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Author Topic: More blood and guts  (Read 7739 times)

Offline Green broke

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2018, 08:07:10 PM »
Wish I lived closer, I’d video what’s going on in the feed station.  If someone has pics and or video they should send it to the local news and don’t mention natives, they’ll probably report it as poaching by white hunters.
If you want to paint hunting in a poor light with your media blitz, expect reciprocation. It would not be a tall task to video and document some bad behavior during the state season.  Think for a second about demographics and the state where we live.  I'm sure all the bleeding hearts you want to contact would love to see non true spikes left to rot and your WDFW would love to hang sportsman out to dry and pile it on.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2018, 08:19:00 PM »
Wish I lived closer, I’d video what’s going on in the feed station.  If someone has pics and or video they should send it to the local news and don’t mention natives, they’ll probably report it as poaching by white hunters.
If you want to paint hunting in a poor light with your media blitz, expect reciprocation. It would not be a tall task to video and document some bad behavior during the state season.  Think for a second about demographics and the state where we live.  I'm sure all the bleeding hearts you want to contact would love to see non true spikes left to rot and your WDFW would love to hang sportsman out to dry and pile it on.
trust me, we would be on the same side if you had a chance to video non natives poaching. When ever there are non natives caught poaching it’s all over this forum, which is good.
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Offline Green broke

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2018, 08:25:22 PM »
Wish I lived closer, I’d video what’s going on in the feed station.  If someone has pics and or video they should send it to the local news and don’t mention natives, they’ll probably report it as poaching by white hunters.
If you want to paint hunting in a poor light with your media blitz, expect reciprocation. It would not be a tall task to video and document some bad behavior during the state season.  Think for a second about demographics and the state where we live.  I'm sure all the bleeding hearts you want to contact would love to see non true spikes left to rot and your WDFW would love to hang sportsman out to dry and pile it on.
trust me, we would be on the same side if you had a chance to video non natives poaching. When ever there are non natives caught poaching it’s all over this forum, which is good.
TheYakamas are legally hunting, not poaching. 

Online h20hunter

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2018, 08:31:12 PM »
Slaughtering. Not hunting.  Fish in a barrel.
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2018, 09:07:42 PM »
Wish I lived closer, I’d video what’s going on in the feed station.  If someone has pics and or video they should send it to the local news and don’t mention natives, they’ll probably report it as poaching by white hunters.
If you want to paint hunting in a poor light with your media blitz, expect reciprocation. It would not be a tall task to video and document some bad behavior during the state season.  Think for a second about demographics and the state where we live.  I'm sure all the bleeding hearts you want to contact would love to see non true spikes left to rot and your WDFW would love to hang sportsman out to dry and pile it on.
trust me, we would be on the same side if you had a chance to video non natives poaching. When ever there are non natives caught poaching it’s all over this forum, which is good.
TheYakamas are legally hunting, not poaching.

Green Broke is right.

People don't need to like it, but there is a world of difference between poaching and hunting a legal season. 

Heck, I don't like that some White people own thousands of acres and get to hunt their own private dream land (and get depredation permits for over the Winter) but that doesn't make it poaching.   They were just born with a different birthright than me.
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Offline cryder

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2018, 06:10:22 AM »
Say it AGAIN ! HUH ? OH ! O K ! One day we will all end up on the same and last legal trail left to hunt , we will all cross paths and realize it is over as we liked it , and will realize it's time to turn the page . Turn  ( your ) missle launchers , muzzies , crime guns , and bows into just plinking toys , man was never meant to be meat eaters anyways so we will then be victims of fish n feathers and full circle reality the more I get out there the more ahead of the inevitable knee buckling bender curve ball that we all no is comeing , the count is 3 n 2 and it's time to give it your best swing , before the clown we elected finds a profitable motion to take it away 🤣😂😂😂  j ( just kiddn ? ) Don't wanna light any fires , well at the risk of repeating myself again I'll stop thinking , anyways , everybody , welcome back from the sindacated financial season , and until the next walk of shame to the tag counter , Happy Easter ? Or is that the stride of pride ? U decide 😂😂🤡🤡
loction location location ! perzackly !

