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Author Topic: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story  (Read 6914 times)

Offline fireweed

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2017, 08:43:30 AM »
Do you not understand why the timber company's greatly prefer letting in a few select guys rather than a pile of boot hunters to kill off the amount of bears they need killed?
Of course timber companies greatly prefer it, but bears are an asset of the people and  are supposed to be managed by the state for the benefit of everyone in the state, even if big timber is inconvenienced.   

Offline singleshot12

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2017, 12:11:53 PM »
Debate about it all you want. The fact is it is a political game like everything else. The license buying boot hunter gets the short end of the stick again. This state is backwards and keeps getting worse. Huggers with their ill minded agenda's and corporate tree farms that only care about profit :twocents:
NATURE HAS A WAY

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Offline Special T

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Debate about it all you want. The fact is it is a political game like everything else. The license buying boot hunter gets the short end of the stick again. This state is backwards and keeps getting worse. Huggers with their ill minded agenda's and corporate tree farms that only care about profit :twocents:
You would think that the department would want to sell a couple hundred more spring bear permits to bring in some more cash...

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Offline singleshot12

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2017, 12:19:43 PM »
You would think!  But everything is so damn political that logic is gone with the wind.
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Offline seth30

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2017, 02:37:18 PM »
My Ex wife's coworkers husband did that for the timber companies I believe.  When he told me about it, I thought it was all BS and trying to sound cool.  :bash:
Rather be dead than cool.
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2017, 07:12:54 PM »
I really don't blame the timber companies. Bears can easily damage 3% of the trees in a stand. add that up over 30 years and there is nothing left. Especially bad for a small land owner if a bear camps out on his land.
A guy I worked for at one time has 160 acres that abut FS land. Just off his land there is a big stump that bears den under. Every year a sow spends the winter there and when she comes out with cubs she pretty much lives off his trees. The damage has really taken a toll. He tried hound hunters but they would chase the bear back far enough to where they were required to quit it and the bear would practically beat them back after they rounded the dogs up. He killed one bear in 5 years.
Finally hired USDA to snare his land and they killed I think 5 the first year.
You can complain about the hound guys if you want but if they don't thin the bear out USDA is going to come in. I know most bear damage complaints in OR are taken care of by snaring. I know the guy that does a large percentage of it.

IMO the problem is not the hound guys or the land owners or WDFW for that matter. It is the law. Change the law and the problem gets fixed. The way it is WDFWs hands are tied.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2017, 01:56:53 PM »
It isn't a loophole, as it is specifically written into the law. I am one of the hunters that targets these bears.  I don't use hounds, but I do spend hundreds of hours a year in the woods from April until the end of June. Also, I am acting as an agent of the state when I am out there.   The properties I assist with do not belong to large companies like WEYCO, Green Diamond, or Intl. Paper.  The properties I protect belong to small forest landowners, usually around 150-250 acres.  We also work very closely with WDFW conflict management specialists, as well as enforcement.  It isn't a willy nilly operation like Alison Morrow makes it out to be.  There is no pay for me for my time.  The landowners do not get reimbursed for damage like other AG producers, so it is all on us.

We are very good at what we do, it is all volunteer, and it is a *censored* ton of work.  I found damage on May 14th this year, and the next day we had that bear on the ground, 450 yards from the damage site.  When WDFW bios came to the kill site we opened the stomach and found cambium in its gut.

On one tree farm in May 2015 I found 45 trees damaged in a single day.  Left unchecked, the damage can be catastrophic to small forest land owners.  How much would 45 mature doug fir trees be worth?  How many board feet of timber is that?  Multiply that times 30-45 days of the peeling season, and the impact gets bigger, quickly.

Also remember that depredation hunting, taking out problem animals, is not meant to be a fair chase situation.  Do you want a problem cougar to be left to roam after picking off pets and livestock, or do you want it dealt with as immediately as possible?  It is a very targeted type of hunting meant to mitigate current or future damage.  Nothing more, nothing less.   

As to the bloodlust comments, well, I have an active bear on a property that has had significant damage in the past.  The thing is there has been no damage this year on this property.  In talking with the landowner the other day they asked about progress with the bear.  I told them that while there is a bear on the property, it is eating grass and other foods, and not peeling trees, so I didn't see a need to drop him.  They agreed.  If I run into him, it may be a bad day for him, but in the mean time I'll continue to check the property every other day, without pay, and see what my trail cameras reveal, and hope for no damage.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 02:06:49 PM by dogfish »

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2017, 01:58:57 PM »
Pretty interesting stuff there fish. Nice to have you and thanks for the input
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2017, 02:17:02 PM »
Pretty interesting stuff there fish. Nice to have you and thanks for the input
:yeah:
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Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2017, 02:20:26 PM »
In addition to dealing with the depredation issues on these properties, we also act as gillies, watching over the properties while the landowner isn't there.  Over the Memorial Day weekend I had a pop-up blind, a set of shooting sticks, and a tripod chair stolen.  Did a little more exploring and found a lot of cascara trees that had been peeled.  Probably two separate issues, that just happened on the same day.  I had my cameras set for animals, not people, so I didn't get them on camera.  Added 6 more cameras, and guess what?  Caught someone up past three no trespassing signs and a gate, where they shouldn't be. 

Any ideas who this jeep belongs to? 
 

