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Author Topic: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies  (Read 2687 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 08:14:45 AM »
I saw this.  :tup: I bet the animal rights people are losing their minds right now.  :chuckle:
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline RB

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 08:21:03 AM »
I saw this.  :tup: I bet the animal rights people are losing their minds right now.  :chuckle:


 :yeah:
IAFF #3728

Bob Beam

Offline C-Money

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 08:23:56 AM »
Thats cool...maybe he can tackle the predator problems out west now?
I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 08:29:14 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
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Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 08:34:10 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.

Offline olyguy79

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 08:35:15 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:yeah:

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 08:35:35 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.

 :tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline olyguy79

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 08:43:16 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

Offline Stein

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 09:03:58 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

Language providing clear guidance on how and when animals will be removed to limit or prevent groups from suing.  One of the big issues is that animals go on and almost never are removed.  Lawsuits can keep them on the list decades after they should be removed. 

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 10:20:41 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline wapiti hunter2

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 10:53:40 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Case 3: Wild Horses:

Offline Special T

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 11:00:20 AM »
I belive he instructed to EPA to no longer engage in settling with groups, doing away with the air and settle tactic.

If that is expanded to USFS & USFWS that would go a long way to helping these issues.

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Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 11:04:44 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
Case 3: Wild Horses:
Wild horses are protected under another law, not the ESA.

Offline olyguy79

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?
1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
So essentially your saying since there's 60,000 wolves in North America they shouldn't be endangered anywhere. Does that mean since mountain lions/cougars are endangered in Florida they should be endangered nationwide?

It seems like you want an all or nothing approach vs. the regional approach we currently have.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 11:14:37 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?
2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
Proof is required, that's why NMFS and USFWS decline to list species every year. You have people like a retired WA DOF biologist in the Olympia area who has petitioned NMFS to essentially list every salmon/steelhead/bottomfish in WA, most of which NMFS has declined to list.

The biggest issue I've seen is the de-listing. USFWS/NMFS goes to de-list and bam lawsuit which many times is upheld by a judge.

You can't put a blanket number on the recovery of all species because I would assume most would agree that 1,000 wolves is different than 1,000 steelhead.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 11:43:17 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 11:46:02 AM »
As to the OP, I find it ironic that the symbol of the Republican Party is the elephant. 
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Special T

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
I saw this.  :tup: I bet the animal rights people are losing their minds right now.  :chuckle:


 :yeah:
I  know a couple that are and it makes me chuckle. No amount of explanation seems to penetrate how much conservation funding comes from managed hunting in africa.  Renewable resources are important, except when they are animals.

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Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 05:25:00 PM »
That didn't last long. The reversal is now on hold.

Online Bookworm007

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 06:09:09 PM »
Never really understood shooting an animal as just a trophy.... If you aren't going to eat it why not let it be, especially when elephants are populations are on decline.
"I ain't never had too much fun"

Offline Britt-dog

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »
Never really understood shooting an animal as just a trophy.... If you aren't going to eat it why not let it be, especially when elephants are populations are on decline.
Please educate yourself about elephant hunting and African hunting in general. Every bit of the animal is eaten or utilized in some way by locals and neighbors. They are very appreciative and flock to the kill sites. Elephant hunting benefits the animals and communities in many ways.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 07:00:41 PM »
Trump has just ordered the lifting of the ban to be placed on hold.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2017, 07:40:31 PM »
Does this have any effect on the ivory trade?

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 09:02:34 PM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
You might want to look that up. Boreal Woodland Caribou are listed as threatened in Canada. Don't confuse them with other caribou species which are abundant.
Consider this though, lynx are very abundant in Canada and AK. The lower 48 has a few but they are on the periphery of their range. WA, ID, MT, MN, and Maine have a few and this has spawned a raft full of lawsuits with intended purpose of stopping trapping in the mentioned states. Maine has been hit the hardest because they actually have a decent lynx population in the northern part of the state. They finally received an incidental take permit from the USFWS which as I remember limits them to 5 lynx over 7 years. Still they have problems because the lynx population is growing because of habitat changes (more logging). the difference of literally a few feet could mean the shut down of trapping in northern Maine or another Lynx pelt legally sent to market on the Canadian side.
Then you have Polar Bears which seem to be at or near a peak in population but are on the threatened list because of maybe global warming might effect them at some point in the future?
Bruce Vandervort

 

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