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Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?

No
Yes

Author Topic: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)  (Read 10888 times)

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #200 on: December 02, 2017, 10:28:41 AM »
The "odd/even" system based on the last digit of your wild ID is very intriguing to me, if set up right it would cut mule deer hunting pressure in half which should in time help the herds as far as numbers and quality by aiding in escapement. Yes its not the only answer to the problem for some herds, as I,ve said the issue with some of these herds decline is multi headed and predator issues, doe tags and late quality hunts all need to be addressed. If some are worried that there hunting will be lessened you can still hunt elk, whitetail,blacktail or out of state for mule deer and oh yea how about those bear, cougar and coyotes, Its just those who hunt mule deer will only be able to do it every other year, IMO its better than a draw system where your at the mercy of being "drawn".  :dunno:.. :twocents:

Offline rosscrazyelk

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #201 on: December 03, 2017, 12:29:03 PM »
I voted yes.
I used to be a No way in hell are you taking my yearly opportunity away  from me  kinda guy.
I have prodominately been a archery guy for deer and take my niece out for modern season and the past few years have really opened my eyes at what's going on. Also after reading articles in other states and research stories. We definitely need to change the way we do things before there is nothing to hunt.
If its brown knock it down

Offline Ironhead

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #202 on: December 03, 2017, 01:06:43 PM »
For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #203 on: December 03, 2017, 02:44:25 PM »
Didn’t read the entire thread but how do you manage game when a certain population has very little to no rules on numbers taken?  Not sure what the fix is but everyone playing by the same rules would be a great start, agree or disagree ?
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #204 on: December 03, 2017, 03:04:18 PM »
But I also agree w most that predator control is the best way to help the herds.
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #205 on: December 03, 2017, 03:13:26 PM »
 :hello: agree! I voted no. Not until everyone is on the same playing field on our public lands. Reservation land do whatever you do.

Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #206 on: December 03, 2017, 04:15:36 PM »
For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

I think more restrictions couldn’t be put in place before a lottery, or every other year senerio system. No doe tags period, archery 3 point min, modern and muzzle loader 4 point minimum etc....

Heck freeze quality tags across the board for 5-7 years.

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Offline hunter399

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #207 on: December 03, 2017, 04:36:19 PM »
For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

The hunters pointing fingers at other hunters,instead of not looking at what's put mule deer in this state in danger,from past ,present,and changing for the future :tup:

They might start charging for each sub species,blacktail tag,whitetail tag ,muledeer permit,mule deer tag.There already talking about making people choose which side of state there hunting for deer,choose which tag your buying solves that.

Let's say permits for mule deer starts ,few years they see how much money they lost , then its back the way it is now.few years of conservation,for one good hunting  season Back where we are now.

Are you ready for mule deer to be like moose permits , you might be lucky to hunt mule deer before your dead.

Then there's cost of permits,cost of tag,how many tags,and if numbers are not set right it's not gonna help.

Now you have a lot of pressure on whitetail, from everybody that didn't draw mule deer tags how does that effect other species of deer.And quality of hunt,and do you lose money from hunters not buying tags few years down the road.

So how many mule deer permits for the whole state?

Maybe I'm not hunting muley,can I buy whitetail only tag for less money,since less opportunity.

What about all that money from last minute tag buyers?

What if only 500 permits are you gonna be happy and buy a permit

What if the tag now cost 150 dollars cause we gotta make up for money lost with no otc.

Answer some of these and maybe I'm with the permit system.It's great that people want to help with the permit system,but don't always consider all deer species in a whole, or all wildlife by only helping mule deer you may hurt other wildlife,effect cost of tags,ect.
How about odd/even on who hunts at all for the year ,and conserve all deer species across the board.only problem is wdfw want there money,if theres no money for wdfw,Theres no hunting in our state at all.Everbody that wants permits can't seem to answer the tough questions that come with Permits.Maybe that's why wdfw is pushing so hard for choose which side of the state your hunting for deer,to keep some of the herds of people on there own side of state and save a mule deer. :dunno:




« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 07:18:41 PM by hunter399 »
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #208 on: December 03, 2017, 07:06:31 PM »
I dont know i guess how bad it is,some members here are painting a very bleak picture but no stats to go with it.Jumping on the hunters that vote no change without stats is to say the least unfair.if its as bad as is being said then i guess not very many deer were taken this year by hunters.The only post that made sense in this entire thread is the one explaining cause and effect,do we have a decent not great deer population to environment ratio?Questions like this need answered before fingers get pointed rates go up or opportunities taken away.  :twocents:
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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #209 on: December 03, 2017, 07:40:27 PM »
For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.



Have you read the entire thread?
I voted No, and I can assure you that I DO realize our MD are in serious trouble. (others that voted no have echoed this too)

What I am not willing to do, is to jump in head first while not knowing how deep the water is.
Yes, a lot of things need to change, but until I see a well thought out comprehensive plan, I will remain a no vote.


