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Author Topic: bloody effluent  (Read 1099 times)

Offline KFhunter

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bloody effluent
« on: November 28, 2017, 08:29:28 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42115794


Bloody sewage from Canada fish plant 'threatens' wild salmon

The red water samples collected later tested positive for pathogens potentially harmful to fish: PRV and Piscirickettsia salmonis bacteria.

The plants process farmed Atlantic salmon that are raised in open-net farms in the region, a major centre for the province's aquaculture industry.
Biologist Alex Morton sent the samples Campbell collected for testing at the Atlantic Veterinary College at the University of Prince Edward Island.


I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline cohoho

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 03:09:26 PM »
Yea saw that yesterday, crazy to think nothing is being done about it. 

Offline plugger

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 01:59:52 PM »
Doesn't Victoria dump there sewage into the straits? Thinking that would be worse.

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 02:37:08 PM »
And the witch hunt against farmed fish continues....

What do you think the results would be if they tested the outflow pipes from a plant that processes "wild" fish?  I'd bet it is the same. 

I have yet to see definitive evidence of these fish "taking over rivers and spawning", "competing for food", "giving wild fish diseases", "cross breeding with native fish", etc.  Sure, there are environmental impacts in the immediate area of the pens because of the increased amount of organics entering the system, but look at any animal farming operation and you will see the same thing. Look at the waste produced by any type of slaughterhouse, I bet is is as or nearly as bad.

BTW, I visited the Wallace Creek Hatchery a few days ago, in one pond, two of three fish had huge fungal growths on them. Where do the spores go?  Into the rivers where "wild" fish live? Do they treat these fish with antifungals or other antibiotics?  Where does that runoff go?

Just some food for thought.

Offline Alchase

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 03:12:34 PM »
Doesn't Victoria dump there sewage into the straits? Thinking that would be worse.

Yes they do, so does Vancouver.
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Offline Cylvertip

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 03:47:25 PM »
I don't think I would be swimming anywhere near where they are basically chumming for sharks.  Just sayin :dunno:
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Offline Bill W

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 04:22:34 PM »
I could see that bringing in a load of six gill sharks.

Offline WaltAlpine

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 05:23:39 PM »
And the witch hunt against farmed fish continues....

What do you think the results would be if they tested the outflow pipes from a plant that processes "wild" fish?  I'd bet it is the same. 

I have yet to see definitive evidence of these fish "taking over rivers and spawning", "competing for food", "giving wild fish diseases", "cross breeding with native fish", etc.  Sure, there are environmental impacts in the immediate area of the pens because of the increased amount of organics entering the system, but look at any animal farming operation and you will see the same thing. Look at the waste produced by any type of slaughterhouse, I bet is is as or nearly as bad.

BTW, I visited the Wallace Creek Hatchery a few days ago, in one pond, two of three fish had huge fungal growths on them. Where do the spores go?  Into the rivers where "wild" fish live? Do they treat these fish with antifungals or other antibiotics?  Where does that runoff go?

Just some food for thought.

Well, There are cases of all of the above except, "cross breeding with native fish". Farmed fish are a nightmare for everything except the economy.
If it were harmless then when the pens break the DFW wouldn't be begging for everybody to get out there and catch them all.

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 05:39:08 PM »
And the witch hunt against farmed fish continues....

What do you think the results would be if they tested the outflow pipes from a plant that processes "wild" fish?  I'd bet it is the same. 

I have yet to see definitive evidence of these fish "taking over rivers and spawning", "competing for food", "giving wild fish diseases", "cross breeding with native fish", etc.  Sure, there are environmental impacts in the immediate area of the pens because of the increased amount of organics entering the system, but look at any animal farming operation and you will see the same thing. Look at the waste produced by any type of slaughterhouse, I bet is is as or nearly as bad.

BTW, I visited the Wallace Creek Hatchery a few days ago, in one pond, two of three fish had huge fungal growths on them. Where do the spores go?  Into the rivers where "wild" fish live? Do they treat these fish with antifungals or other antibiotics?  Where does that runoff go?

Just some food for thought.

Well, There are cases of all of the above except, "cross breeding with native fish". Farmed fish are a nightmare for everything except the economy.
If it were harmless then when the pens break the DFW wouldn't be begging for everybody to get out there and catch them all.

Please show me the evidence.  There have been farmed Atlantics in Puget Sound for over forty years, as I said, I haven't seen any evidence of them being the three horsemen of the apocalypse as some would like everyone to believe.  And sure, a few have spawned in rivers, but a problem?  Not even close.  In fact, attempts were made to establish them on the west coast and they all failed.  WDFW has open season on all non-native species in WA.  They pushed it so fishermen would actually feel like they were doing something for a change and getting something out of our license fees.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 05:51:26 PM »
We should look at Norway for evidence, they're the largest fish farmers (salmon).

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jfd.12688/full


read this, it's eye opening.

