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Author Topic: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer  (Read 2902 times)

Offline lokidog

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The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« on: September 28, 2017, 10:01:19 PM »
http://www.islandssounder.com/news/san-juan-islands-are-overrun-by-deer/

Some interesting discussions on Facebook surrounding this.  One guy thinks that people should just ask the state for depradation permits... I wish - Hey WDFW give me three deer tags, the deer are eating my roses.....    :rolleyes:

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 10:36:40 PM »
Guess they need to give some hunters permission to hunt their property.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline lokidog

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 11:23:59 PM »
That's what I've been saying on the Facebook thread.

Offline E35alex

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 05:20:24 AM »
I know a few people on Friday Harbor. They do not allow hunting on their property nor are they ok with hunters.  :dunno:

The closer I get to nature, the farther I am from idiots.

Offline RB

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 07:41:43 AM »
Never understood why people complain about wildlife but when the solution is to hunt and harvest the excess people immediately don't want anybody to kill "their" wildlife. As with other programs i would imagine there is a solution that would benefit all parties, land owner gets more $$ to let people hunt, hunters have to go through an orientation and be proficient with weapon choice and a WDFW representative needs to be available at all times.

How about rather than having to apply for second permit they make it over the counter and increase the limit? Even increase it more if you are a resident of the island, areas of SE AK do this. I would be inclined to go to the islands if there was better access and could harvest multiple Deer.  :twocents:
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Offline goldenhtr

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 07:58:42 AM »
“I just cannot find enough places for enough people to go to kill enough deer to make a difference,” she said. “I’m not 100 percent convinced we could ever reduce the population with hunting as a tool alone. Because we can’t get enough people out on the landscape to kill enough deer we’re not ever going to reduce the population with hunting. We’re never going to reduce it, probably, totally all over the island. Don’t really know because we’ve never really tried.”

I know let's bring back a pack of wolfs on each island after all that was the natural way. :o ;) :chuckle:
Founders for militia definition: ..[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788. No founder is on record arguing with this definition - many support it. Then there's Patrick Henry: "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most

Offline Bob33

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 08:01:58 AM »
I hunt deer on a private San Juan island and have for over 30 years. The deer population lives on the edge of starvation and survival. It's sad that more can't be taken via hunting. I know that Ruth and others from WDFW have made concerted efforts to allow more hunting and obtain more permits but have been stymied.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Shrimper

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 08:07:12 AM »
How about rather than having to apply for second permit they make it over the counter and increase the limit? Even increase it more if you are a resident of the island, areas of SE AK do this. I would be inclined to go to the islands if there was better access and could harvest multiple Deer.  :twocents:

If that was the case I suspect these tags would be mostly purchased by the residence that don't approve of the hunting.  Only thing keeping them from doing that now is the hunter safety course requirement for applying for the tags.

After hunting many years on Orcas this is my personal experience.

There is hunting opportunity on Orcas but just like anywhere else you need to know people.  The biggest barrier is the San Juan Island Trust, they keep buying a lot of the large tracts of land and the trust does not allow hunting.

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Offline lokidog

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 08:46:08 AM »

There is hunting opportunity on Orcas but just like anywhere else you need to know people.  The biggest barrier is the San Juan Island Trust, they keep buying a lot of the large tracts of land and the trust does not allow hunting.

Bingo!

Offline RB

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 09:25:40 AM »

There is hunting opportunity on Orcas but just like anywhere else you need to know people.  The biggest barrier is the San Juan Island Trust, they keep buying a lot of the large tracts of land and the trust does not allow hunting.

Bingo!


Who is the San Juan Island Trust?
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Offline NoBark

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 09:30:46 AM »
A good winter kill and starvation event on the Island would be beneficial in opening the eyes of the preservationists that dislike the conservationists.   8)

Offline jackmaster

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 09:38:43 AM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:
my grandpa always said "if it aint broke dont fix it"

Offline Gobble Doc

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 10:09:58 AM »
Under Obama one of the last couple chunks of public land to hunt on San Juan Island went away. I'm relieved that someone could tell me what was in my best interests.


