collapse
GET THE MOST OUT OF YOUR GPS MAP Guided Moose And Black Bear Hunts

Author Topic: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou  (Read 5578 times)

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 5209

Offline Old Man8383

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 19
  • Location: South Cascades
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
Bringing in the last remnants of an endangered species population for protection is a daunting task.  It's been done before with other species with some success at saving the population.  I am sure there will challenges.   Hats off to the Kalispell tribe for stepping forward to take this job on and the USFWS funding.  But I do have some questions, who are or why aren't the sportsman/ conservation groups stepping forward to help?  We're "all in" this together.  Haven't we learned anything yet?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 05:33:32 PM by Old Man8383 »

Offline JL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 87
  • Location: Spokane, WA
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 05:57:21 PM »
Old Man, I would go so far as to say I've spent more time in their habitat than most this year. I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to take a stance on the "predators," but will say the wolf population up there is far beyond what's been suggested, based on everything I've read and observed. Caribou are a herd animal. The herd is their protection. I don't think you can rebuild a depleted caribou herd when wolves are on them (in far greater numbers) like bees on honey. Based on what I've seen, the elk aren't hanging out in there either. They're basically sprinting through that area. I agree w/ your post completely and don't mean to come across the wrong way. Sure you're more knowledgeable than I am. I do have multiple trail cam photos of wolves from this fall I can share w/ the Tribe or sportsmen groups ...PM me.

Offline nwwanderer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 1367
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 07:37:58 AM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?

Online pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 26640
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, CCRKBA, NAGR, RMEF, WSB
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 08:44:09 AM »
Why isn't anyone suing the USFWS and state wildlife agencies for signing the death certificates of these animals by introducing an apex predator?
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline WAcoyotehunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 3916
  • Location: Pend Oreille County
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 02:24:45 PM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 4249
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 05:24:59 PM »
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 28781
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 05:41:01 PM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Good luck on this, I hope it helps the herd, we are really close to losing a specie that is in serious peril. Glad to hear you are removing some of the wolves but as you said there are a lot of lion and bear in that country too, more of them than wolves! I'm extremely disappointed that WDFW hasn't tried to do more for these caribou when we are spending millions on wolves that were never endangered!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 28781
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 05:42:18 PM »
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.

They said USFWS funds, that is probably PR funds from sportsmen!  :tup:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 36662
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 06:23:17 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 4249
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2017, 09:37:23 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 28781
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 10:36:47 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.

hhhmmmm
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline nwwanderer

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 1367
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 07:09:25 AM »
Having worked with an animal or two late in gestation, you can expect significant loss just from the handling.  Timing and release from just 18 acres will be tricky, good luck

Offline buglebrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1159
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 07:53:50 AM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 36662
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2017, 08:40:55 AM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

 

* Recent Topics

209 powder by Sabotloader
[Today at 07:42:35 AM]


FS 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 by Timberstalker
[Today at 07:41:36 AM]


Turkey season 2018 by CaNINE
[Today at 07:41:25 AM]


Anyone prepare deer rawhide? by lokidog
[Today at 07:38:01 AM]


Wall Tents Tips and Tricks by skeeter 20i
[Today at 07:33:42 AM]


Wanted- Peavey log roller by savagehunter
[Today at 07:32:09 AM]


New hunting pack by Jeepinp
[Today at 07:22:46 AM]


FS Marmot Halo 4p Tent by Nwgunner
[Today at 07:00:21 AM]


Knight UL converting to 209 by BULLBLASTER
[Today at 06:31:10 AM]


WTB 12ga over under by nwwanderer
[Today at 06:30:46 AM]


New Bow by flemdogg
[Today at 06:25:32 AM]


Funding For Wolves by dreamunelk
[Today at 06:11:24 AM]


Slick bag? by dreamunelk
[Today at 06:06:44 AM]


Electronic Muffs by Russ McDonald
[Today at 05:55:38 AM]


WTS/WTT: Glock 19 Gen 4 by cohoho
[Today at 05:53:35 AM]


Archery Success by jasnt
[Today at 05:41:53 AM]


3rd Annual Salmon For Soldiers by Stein
[Today at 05:12:36 AM]


New Mexico draw by Brushbuster
[Yesterday at 11:07:20 PM]


Multi-season points question by fishnfur
[Yesterday at 10:44:50 PM]


338 375 ruger build by Goshawk
[Yesterday at 09:18:18 PM]