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Author Topic: High buck legality question  (Read 2382 times)

Offline cboom

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High buck legality question
« on: August 25, 2017, 01:21:54 PM »
I know this will look like a silly unlikely senerio, but I sometimes hunt places this could be a very realistic encounter.........

So if a person is just out of the wilderness area and a buck is in the legal wilderness area would it be legal to take the shot? I have looked through the regs and didn't see anything that addressed this. And no offense to anybody, I'm not looking for guess's or opinions. Just facts on if that would be legal or not.

Online Bob33

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 01:27:01 PM »
You could be considered hunting in an area that is not open to hunting, so it would not be legal.
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Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 01:38:09 PM »
You could be considered hunting in an area that is not open to hunting, so it would not be legal.
If I'm looking for game in a legal area and shoot an animal in a legal area I think there could be an argument to be made? I was hoping someone knew of something in the laws clearly spelled this out. And just to be clear wouldn't do this unless I knew it was legal. A buddy and I were talking about this today is why I brought it up.

Offline GUscottie

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 02:09:13 PM »
Here's my  :twocents: on this....

Where were you? in an area not legal to harvest an animal
Where was the animal? In a legal area...
If a cops sees this:He's going to cite you and charge you with hunting in an area you're not supposed to be in.

I personally wouldn't want to risk my $$ (for a lawyer and all the legal fees) and my hunting rights over a situation like this. If you get charged with a crime like this in WA, you lose your hunting in 42 or 44 states for x-years...Not even worth it in my opinion
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Online Bob33

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 02:11:59 PM »
It doesn't necessarily even require someone to shoot from a closed area to be considered hunting.

(62) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a wild animal or wild bird.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010
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Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 02:17:38 PM »
Here's my  :twocents: on this....

Where were you? in an area not legal to harvest an animal
Where was the animal? In a legal area...
If a cops sees this:He's going to cite you and charge you with hunting in an area you're not supposed to be in.

I personally wouldn't want to risk my $$ (for a lawyer and all the legal fees) and my hunting rights over a situation like this. If you get charged with a crime like this in WA, you lose your hunting in 42 or 44 states for x-years...Not even worth it in my opinion

I agree with you.  Just wondering if there is anything in the law that addresses this senerio. Do both animal and hunter need to physically in the area? Or just the animal being harvested need to in open area? I  would surely think hunter in open area shooting animal in closed would be a sure no no.

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 02:19:31 PM »
Because the location of the hunter is what determines whether it is legal or not in that case, a deer in a closed area would not be legal.

The deer is not the one doing the "hunting."
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Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 02:29:28 PM »
It doesn't necessarily even require someone to shoot from a closed area to be considered hunting.

(62) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a wild animal or wild bird.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010

Seeing that I would have agree it would not be legal probably or something a person would most likely be sited for. The only argument that could be made is a person was not trying to kill, injure, harass, ext. In a closed area if the animal targeted was known to be in an open area.

Just figured this must have been addressed at some point with the amount of miles of wilderness borders there are in this state. And even the cases one gmu is open and the bordering one is closed in other seasons.

Edit: to add to that a person could spot a deer in a legal area while not being in that area. And put a stock on it making sure he was physically in the legal area when he pulled the trigger. But by the letter of the law you sited he began "hunting" in a closed area because that is where the effort to kill originated?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 02:41:59 PM by cboom »

Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
Because the location of the hunter is what determines whether it is legal or not in that case, a deer in a closed area would not be legal.

The deer is not the one doing the "hunting."

You kind of lost me there, or didn't read it right? Fully would think if the deer is in a closed area it would be illegal.

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 02:34:29 PM »
I once was in a situation where elk were in an area closed to hunting, across the road from an open area. I asked an enforcement officer if someone could legally push the elk from the closed area into the open area. He said it could be considered hunting to push them across the road, even without having a firearm.
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Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 02:55:21 PM »
I once was in a situation where elk were in an area closed to hunting, across the road from an open area. I asked an enforcement officer if someone could legally push the elk from the closed area into the open area. He said it could be considered hunting to push them across the road, even without having a firearm.

I could sure see how they could use the harass part of the law there. Interesting reading the law you posted and reading your last post.  A person could be considered hunting with no weapon and no intent killing an animal.

Offline Ridgerunner

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2017, 03:16:25 PM »
Grey area for sure, a guy could say that he was hunting bear in the area that was closed to the high buck.  I bet its up to the investigating officer if shooting across a wilderness boundary from one GMU into another would be enough to consider it a violation.  the deer that died would have been in an open area for the hunt so it could be legal who knows.....

