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Author Topic: Duplicity in the wolf debate  (Read 6836 times)

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2017, 06:06:13 PM »
Wacoyte

Show me on cnw web site where they support any form of hunting

Chase the cnw spokesman, has already they support the ban of all forms of trapping too

They collaborate with anti hunting groups on their facebook page. They have zero collaboration with sportsmen in their agenda.

So cnw help shut down hunting and this can be easily found searching legislation and has at least one staff member who is a member of an anti hunting group who wants to ends all forms of hunting

Mitch was 20 years plus member of an eco terrorist group who advocated violent acts against loggers
But hey he is a nice guy whom we need to work with him to help shut down some of our hunting so we can be his friend

He helped end hunting so we really to listen to him

This is insane
I haven't been on third website.  Like I said, go meet someone in person and quit worrying with the internet research

Offline Lucky1

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2017, 06:20:43 PM »
CNW has a webpage devoted to the ways in which they support hunting. www.conservationnw.org/hunting
I see that CNW seems to accept "fair chase hunting". Do you know if their definition of fair chase includes baiting? Hound hunting? All legal hunting methods?

Offline ribka

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2017, 06:42:34 PM »
CNW has a webpage devoted to the ways in which they support hunting. www.conservationnw.org/hunting
I see that CNW seems to accept "fair chase hunting". Do you know if their definition of fair chase includes baiting? Hound hunting? All legal hunting methods?

Nope against hound hunting , baiting, trapping

Lobbying to hound hunting of cats shut down

Feel free to come on and set the record straight chase

Seem like nice  :dunno:guys though

Offline mfswallace

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2017, 08:34:11 PM »
I worked with Mitch and CNW to get legislation for hound hunting back in WA.  Mitch did a ton of legwork and had Reps. Blake and Kretz ready to sponsor something. 

CNW was a big reason we lost hound hunting, but they (Mitch at least) recognized that the best biological option was use of hounds and changed his position.  This was in 2011 or 12 maybe, that was the first time I worked with him.  I think you guys need to quit doing your research online and spend some time actually talking to people.

I think you just pointed out the duplicity this thread is about, you got duped  :chuckle:
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Offline Special T

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2017, 09:05:08 PM »
Here is some of the history of Mitch Friedman... do a quick Google search and you will find the kind of lawsuits he considers sucess.

http://Http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970714&slug=2549520

While advocates like Beth Church, conservation manager for Wolfhaven, a research and wolf advocacy south of Olympia, applaud Dicks' effort in the Olympics, they are still rankled by the budget cuts in the North Cascades.

Argues Mitch Friedman, director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance, "Wolves in the Olympics make perfect political sense because you've got a congressman who wants them in his district. But biologically speaking, why are we starting another batch of cookies while we let the ones we've already got in the oven burn?"

While funding for the Olympic wolf-restoration program has been rolling through the House, the Fish and Wildlife Service last week announced it had completed a grizzly-bear recovery plan for the North Cascades - a study first begun in 1991.




http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=649

I founded the Greater Ecosystem Alliance (later renamed Northwest Ecosystem Alliance) that year, along with some friends who now have mostly moved on to other projects. On our minds was to champion bold new approaches to saving biodiversity. With big goals envisioned, we wanted to protect not just the big trees, trails and owls, but the entire old growth ecosystem. We wanted to protect not just the alpine gems, but the entire North Cascades ecosystem, capable of sustaining a viable grizzly bear population. We wanted to infuse new ideas of science and conservation to keep the Northwest wild, with large interconnected wild ecosystems from the Washington Coast to the British Columbia Rockies.

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Offline ribka

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2017, 09:41:30 PM »
He's motivated by his personal politics not his desire to support sportsmen

Still waiting for CNW spokesman or director of or to come back on here answer some basic questions regarding their stance for sport hunting

Coyotehunter do you know if CNW supports ALl legal forms of sport hunting?

I worked with Mitch and CNW to get legislation for hound hunting back in WA.  Mitch did a ton of legwork and had Reps. Blake and Kretz ready to sponsor something. 

CNW was a big reason we lost hound hunting, but they (Mitch at least) recognized that the best biological option was use of hounds and changed his position.  This was in 2011 or 12 maybe, that was the first time I worked with him.  I think you guys need to quit doing your research online and spend some time actually talking to people.

I think you just pointed out the duplicity this thread is about, you got duped  :chuckle:

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2017, 11:37:09 PM »
Quote
Argues Mitch Friedman, director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance, "Wolves in the Olympics make perfect political sense because you've got a congressman who wants them in his district. But biologically speaking, why are we starting another batch of cookies while we let the ones we've already got in the oven burn?"

While funding for the Olympic wolf-restoration program has been rolling through the House

 Wait a second, what happened to the "natural migration"?
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Special T

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2017, 06:31:29 AM »
The more you dig into CNW and their roots, it becomes apparent that they are a go between.  They shill for anti hunting groups while making the appearance of representing us... That is how they get on advisory groups   :pee: into the ear of politicians saying the are a sportsmen friendly org.