This is the 1st time in my 37 year hunting career that I have not notched a WA deer tag, not for lack of trying.
I voted no, and am sticking with it.........until I see a comprehensive plan.

There are multiple issues affecting the MD herds, addressing 1 or 2 of them (doe harvest/ every other year hunting) etc. is not the fixall  IMO.

I believe the vast majority of these issues (wolves is not one of them) can be achieved with a bit of coming together from all sides/positions of each issue. If all sides are willing to give a little, I feel that all sides can get a bit of what will make them happy, and more importantly, will benefit the herds in the long run.

I have what I believe is a well thought out plan, but it is still bouncing around in my head, I work 2 jobs and am trying to find the time to get it all compiled on paper.

Here are a couple of glimpses;
Some do not want to give up multi permits. They need to go bye bye, too much additional pressure.

Reduce time afield for all user groups. Allows all an opportunity to hunt, but takes away additional pressure/harvest.

Taking pressure off 1 herd (ie Methow) will only put more pressure on others (robbing Peter to pay Paul.)  :bash:

Reduce Late permit quotas. Cant keep taking out the good breeders

Stopping all antlerless(doe) hunts will only serve to overpopulate holding capacities of limited habitat.


That is only a very small portion of issues that need to be addressed, (and that are still in my head) :chuckle:




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Offline Ironhead

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #210 on: December 03, 2017, 08:05:38 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!
"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is, that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #211 on: December 03, 2017, 08:10:17 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!

Much more can be done before shutting down the general season.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #212 on: December 03, 2017, 08:26:43 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!
Show stats as to why they are in such peril or get off your soap box.
how many winter kill?

how many killed by vehicles?

how many killed by cougars?

bobcats?

how many killed by coyotes?

how many killed by bears?

blue tongue?

how many die from defects?

then how many taken by archery?

how many taken by m/l

how many by m/f?

how many in each group are does?

how many are bucks?

east side?

west side?

without these to start you have no argument at all.
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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #213 on: December 03, 2017, 09:12:52 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!


Did you kill a mule deer this year?


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Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #214 on: December 03, 2017, 09:45:30 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!
Show stats as to why they are in such peril or get off your soap box.
how many winter kill?

how many killed by vehicles?

how many killed by cougars?

bobcats?

how many killed by coyotes?

how many killed by bears?

blue tongue?

how many die from defects?

then how many taken by archery?

how many taken by m/l

how many by m/f?

how many in each group are does?

how many are bucks?

east side?

west side?

without these to start you have no argument at all.

The Methow herd has been cut in half over the years by just about everything you mentioned(from 30k to 40k head to 15k-19k ), killed by more and more vehicles in the valley since the opening of the North cascades Hwy, killed by the influx of more hunting pressure since the opening of the pass, killed by the predator boom(more cougars,yotes, bears and wolves). Bottom line the mule deer head count in that valley has been on a steady decline and is still in a tailspin. All it takes is to spend a few days walking the woods over there and comparing that to the same "stroll" you would have taken 10 or 15 years ago(let alone 40 or 50 years ago like some of us) and thats all it would take to see how far in the crapper that herd is in. All the "stats" add up to one thing, half of the herd has disappeared and they are still leaving us.

Offline csaaphill

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #215 on: December 03, 2017, 10:33:38 PM »
I voted no not because I don't care and resent any statement that makes sound as so. I before reading it, voted yes because a change is needed, but not necessarily that option, and for that reason changed it.
Changes need to be done that's for sure, 3pt minimums needs changed not for good, but for a short time to make 2pt's and smaller wary again like they should be. With what I've heard on the Methow Unit a 4pt minimum would go a long way to help the herds there. Or some other type of compromise to still allow yearly hunting.
If you're thinking on something like Oregon does they do a Controlled hunt draw in all units, but do have some units that have 100% draw odds and you can use that as your second choice so when drawn you get a point, but not convinced that would work in Washington. Hunting each year is the only thing that keeps what numbers we have now and political pull, change that well lose, for peeps will just quit going as they have when regs went form 7-8 pages to more than 50-60 pages we have now.
Most may say yay less people but forget we only have political pull with numbers and $. do away with that and the $ go and antis win. :twocents:
"When my bow falls, so shall the world. When me heart ceases to pump blood to my body, it will all come crashing down. As a hunter, we are bound by duty, nay, bound by our very soul to this world. When a hunter dies we feel it, we sense it, and the world trembles with sorrow. When I die, so shall the world, from the shock of loosing such a great part of ones soul." Ezekiel, Okeanos Hunter

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #216 on: December 03, 2017, 11:13:48 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!
Show stats as to why they are in such peril or get off your soap box.
how many winter kill?

how many killed by vehicles?

how many killed by cougars?

bobcats?

how many killed by coyotes?

how many killed by bears?

blue tongue?

how many die from defects?

then how many taken by archery?

how many taken by m/l

how many by m/f?

how many in each group are does?

how many are bucks?

east side?

west side?

without these to start you have no argument at all.

