collapse

Author Topic: Should 209 primers be legal?  (Read 10903 times)

Offline Jellymon

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1163
  • Location: Spanaway
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #225 on: October 29, 2017, 12:13:33 PM »
While I agree that if 209 primers were allowed it wouldn't make a huge difference if everything else stayed the same, (a potentially big if that I'll get to in a moment) you cn't argue that it won't make a difference, then argue that there will be less hang fires and less wounded deer. That argument essentially says that it will make a difference.

But the big "IF" is, IF muzzleloaders become more efficient, more people would be willing to hunt with them. That has the potential to be both bad and good. The bad would be more crowded woods during muzzleloader seasons. And muzzleloaders already have the worst seasons and least area to hunt of the weapon choices.  So it's understandable some diehards would be a little touchy about more competition in a limited season.

We've seen it with bow hunting. There is no doubt that compound bows have made it easier for many people to use a bow to harvest an animal. And it led to more people hunting with a bow and more animals harvested with a bow. Back in the 60s and early 70s before the proliferation of compounds, you didn't see a lot of people hunting with bows even though you could hunt any season you wanted. Pulling a 60# + bow and holding it for a good shot wasn't something everyone could do. and most shots were probably 25 yards or less. With compounds, I regularly read about shots being made out to 100 yards and beyond. I'm not going to tell you what I think of that. I'm just going to say that compounds made bowhunting more attractive to more hunters. Add in longer seasons, earlier season, and rut seasons and archery hunting has boomed.

If there were still just the few archery units and shorter seasons from back then, it would make for some miserable hunting now that you are stuck hunting with one weapon. But what happened was, archers got more political pull because there were more of them. Even though they were more efficient, they got more time and more area and rut hunts because they still argue that they aren't that efficient and need an advantage in time and area to be successful. In reality, archers today are every bit as efficient as a muzzy hunter.  I'd even argue that they can get off more shots than a blackpowder hunter.  About the only advantage a muzzleloader has over a bow is being able to shoot through brush without messing up your shot. I know there are guys who will take longer shots with a bow than I will take with my muzzy.

Who knows, maybe if there were more black powder hunters, there would be more and better seasons? Right now all they get is table scraps except in a few instances.

Yep, my compound is much more effective than my muzzleloader that can shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100yds, has dropped almost every animal its shot in its tracks with one shot, and in my hands has a range of 125yds.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 12:19:05 PM by Jellymon »

Offline Twang

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Marysville
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #226 on: November 02, 2017, 09:40:22 AM »
It is a skill that takes effort to keep yer powder dry and your ignition ready.  Part of what I love about the sport. Learn To be proficient with your weapon. 
What is next, brass cartridges with black powder.  Do you get it??  Go modern and leave me be!

Offline Biggerhammer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4816
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Powder, primer, bullet JUNKIE.
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #227 on: November 12, 2017, 01:54:02 PM »
Puuuuuuft! I went with "Yes" on the survey.
Embrace the hate.

A man with experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion.

Offline steeleywhopper

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1203
  • Location: Snohomish co.
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #228 on: November 12, 2017, 03:08:11 PM »
It is a skill that takes effort to keep yer powder dry and your ignition ready.  Part of what I love about the sport. Learn To be proficient with your weapon. 
What is next, brass cartridges with black powder.  Do you get it??  Go modern and leave me be!

The great thing is that you would still be able to use musket caps, flint, or whatever else option there is. 209 just gives guys another option and you still gotta keep that powder dry. I vote yes for 209

Offline Brushcrawler

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 149
  • Location: West side
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #229 on: December 22, 2017, 03:13:35 PM »
Anybody know if they have discussed this yet?
There is not enough wilderness left in the world, or in the hearts of men.

Offline Calvin Rayborn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 942
  • Location: Columbia Basin
  • Groups: NRA Life Member, Amateur Trapshooting Association - Member
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #230 on: December 28, 2017, 08:57:07 PM »
United States Musket Caps all the way!!!

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 1894
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #231 on: December 29, 2017, 07:50:05 AM »
United States Musket Caps all the way!!!

Might want to check that - most US manufactures have gone back to producing musket caps with only a re-enactment charge in them.  They are not as hot as they once were.

You might check and make sure you have the multiple use musket caps
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline GoexBlackhorn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 33
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #232 on: December 29, 2017, 10:59:23 AM »
OMG!
There are folks here against 209 ignition?
Please naysayers, get back into that outhouse then. Cut the electricity line and buy more candles.

New-age sure-fire technology over weak ignition systems any day and twice on Sunday.

Offline Jonathan_S

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 7170
  • Location: Medical Lake
  • Volleyfire Brigade
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #233 on: December 29, 2017, 12:46:57 PM »
OMG!
There are folks here against 209 ignition?
Please naysayers, get back into that outhouse then. Cut the electricity line and buy more candles.

New-age sure-fire technology over weak ignition systems any day and twice on Sunday.

The point many of us are trying to articulate and which you are skipping over in your insult is that change begets change. Also and unfortunately, change by the WDFW is rarely a positive thing for us.

I’d never call my setup a weak ignition system either  :twocents:
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline GoexBlackhorn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 33
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #234 on: December 30, 2017, 07:03:48 PM »
You may not call it weak. But those that have seen the advantages of 209 ignition systems sure call it weak.

Your state-game regulators field call all the time and many are complaints. Then when the complaints start sounding the same over & over & over, they begin to take surveys, begin to folder those same complaints - then begin to have meetings on those same complaints..

Then they begin to address how to fix those complaints. So what you have in Washington is irate hunters who want a better ignition system implemented.