As much as I dislike these guys they get traction because we as sportsmen have not unified with a strong voice.
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2017, 06:42:33 AM »
Here is some of the history of Mitch Friedman... do a quick Google search and you will find the kind of lawsuits he considers sucess.

http://Http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970714&slug=2549520

While advocates like Beth Church, conservation manager for Wolfhaven, a research and wolf advocacy south of Olympia, applaud Dicks' effort in the Olympics, they are still rankled by the budget cuts in the North Cascades.

Argues Mitch Friedman, director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance, "Wolves in the Olympics make perfect political sense because you've got a congressman who wants them in his district. But biologically speaking, why are we starting another batch of cookies while we let the ones we've already got in the oven burn?"

While funding for the Olympic wolf-restoration program has been rolling through the House, the Fish and Wildlife Service last week announced it had completed a grizzly-bear recovery plan for the North Cascades - a study first begun in 1991.




http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=649

I founded the Greater Ecosystem Alliance (later renamed Northwest Ecosystem Alliance) that year, along with some friends who now have mostly moved on to other projects. On our minds was to champion bold new approaches to saving biodiversity. With big goals envisioned, we wanted to protect not just the big trees, trails and owls, but the entire old growth ecosystem. We wanted to protect not just the alpine gems, but the entire North Cascades ecosystem, capable of sustaining a viable grizzly bear population. We wanted to infuse new ideas of science and conservation to keep the Northwest wild, with large interconnected wild ecosystems from the Washington Coast to the British Columbia Rockies.

I think the first quote is pretty good... He doesn't seem to be encouraging wolves in the OP.  Do you read it some other way??

As for the second part- I agree.  We need to protect old growth forest.  CNW has collaborated for thinning and logging projects to restore forests in NE Washington and have supported a plan to increase yield here by ~200%


Coyotehunter do you know if CNW supports ALl legal forms of sport hunting?

I don't know, but I doubt they do.  I don't think they should have to support ALL types of hunting to be an ally or collaborator.  I don't support hunting with the use of drones, or extreme long range hunting... but I'm hardly an anti hunter.

They're not a hunting group.  That is clear, and that should be ok.  They are the most reasonable non-hunting centric conservation group in the NW and to sit in the corner with our arms crossed and not engage is foolish and is going to lead to less hunting opportunities.  You guys can take a hard line and scream at your computer screens all day, it's not going to make a difference, but if our user group is not represented by reasonable, thoughtful hunters we are going to miss out on opportunities to collaborate and protect our sport.


Offline ribka

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2017, 06:52:12 AM »
So as hunters are only chance is to link up with a thoughtful man who spent 20 years as an ecoterrorist and has lobbied politicians in our state to shut down hunting seasons and whose group collaborated with other anti hunting groups to shut down hunting?

Ok now that makes perfect sense

Thanks

Offline JLS

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2017, 07:35:23 AM »
So as hunters are only chance is to link up with a thoughtful man who spent 20 years as an ecoterrorist and has lobbied politicians in our state to shut down hunting seasons and whose group collaborated with other anti hunting groups to shut down hunting?

Ok now that makes perfect sense

Thanks

If you think have a chance in Hades of EVER having a wolf season without collaborating with groups like CNW, you are sorely mistaken.  So, I guess it depends on what you are hoping to achieve.

If your goal is only to discredit a group in such a way they are never considered a future collaborative partner, then carry on. 
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline Special T

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2017, 07:50:51 AM »
I thought our only hope was the required number of Breeding pairs... Not many of us believe they are any kind of allie to actually start hunting wolves... instead they will do everything delay that day.
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Offline JLS

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2017, 08:07:50 AM »
I thought our only hope was the required number of Breeding pairs... Not many of us believe they are any kind of allie to actually start hunting wolves... instead they will do everything delay that day.

If you think it was strictly about numbers and scientific data, then you haven't been paying attention to what just happened north of us in the province of British Columbia.


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Offline ribka

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Re: Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2017, 08:13:04 AM »


What is cnw's target numbers for wolves? They refuse to answer this question. Why?members of CNW are active in anti hunting organizations that are filing lawsuits to outlaw all hunting including wolves.

Based upon their staff and past lobbying they would never allow any hunting of wolves in WA  and will continue to lobby to shut down hunting of other animals as they already have done and continue to do so.



Why would the hunting community collaborate with an anti hunting organization?

Regarding BC-

The only proven way to control wolves is by trapping and poison as  very experienced wildlife managers in Idaho and Montana realized again
CNW has come out against all trapping and poisoning to control predators
Fact!

Please feel free to educate us

You can buy their lies but CNW is certainly no ally of the sporting community



« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 08:18:44 AM by ribka »

Offline JLS

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Duplicity in the wolf debate
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2017, 08:26:08 AM »
When I referenced BC, I am referencing the recent trophy ban on grizzly bear hunting. I never once said CNW is an ally in a broader sense. They may be, or they may not depending on your viewpoint. I will just reiterate that they will be a very important ally in developing a wolf hunting season if/when the time comes


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« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 08:56:15 AM by JLS »
Matthew 7:13-14

 

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