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Author Topic: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls  (Read 6872 times)

Offline wooltie

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bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:23:16 PM »
I've been shooting rifles casually for a few years, but this year I began to focus on technique in an effort to improve groups and group consistently.

I cannot get the rifle to recoil straight back and stay on target.  Typically, the rifle torques counterclockwise during recoil and sends the shots 1-4" high at 100 yards.  I have shot 1 MOA groups before at 100 and 200 yards but they occur inconsistently.

Can someone give me some advice?

The rifle is a Model 70 in 30-06 w/BC stock and Leupold scope, light trigger.  All components are torqued to specs.  I use a caldwell front rest and leather rear bag.  I shoot 150g and 180g factory interlocks, accubonds, SST.

I've tried different setups: shoulders almost square to target; pulling the stock into the pocket; letting the rifle free recoil; I've shouldered the rifle at the bench, aimed at the target, then lowered the rifle onto the rests to establish my body position relative to target; my head is always relaxed and tips forward to rest my cheek onto the stock.

So I dunno.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 04:34:51 PM »
Are you holding the forend ?

Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 04:47:38 PM »
No, the rifle rests on front and rear rests.

I have had shots where the rifle barely recoils back and stays on target.

The rifle sits fairly level in the rests but I haven't verified that.

I don't know if the issue is how the gun sits in the rests or where the pad rests against my shoulder pocket.

The recoil doesn't bother me so I don't think the issue is flinching.

Offline Alchase

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 05:28:28 PM »
I never liked using a rear rest, and I hold the fore end at the contact point with the front rest pad unless using a bipod. Set your shoulder, and find your cheek weld.

1-4" at 100 yards is a pretty big variation from a bench.
Is the rifle sighted in?
Try holding the fore end.
If so sounds more like a loose scope or rings.
Ammo could be another reason.
And if you still can't get it in, bedding could be the issue.
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Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 05:46:59 PM »
I know where the bullet impacts based upon where the gun recoils. If I see the sight move up and right of the bullseye then I know that's there the bullet impacted. Of course I verify impact through the scope after but the fact that where the point of aim changes during recoil tells me it's a technique thing, I think.

When the gun recoils straight back and never really leaves the original point of aim, the bullet impacts the bullseye, right on target.

I dunno I read that rounds with more kick require you to pull the rifle into the shoulder pocket more so than letting the rifle ride the rests back.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 06:00:26 PM »
Is that a sporter stock?  Thats good. Stocks with much drop at the pad tend to not stay on the front rest without holding the forend.

Light rifles I find hard to shoot without holding forend in general unless they have a brake though stocks with high pad and shooting not uphill is less of issue.

Offline Jolten

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 06:03:38 PM »
Are you resting the rifle exactly the same way on the front bag? Sounds like your rifle sling is on the bag and causing the forend to bounce up.
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Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 06:08:05 PM »
Yeah it's bell and Carlson sporter. Barrel is floated. Rifle is on the light side at 7-7.5 lbs.  I used a torque wrench to torque the action screws and rings to spec.

The right slides back on the rests during recoil but never comes off.

I keep playing with my setup re pad position and how square my shoulders are to target.

180g is about as much recoil as i like. I've shot 180g out of a 300 shot mag and that was too much.

Yes, I rest the forend 2-3" behind the sling mount.

I definitely feel more relaxed and natural when I can sit up more at the bench as opposed to leaning over. So I always sit on a stool or low chair as opposed to a taller chair.


Offline huntnfmly

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 06:28:07 PM »
It sounds like you may have your trigger finger wrapped around trigger pulling to one side instead of just the pad of your finger and pulling straight back
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Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 06:55:54 PM »
Could be. I'll watch for that.

I'm pretty relaxed at bench meaning my upper body and shoulders are relaxed and not tense.

They aren't exactly braced for the recoil whereas your entire body weight absorbs recoil when shooting prone.

Maybe I need to find a more braced position at bench.

