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Author Topic: Swans  (Read 1110 times)

Offline CP

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Swans
« on: November 08, 2017, 07:30:08 AM »
They are everywhere.  Seems like there are more every year.  More swans than ducks now.  When are we going to get a season on them?


Offline Henrydog

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Re: Swans
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 07:51:15 AM »
Monday I was pheasant hunting the Palouse and saw 3 flocks of them

Offline Stein

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Re: Swans
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 01:07:59 PM »
Just thinking the same thing this morning, they decoy brilliantly into a few snow socks or just wait until one flies 20 feet overhead.  Good thing WA hunters are doing our part so people in other states get a chance at them.  Our only hope is to find the unicorn swan with an orange beak.

Offline Buckewe

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Re: Swans
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 02:30:52 PM »
Just thinking the same thing this morning, they decoy brilliantly into a few snow socks or just wait until one flies 20 feet overhead.  Good thing WA hunters are doing our part so people in other states get a chance at them.  Our only hope is to find the unicorn swan with an orange beak.

Yea it ducks we will never have a season because of the Swan lovers in seattle. I'm still looking for an orange beak. Haven't seen one yet but there are thousands of swans up here now.
Blacktail lives matter

Offline Badhabit

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Re: Swans
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 02:38:18 PM »
Is there any documentation that a muted swan has been harvested in WA? I'd love to find one hiding out in Eastern WA.

Offline Buckewe

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Re: Swans
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 03:01:36 PM »
I have not heard of one being harvested but have heard reports of them being seen.
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Offline Stein

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Re: Swans
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 04:20:39 PM »
Quote
Mute Swans are very rare in Washington, but birds are occasionally sighted. These birds may be from populations in British Columbia. While no Mute Swans have bred in Washington in recent years, there are both captive and feral populations in southwestern British Columbia, and expansion into Washington is certainly possible. Mute Swans were first introduced in Vancouver around 1889, but the population did not become established until the 1950s. Winter-feeding and mild winters may be necessary for their survival. The only established feral population is on southern Vancouver Island from Duncan to Sooke. Humans providing food and shelter maintain other populations in the area, including Vancouver's Stanley Park and other urban ponds.

Doesn't sound too promising, but I still look.  I would love to see the dog try to drag one of those back to the blind.

Offline Buckewe

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Re: Swans
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 04:26:00 PM »
Blacktail lives matter

Online huntingfool7

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Re: Swans
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 07:07:13 PM »
They are legally available if you're willing to travel.  This one was taken a few weeks ago in North Dakota.

Offline lokidog

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Re: Swans
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 07:33:26 PM »
It is absolutely silly to not have a season here, a money maker for WDFW as well for permit apps and tags.

Offline Stein

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Re: Swans
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 07:41:59 PM »
It is absolutely silly to not have a season here, a money maker for WDFW as well for permit apps and tags.

Agreed, one a year limit, $20 punch card or even a draw - it's proven we would all enter no matter how low the odds were.  Those things must completely destroy the fields they get into.  It's basically a 30-35 pound goose.

Offline EWUeagles

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Re: Swans
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2017, 07:17:41 AM »
I think it's funny all the people who are surprised that Washington doesn't have a season or something is done wrong here. We are one of the worst states around from hunting regulations to minimum wage. The basin sees huge numbers of Cranes but we don't get to shoot them either.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Swans
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2017, 07:58:31 AM »
I think it's funny all the people who are surprised that Washington doesn't have a season or something is done wrong here. We are one of the worst states around from hunting regulations to minimum wage. The basin sees huge numbers of Cranes but we don't get to shoot them either.
The feds would have to allow WDFW to open a swan season in WA before WDFW could open a season.

Offline Stein

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Re: Swans
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2017, 08:04:31 AM »
They have issued permits to other states, seems like it is more a decision by WDFW than the feds.

The population we see is about 13,000 strong from Alaska and the ones hunted in MT are from a population of about 500 plus maybe some migratory birds from Canada totaling about 1,600.

It would likely be a hard sell to the non-hunting public, swans have more social clout than geese or ducks for whatever reason.

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Swans
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 08:12:29 AM »
I shot several in Utah years ago when it was legal.  They had/have a draw system for one bird a year and I think they issued 2000 permits.  Kind of like shooting down a small airplane (lol) and not really great eating.  Very dark meat and not fun to pick.  Used to try to get one that was still a little gray as they were the younger ones and better eating than the fully mature birds. Huge concentrations of them on the Great Salt Lake refuges and the claim was they were depleting the food source in the various refuge holding areas hence the hunting.

Offline lokidog

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Re: Swans
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 08:50:15 AM »
I think it's funny all the people who are surprised that Washington doesn't have a season or something is done wrong here. We are one of the worst states around from hunting regulations to minimum wage. The basin sees huge numbers of Cranes but we don't get to shoot them either.
The feds would have to allow WDFW to open a swan season in WA before WDFW could open a season.

The Feds might be more likely if we had a hunter friendly WDFW to push it.   :(

Offline CP

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Re: Swans
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 09:28:57 AM »
A good read:

http://pacificflyway.gov/documents/wts_plan.pdf

c. Procedures for New Hunt Proposals

1. The USFWS completed a Final Environmental Assessment for general swan hunting seasons in the Pacific Flyway in 2003 (Appendix C), and at that time included the states of Montana, Utah, and Nevada (Alaska swan season is specifically tundra swans). Any other states wishing to have a swan season will require a revised Environmental Assessment for general swan hunting seasons in the Pacific Flyway. This will need to be completed prior to the Study Committee reviewing a new state hunt proposal.

