collapse
For a Day of FISHING & EXCITEMENT Advertise on Hunting-Washington

Author Topic: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break  (Read 4451 times)

Offline singleshot12

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 3333
  • Location: N.W. Washington
  • WWA,PF
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2017, 12:05:56 PM »
An Atlantic salmon is basically a cross between a steelhead and a chinook. Maybe they would survive better in the wid than our dwindling so called native salmon and trout. At this point in our fisheries what could it hurt to give them a try?

As far as farm raised vs. wild food consumption? I would bet farm raised would be healthier since they are not near the top of the food chain :twocents:
NATURE HAS A WAY

"All good things must come to an end"

Offline CP

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2008
  • Posts: 4455
  • Location: Everett
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2017, 12:11:42 PM »
As far as farm raised vs. wild food consumption? I would bet farm raised would be healthier since they are not near the top of the food chain :twocents:


 :puke:

Offline singleshot12

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 3333
  • Location: N.W. Washington
  • WWA,PF
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2017, 12:19:41 PM »
Tilapia I think is a different story. And poop might be better than mercury,radiation,pesticides,hormones etc. that wild fish pick up on down the food chain.
NATURE HAS A WAY

"All good things must come to an end"

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 9705
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2017, 12:36:57 PM »
Tilapia I think is a different story. And poop might be better than mercury,radiation,pesticides,hormones etc. that wild fish pick up on down the food chain.
I've read before that about 1/3 of all the catch in the ocean goes to pet food, livestock feed and aquaculture feed.  Stuff just gets ground up into pellets and fed in the farms.  So, they still get a lot of nasty stuff accumulating.

Offline Night goat

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 252
  • Location: Nunya
  • skookum magoo strikes again!!!
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2017, 02:02:45 PM »
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk?
               
........ Only thing that comes to mind is the Federal government has to negotiate salmon regs. and the the state decides wildlife.

It is the same thing as having cows in a pasture, these are essentially domesticated animals and have little relationship to pen raising a wild animal.

if you look up the parent company who owns those net pens, you will notice ikura is one of the products from those fish.

do your own research though.

will a sterile fish still produce roe?


Not sure where the idea came from that these were triploid. Depending on production facility they may or may not raise them sterile.

Not a big deal if they are sterile or not though. They will not (or are very, very unlikely to) cross with Pacific salmon and as far as I know have never created a sustained wild run on the west coast.

Atlantics have been escaping for 30+ years in very large numbers (if it is only 50k a year I would find that highly unlikely and 50k is not even worth mentioning because of the insanely small number that represents in the scheme of fish production) and have randomly been picked up in fisheries or seen in streams.  If it was going to be an issue it should already have happened.

Just an over embellished story blowing a non issue out of proportion to further environmental dogma and sell papers. The only issue is the benefit of having more fish to catch :tup:

theyve tried many many many times to cross an atlantic with a pacific salmon and even in lab environments they havent had success. the fear is having enough of these escape that when they smell fresh water nature will take over and they will head upstream and breed.....

my personal fear is that given the proximity of the samish river and the fact that these atlantics are mature, they might head upstream, given how small that river is, it would be competing with one of the last decent chinook runs, but otherwise, a salmon species that might have a better chance of survival......?

obviously they are farmed fish, but, what would they be if they spawned? first generation wild stock? would it be bad if we all of a sudden had a salmon that was more adaptable and persistent and resist to human bs in our rivers? short answer is no, it would be great if we could replenish our rivers with salmon, however, they arent wild salmon, they arent pacific salmon, they are an invasive species, whether long term good or bad, that threatens the indigenous salmon populations despite how unhealthy those fish are.

if 150 years ago this happened and the skagit, nooksack, Frazier, stilly, green, snohomish, and cedar rivers had an invasive salmon species claim it, we would still be pissed it happened to an extent in this day and age, but I doubt we would really care because of the fact there would be salmon runs.

