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Author Topic: Should 209 primers be legal?  (Read 13770 times)

Offline BENCHLEG

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #90 on: October 05, 2017, 01:10:51 PM »
No for me!!

Offline superdown

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #91 on: October 05, 2017, 01:27:00 PM »
I hunt all three season off and on and have been successful in all three.I voted yes because i would like to have less cleanup and would like more options as far as muzzle loaders go i know i only need one but who here only has one style of each gun? A coupe of years ago hunting muzzy season i fired 5 caps off at a deer and did not get it. I went back to camp cleaned the nipple and it went off fine a piece of fuzz/lint or something was in the nipple. I got my deer the next day. Would a 209 have fired through the obstruction? I don't know and honestly don't care I will continue to muzzy hunt regardless whether they allow 209's or not. A person is only as accurate as they are with a weapon that has open sights.The ignition system is irrelevant to the marksmanship one possesses or how many shot opportunities you get you still have to hunt and get yourself on animals.   

Offline elkboy

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2017, 01:34:27 PM »
So, for all you smoke pole guys, how often do you have a filed ignition, one that a 209 primer would have prevented, and while attempting a shot at an animal?  And how often did it cause you to not get a shot off ie: weren't able to re- cap in time for a second chance? (I'm not a muzzy guy so please bare with me on the lingo)
Are mis-fires a real issue for you?
Maybe a poll of our own is necessary.  I'm just curious if adding these primers will actually cause an increase in the amount of game taken, or if it's just a luxury that would make things easier and more reliable.

Good question! It's happened to me on three different animals, twice with a Knight Bighorn, and once with a Knight Mountaineer.  I am personally OK with this as an additional limitation on my chosen hunting method.  I understand the argument that a modern inline isn't very "primitive" or "traditional", but I believe we do have to draw the line somewhere. 

Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #93 on: October 05, 2017, 01:57:31 PM »
So I got curious and started looking at other states.  In the west it seems like it is WA and Idaho that are the only ones that don't allow 209 primers during muzzle loader season only in the western states.  I did see some states don't allow pellets and a lot of open sights only.  I didn't have time to go through all 50 states but I did some random ones here and there and I see that almost all allowed 209 primers during ML only season.  So for the one that say no to 209 primers is it just because of season length.  I agree with I think Machias that said it is pretty bad that all of us as hunters are split and pitted against each other.  I like learning all methods of hunting and enjoy aspects of them all.  I know as an archery hunter we do get a pretty good dates for elk season but I don't mind changes to allow for others to get in on a better part of the season for the method.  I think ML season pretty much stinks one week.  I said 3 years ago a wrote the game department.  I even talked to the manager of game management back then and asked them why can't we at least give each method at least 2 weekends for their seasons.  I have the chance to talk to the manager who put out the survey.  The NWTF is working with the department to rewrite the turkey plan.  He is willing to listen and make some changes that will benefit us all as hunters. 
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Offline Stein

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2017, 02:00:35 PM »
I don't see it as hunters pitted against each other.  The state reached out to see what we think and we are having an open discussion.  It doesn't seem too realistic for hunters to agree on 100% of the things 100% of the time.  Nothing wrong with a good discussion in my book.

Offline r67968

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2017, 02:09:47 PM »
Its a No for me. It takes work to dial everything in, but i have found muzzleloaders can be extremely reliable with caps even in wet weather.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2017, 02:13:34 PM »
So I got curious and started looking at other states.  In the west it seems like it is WA and Idaho that are the only ones that don't allow 209 primers during muzzle loader season only in the western states.

Think you need to add in Oregon.  It is a Pacific Northwest thing...

Quote
  I did see some states don't allow pellets and a lot of open sights only.  I didn't have time to go through all 50 states but I did some random ones here and there and I see that almost all allowed 209 primers during ML only season.  So for the one that say no to 209 primers is it just because of season length.  I agree with I think Machias that said it is pretty bad that all of us as hunters are split and pitted against each other.  I like learning all methods of hunting and enjoy aspects of them all.  I know as an archery hunter we do get a pretty good dates for elk season but I don't mind changes to allow for others to get in on a better part of the season for the method.  I think ML season pretty much stinks one week.  I said 3 years ago a wrote the game department.  I even talked to the manager of game management back then and asked them why can't we at least give each method at least 2 weekends for their seasons.  I have the chance to talk to the manager who put out the survey.  The NWTF is working with the department to rewrite the turkey plan.  He is willing to listen and make some changes that will benefit us all as hunters.
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2017, 02:24:42 PM »
 If ML season had better dates would all of you the voted no would you change your vote?  Using this yearsc alendar say early  elk ML seaon  10/7-10/15.
So I got curious and started looking at other states.  In the west it seems like it is WA and Idaho that are the only ones that don't allow 209 primers during muzzle loader season only in the western states.