This is the conclusion
Quote
5 CONCLUSIONS

SGPV was widely distributed in wild Atlantic salmon returning from marine migration. In addition, characteristic gill lesions, including apoptosis, were detected in this species. A low amount of viral DNA was detected in anadromous trout, but only in fish that had been cohabiting with SGPV-positive salmon before sampling. SGPV was absent in trout and salmon from non-anadromous water courses, and thus seems to be primarily linked to the marine environment. In addition, this finding lends support to the suggestion that trout are not natural hosts for SGPV. All Arctic char were PCR-negative, but due to a low sample size, these results are inconclusive. The use of freshwater from anadromous water sources may constitute a risk of introducing SGPV to hatcheries. On the other hand, a substantial number of infected farmed salmon constitute a considerable potential for virus propagation and spillback to wild populations. This interaction should therefore be further investigated.
I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 06:08:02 PM »
And where, pray tell, would the Atlantics get these viruses?  The eggs they hatch don't have them, they would only catch what is already in  the environment.  These fish are more susceptible to the diseases they catch from the local fish because they have not evolved to be resistant to them.  And, try not to let "evolve" get in the way of understanding science.

Your Norway comparison is apples to oranges, the farmed fish in Norway are the same species as the local fish, ours are not.  This is the reason it is allowed to farm Atlantics and not Chinook, Coho, or the like, unless you are a state or tribal hatchery, then it's OK.

Unless you are all against hatcheries as well, it is very hypocritical to be against farmed Atlantic salmon.

I'm done now, bye bye, until I see some actual evidence.....

Offline KFhunter

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 06:15:25 PM »


hey don't get all bent over this, I know literally next to nothing about the industry nor am I against it.
I understand you've got some skin in this game and know way more than I, so how about sharing instead of huffing off all mad like?

I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 06:32:26 PM »


hey don't get all bent over this, I know literally next to nothing about the industry nor am I against it.
I understand you've got some skin in this game and know way more than I, so how about sharing instead of huffing off all mad like?

Sorry, just had some recent ignorance to deal with on FB regarding this.  I just don't know what else to say.  There is all kinds of doom and gloom professed toward this "evil", but I have yet to see any actual evidence.  I work with one of the most knowledgeable people in the area regarding the creatures and health of the Salish Sea and he can show no evidence supporting the hatred either.

Our native salmon problems have nothing to do with farmed fish, look to; habitat (though with millions spent "improving" freshwater habitat with little/no positive results shown, this is debatable); over harvest of certain stocks or unsustainable fishing methods; health of juvenile salmon food fish populations in Puget Sound (this being one of the largest factors in low survival of fish originating especially in the South Sound); and changing ocean conditions.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2017, 06:38:40 PM »
Thanks lokidog  :tup:
I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 06:46:22 PM »
BTW, I'm not saying pumping nasty crap into our wonderful waters is in any way a good thing.....

Offline KFhunter

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 06:49:28 PM »
BTW, I'm not saying pumping nasty crap into our wonderful waters is in any way a good thing.....

I don't buy that, did you see all the fish feeding on those salmon chunks?  I was thinking about anchoring there  :chuckle:
I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 07:01:26 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 07:04:26 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO

Same could be said for all farming from agriculture to aquaculture and everything in between. There's always a compromise.  Agriculture lands used to feed the world once fed millions of bison. 

fact is there's a lot of mouths to feed, so sacrafices must be made.  We cannot live off the land eating nothing but wild grass seeds, venison and wild salmon.   That's a pipe dream.
I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2017, 07:19:44 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO

There are no steroids or hormones or genetic engineering with farmed Atlantic salmon, this is part of all of the misinformation out there.  People just latch onto someone's talking point about something else (beef, chicken, pork, pretty much all terrestrially commercially farmed animals) and stick it somewhere else.

Organic?  Have you seen what is found in the tissues of wild seafood? Antibiotics, depressants, birth control medication, mercury, PCBs, etc. none of which are intentionally given to them. I'd be very interested to compare a tissue sample of farm raised Atlantic salmon and a salmon from the Nisqually River to see which had actually "healthier" meat.

Let's face it, people like to eat salmon.  There is no possible way to manage "wild" salmon in sustainable numbers to feed (no pun intended) the demand for salmon. I would say that, like oil tankers, net pens should require a double layer of protection (netting).

Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 07:20:45 PM »
Being from rural Alaska, itís not a pipe dream.

I consider myself lucky to not have had beef until the age of 18. Itís too bad a greater percentage of the worlds people can not experience that way of life.

Elders consistently live to be 100+ years old and diet plays a big part.

I am glad in a way that the net pens failed this past summer, the big corporations are under the microscope now.
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Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 07:25:36 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO

There are no steroids or hormones or genetic engineering with farmed Atlantic salmon, this is part of all of the misinformation out there.  People just latch onto someone's talking point about something else (beef, chicken, pork, pretty much all terrestrially commercially farmed animals) and stick it somewhere else.

Organic?  Have you seen what is found in the tissues of wild seafood? Antibiotics, depressants, birth control medication, mercury, PCBs, etc. none of which are intentionally given to them. I'd be very interested to compare a tissue sample of farm raised Atlantic salmon and a salmon from the Nisqually River to see which had actually "healthier" meat.