If you like yours, then keep it. You obviously haven't been stung yet - meaning your ML hasn't failed to fire the powder, with an 8-pt buck standing 20 yards in front of you.

I hope your luck continues. But never tell those who were stung that their ignition source wasn't the problem - wasn't the reason why their gun didn't go bang.

If you do, then hopefully they don't punch you in the noggin for telling them it was their fault -- when in truth, it was the State Of Washington's fault for being behind the times.

Offline Duckslayer89

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 2832
  • Location: Orting
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #235 on: December 30, 2017, 07:14:19 PM »
You may not call it weak. But those that have seen the advantages of 209 ignition systems sure call it weak.

Your state-game regulators field call all the time and many are complaints. Then when the complaints start sounding the same over & over & over, they begin to take surveys, begin to folder those same complaints - then begin to have meetings on those same complaints..

Then they begin to address how to fix those complaints. So what you have in Washington is irate hunters who want a better ignition system implemented.

If you like yours, then keep it. You obviously haven't been stung yet - meaning your ML hasn't failed to fire the powder, with an 8-pt buck standing 20 yards in front of you.

I hope your luck continues. But never tell those who were stung that their ignition source wasn't the problem - wasn't the reason why their gun didn't go bang.

If you do, then hopefully they don't punch you in the noggin for telling them it was their fault -- when in truth, it was the State Of Washington's fault for being behind the times.

Not to mention dangerous hangfires that could wound animals and send bullets where they weren't intended. I remember reading a thread a while ago about a guy shooting the antler off his buck then killing it later with a hangfire. Luckily he didn't wound it

Offline hunter399

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 1337
  • Location: northeast washington
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #236 on: December 30, 2017, 07:44:10 PM »
What I don't get is you choose a primitive weapon,to hunt with,then u wanna complain about it,something that was your own choice to begin with.I say go for it add 209 primers then go ahead and add scopes to muzzle loaders,then just add your season to modern firearm,cause keep complaining and that's what you might get . :twocents:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 1894
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #237 on: December 30, 2017, 07:50:33 PM »
What I don't get is you choose a primitive weapon,to hunt with,then u wanna complain about it,something that was your own choice to begin with.I say go for it add 209 primers then go ahead and add scopes to muzzle loaders,then just add your season to modern firearm,cause keep complaining and that's what you might get . :twocents:

It is not a primitive weapons season it is a short range weapon season!  Primitive ML's are not required.  The State makes requirements to limit the ability of the ML to a true short range rifle.

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 10111
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #238 on: December 30, 2017, 07:58:59 PM »
You may not call it weak. But those that have seen the advantages of 209 ignition systems sure call it weak.

Your state-game regulators field call all the time and many are complaints. Then when the complaints start sounding the same over & over & over, they begin to take surveys, begin to folder those same complaints - then begin to have meetings on those same complaints..

Then they begin to address how to fix those complaints. So what you have in Washington is irate hunters who want a better ignition system implemented.

If you like yours, then keep it. You obviously haven't been stung yet - meaning your ML hasn't failed to fire the powder, with an 8-pt buck standing 20 yards in front of you.

I hope your luck continues. But never tell those who were stung that their ignition source wasn't the problem - wasn't the reason why their gun didn't go bang.

If you do, then hopefully they don't punch you in the noggin for telling them it was their fault -- when in truth, it was the State Of Washington's fault for being behind the times.

Not to mention dangerous hangfires that could wound animals and send bullets where they weren't intended. I remember reading a thread a while ago about a guy shooting the antler off his buck then killing it later with a hangfire. Luckily he didn't wound it
If wounding is the concern, then scopes should be allowed.  But then that leads to maybe it should all go modern for all the seasons and let each hunter pick their own weapon.

Offline hunter399

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 1337
  • Location: northeast washington
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #239 on: December 30, 2017, 08:26:54 PM »
Ya a lot of people that do use primitive ,long bows,traditional muzzle loaders will complain,then we all lose some season to give them a season. :twocents:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

 

* Recent Topics

Spring in the Wenaha by 92xj
[Today at 10:25:13 AM]


Our families ID bear season by n_mathews13
[Today at 10:21:58 AM]


Stung by UPS/Ebay by Fl0und3rz
[Today at 10:18:11 AM]


Fall season will be much longer bag limit 4 by baldopepper
[Today at 10:13:52 AM]


LTB kuiu Icon bags by jackelope
[Today at 10:03:42 AM]


Therm-a-Rest LuxuryLite UltraLite Cot - $120 by Fl0und3rz
[Today at 09:56:17 AM]


Shrimping changes?! by Dmulcahy
[Today at 09:53:40 AM]


JOBS: Looking for work/Looking to hire by TeacherMan
[Today at 09:48:24 AM]


Elk tag by bobcat
[Today at 09:39:21 AM]


three days of great shooting, then it falls apart by elkchaser54
[Today at 09:38:44 AM]


Pateros area deer ?? by cbond3318
[Today at 09:25:46 AM]


Montana Draw Results by CaNINE
[Today at 09:23:09 AM]


2018 Sheds. Post them here! by Tbob
[Today at 09:16:36 AM]


What happened to all the stocked trout??? by Gobble Doc
[Today at 09:08:50 AM]


First Turkie tag in 10 years by Gobble Doc
[Today at 09:05:21 AM]


A few thoughts on mountain goat permits by jackelope
[Today at 08:54:01 AM]


Black Gold Ascent Ambush Single Pin Bowsight - $125 by theslice
[Today at 08:48:18 AM]


What’s your recipe? by Machias
[Today at 08:41:37 AM]


Balancing Big Game and Waterfowl by h2ofowlr
[Today at 08:19:22 AM]


Too many guns. by h2ofowlr
[Today at 08:11:25 AM]