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Author Topic: Should 209 primers be legal?  (Read 8594 times)

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2017, 08:26:51 PM »
Yes on 209 primers

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2017, 08:33:33 PM »
100% yes.
It's 2017. We are advancing and it gives options to hunters. We need not limit anything at this time.
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline teanawayslayer

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2017, 08:38:23 PM »
Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons.  :twocents:
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Offline full choke

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2017, 08:41:25 PM »
No.
Winter is coming.

Offline Alpine Mojo

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2017, 08:48:16 PM »
Suck it up and enjoy what you have already been given.

That statement sums up what the anti-gun politicians have been telling us for years.   :tdown:
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Me:  (Gazing into the distance as a bald eagle screeches)  "I'm always free"

Offline SeaRun1

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 08:49:19 PM »
Yes...

Offline hunter399

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2017, 08:54:20 PM »
Voted no!
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline Stein

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2017, 08:54:36 PM »
I tend toward no unless the notion of splitting the season into primitive and muzzleloader is an option.  The primitive weapon idea in my mind is something with a) very limited range, b) open sights and c) something that doesn't always go bang when you pull the trigger.

I really don't know how much more of an advantage against the weather a 209 does, so I do admit this isn't a very well informed opinion.  But, if you get 95+% ignition on the west side during your average week of hunting, I think you have something that is much different than the traditional muzzleloader in your hands.

I could get jacked about a true flintlock season though, wood stock, plain metal, 10 feet long.

Offline HardCorpsHuntr

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2017, 08:57:09 PM »
NO, and I love ML hunting.
"Fast is fine. Accuracy is final. You need to learn to shoot slow, real fast." -Wyatt Earp

Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2017, 09:03:19 PM »
Before I started reading the posts I was against the use of 209s. My thinking was that this hunting method should be more difficult and not be given another edge. After further reflection I have changed my opinion to yes, which I will put on my survey. This is more of a means than an ends argument, the addition of 209 primers does not make the weapon more effective, increase the range, or more powerful, just more reliable.

This would be akin to mandating the type of release or rests for archery.  Finger or string loop releases only, no mechanical releases. No drop away rests or Whisker Biscuits, stationary rests only. These are not things that increase the overall power or range of the system, just the reliability and accuracy assuring the chance of a more clean kill when the opportunity arises.

Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons.  :twocents:

No, using a crossbow during archery would be like using one of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders that drive .375 caliber bullets close to 3000 fps and are accurate over 300 yards. The 209 does not appreciably increase the effective range of a muzzleloader.

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2017, 09:08:51 PM »
Before I started reading the posts I was against the use of 209s. My thinking was that this hunting method should be more difficult and not be given another edge. After further reflection I have changed my opinion to yes, which I will put on my survey. This is more of a means than an ends argument, the addition of 209 primers does not make the weapon more effective, increase the range, or more powerful, just more reliable.

This would be akin to mandating the type of release or rests for archery.  Finger or string loop releases only, no mechanical releases. No drop away rests or Whisker Biscuits, stationary rests only. These are not things that increase the overall power or range of the system, just the reliability and accuracy assuring the chance of a more clean kill when the opportunity arises.
Well said  :tup:
Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons.  :twocents:

No, using a crossbow during archery would be like using one of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders that drive .375 caliber bullets close to 3000 fps and are accurate over 300 yards. The 209 does not appreciably increase the effective range of a muzzleloader.

Offline snowshoes22

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2017, 09:11:33 PM »
yes for 209 primers. No advantage difference in my opinion. No to scopes 100%
"I'd rather have a slow hit than a fast miss"

Offline Mallardmasher

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2017, 09:13:00 PM »
Definitely NO. You get better seasons than modern rifle because the odds are less that you will kill something while being provided a less crowded field at a better time. If you continue the process of improving the weapon then you deserve less time in the field and at a time when it is harder to hunt. For example the muzzie season for elk is right on the edge of the elk rut. Years ago they took this favorable time for hunting away from the bow hunters who obviously were using a weapon that provides much less of an opportunity for a kill than a muzzleloader. Suck it up and enjoy what you have already been given.

Years ago they did not take the time away from bow hunters, the new season they currently have, put them at the beginning, and some years right in the meat of the rut. The season they now have, was fostered by KBH with the support of some past and present WDFW employees, and many other archery clubs.
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Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2017, 09:13:38 PM »
I tend toward no unless the notion of splitting the season into primitive and muzzleloader is an option.  The primitive weapon idea in my mind is something with a) very limited range, b) open sights and c) something that doesn't always go bang when you pull the trigger.

I could get jacked about a true flintlock season though, wood stock, plain metal, 10 feet long.