Let's face it, people like to eat salmon.  There is no possible way to manage "wild" salmon in sustainable numbers to feed (no pun intended) the demand for salmon. I would say that, like oil tankers, net pens should require a double layer of protection (netting).

Antibiotics contain steroid compounds.

Yellow mount is treated with antibiotics.

I donít see where the confusion or misinformation is?
Spider 2 Y banana

Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 07:28:51 PM »
And all of the pharma that is dumped into puget sound is disgusting.
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Offline lokidog

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 07:41:04 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO

There are no steroids or hormones or genetic engineering with farmed Atlantic salmon, this is part of all of the misinformation out there.  People just latch onto someone's talking point about something else (beef, chicken, pork, pretty much all terrestrially commercially farmed animals) and stick it somewhere else.

Organic?  Have you seen what is found in the tissues of wild seafood? Antibiotics, depressants, birth control medication, mercury, PCBs, etc. none of which are intentionally given to them. I'd be very interested to compare a tissue sample of farm raised Atlantic salmon and a salmon from the Nisqually River to see which had actually "healthier" meat.

Let's face it, people like to eat salmon.  There is no possible way to manage "wild" salmon in sustainable numbers to feed (no pun intended) the demand for salmon. I would say that, like oil tankers, net pens should require a double layer of protection (netting).

Antibiotics contain steroid compounds.

Yellow mount is treated with antibiotics.

I donít see where the confusion or misinformation is?

Antibiotics are not, nor do they contain steroids.  Antibiotic use in aquaculture, is, as far as I have been able to determine, regulated to only being used to actively treat a condition unlike the other farming where it can be used simply to help fatten up animals like chickens, pigs or cows.

Yes, yellowmouth is treated with antibiotics, so what?  You have not given any proof, just more misinformation.  Are you against farming animals of any kind? At least be consistent.....

And all of the pharma that is dumped into puget sound is disgusting.

This we can agree upon.

Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 07:51:08 PM »
Loki.

I do not present misinformation. I base my thoughts and opinions on research. I would invite you to do the same sir.

Yes I am against farmed fish.

Where do you stand? Are you in favor of proper management of wild stock or farming/hatchery raised stock?
Spider 2 Y banana

Offline Stein

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 07:57:31 PM »
So, we should wait until there is evidence of something catastrophic like cross-breeding or introduction of some disease and then say "whoops, sorry about that looks like there was an unintended consequence?"  Look at the trouble we have with our fisheries and ask how many times we are willing to roll the dice so Costco can have a full case of cheap artificially dyed pink salmon?  Season after season are closed and one little hiccup would be unbelievably bad.

I would say we can simply look at any other operation that packs tons of animals into an artificially small place and then feeds them whatever is cheapest at the time.  Head to a chicken place or a big feedlot out of Amarillo and I can learn all I need to know in one sniff.  There is a reason it is illegal to post photos of those joints.

If you want farmed fish, put them on land, it's not worth the risk in my opinion.  The idea that we allow it until there is a scientifically proven problem that is 100% documented and proven through lawsuits and appeals and cannot reverse the damage seems foolish.  If you want to eat great salmon, buy a license or pull out the debit card and pay fair market price.

At the end of the day, nobody can say it is safe, the best they can say is that nobody (we acknowledge) has found a problem (yet).

Offline kodiak 907

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Re: bloody effluent
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 08:01:35 PM »
Fish/game farms should not exist. Proper management of what wild stock remains needs to be the answer.

Wild organic fish and game. No steroids, no hormones.


Pretty clear IMO

There are no steroids or hormones or genetic engineering with farmed Atlantic salmon, this is part of all of the misinformation out there.  People just latch onto someone's talking point about something else (beef, chicken, pork, pretty much all terrestrially commercially farmed animals) and stick it somewhere else.

Organic?  Have you seen what is found in the tissues of wild seafood? Antibiotics, depressants, birth control medication, mercury, PCBs, etc. none of which are intentionally given to them. I'd be very interested to compare a tissue sample of farm raised Atlantic salmon and a salmon from the Nisqually River to see which had actually "healthier" meat.

Let's face it, people like to eat salmon.  There is no possible way to manage "wild" salmon in sustainable numbers to feed (no pun intended) the demand for salmon. I would say that, like oil tankers, net pens should require a double layer of protection (netting).

Antibiotics contain steroid compounds.

Yellow mount is treated with antibiotics.

I donít see where the confusion or misinformation is?

Antibiotics are not, nor do they contain steroids.  Antibiotic use in aquaculture, is, as far as I have been able to determine, regulated to only being used to actively treat a condition unlike the other farming where it can be used simply to help fatten up animals like chickens, pigs or cows.

Yes, yellowmouth is treated with antibiotics, so what?  You have not given any proof, just more misinformation.  Are you against farming animals of any kind? At least be consistent.....

And all of the pharma that is dumped into puget sound is disgusting.

This we can agree upon.

The topic is farmed Atlantic salmon. I have been consistent with the topic. I only offered my experience with farm raised beef as part of my background.

I can see we will agree to disagree on farming Atlantic salmon in puget sound.

Good day.
Spider 2 Y banana

 

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