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Author Topic: Should 209 primers be legal?  (Read 8698 times)

Offline mallardaddict

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #250 on: January 03, 2018, 08:55:55 AM »
I will preface this by saying that I agree with many posters that this is a slippery slope.  That said I voted yes on 209’s for the following reason.

To date all of my muzzleloader hunting has been done with a .54 Hawken and Pyrodwx RS and most recently a .50 TC Black Diamond XR and T7.  I have never had issue with wet powder, hangfires or failure to ignite but I am sure it is coming.

I plan to buy a Knight UL and would like the option to run B209 powder just for the ease of cleaning and lack of a carbon ring. Unfortunately in my Black Diamond I have been unable to get reliable ignition of B209 with either musket caps of #11 magnum caps. B209 of course requires a 209 primer for reliable ignition.

I am not at all a proponent of scoped muzzleloaders, battery powered optics, fully sealed ignition systems or full smokeless ML’s etc. and for the most part enjoy the added difficulty of ML seasons. That said I just do not see how allowing 209 primers takes that away based on the “western” rules as currently set.

We already allow jacketed bullets and sabots as well as BP substitutes so why not allow a primer that helps with the ignition of already legal powders.

Like I said my desire is only to run B209 for its decreased fouling and ease of cleaning with common rifle solvents I already own this my desire to use a 209.

I also voted yes based on my moral compass. I personally have a hard time condoning someone else for using a particular item when legal strictly due to my own personal feelings on it. It’s somewhat alarming to me when a group of people with similar interests freely divide themselves over such small details as this is what gun grabbers want to see happen.

Offline Curly

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #251 on: January 03, 2018, 09:39:39 AM »
I wish they would roll back the rules and eliminate jacketed bullets.

Also wish they would make inlines illegal.

I've also long thought they should never allow 209's.

But with that said, what the hell........I really don't care anymore. 

I'm sure that in 10 years or so, sealed inlines will be allowed, smokeless powder will be allowed and eventually even scopes will be allowed.  It never ends.  The line keeps moving and people keep asking for more and more allowances.  I guess someday the season name will need to change from muzzleloader to simply single-shot.  :twocents:

May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

><((((º>` ><((((º>. ><((((º>.¸><((((º>

Online Lead ball 54

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #252 on: January 03, 2018, 09:49:30 AM »
What he said!!!!!!!! :yeah: :tup:

Offline hunter399

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #253 on: January 03, 2018, 09:55:00 AM »
I have found a few articals on this subject,a lot of you are saying you want reliable ignition ,but you are failing to mention that with a hoter primer will allow you to shoot longer ranges with more powders that like hot primers.so I'm kinda calling bs on the reliable ignition after reading most of this thread.here's the artical,more fps means less drop in my mind.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlprimers.html

This is also new muzzleloader that just came out ,and can be coverted to 209 primers.I know this does not have ignition exposed.but I bet most of you guys wish you could use it.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2014/4/29/remingtons-300-yard-muzzleloader/


This is no direspect but you will get more bang for your buck, long range with better ignition.Just like any rifle primers.
So I still say no 209 .
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #254 on: January 03, 2018, 12:05:03 PM »
I have found a few articals on this subject,a lot of you are saying you want reliable ignition ,but you are failing to mention that with a hoter primer will allow you to shoot longer ranges with more powders that like hot primers.so I'm kinda calling bs on the reliable ignition after reading most of this thread.here's the artical,more fps means less drop in my mind.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlprimers.html

This is also new muzzleloader that just came out ,and can be coverted to 209 primers.I know this does not have ignition exposed.but I bet most of you guys wish you could use it.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2014/4/29/remingtons-300-yard-muzzleloader/


This is no direspect but you will get more bang for your buck, long range with better ignition.Just like any rifle primers.
So I still say no 209 .

There really is only one ML sub powder that can not be ignited with a cap.  BH-209 is and does qualify for a ML sub - even though it is really a smokeless powder with Potassium and Sulphur added to allow it to be classified as a ML sub.  But even then if you are willing to do it you can duplex a load of BH and ignite it with a percussion cap in either an inline or a side hammer.

Three powders T7, Swiss, and Olde Eynsford are all very energetic and can be ignited with a cap.

Igniting any of these powders with a 209 primers does not significantly increase velocity of the projectile shot.

This is the results of one of the many tests that I have run... I shot the same load with several different 209 primers.  From the hottest Federal to the coolest Remington 209-4 (410 shotgun primer). Really there is/was not a significant difference in velocity..



Igniting the same load of T7 with a cap will give you nearly the same results.

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Online boneaddict

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #255 on: January 03, 2018, 12:12:35 PM »
I wish they would roll back the rules and eliminate jacketed bullets.

Also wish they would make inlines illegal.

I've also long thought they should never allow 209's.

But with that said, what the hell........I really don't care anymore. 

I'm sure that in 10 years or so, sealed inlines will be allowed, smokeless powder will be allowed and eventually even scopes will be allowed.  It never ends.  The line keeps moving and people keep asking for more and more allowances.  I guess someday the season name will need to change from muzzleloader to simply single-shot.  :twocents:
yep

 

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