I like the idea, but then you are splitting already short seasons into more short seasons. If there were a true primitive muzzleloader season then archery guys would want a season for recurve an long bows shooting wooden arrows with finger release.  Then you would get the modern guys wanting a season for cartridges or guns designed before 1874. Then you would get the group wanting to use an atlatl or spear.  Then a group only wanting air powered guns...

I like the idea of a true primitive season but would always want to use the most effective weapon for the season.  I personally want my freezer to be full of game meat, not going out to the store buying beef solely because I chose to make an already difficult season more so.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 09:19:33 PM by j_h_nimrod »

Offline Stein

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2017, 09:27:42 PM »
Valid points.  I guess that puts it back to whether it should be a traditional weapon season or a modern muzzleloader season.  I don't see any valid reason to allow some modern elements but not others.  Like archery, if you are going to have a modern smokepole, limit a few things like bore diameter, muzzleloading and powder and then have at it with the rest.

Offline wapiti hunter2

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2017, 09:38:40 PM »
If you voted no and use a modern muzzle loader like a Knight, you are a hypocrite. You are already using modern technology. The 209 primer doesn't change a thing. If you want it to be "primitive", go back to flint lock and an open pan only.

Offline Seahawk12

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2017, 09:42:01 PM »
That division managers first name though!  :chuckle:
"I make up my opinions from facts and reasoning, and not to suit any body but myself. If people don't like my opinions, it makes little difference as I don't solicit their opinions or votes."
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Offline Jimmy33

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2017, 09:43:37 PM »
Yes


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Offline REHJWA

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2017, 09:45:44 PM »
I voted yes 209. It is hard to understand how one group of hunters think another group gets an advantage over the other... You can choose which season and method works best for you. We are all hunters and should support clean ethical harvests.

Offline Old Dog

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2017, 10:59:14 PM »
I took the third option.  I shoot a caplock, but if anyone wants to shoot an inline with 209 ignition it's alright with me.
Hunt hard and shoot straight!

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2017, 11:01:40 PM »
Yes.

Offline winshooter88

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2017, 11:04:58 PM »
First off I have no dog in this fight, but what I noticed in the posts, is that the majority of the folks are saying that the 209 primers don't make any difference most say in velocity. If that is the case why do they seem to want it so badly? To the person who said that Muzzleloader season isn't a primitive weapons season, you might want to check again, it is supposed to be a primitive weapons season, that is why you don't have to hunt with the modern rifle hunters. The reason that caps and nipples were allowed is that they were newest ignition system allowed was that on the primitive muzzleloaders, that was the best option that was still considered primitive, the 209 primers are not considered a primitive form of ignition by any standard I have seen.

Offline JeffRaines

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2017, 12:11:41 AM »
First off I have no dog in this fight, but what I noticed in the posts, is that the majority of the folks are saying that the 209 primers don't make any difference most say in velocity. If that is the case why do they seem to want it so badly? To the person who said that Muzzleloader season isn't a primitive weapons season, you might want to check again, it is supposed to be a primitive weapons season, that is why you don't have to hunt with the modern rifle hunters. The reason that caps and nipples were allowed is that they were newest ignition system allowed was that on the primitive muzzleloaders, that was the best option that was still considered primitive, the 209 primers are not considered a primitive form of ignition by any standard I have seen.

Slightly more consistent ignition coupled with the ability to use BH209 powder.

If you voted no and use a modern muzzle loader like a Knight, you are a hypocrite. You are already using modern technology. The 209 primer doesn't change a thing. If you want it to be "primitive", go back to flint lock and an open pan only.

I agree. I was having an argument on Facebook and someone was trying to say that using musket caps are 'traditional'  :roll eyes:

Look guys, I'd get it if we were voting to allow inlines with cap ignition and modern projectiles... that would be a huge jump in effectiveness over an older flintlock style with pan ignition and more primitive projectiles. Hell, I'd understand if it were a vote on optics(which I am 100% against). The inlines are hardly 'primitive', the projectiles used today are hardly 'primitive'.

I also think its incredibly ridiculous to think that the modern hunters are going to come running over to muzzy once 209 primers are allowed. I could see an influx of people if you were to allow optics, however. I realize the effective range of muzzleloaders nowadays is 150-200 yards, and I've even heard of 300 yard shots being made with optics. Your average guy who hunts modern probably hunts with a group of people, they're not going to jump ship unless a majority of the group does. The road hunter types? Well, I guess you could road hunt with a muzzleloader... wouldn't be too hard really, even in their current state. You'd certainly keep your powder and cap dry!

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2017, 12:23:14 AM »
 This is a really informative debate, I'm loving all the comments.

 I've hunted with a muzzy once, although I've applied for years without a successful draw. Only time I've drawn was a coveted tag in Idaho, and had a blast.....no pun intended.

 I see both sides of the debate, keep the points on both sides coming guys. :tup:
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Offline PolarBear

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2017, 12:28:58 AM »
Hell no
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