collapse
GET THE MOST OUT OF YOUR GPS MAP Bearpaw Outfitters, Quality Hunts for over 30 Years

Author Topic: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey  (Read 3505 times)

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« on: June 03, 2017, 11:03:08 AM »
The Alpine Lakes Wilderness area, located in central Washington, is home to a significant population of mountain goats. An attempt was made a couple years ago to obtain some count data, but proved difficult due to unseasonably hot weather,  fire closures and a limited number of volunteers.  In recent years, hikers have reported aggressive and/or destructive behavior in high-use areas.  We want to gain a better understanding of where the goats are concentrated, how many there throughout the area, how they interact with hikers, and their general health. 

On July 14-17, 2017, in conjunction with SCI and WDFW, the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance will once again lead a boots-on-the-ground survey in and around the Enchantments.  The primary objective is to pin-point the location of goats so that WDFW can follow-up within a week or two with a more efficient and cost effective helicopter aerial survey to obtain a precise population count.  Whenever possible, accurate counts of male, female and juveniles and their GPS locations will be documented by volunteers.

Anyone can day hike within the Enchantment Permit Zone Areas, but must have a permit to overnight.  The Forest Service has agreed to give us a limited number of administrative permits (which have already been allocated) for WDFW personnel and RMGA volunteers to overnight within the Enchantment Permit Zone Areas.  These volunteers can spread out during the day, but must use the same campsite at night with the designated group leader.  The plan is for this group to do a through-hike of all five zones, cover as much ground within them as possible, and document their observations.  But, given the size and scope of the area and the nightly designated campsite constraint, this limited number volunteers can't possibly cover everything surrounding the Enchantment zones.

And so, we need your help!  We need volunteers that are willing to help locate goat populations around the perimeter of the Enchantment Permit Zone Areas. See attachment. If you would like to join us in the mountains for this backpacking survey, please contact the Washington RMGA volunteer coordinator Allen Ernst at allen.ernst@comcast.net or (206) 229-2519.



All able-hikers welcome! Please come prepared with proper backcountry camping gear including good boots, water filtration systems, food, optics, GPS and cameras if you have them. Knowledge of how to use crampons and ice-axes may come in handy given the heavy snowpack.  Help us spread the word and share this project with anyone and everyone who may able to assist. The plan right now is to get a good count of volunteers and where they might be interested in going.

All volunteers will eventually have to formally register with the State of Washington.  More details and a registration link will be sent to all volunteers as the date draws nearer.

Additionally, those entering the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area must have a wilderness permit and follow the appropriate regulations.

Best regards,

Allen
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Online kselkhunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 351
  • Location: United States
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 12:28:37 PM »
Sounds like fun. Too bad the enchantment passes are already allocated. But will contact Allen.

Offline Stickerbush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: 206
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 01:11:20 PM »
Yes email sent, but I'm not sure how this would work. Does this mean that I would have to do day hikes as a volunteer?
Coastal Perspective.

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 02:05:33 PM »
There is nothing that says someone can’t day hike inside the boundaries of the designated Enchantment permit area. But, one would have to find a spot outside the boundaries to overnight or risk a citation.  I have no idea how diligent the Rangers are about policing the overnight permit zones for people who decide to use a small, easily hidden bivy shelter. 
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2017, 02:14:15 PM »
Could "Clint E." please get back to me with a good e-mail address?
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline X-Force

  • Solo Hunter
  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 3365
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2017, 03:48:11 PM »
 :tup:
Groupie:                                                Podcast:
RMEF                                                     Gritty Bowmen
NRA                                                       Full Draw Full Time
SCI                                                        The Hunt Backcountry
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers            MeatEater
                                                             Hunt Talk Radio

Offline HighCountryHunter88

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: GRAHAM
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 06:24:20 PM »
So the through hike is already allocated?
-Matt

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2017, 08:56:38 PM »
So the through hike is already allocated?

At this point, yes.  If a spot opens up I'll let you know Matt.
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline fishngamereaper

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 1546
  • Location: kitsap
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2017, 09:03:12 PM »
Any plan of doing the North of I90 area, or do they have a good grasp of those goats already. Last time I was up in French Cabin they where all over the place.

Offline HighCountryHunter88

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2010
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: GRAHAM
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 09:15:34 PM »
So the through hike is already allocated?

At this point, yes.  If a spot opens up I'll let you know Matt.

Well that's lame
-Matt

Offline CLARKTAR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 178
  • Location: Port Angeles
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 09:25:21 PM »
So the through hike is already allocated?

At this point, yes.  If a spot opens up I'll let you know Matt.