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 03:24:55 PM »
Because the location of the hunter is what determines whether it is legal or not in that case, a deer in a closed area would not be legal.

The deer is not the one doing the "hunting."

You kind of lost me there, or didn't read it right? Fully would think if the deer is in a closed area it would be illegal.

Don't think that you read it right, see the bolded parts, we are both saying the same thing there, just using different words.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2017, 03:29:08 PM »
I personally would shoot it, but maybe it would be the same thing as shooting from the side of the road?

Offline cboom

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 03:39:29 PM »
Because the location of the hunter is what determines whether it is legal or not in that case, a deer in a closed area would not be legal.

The deer is not the one doing the "hunting."

You kind of lost me there, or didn't read it right? Fully would think if the deer is in a closed area it would be illegal.

Don't think that you read it right, see the bolded parts, we are both saying the same thing there, just using different words.

I'm a bit slow!

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2017, 03:48:56 PM »
I personally would shoot it, but maybe it would be the same thing as shooting from the side of the road?

Not really, because if done right, shooting from the side of the road is legal.

Think more along the line of standing in an open unit and shooting a deer in a clearing that happens to be in a park.

One area is open the other is not.  The deer is killed in a closed area, so it was not legally taken.
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2017, 03:57:47 PM »
My examples are based on the OP's assertion that he knows the area the deer is standing is open and he is in a closed area.

Since the burden lays on the hunter to know his location and boundaries/property lines, GMU restrictions or requirements, etc. I can't see a situation where if discovered, he could put up a good arguement for not being cited.

Possibly could argue no intent to violate the law to the Judge if he didn't know that where he was standing was closed , but I don't think if it went that far, the hunter would walk away without some degree of a penalty.


Corrected my mistake...thanks for seeing it, cause I sure couldn't!!   :DOH:
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 04:32:46 PM by Blacktail Sniper »
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2017, 04:25:37 PM »
My examples are based on the OP's assertion that he knows the area the deer is standing is closed.

Since the burden lays on the hunter to know his location and boundaries/property lines, GMU restrictions or requirements, etc. I can't see a situation where if discovered, he could put up a good arguement for not being cited.

Possibly could argue no intent to violate the law to the Judge if he didn't know that where the deer was standing was closed, but I don't think if it went that far, the hunter would walk away without some degree of a penalty.

Op said the deer was in the open area, shooter outside of open area.  ;)
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
 This seems like a no brainer to me. If outside of the open area that would be hunting in a closed area regardless of where the buck is standing. Also not having hunter orange on would make it illegal also.
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2017, 04:28:45 PM »
Beat me to it boss.
Yes the op is in closed area deer is not
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 04:28:56 PM »
My examples are based on the OP's assertion that he knows the area the deer is standing is closed.

Since the burden lays on the hunter to know his location and boundaries/property lines, GMU restrictions or requirements, etc. I can't see a situation where if discovered, he could put up a good arguement for not being cited.

Possibly could argue no intent to violate the law to the Judge if he didn't know that where the deer was standing was closed, but I don't think if it went that far, the hunter would walk away without some degree of a penalty.

Op said the deer was in the open area, shooter outside of open area.  ;)

Thank you, I read that 3 times and knew something was not right...just couldn't see it!!!   :bash:


Will correct it! 

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Online teanawayslayer

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 04:35:05 PM »
 You would be hunting from a closed a unit there for illegal illegal illegal!  But I guess if you have enough money you could get out of it pretty easily!  :hello:
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 04:38:26 PM »
Because the location of the hunter is what determines whether it is legal or not in that case, a deer in a closed area would not be legal.

The deer is not the one doing the "hunting."

You kind of lost me there, or didn't read it right? Fully would think if the deer is in a closed area it would be illegal.

Don't think that you read it right, see the bolded parts, we are both saying the same thing there, just using different words.

I'm a bit slow!


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Offline blacktailer

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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 08:06:01 PM »
Dang Cboom.  Looks like you'll actually have to hike your sorry butt up the mountain rather than relying on that new long range shooting stick...
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Re: High buck legality question
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 09:58:00 PM »
Grey area, therefore default to NOT shooting. 

I have asked this specific question to tenured WDFW officers and received conflicting answers; which I have no problem with.  Officers, prosecutors, and judges all conflict within their own professions at times.  I'm not a risk taker when it comes to fish and wildlife laws (or any law), so when in question don't send it, and plan an alternative kill solution.





   
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