the reality is that these fish, if they survive to spawn, will face the same problems and issues as our wild fish, and even our hatchery fish. while farm animals mixing with wild animals isnt entirely new, there are issues that these fish present to the wild stock, fish is kind of a new industry in the grand scheme of things. there never will be a replacement for wild salmon, period. however, with the going rate of climate change and environmental issues, its most likely inevitable that some will get into our rivers. the ultimate question is what the long term effects will be. if they took root in our rivers and indeed were able to thrive, more than likely they would evolve into a subspecies, but, if the were able to be wild, and live side by side with our pacific salmon, more fish in the rivers.... we just dont know what would actually happen, and the health of these farm fish, and what illness they could spread to wild fish, isnt something we can afford to experiment with, without a doubt there is the possibility of these farmed fish passing on a virus to pacifics and wiping them out, but, I think that there is also the potential, even in small numbers to add, whether intentional or not, another species of salmon to a river that after a spawn cycle, if successful, might establish a very small run, but... will face the exact same issues of pacifics...

still, I say kill em all, our oceans are not labratories or farm fields.

regardless of current events, salmon shaped the forests of the west coast, our trees were huge because of the nitrogen produced by rotting salmon post spawn, the envoriment was healther because of the annual down stream flow of essentially fish based fertilizer. deforestation, over fishing, global warming.... the spotted owl.... we can point fingers at many things, and we can try to restore creeks and un-do all the damage weve done, but, in order to get things somewhat close to the way they were in terms of fish runs, its a trifecta of healthy forests, healthy rivers, and healthy fish. fixing just one of those isnt possible, they need to be all working together at the same time, and while I am by no means advocating stuffing our rivers with gmo frankenfish, I feel that if found to be able to cohabitate with wild fish, some sort of introduction of a fish that can thrive in current conditions in conjunction with better forestry and conservation practices, and management on a state level, it might jump start critical areas that would be otherwise have no fish... obviously these arent the right fish for something like that, but, to me, its the concept thats worth considering

even if we had a number of salmon head up the rivers, like they did 200 years ago, they wouldnt make it, our rivers and streams cant handle large numbers of fish, because there hasnt been fish like that, the forests dont support rivers like that anymore. simply adding more fish to a river isnt the answer, but if there was a more persistent and slightly increasing number of annual fish in areas that would otherwise be barren... hard to say, its a very controversial subject, but, do you ever hear of sockeye out competing chinook salmon for spawning areas? of course not, thats why salmon run at different times of the year... I think that it shouldnt be taken off the table, but, only as a last resort, man shouldnt mess with nature like that, but if its a last ditch effort to save the rivers... I do feel that in our lifetimes, we will be asking the question "how could it get any worse?" and whether we like it or not, some sort of intervention will take place...

still, everything possible should be done to protect the few wild fish we have left, including killing all of these escapees while possible
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:39:17 PM by Night goat »

Offline singleshot12

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 3333
  • Location: N.W. Washington
  • WWA,PF
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2017, 02:49:02 PM »
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.
NATURE HAS A WAY

"All good things must come to an end"

Offline Night goat

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 252
  • Location: Nunya
  • skookum magoo strikes again!!!
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2017, 02:53:52 PM »
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.

exactly, and, just a thought id like to add, there is the potential for the pacifics to survive in the shadow of the atlantics. if the atlantics thrive and jump start our rivers, and provide the environment with a new food source, pressure might be taken off the pacific salmon just enough to give them a chance to recover. escaped farm fish isnt the answer, but the atlantic salmon as a species definitely holds a lot of potential
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 03:00:05 PM by Night goat »

Offline singleshot12

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 3333
  • Location: N.W. Washington
  • WWA,PF
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2017, 03:05:26 PM »
 :yeah: I would say at this point it would definitely be worth a try. But doubt it would ever be considered by the bio's or fish managers.
NATURE HAS A WAY

"All good things must come to an end"

Offline Griiz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 184
  • Location: Puget Sound
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2017, 04:08:55 PM »
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.

exactly, and, just a thought id like to add, there is the potential for the pacifics to survive in the shadow of the atlantics. if the atlantics thrive and jump start our rivers, and provide the environment with a new food source, pressure might be taken off the pacific salmon just enough to give them a chance to recover. escaped farm fish isnt the answer, but the atlantic salmon as a species definitely holds a lot of potential

Yeah right, they are closing hatcheries because they are supposedly bad for native stocks and the are producing the hatchery fish with native Gene's. The politics are beyond frustrating.

