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Author Topic: High Hunt - Why Popular?  (Read 2400 times)

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 12:34:01 PM »
Can I drop the hammer on a deer sized animal out to and beyond 1,000 yards?  Yes, given the right environmental conditions, no problem.

Would I?...No, not necessarily.  I prefer to get as close as reasonably possible to take one perfect, clean, ethical shot that will immediately dispatch the animal and allow for the easiest possible retrieval of meat, horns and hide.  I'm primarily a meat hunter and I want to conserve as much of that delicious 100% organic meat for table fare as possible.  And, I feel like I owe it to the animal that it depart this mortal plane as quickly and humanely as possible.

Should others?...Judging from what I've seen at the various shooting ranges I frequent and the Introductory Long Range Shooting Class I instruct, only a handful out of maybe 10,000 shooters or so have the skillset and tools to reliably and consistently make long range shots. The rest should be well under the 400 yard mark, with the bulk at under 200 yards or less.

Now...What I believe is completely unethical is the use of handheld radios to direct a hunter onto game.  There is not a single sportsmen's organization I know of that considers it "fair chase". It's pure laziness, it's cheating, and it should be illegal.  I'm contemplating sponsoring legislation to make it so.

I witnessed an older guy sitting in the bottom of a valley call his son in on the top of three bucks during the High Buck opener this year.  The arrogant punk - who has an idiotic habit of wearing running shoes in the backcountry and messing up others' hunts, appeared to have missed the largest buck that had a taller somewhat oddly asymmetrical rack at less than 50 yards and ended up panic shooting a very small three-point as the herd spooked and ran uphill through a clearing towards him.  He took exactly ZERO time in ascertaining whether or not he had fatally shot the larger buck that ran into some very thick and steep brush.  For all I know the kid shot both and they tagged both or even worse...simply let the other one rot in the brush. (I observed him deboning the dink as his father walked back to camp.)  I suspect that is exactly what happened since I never saw them or that larger asymmetrical buck the remaining 8 days I was in there.   Watching the whole thing unfold through my spotter was infuriating. 



« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:41:03 PM by Bushcraft »
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Offline yakimanoob

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 01:06:14 PM »
Long range hunting is fair play to me.  Learning to get close and learning to shoot far are two different strategies towards the same goal; to each their own.

Target practice in an open rifle unit when there are obviously active hunters is just plain awful and ought to be illegal, IMO.

there's open hunts and active hunters from august to January for most big game and in some areas an open hunt year round for one thing or another. its called public land and its part of the deal. don't want to be interrupted get further back...

Fair point.  We as hunters don't have any higher claim to use the land for what we want to do than the rec shooters do. 

Offline yakimanoob

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 01:11:31 PM »
I witnessed an older guy sitting in the bottom of a valley call his son in on the top of three bucks during the High Buck opener this year.  The arrogant punk - who has an idiotic habit of wearing running shoes in the backcountry and messing up others' hunts, appeared to have missed the largest buck that had a taller somewhat oddly asymmetrical rack at less than 50 yards and ended up panic shooting a very small three-point as the herd spooked and ran uphill through a clearing towards him.  He took exactly ZERO time in ascertaining whether or not he had fatally shot the larger buck that ran into some very thick and steep brush.  For all I know the kid shot both and they tagged both or even worse...simply let the other one rot in the brush. (I observed him deboning the dink as his father walked back to camp.)  I suspect that is exactly what happened since I never saw them or that larger asymmetrical buck the remaining 8 days I was in there.   Watching the whole thing unfold through my spotter was infuriating.

Yeah, taking a shot at a second animal without determining if you've killed the first is pretty awful.  Were you able to watch the first buck for awhile?  If you saw him drop, I would report those guys to the rangers in a heartbeat. 

Now, that said, running shoes in the back country seems like an odd thing to be upset about  :chuckle:

Offline MerriamMagician

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
 Congrats muleracks, what an epic picture!!  :tup:
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Offline 2MANY

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 01:35:31 PM »
"Now, that said, running shoes in the back country seems like an odd thing to be upset about  :chuckle:"

Running shoes and trekking poles make me sick. :)

Offline Eric M

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 02:11:08 PM »
"Now, that said, running shoes in the back country seems like an odd thing to be upset about  :chuckle:"

Running shoes and trekking poles make me sick. :)

Trekking poles used to really bother me. Now I'm contemplating buying a pair.

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »
I witnessed an older guy sitting in the bottom of a valley call his son in on the top of three bucks during the High Buck opener this year.  The arrogant punk - who has an idiotic habit of wearing running shoes in the backcountry and messing up others' hunts, appeared to have missed the largest buck that had a taller somewhat oddly asymmetrical rack at less than 50 yards and ended up panic shooting a very small three-point as the herd spooked and ran uphill through a clearing towards him.  He took exactly ZERO time in ascertaining whether or not he had fatally shot the larger buck that ran into some very thick and steep brush.  For all I know the kid shot both and they tagged both or even worse...simply let the other one rot in the brush. (I observed him deboning the dink as his father walked back to camp.)  I suspect that is exactly what happened since I never saw them or that larger asymmetrical buck the remaining 8 days I was in there.   Watching the whole thing unfold through my spotter was infuriating.