Think you need to add in Oregon.  It is a Pacific Northwest thing...

Quote
I see it now.  Didn't see it because they used center fire primer instead of 209  :chuckle:
Russell McDonald
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Offline jagermiester

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #98 on: October 05, 2017, 02:51:18 PM »
Yes for me. I watched my dad miss an opportunity at a cow.
For a guy like him it's a no brainer he needs every advantage he can get. Or take a young hunter let's not handicap them. If you don't want to use a 209 don't if you want to use flintlok do it but why restrict people who want to use it. I'm thinking about going back to iron sights during modern for deer. I've also thought about using a crossbow just for the challenge. But my kid's aren't there yet they are focused on success. Same as all of us were when we first started. Now it doesn't seem as important.
 A 209 ignition is more reliable let the people who want to use it do so. That's what I say.
Lead em if they're running.

Offline Machias

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #99 on: October 05, 2017, 03:05:51 PM »
I don't see it as hunters pitted against each other.  The state reached out to see what we think and we are having an open discussion.  It doesn't seem too realistic for hunters to agree on 100% of the things 100% of the time.  Nothing wrong with a good discussion in my book.

This survey is not pitting us against each other, the state has already done that with creating the choose your weapons requirement.  You don't have this fighting in the vast majority of states, because modern firearms guys are not jealous of the long season the bowhunters have, because if they wanted to bowhunt they could.  We on the other hand are jealous if the archery hunters get an extra day or if the muzzle loaders dates are in a more prime time, because we are all fighting for days in the field and the "enemy" is the other user groups.  In other states they could care less if you hunt with a lighted sight on your bow with mechanical heads, shooting lazers out of the nock.  They don't care if you have a scoped crossbow in archery season.  They could care less if you have a scoped, inline muzzleloader, shooting 209 primers.  None of the hunters fight like we do, because if you don't want to use that equipment then you don't.  If you do, great.  I was a big proponent, for a long time, of no electronics on the bow or arrow.  After living there and realizing what other guys were using had ZERO impact on me, I stopped worrying about.  I personally don't like lighted nocks, so I didn't use them.  Despised crossbows during the archery season, then went to a state that allowed them, so I tried them.  Hunted for 2 weeks with a crossbow and hated it.  Sold it and went back to a compound bow.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:12:13 PM by Machias »
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Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #100 on: October 05, 2017, 05:17:05 PM »
I don't see it as hunters pitted against each other.  The state reached out to see what we think and we are having an open discussion.  It doesn't seem too realistic for hunters to agree on 100% of the things 100% of the time.  Nothing wrong with a good discussion in my book.

This survey is not pitting us against each other, the state has already done that with creating the choose your weapons requirement.  You don't have this fighting in the vast majority of states, because modern firearms guys are not jealous of the long season the bowhunters have, because if they wanted to bowhunt they could.  We on the other hand are jealous if the archery hunters get an extra day or if the muzzle loaders dates are in a more prime time, because we are all fighting for days in the field and the "enemy" is the other user groups.  In other states they could care less if you hunt with a lighted sight on your bow with mechanical heads, shooting lazers out of the nock.  They don't care if you have a scoped crossbow in archery season.  They could care less if you have a scoped, inline muzzleloader, shooting 209 primers.  None of the hunters fight like we do, because if you don't want to use that equipment then you don't.  If you do, great.  I was a big proponent, for a long time, of no electronics on the bow or arrow.  After living there and realizing what other guys were using had ZERO impact on me, I stopped worrying about.  I personally don't like lighted nocks, so I didn't use them.  Despised crossbows during the archery season, then went to a state that allowed them, so I tried them.  Hunted for 2 weeks with a crossbow and hated it.  Sold it and went back to a compound bow.
Just what I wanted to say and meant :tup:

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The opinions expressed in my posts do not represent those of the forum.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #101 on: October 05, 2017, 05:48:42 PM »
I don't see it as hunters pitted against each other.  The state reached out to see what we think and we are having an open discussion.  It doesn't seem too realistic for hunters to agree on 100% of the things 100% of the time.  Nothing wrong with a good discussion in my book.