2. Prior to requesting a new swan hunt, the state must submit a hunt plan proposal to the Study Committee at least 30 days prior to the Subcommittee meeting at which approval is sought. Hunt proposals must include: (a) description of hunt area boundaries; (b) a summary of numbers of swans, species composition, and seasonal use patterns in the proposed hunt area; (c) number of permits requested; (d) anticipated harvest; (e) season length and dates; (f) description of the permit process; and (g) proposed methods for obtaining reliable data on harvest and hunter activity.

Offline Stein

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Re: Swans
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2017, 11:17:41 AM »
Spragens, Kyle   Kyle.Spragens@dfw.wa.gov   360-902-2522

He's the guy that sits on the swan group from WDFW.

Online huntingfool7

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Re: Swans
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2017, 07:15:33 PM »
I shot several in Utah years ago when it was legal.  They had/have a draw system for one bird a year and I think they issued 2000 permits.  Kind of like shooting down a small airplane (lol) and not really great eating.  Very dark meat and not fun to pick.  Used to try to get one that was still a little gray as they were the younger ones and better eating than the fully mature birds. Huge concentrations of them on the Great Salt Lake refuges and the claim was they were depleting the food source in the various refuge holding areas hence the hunting.
Utah still issues swan permits on a drawing basis with a point system.  I have a couple points in Utah.  I've been told that draw odds in Utah have you hunting every other year or so.  It didn't work out that way for me.  Montana also issues permits, I believe draw odds are about 50%.  We drew two tags in North Dakota this year and put tags on a couple of them.  Swan is fine eating.  Like most fowl, the quality of the table fare depends heavily on the cook.  I like to fix it in the slow cooker with potatoes and gravy.  Delicious!

Offline Man Tracker

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Re: Swans
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2017, 09:30:02 PM »
Once again, our problem remains that both Tundra (huntable numbers) and Trumpeter Swan (USFWS Endangered list) co-mingle in much of western WA.  DFW lacks the resolve to see if it is feasible to harvest Tundra w/o impacting Trumpeters.

Offline full choke

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Re: Swans
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2017, 10:33:50 PM »
Once again, our problem remains that both Tundra (huntable numbers) and Trumpeter Swan (USFWS Endangered list) co-mingle in much of western WA.  DFW lacks the resolve to see if it is feasible to harvest Tundra w/o impacting Trumpeters.

It is not feasible.
We had a supposedly well reguarded permit tag holder shoot a 400"+ bull elk in a spike only unit and claim the regs were unclear, and we think some sky busting yahoo is going to differentiate a trumpeter swan from a tundra swan on a rainy December day at 45 yds on the wing?? Ever step foot on fir island during duck season? It is sad. I have seen guys shoot swans thinking they were snow geese!
How many times a year do you see pictures on this site and others of someone asking " anyone know what the dead duck on the left of the pile is?"?
We have a better chance of keeping 30 round mags than ever having the opportunity of a swan permit in this state...
Winter is coming.

Online Colin

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Re: Swans
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2017, 04:42:30 AM »
Once again, our problem remains that both Tundra (huntable numbers) and Trumpeter Swan (USFWS Endangered list) co-mingle in much of western WA.  DFW lacks the resolve to see if it is feasible to harvest Tundra w/o impacting Trumpeters.
This is exactly right. I can't tell the difference unless they are calling. There would be so many people killing trumpeters instead of tundras. Enforcement nightmare and plain easy to make a mistake.

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Offline singleshot12

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Re: Swans
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2017, 05:26:47 AM »
Probably not feasible, but if DFW put hi-vis neck collars on some of the huntable swans atleast we would have an opportunity. I'm sure most of us would pay $25+ for a chance to bag one here in Washington.
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Re: Swans
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2017, 06:05:03 AM »
Once again, our problem remains that both Tundra (huntable numbers) and Trumpeter Swan (USFWS Endangered list) co-mingle in much of western WA.  DFW lacks the resolve to see if it is feasible to harvest Tundra w/o impacting Trumpeters.
This is exactly right. I can't tell the difference unless they are calling. There would be so many people killing trumpeters instead of tundras. Enforcement nightmare and plain easy to make a mistake.

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This is a non issue in other states.  Take the Utah swan test.  Shotgunning is a short range game, telling them apart is not that difficult.  https://dwrapps.utah.gov/wex/dbconnection.jsp?examnbr=508407

If you're serious about hunting in Utah, record your user name and password.  You will need it later.

Offline CP

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Re: Swans
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2017, 06:27:39 AM »
Once again, our problem remains that both Tundra (huntable numbers) and Trumpeter Swan (USFWS Endangered list) co-mingle in much of western WA.  DFW lacks the resolve to see if it is feasible to harvest Tundra w/o impacting Trumpeters.

Trumpeter swans are not on the endangered list, no swan is:

https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/profile/speciesProfile?sId=7958

Properly identifying swans is easier than picking out the duskies from the other 6 subspecies of Canada geese.  WDFW has no problems running that program, they could do the same with swans.

 

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