Offline Bill W

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 07:06:08 PM »
If you were over in the Moses Lake area I'd give you some bench rest shooting tips.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 07:08:31 PM »
I would try holding forend and rest of rifle in a very firm grip.  Have crosshairs on target then tighten grip dont force it over. Take 5 shots thats your baseline. I expect it will be better then now.  Now experiment  to better that.

Offline Alchase

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 07:25:55 PM »
Please do not take offense,

If 30-06 shooting 180 and 150, everything tight, floated barrel.
And both are throwing flyers 1-4 inches, try different ammo type.

30-06 is not what I would call a hard kicking caliber even with 180s.
Have someone watch you shoot, I suspect if it is not ammo, that you are flinching anticipating the recoil.

If you take all the mechanical variations and ammo out of the picture , it leaves only the shooter.
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Offline biggfish

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 07:49:05 PM »
Just a thought maybe it's a barrel resonance problem do you have de-resonater to try.

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Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 07:57:58 PM »
Thanks for all the tips. I'll experiment with a firmer grip, or holding the Forend to see if that helps.

Not looking for crazy groups just 1 moa consistently is fine by me.

I suspect I just need to manage the recoil better using a more firm pull of the stock onto the pocket.

I had a 308 once, heavier rifle by about 1 lb, and shot 150g factory ammo 1 moa all day. Less felt recoil with that rifle and round so I used a light grip and very little pull into the pocket.


Offline JDHasty

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 08:27:14 PM »
Baby powder on both bags.  Sling swivels removed or at the very least not close to touching bags. 

Get it lined up and then I only hold with trigger hand and seat the rifle into my pocket firmly (I shoot 300 Wby & slug guns this way).  Off hand squeezing rear bag. 

Online Bob33

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 08:33:52 PM »
Take a friend with you. Have him load the rifle for you without you watching. Ask him to not load it one of the first few times but not tell you which time. He can carefully watch you shoot to see if you flinch and how you pull the trigger. If you flinch that's probably the issue. If you don't, good for you and you can rule that out. Flinching is more common than many would admit.
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Offline hogslayer

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 08:36:56 PM »
I would have a hard time believing that the way your holding the gun would make a 1-4" difference.  Maybe 3/4 to 1/2' difference at 100 but not inches.  Especially at 100 yards.  I would also focus on where your cheek weld and how centered you are behind the scope.

Offline Alchase

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 08:46:54 PM »
Take a friend with you. Have him load the rifle for you without you watching. Ask him to not load it one of the first few times but not tell you which time. He can carefully watch you shoot to see if you flinch and how you pull the trigger. If you flinch that's probably the issue. If you don't, good for you and you can rule that out. Flinching is more common than many would admit.

I agree, I have seen guys flinch bad enough to not be on paper at 100 yards.
Most can be fixed by realizing what is taking place.
Only 2 defining forces sacrificed themselves for you:
The American Soldier and Jesus Christ. One died for your freedom, the other for your soul.

My rock,
He trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.
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Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 09:03:11 PM »
I would have a hard time believing that the way your holding the gun would make a 1-4" difference.  Maybe 3/4 to 1/2' difference at 100 but not inches.  Especially at 100 yards.  I would also focus on where your cheek weld and how centered you are behind the scope.

Today for example, the first shot was 2" high and slightly left.  Second shot was on target.  Third shot was 2.5-3" high and right.

The rifle has grouped moa before on the target, and also off the target--I've put 5-6 shots in an inch together but like 1" high and right.

I just notice that my best shots occur when the right recoils straight back and does not torque.  Coincidentally, the rifle recoils (physically moves) back very little when the straight back/no torque thing occurs.  It's like on these shots my body is providing enough firm resistance to absorb the recoil but not let the rifle wander left/right/up/down or torque.

I know the rifle is solid, so it's either me, the rest/bag, the ammo, or a combination thereof.

Offline jmscon

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 09:19:18 PM »
Double check scope mounts, clean the holy heck out of the barrel then do it again.

