to be! When in Rome guy!

some downright nasty attitude draughts and whp's.

Yeah, well we've all seen those, and Teufel hunden are like that. That's what the Germans want and need and people buy them thinking they are getting the uber alles gun dog, and often they are buying way more dog than they will need or handle. But we aren't talking DD's and DK's right now are we?

There are lots of great labs out there and lots of good dogs and great folks running HRC, but the harsh truth is that none of the large sanctions recognize the lab as a versatile breed, and the foundation breeds of the Pudelpointer lend itself to a dog that is both faster afoot, and will have a longer time durability in a true upland hunt (not that planted bird flat ground stuff) We have a much milder climate than the midwest, so the coat thickness when waterfowling is really a non issue as well. I've seen so many versatiles that will flat out blow the doors off labs in the water it's not even a real talking point any longer.

Like it or not, with information being available to more folks today, the sun has set on the Labrador Retriever being the zenith of gun dogs. They're still a great dog and option, but they are no longer the top.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 08:54:42 PM by constructeur »

Offline Colin

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 09:21:28 PM »
We will have to agree to disagree as I don't think a top level PP is gonna out retrieve a top level lab. The blind work you are comparing is apples and oranges and is very different than how a lab is trained to handle on a blind. Who knows maybe I'm wrong as i have only seen 2 PP's run marks.


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Offline Colin

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Re: Any Pudelpointer owners?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 09:37:23 PM »
I don't think a lab will ever beat a veritable breed in upland hunting. There may be great upland labs but the best veristiles are gonna beat a the best lab.
Strictly talking waterfowling I don't think a veristile is going to beat a lab, if only because they are trained so differently. In a straight marking scenario a solid veristile can match a solid lab at hunt test distances but running blinds a trained lab is going to have a significant advantage due to its training if we are judging to test/trial standards. If I hunted upland I'd have a pointer. I only hunt waterfowl so I have a lab... just my thoughts as we are all probably missing hunting season right now and getting all ramped up for our respective training seasons.

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