If you do, I, and WDFW enforcement, and the GHSO would like to talk to them.

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2017, 02:22:19 PM »
Not good.

Please share some fatty bear pics if you got 'em!
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Online JimmyHoffa

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2017, 02:28:34 PM »
If WDFW and the sheriff want to talk to that guy, why not just run the plate on that jeep?

Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2017, 02:53:14 PM »
If WDFW and the sheriff want to talk to that guy, why not just run the plate on that jeep?

They are going to do that at some time, but they have limited time and manpower to go after property crimes.  If I had access to do so, I'd have done it already.  Property crimes are the lowest priority, and I don't blame them for prioritizing as such.  Also the picture isn't 100% clear, so there are at least 4 possibilities for the plate.  This would be someone who regularly travels in the Malone area, along the Mox-Chehalis Rd. 

 

Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2017, 02:55:59 PM »
Not good.

Please share some fatty bear pics if you got 'em!

I'll share some trail camera pics of the bears later.  Pics of harvested depredation bears are not shared.

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2017, 02:57:45 PM »
 :tup:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2017, 03:43:03 PM »
Thanks for the input dogfish! :tup:
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Offline lord grizzly

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2017, 06:08:22 PM »
You guys have "journalists" over there that spent a year of there life covering what we call spring bear season LOL

Offline dreamunelk

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2017, 07:24:12 PM »
You guys have "journalists" over there that spent a year of there life covering what we call spring bear season LOL

Careful - the disease can spread to other states.  Spent a week in Idaho recently for work.  Kind of surprising the number of libs I met.

Offline lord grizzly

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 07:44:31 PM »
You guys have "journalists" over there that spent a year of there life covering what we call spring bear season LOL

Careful - the disease can spread to other states.  Spent a week in Idaho recently for work.  Kind of surprising the number of libs I met.

I'm not real worried

Offline dreamunelk

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 07:46:38 PM »
You guys have "journalists" over there that spent a year of there life covering what we call spring bear season LOL

Careful - the disease can spread to other states.  Spent a week in Idaho recently for work.  Kind of surprising the number of libs I met.

I'm not real worried

Neither were we!

Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2017, 12:45:22 AM »
These depredation tags are for houndsmen, master hunter over bait, and fda snare guys

Correct. I am in that group of folks. 

Offline dogfish

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2017, 12:52:27 AM »
You guys have "journalists" over there that spent a year of there life covering what we call spring bear season LOL

When I called her out on her poor article on cougar hunting, where she stated that hunter's killed twice the state guideline, she didn't like being challenged on facts.  He reply to me when I told her she needed to tell all the facts was, "but Andrew, that's not what we do."   

Once I saw the backchannel emails from her to folks in the WFPA, and small forest landowners, I knew it was going to be a real cluster.  She is a piece of work. 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 07:15:42 AM by Rainier10 »

Offline Stickerbush

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2017, 06:33:50 AM »
Tag
Coastal Perspective.

Offline skagitsteel

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2017, 04:47:37 PM »
terrible piece of Journalism that is not supported by facts.  I don't have a problem that hired houndsmen are used in special circumstances to reduce bear populations in problem areas, However as a hunter it does frustrate me that we don't have some expanded opportunity to hunt them in the spring given that we are currently underharvesting bears in this state. 

my preffered method of bear hunting is spot and stalk, however I think it is clear the ban on hounds and bait was a political move based on people's emotions rather than actual facts. 

 I see no reason to not have atleast the entire west side of the state have an over the counter general hunt.  We have the healthiest bear population in the lower 48 and almost every other state with huntable numbers of black bears has an OTC spring tag, that makes no sense to not have one here!  I think a spring tag would help in boosting harvest numbers for bears which are underharvested in most people opinion.  I don't hunt fall bears much anymore mainly becasue of other opportunites, I would pursue them a lot more with an OTC spirng tag,I don't think I am alone in that approach either. 

More spring bear tags in units are not going to cut it because simply put spot and stalk hunting is not very effective for reducing bear numbers in a small area.  for example the North Skagit unit sees 'roughly'  5 to 7 bear harvested each year in my understanding.  I was talking to one of the WDFW guys and when they increased the number of tags from 20 to 30 a while back it did nothing to increase the number of bears harvested, just more guys driving around behind the gates.  I hunted the unit hard in 2014 and saw quite a few bears being selective in what I chose to harvest, however on average most guys had a tough hunt. 

I think a genreal tag would help keep overall populations in check, however in problem areas I don't see any other way to reduce bear numbers effectively other than special permitting for bait or hounds.  If 5 bears are hammering trees in one area, there is no way spot and stalk guys are going to be effective.  In this situation I say let them run the hounds it doesn't take away from a hunters opportunity AS LONG AS we have a general OTC spring tag.  just my  :twocents:

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Loophole allows "illegal" bear hunt with dogs--King 5 Story
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2017, 05:55:43 PM »
A little off topic but the mention of No Trespassing signs struck a nerve with me.
I have no problem with depredation work being done by hound hunting, trapping, bait or just stalking but I do have a problem with the Department writing depredation hunt permits to landowners that close their lands to hunting by the public. The Department should have the option of refusing to issue permits if the landowner does not cooperate in allowing public hunting a chance to solve the problem.
I do not believe WDFW can do that now. On my wish list of changes I want to see in the laws.
Bruce Vandervort