Yeah, taking a shot at a second animal without determining if you've killed the first is pretty awful.  Were you able to watch the first buck for awhile?  If you saw him drop, I would report those guys to the rangers in a heartbeat. 

Now, that said, running shoes in the back country seems like an odd thing to be upset about  :chuckle:

Haha! No, I'm not upset about the running shoes thing. To each their own.  I just think it's a moronic choice given the abundance of high quality hunting boots on the market.  I've watched him slip and slide around the steep mountainsides like an ounce-counting idiot for a few years and it's only a matter of time before he get's caught with a little skiff of snow on steep, slippery vegetation and eats it really bad or dies, thereby necessitating Search & Rescue to go save whatever remains of him after he slides off a cliff. :bdid:

To answer your question, it was impossible to determine from my vantage point where the bigger buck ended up after it ducked into the thick cover of alpine fir and slide alder. The older guy was less than forthcoming about the details when we briefly exchanged words about their unethical use of radios. I suppose I could have stuck around and watched them but that would have consumed who knows how much time and I doubt I would have found a corpse for proof had they abandoned it.

I usually take a radio with scanner, but didn't this year since I was rolling solo and didn't want to carry any unnecessary weight. Next year we'll record their antics, catch 'em on video and make 'em famous.   :chuckle:
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Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 08:59:02 AM »
Lord Grizzly...you state that I need to get further back into the woods...that makes me chuckle at your assumptions of me! (fyi, my 11 year old and I did 19 1/2 miles on the opening weekend of the High Hunt...just to put it into perspective...as this kid and I do several backcountry trips each year and he out-hikes most guys in their twenties).

To clarify the "long shots interrupting our stalk". It was a large basin, we were on one side and the other hunters were on the other side, the bucks were in the bottom, right in the middle. There were two finger ridges in the middle of the basin, that would put the hunter anywhere from 100 to 350 yards away from the feeding bucks. The bucks were in a pocket opening with fir trees surrounding them and no way to see the routes to the finger ridges...basically a "perfect situation" for a stalk. Which we opted to do and as we began the other group decided to lobby shots from the far ridge. The bucks didn't even know what was going on and didn't move. We got set up on the middle ridge and the deer busted when the group decided to lob more shots in and hit one of the deer (the deer was never found by the other group). I knew those bucks were feeding in brush taller than they were and that we had to get close enough to make sure that not only could we make the shot but also be able to locate the deer (looking down onto them from above vantage point is totally different than when you get into the area on the same level). We eventually made our way into a basin and ran into one of the guys who shot from the far ridge...nice guy, fairly new at killing deer (he has been hunting awhile...but killing deer and hunting are two different things). Turns out the young man was in the Army...and is a sniper!...but given how excited he was about the "big buck!" (20-22 inch 4x4, standard frame, nice forks, still stripping the velvet off) it was obvious that the hunt and the chance at a big buck caused some "buck fever". He knew he hit the deer "a little far back" (it has happened to us all). We had a great discussion on stalking the deer and he agreed that it would have been best, he added that he really did not see us and was not trying to shoot the buck out from under us (I believe him) and he was very humble about it all. They never found the buck, but I jumped it at 50 yards about a 1/4 mile away, it was gut shot. I took off after it but it made it through the timber and I couldn't find any further sign of it in the mountain ash and thick brush. I searched for two hours and never jumped it again.

Goes to show that you can train at the range all you want, even prepare for a combat mission (sniper) and yet still get excited and make a bad shot at a deer. My son asked me about this and I told him that when a soldier goes into combat they are taught what their role is, practice their role, and have orders, even then its a shock at first but eventually it becomes a "job" but when hunting it can be different, you see a big buck, you know that you can "make the shot" but for some reason adrenaline takes over, this is for fun, not for life saving...I guess what I am trying to say is that you can get all the range time in the world and be the best at the 1,000 yard competitions but until you are presented with the biggest buck you've seen your body might react differently. I rarely get buck fever, but if I had a doe permit and I know I will get to go shoot a deer that day I can barely sleep the night before, and get all worked up, its why I hunt!

Grade 

PS. If the young hunter is on here, please don't take offense that I gave the details of the day...you are a great hunter, as you immediately recognized the mistake and how you could have stalked the deer. That's the important part of this lesson, learning to be a better "hunter" not just a "better marksman".
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Offline yakimanoob

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Re: High Hunt - Why Popular?
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2017, 09:12:30 AM »
PS. If the young hunter is on here, please don't take offense that I gave the details of the day...you are a great hunter, as you immediately recognized the mistake and how you could have stalked the deer. That's the important part of this lesson, learning to be a better "hunter" not just a "better marksman".
:yeah:

Thanks for posting, Grade.  It's a good reminder for everyone to approach each shot with reserve and respect.  The very best shooters among us (and I doubt anyone would argue our military snipers are the best shooters among us) can still miss.