Offline j_h_nimrod

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 1063
  • Location: Humptulips, WA
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2017, 12:34:03 AM »
Establishing Atlantic salmon runs on this coast has already been tried numerous times, it never took. There has also been a large number of escapees over the years that have not been known to create a breeding population. Another non issue. 

Offline lokidog

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 13142
  • Location: Decatur Island/Sultan
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2017, 12:21:03 PM »
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:

Sea lice levels rise and fall, Alaska wild caught is rampant with them on certain years and those fish are out of the influence of the BC farms. Sea lice can be an issue but farms are more likely to create localized epidemics from lice that were originally brought in by wild fish in the area.
Not sure what the talk of sea lice is, if, and a big if it is, these fish have sea lice (Not a single one of over 100 I've seen had even one) the lice came from "wild" fish.

Other than maybe the yellowmouth thing, and maybe even that, the pen raised fish probably have more to worry about catching diseases from the local fish than the other way around since our local fish have genetic resistance to local diseases.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Offline h2ofowlr

  • CHOKED UP TIGHT
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 7959
  • Location: In the "Blind"! Go Cougs!
Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2017, 03:08:40 PM »
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:

Sea lice levels rise and fall, Alaska wild caught is rampant with them on certain years and those fish are out of the influence of the BC farms. Sea lice can be an issue but farms are more likely to create localized epidemics from lice that were originally brought in by wild fish in the area.

Don't think a single one of the Atlantic salmon I caught had sea lice on them.  Boated 52 of them.
Cut em!
It's not the shells!  It's the shooter!

Offline Stein

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 2795
300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2017, 04:38:06 PM »
Yeah, I'll pass on factory fish like I pass on factory beef.  They may make decent crab bait.

Seattle can dump millions of gallons of sewage and this is allowed to happen, but make sure you have a license and pinched barb when you are out cleaning up the mess.

If sea lice won't eat them......

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

* Recent Topics

Male coyote down by wolftrapper
[Today at 03:50:51 AM]


Input on Browning x-bolt hells canyon by Miles
[Today at 03:11:24 AM]


The mighty 28 gauge by merkelman
[Today at 01:17:39 AM]


Where would you buy hunting/recreation property in Washington? by mjgentile
[Today at 01:10:37 AM]


FS: 7mm Rem Mag casings/ammo by JTB
[Today at 01:07:04 AM]


Help with lady's bow purchase by mjgentile
[Today at 12:59:08 AM]


Prime rib prep question?? by Bigshooter
[Today at 12:31:10 AM]


Salmon fishing/Not likley by hunthard
[Today at 12:01:52 AM]


Whidbey (I know... I know). by ckr117
[Yesterday at 11:23:32 PM]


BASES, eyeguards, MOSS Rougher the better! by Watimberghost
[Yesterday at 11:03:14 PM]


Sure babe, I don't mind you invading my reloading area. by Biggerhammer
[Yesterday at 10:52:31 PM]


2016 goat back from taxidermist by Rob
[Yesterday at 10:50:50 PM]


Bushnell Banner - DON'T DO IT!!! by Biggerhammer
[Yesterday at 10:42:08 PM]


Apples for deer by Mallardmasher
[Yesterday at 10:40:06 PM]


Dealing with backyard poop by Romulus1297
[Yesterday at 10:37:58 PM]


Breaking Dawn by fishnfur
[Yesterday at 10:28:51 PM]


FS: Scent Blocker Alpha pants New with tags $125 by redi
[Yesterday at 10:20:57 PM]


Where should I put my camera this winter? by smdave
[Yesterday at 09:45:58 PM]


Update: Help for Okanogan Mule Deer by wolfbait
[Yesterday at 09:45:02 PM]


Elk Hunting in Ferry, Stevens, or Pend Oreille Counties by Ridgeratt
[Yesterday at 09:42:45 PM]