The other thing I've been thinking about lately when people are talking about their rifle used to shoot well and now it doesn't, if your bench is in the sun and you are hanging out for a while that barrel has a hard time cooling down. Left out in the sun long enough it will get pretty darn hot without firing a shot. Also the sun heating the barrel is not even where firing the rifle with heat the barrel more evenly (in the circumference not length).
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 10:06:24 PM »
I would have a hard time believing that the way your holding the gun would make a 1-4" difference.  Maybe 3/4 to 1/2' difference at 100 but not inches.  Especially at 100 yards.  I would also focus on where your cheek weld and how centered you are behind the scope.

Today for example, the first shot was 2" high and slightly left.  Second shot was on target.  Third shot was 2.5-3" high and right.

The rifle has grouped moa before on the target, and also off the target--I've put 5-6 shots in an inch together but like 1" high and right.

I just notice that my best shots occur when the right recoils straight back and does not torque.  Coincidentally, the rifle recoils (physically moves) back very little when the straight back/no torque thing occurs.  It's like on these shots my body is providing enough firm resistance to absorb the recoil but not let the rifle wander left/right/up/down or torque.

I know the rifle is solid, so it's either me, the rest/bag, the ammo, or a combination thereof.

Is the barrel clean?  My 300 Wby shoots about 7/10ths clean, but with copper buildup it goes south real fast. 

Offline kentrek

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 12:19:29 AM »
How many times have you shot moa ? Could it have been a false positive? Good ammo goes along ways

I'd upgrade the trigger beings it's a light rifle.....if you have 6 pound trigger pull on a 7 pound gun....well you get my point

Also practice alil dry firing

Invest in a led sled

Solid bench ??

Your prolly a better shot then you realize, something is wrong with the rifle/ammo/scope/bench

Hope this helps

Offline yorketransport

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2017, 06:51:20 AM »
Shooting a relatively light weight rifle free recoil is more difficult than you'd think. Part of what you're seeing could be the forend bouncing off of the front test. I usually get better accuracy from hunting rifles when I grip the forend to control the bounce off of the front rest. Also, make sure that the contour of the front bag matches the forend. Using a 2" front bag on a standard spotter forend won't offer much help.

Try shooting it off of a bipod too. This will take away some of the problems you can get when your front rest is either too hard or too soft. A bipod with a good rear bag is my preferred method for shooting groups with a spotter style rifle.

Offline wooltie

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Re: bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2017, 07:43:39 AM »
Shooting a relatively light weight rifle free recoil is more difficult than you'd think. Part of what you're seeing could be the forend bouncing off of the front test. I usually get better accuracy from hunting rifles when I grip the forend to control the bounce off of the front rest. Also, make sure that the contour of the front bag matches the forend. Using a 2" front bag on a standard spotter forend won't offer much help.

Try shooting it off of a bipod too. This will take away some of the problems you can get when your front rest is either too hard or too soft. A bipod with a good rear bag is my preferred method for shooting groups with a spotter style rifle.

Thanks.  I use a Caldwell Rock Deluxe w/the factory bag and a leather bunny ears rear bag.  The benches are solid wood or concrete which require a pallet jack to move.

The trigger is the factory MOA turned almost all the way down to where I'm comfortable.  All the way down is pretty darn light.  The rifle+scope weighs about 7.5 lbs I believe--it weighs under 8 lbs for sure.  Shooting 180g factory accubonds for a hunting load right now.

By free recoil I mean (1) the rifle sits on the rests at the target, (2) I bring my body and shoulder to the rifle, (3) I lightly grip/shoulder the stock not to disrupt the point of aim, and apply pressure to the trigger.  The gun comes off target considerably when it recoils, typically going up and torquing right or left.  I can see where the point of aim moves to during the shot, and where it goes is where my shots always end up.  That's why I'm trying to find the right combination to get consistent recoil of just straight back--neither up/down/left/right.

 

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