Funding approved for purchase of Mitchell Hill; land will be annexed into San Juan Island National Historical Park
•   Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 4:20pm

Mitchell Hill, a 312-acre chunk of land that includes trails and a pristine portion of road built beginning in 1853 by the Hudson’s Bay Co., is on its way to becoming part of San Juan Island National Historical Park.
President Obama on Friday signed the bill that provides the funding for the purchase.
“With President Obama’s signature, the National Park Service now has $6 million available to purchase Mitchell Hill,” said Rep. Rick Larsen, who sponsored the bill. “This funding is a huge win for San Juan Island residents and future generations of visitors to San Juan Island National Historical Park.”
The U.S. House and Senate on Thursday approved appropriations legislation that includes the $6 million secured by Larsen. This funding was included in the conference report of the Interior and Environment Appropriations bill.
Larsen said in a press release at the time of the bill’s passage, “Protecting the historical and natural values of Mitchell Hill has been a priority for me for the last several years. Mitchell Hill is both a great place to go hiking and the home of an important part of San Juan Island history. Funding for Mitchell Hill will enhance recreational and educational opportunities for the over 250,000 visitors who visit San Juan Island National Historical Park each year.”
The funding will be used by the National Park Service to acquire more than 300 acres of land currently being managed by the Washington state Department of Natural Resources. Selling Mitchell Hill to the National Park Service has earned widespread support in the local community, including the endorsement of the National Parks Service, San Juan County, DNR and the San Juan Island Trails Committee.
Peter Dederich, superintendent of San Juan Island National Historical Park, said acquisition of Mitchell Hill will result in federal protection of the hill’s historical resources.
Within the 312 acres is a portion of the road that troops used to travel between American and English camps during the joint military occupation of 1859-1872. The road was initially built as a sheep run by Hudson’s Bay Co. and Cowichan laborers, and later improved by troops. Visible along portions of the road is rip-rap — rock placed by British troops to reinforce the road — as well as wheel ruts from wagons that once rolled along the road.
Mitchell Hill also supports various native plants and Garry oaks.
“The military road, in essence, captures the period before the U.S. took formal possession of San Juan Island when the boundary dispute was resolved,” said National Park historian Mike Vouri, author of three books about the joint military occupation era.
Vouri said Gov. James Douglas and a work crew initiated the first work on the trail, which became a sheep highway linking the grazing areas on the north and south ends of the island. American and British troops further developed the trail in the 1860s during the military occupation to facilitate communication between their camps.
“The military road symbolized peacekeeping, it tied one end of island with the other,” Vouri said. “This is very much a part of the island’s heritage.”
Besides its historical value, Mitchell Hill is also treasured by bicyclists, hikers and horseback riders.
David Dehlendorf, chairman of the San Juan Island Trails Committee, said the committee hopes to work with the national park to develop a management plan for the area. He said he hopes horses and non-motorized bikes will continue to be allowed to use the hill’s trails.
Dederich said acquisition of Mitchell Hill will be followed by a planning process to determine “appropriate visitor activities,” how trails will be maintained, and how the overall area will be managed. He said interpretive or trail signage could be installed. He said that once Mitchell Hill becomes part of the national park, the Code of Federal Regulations will apply, and “some of those regulations are stricter than the state’s.”

http://www.sanjuanjournal.com/news/funding-approved-for-purchase-of-mitchell-hill-land-will-be-annexed-into-san-juan-island-national-historical-park/



Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 10:17:55 AM »
Each island just needs their own pack of wolves, problem solved.  :IBCOOL:

Oh except Decatur Island, wouldn't wish that off on Lokidog.  :chuckle:
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 12:38:47 PM by Boss .300 winmag »
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Offline singleshot12

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 10:52:14 AM »
No need for wolves. Coyotes would keep the numbers in check. Maybe once the deer hugging island residents observe a coyote pulling out a fawn from a doe's uterus will they possibly think allowing hunting is more humane and a better way to keep deer numbers in check  :dunno:
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Offline lokidog

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 12:00:25 PM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:

There was discussion about cougar and bear....