Well that's lame
Agreed

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 09:25:45 PM »
So the through hike is already allocated?

At this point, yes.  If a spot opens up I'll let you know Matt.

Well that's lame

Did you not want me to let you know? Haha!  :) ;)
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 09:30:06 PM »
FWIW, I think it's a tad ridiculous how stingy the FS is with their admin passes AND having to camp together every night.  We could be way more productive if we used the approach we did last year in the Goat Rocks.  I went 'round and 'round with them, but in they end they have all the leverage.  :bash:
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34909
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »
So the through hike is already allocated?

At this point, yes. If a spot opens up I'll let you know Matt.

Well that's lame

Did you not want me to let you know? Haha!  :) ;)

You can through hike the Enchantments without a permit. There is no camping within the core zone but there's no allocation for through hiking. Have at it, just don't spend the night in the core Enchantments.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Knocker of rocks

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 6083
  • Location: the Holocene, man
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2017, 08:01:55 AM »


You can through hike the Enchantments without a permit. There is no camping within the core zone but there's no allocation for through hiking. Have at it, just don't spend the night in the core Enchantments.

Minor correction, you do need a self issued hiking permit from the trailhead.  No limit to those

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34909
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 12:13:05 PM »


You can through hike the Enchantments without a permit. There is no camping within the core zone but there's no allocation for through hiking. Have at it, just don't spend the night in the core Enchantments.

Minor correction, you do need a self issued hiking permit from the trailhead.  No limit to those

Agreed, and good point.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline ghostshell

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: washington
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2017, 10:22:27 AM »
sounds like it would be a challenge to be productive given the perimiter of usage of the area allowed. seems to me they should ease up on there rules for this so more data could be obtained and utilize efforts. i would be interested in going but day use only and or having to trek away from boundry? perhaps there interest is really not there..........

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2017, 12:34:30 PM »
There is still a lot of great country around the overnight permit-only perimeter.  We'll need help with areas to the north of Mt. Cashmere, northwest of Windy Pass, and west of Horseshoe Lake.  If we could get some people up around Ingalls Peak that would be great!
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Cougeyes

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 805
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2017, 11:57:53 AM »
Is the end game hoping that a season can be opened up similar to the conflict hunts in the Olympics?  I'm asking because the last ground survey was to not only figure out the distribution of goats on a broader scale but try and get an accurate count in hopes of opening back up a unit between highway 2 and I-90.  This survey effort is a reduction of that initial broader survey footprint, and clearly will not capture other goat concentrations between I-90 and Highway 2 (e.g. Kachess ridge/Lake Cle Elum, Waptus pass).  I would definitely encourage someone to survey Ingalls peak/lake and longs pass as there are quite a few up there that are quite habituated and somewhat aggressive.

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34909
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2017, 09:01:51 AM »
I'm wondering why the survey in the core zone Enchantments?

Wondering the same thing re: conflict permits. @Bushcraft  , any more insight as to the overall intent of the surveys?
 

:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 10719
  • Location: The valley
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2017, 09:30:41 AM »
Possibly the same issue they have on the Olympic Peninsula where there are too many in the area. I know when I did the one day hike thru there was a ridiculous number of them. They were quite comfortable being around people and that is one area that has a ton of people during the hiking and trail running season.

Offline Bushcraft

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 325
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2017, 09:21:38 PM »
WDFW wants to gain a better understanding of seasonal goat concentrations in and around this extremely high-use area.  They will be flying it within a week or two and having some boots on the ground will help them establish more efficient flight plans.  Helicopters are expensive to run!

To answer some questions, the primary objective is to observe where they are located, try and determine billy/nanny/kid count, observe and document interactions with hikers, look over available feed sources, perhaps paintball any that exhibit aggressive behaviors towards hikers so the FS can try and keep tabs on the problem goats (and alert hikers to goats that have gotten too adjusted to people).

I have been contacted by quite a few people and plan on contacting each person for location assignments between now and Friday.   There's room for more volunteers. Even if you overlap with others, it's a great excuse to get out in some great country with some great folks that care about conservation.

Regards,

Allen
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Gringo31

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 4992
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 11:53:58 AM »
 :tup:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

Offline kingfisher360

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Tenino
  • Groups: Olympic tree hound Association, Washington state hound council, WWC
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 03:25:24 PM »
 :tup:

Offline pope

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 906
  • Location: Oregon Territory
Re: 2017 Alpine Lakes Mountain Goat Survey
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 03:46:41 PM »
Hint: look near the base and top of Snow Creek Wall. Take your shoes off because you'll fingers and toes to count 'em all.