This survey is not pitting us against each other, the state has already done that with creating the choose your weapons requirement.  You don't have this fighting in the vast majority of states, because modern firearms guys are not jealous of the long season the bowhunters have, because if they wanted to bowhunt they could.  We on the other hand are jealous if the archery hunters get an extra day or if the muzzle loaders dates are in a more prime time, because we are all fighting for days in the field and the "enemy" is the other user groups. In other states they could care less if you hunt with a lighted sight on your bow with mechanical heads, shooting lazers out of the nock.  They don't care if you have a scoped crossbow in archery season.  They could care less if you have a scoped, inline muzzleloader, shooting 209 primers.  None of the hunters fight like we do, because if you don't want to use that equipment then you don't.  If you do, great.  I was a big proponent, for a long time, of no electronics on the bow or arrow.  After living there and realizing what other guys were using had ZERO impact on me, I stopped worrying about.  I personally don't like lighted nocks, so I didn't use them.  Despised crossbows during the archery season, then went to a state that allowed them, so I tried them.  Hunted for 2 weeks with a crossbow and hated it.  Sold it and went back to a compound bow.
Just what I wanted to say and meant :tup:

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i know you guys seem to despite WDFW, but here are some facts on regulations in other Western states:

Idaho Muzzleloaders

 In addition, the muzzleloading rifle or musket must be:
•   Capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.
•   Equipped with only open or peep sights. Scopes and any electronics are prohibited.
•   Pelletized powders are prohibited.
•   Sabots are prohibited.
•   Loaded with a patched round ball or conical non-jacketed projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy.
•   209 primers are prohibited.

Idaho Archery

During an archery-only season, it is illegal for hunters to use any firearm or implement other than a longbow, compound bow or recurve bow in compliance with general archery equipment requirements, or:
•   Any bow equipped with magnifying sights.
•   Any crossbow. Except disabled hunters possessing a permit may use a crossbow. Applications for the use of crossbows by disabled hunters are available at Fish and Game offices.

Oregon Muzzleloader
•   Scopes (permanent and detachable), and sights that use batteries, artificial light or energy are not allowed during muzzleloader-only seasons
•   During muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only, it is illegal to hunt with jacketed bullets, sabots, and bullets with plastic or synthetic tips or bases.
•   It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
•   It is illegal to hunt with pelletized powders or propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only
•   For muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only, the muzzleloader must have an open ignition.
Oregon Archery
•   No device secured to or supported by a bow may be used to maintain the bow at full draw.
•   No electronic devices may be attached to bow or arrow, except lighted arrow nocks that have no function other than to increase visibility of the arrow are allowed.

Nevada Muzzleloading
•   During a “Muzzle-loader-Only” Hunt: Only open sights or peep sights are permitted; scopes prohibited. A sight that is operated or powered by a battery, electronics or a radioactive isotope such as tritium is prohibited.

Nevada Archery
•    A crossbow cannot be used for archery only hunts.

Colorado Muzzleloading Rifles:
•   Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Fiber optics and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal. Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.

Colorado Archery:
•   CROSSBOWS: Illegal during archery seasons.

New Mexico Restricted Muzzleloader
•   Only black powder, Pyrodex or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless powder, inline ignition, pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets, multiple projectiles and scopes are illegal.


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Offline Mallardmasher

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2017, 05:49:16 PM »
A survey without a signature is worthless, sorta like voting for Dancing with the stars you can vote as often as you like until Oct 31st. How is that legit
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Offline snake

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #103 on: October 05, 2017, 06:45:07 PM »
Absolutely no reason not to allow 209 primers. If you are a High and Mighty on primitive go get a Hawken. Still primitive with a 209 btw

Offline Mallardmasher

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #104 on: October 05, 2017, 07:47:11 PM »
I have always believed never endorse limitation, to each their own.
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