We had a jerk enviro here on Decatur that wanted to bring in coyotes.   >:(  He died a few years ago in a hiking fall, so no worries about that now.....   :o

Offline Special T

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 02:08:25 PM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:

If it were possible to live trap a couple of be all for it.  The state rep for that area lives on Oscar and is a anti hunting wacko
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Offline luvmystang67

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 02:44:26 PM »
I think it'd be great to bring back all these natural predators we supposedly killed off.

I'm pretty sure there's no tangible evidence that permanent populations of real predators lived on the islands over any long period of time since the last ice age.

I'm from Friday Harbor.  Most of the land I used to hunt has been picked up by the Land Preservation Trust.  It basically becomes county-owned land and then it is leased back to farmers.  We'll see how long it can keep up.  As the good ol crew passes on, a group run primarily by dems dictates the new order on the property.  They claim to keep it used as it was historically, they conveniently omit hunting from the history books.

It is thick with deer though, almost to the point of being very little fun past the age of 10.

Online baker5150

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 02:59:17 PM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:

There was discussion about cougar and bear....

We had a jerk enviro here on Decatur that wanted to bring in coyotes.   >:(  He died a few years ago in a hiking fall, so no worries about that now.....   :o

Walker?

Offline lokidog

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 04:35:29 PM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:

There was discussion about cougar and bear....

We had a jerk enviro here on Decatur that wanted to bring in coyotes.   >:(  He died a few years ago in a hiking fall, so no worries about that now.....   :o

Walker?

Yes

Offline hollymaster

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 05:33:07 PM »
Loki go on that Facebook page and recommend that a couple packs of wolves be released on the islands and see what kind of response you get😊 Please post them up here :chuckle:

There was discussion about cougar and bear....

We had a jerk enviro here on Decatur that wanted to bring in coyotes.   >:(  He died a few years ago in a hiking fall, so no worries about that now.....   :o

Wacko?
Fixed it for you.  :chuckle:

Offline RB

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 05:50:33 PM »
Live trap them and relocate to any of the Puget sound GMU's and problem solved. The antis have a "safe" solution and the hunters have a solution, and a full freezer!  8)
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Offline fishnfur

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 10:03:21 PM »
There's no reason that land trust properties must be anti-hunting.  Over-browsing of native flora is very detrimental to those critical environments.  We just need to find the right messenger to persuade the "powers that be" that limited hunts are in the best interest of the environment being held in trust.

On the other hand, my extended family and I are in the process of selling a chunk of land on Guemes to the Skagit Land Trust.  They probably don't allow hunting either, so never mind what I said.... :o  We should probably all move on and find some other pass-time, like fishing, or darts.
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Offline Schmalzfam

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2017, 06:04:18 AM »
I have a chunk of private land 80acres on Orcas I can hunt.
The landowner was telling me a few years back that someone from the game dept. Was talking about bringing mule deer back over AGAIN, to increase the size.....
She said it had been done in the past.
Has anyone else heard of this?
More public access would be a great way to start decreasing the numbers, but a lot of hunters avoid the islands, due to the lack of access.
Bringing the island genes, possible diseases, etc. To the mainland,  I think would be a mistake.
Not to mention, that some are so domesticated and clueless you would be just ringing a dinner bell for all the predators.


Offline fishnfur

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Re: The Poor Orcas Islanders... too many deer
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2017, 11:12:15 AM »
Mule deer to the SJI?  Sounds like bad science (at least based on the studies I read and commented on about 18 months ago). 

Those island Blacktail are the size they are because of their environment, not genetics.  Removal of predators resulted in too many deer, which have over-utilized the food resources available and created scarcity of browse for the entire population.  When food is scarce for maternal does, it results in underweight fawns at birth.  Those fawns must then try to thrive through the same scarcity of food during their early growth phases.  As you might guess, after suffering malnutrition since they were just a few cells growing in the mothers placenta, a population of abnormally small adult deer eventually becomes the norm.   

If you took a freshly impregnated island doe and put her in an environment without food shortage, the fawn would likely be of normal birth size and grow to normal adult BT proportions, assuming it had adequate food during it's early years. 
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