The Methow herd has been cut in half over the years by just about everything you mentioned(from 30k to 40k head to 15k-19k ), killed by more and more vehicles in the valley since the opening of the North cascades Hwy, killed by the influx of more hunting pressure since the opening of the pass, killed by the predator boom(more cougars,yotes, bears and wolves). Bottom line the mule deer head count in that valley has been on a steady decline and is still in a tailspin. All it takes is to spend a few days walking the woods over there and comparing that to the same "stroll" you would have taken 10 or 15 years ago(let alone 40 or 50 years ago like some of us) and thats all it would take to see how far in the crapper that herd is in. All the "stats" add up to one thing, half of the herd has disappeared and they are still leaving us.
so as others have said cause and effect,we cut back hunting more killed by vehicles causting state and others more money.more food for preditors. etc etc etc.saying 50% is gone dont mean anything.we prob. have 50% less range now than 50 years ago.way more vehicles,more cougars now than we had in the past 20 years. more probs. with things like hoof rot with elk blue tongue with deer pneumonia with sheep etc etc etc. simply said there is no quick off the hip fix.least of all cutting oppurtunity to stop wasting on the hi way,burning in fires dying in the winter bla bla bla.so dont poke fun and ridicule on presumptions of a fix. not pointed at any one member.  :tup:
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #217 on: December 04, 2017, 05:52:07 AM »
To say "no" isn't right even if it is stricter predator control then it would be "yes" :twocents:

Offline mdbuck5x5

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #218 on: December 04, 2017, 07:04:08 AM »
I don't think anyone that is saying "no" doesn't believe that something needs to be done. But for the "yes" guys throwing stuff around and hoping something sticks that isn't gonna work imo. What I don't care for is guys that are willing to push their agendas onto others thinking their ideas are somewhat superior!

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #219 on: December 04, 2017, 11:27:08 AM »
 :yeah: a lot needs to be done,we all should do what we can without restrictions first.we all know that when restrictions come they don't easily come back............... hounds,baiting .
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #220 on: December 04, 2017, 11:58:26 AM »
Are the guys that want a season every other year currently only getting a license every other year?  Or are they shooting muley bucks each season?

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #221 on: December 04, 2017, 12:03:40 PM »
For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.



I think more restrictions couldn’t be put in place before a lottery, or every other year senerio system. No doe tags period, archery 3 point min, modern and muzzle loader 4 point minimum etc....

Heck freeze quality tags across the board for 5-7 years.

I like the idea of no doe tags for 4 to 6 years and only when needed after that, no more quality tags, absolutely :tup:. As far as point restrictions go, stick with the 3 point rule, IMO going to 4 point min. just means we will have 3 points and probably still some 2 points left out to rot :bash:. Heck, having a 2 week season brought back , 3 point min but doing the odd/even(every other year) idea might even work, no doe tags, no late hunts. have the season end on October 31st every year(no later) the amount of hunters would be cut in half because of the every other method and the hunters that are hunting that year will be spread out over 2 weeks, would eliminate the "pumpkin patches", help with escapement and should help the overall herd by not being under pressure for months. The archery guys would be the same, every other year, 2 week season September 1st to the 15th. Yes the predator issues still need to be handled, encroachment and habitat issues also, like I said, its a multi headed snake.... :twocents:

Offline dmoua

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #222 on: December 04, 2017, 12:21:18 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?
If your answer to this is no your part of the problem not the answer!


Did you kill a mule deer this year?


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Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #223 on: December 04, 2017, 12:52:20 PM »
Are the guys that want a season every other year currently only getting a license every other year?  Or are they shooting muley bucks each season?

I,m one of those guys, and yes I buy a hunting license every year because I hunt other animals besides mule deer, I killed a mule deer every year I,ve hunted going back to the 1960,s up until about 10 or 12 years ago, the herds were in good shape, numbers were good and with the exception of a bad winter here or there the herds held there own, about 10 or 12 years ago I started passing, I,ve passed on many legal bucks since but I will always purchase my license and tag because I like to think at least some of my money goes into helping the mule deer I enjoy hunting.

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #224 on: December 04, 2017, 01:06:03 PM »
How about starting dec1st close roads off in winter range to April or may? So the animals get less winter time stress? I am also not apposed to go to draw for all late hunts, even archery. If they closed off the northern hunting then the swakane would get destroyed to? And others

 

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F/S NEW Benelli Super Sport 12 gauge 30" "REDUCED" by zwickeyman
[Today at 05:38:55 AM]


REI Co-Op Siesta 30 Sleeping Bag FS by adamR
[Today at 04:59:06 AM]


Klymit Static V2 Inflatable Sleeping Pad FS by adamR
[Today at 04:57:57 AM]


Cougar Research from Alberta by bearpaw
[Today at 04:46:43 AM]


Bloodsport Arrows by tgomez
[Today at 02:14:43 AM]


Blacktail food plot by fishnfur
[Today at 12:26:33 AM]


Trapping Marten by JakeLand
[Today at 12:07:02 AM]


Dealing with backyard poop by h2ofowlr
[Yesterday at 11:02:07 PM]