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2018, 06:35:51 AM »
Same issue every year. Unless something is done about it they are going to evoke "Their Right". It's just sad that they feel the need to do it in such a defenseless area.

Offline MarkTrail

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2018, 07:02:07 AM »
Dan-o, your comparison to large private landowners is a joke right? Birthright? Wow, as a landowner with "special rules" I am allowed one deer with regular state tag and another with my special depredation kill permit. With that privilege I have to pay property, sales, income tax etc.
   You people who do not live in the general areas will never understand. I can assure you that the Washington sportsman is not harvesting 50% of the branch bulls. The "natives" are killing way more than we legally harvest. The huge reduction in cow tags was certainly not in response to winter kill. I hike our mountains way more than the average person and I found very few winter kills. Get your heads out of the sand people this a bad situation getting worst.
   I could and do rant forever but I will leave you intelligent supporters with one thought. How many deer, elk are the tribes killing? I will answer for you, don't know! They have no accountability towards management. Zero reporting or limits. Just consider it unlimited gov tags everyday.
   Legal poaching! That's what it is...

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2018, 07:13:51 AM »
Dan-o, your comparison to large private landowners is a joke right? Birthright? Wow, as a landowner with "special rules" I am allowed one deer with regular state tag and another with my special depredation kill permit. With that privilege I have to pay property, sales, income tax etc.
   You people who do not live in the general areas will never understand. I can assure you that the Washington sportsman is not harvesting 50% of the branch bulls. The "natives" are killing way more than we legally harvest. The huge reduction in cow tags was certainly not in response to winter kill. I hike our mountains way more than the average person and I found very few winter kills. Get your heads out of the sand people this a bad situation getting worst.
   I could and do rant forever but I will leave you intelligent supporters with one thought. How many deer, elk are the tribes killing? I will answer for you, don't know! They have no accountability towards management. Zero reporting or limits. Just consider it unlimited gov tags everyday.
   Legal poaching! That's what it is...
"BOOM"  :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:  Perfectly said!!!!
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Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2018, 07:23:57 AM »
Dan-o, your comparison to large private landowners is a joke right? Birthright? Wow, as a landowner with "special rules" I am allowed one deer with regular state tag and another with my special depredation kill permit. With that privilege I have to pay property, sales, income tax etc.
   You people who do not live in the general areas will never understand. I can assure you that the Washington sportsman is not harvesting 50% of the branch bulls. The "natives" are killing way more than we legally harvest. The huge reduction in cow tags was certainly not in response to winter kill. I hike our mountains way more than the average person and I found very few winter kills. Get your heads out of the sand people this a bad situation getting worst.
   I could and do rant forever but I will leave you intelligent supporters with one thought. How many deer, elk are the tribes killing? I will answer for you, don't know! They have no accountability towards management. Zero reporting or limits. Just consider it unlimited gov tags everyday.
   Legal poaching! That's what it is...
"BOOM"  :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:  Perfectly said!!!!

I'm ashamed I even play the point game! I can't wait to draw so I never put another dime into their programs. I've been applying for easy stuff. Luckily antlerless deer is zeroed out. Onto everything else now

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2018, 07:37:28 AM »
I am thinking there is a wolf in sheep's cl0othing trying to make us believe its not just legalized poaching.

Offline JM

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2018, 08:49:50 AM »
Dan-o, your comparison to large private landowners is a joke right? Birthright? Wow, as a landowner with "special rules" I am allowed one deer with regular state tag and another with my special depredation kill permit. With that privilege I have to pay property, sales, income tax etc.
   You people who do not live in the general areas will never understand. I can assure you that the Washington sportsman is not harvesting 50% of the branch bulls. The "natives" are killing way more than we legally harvest. The huge reduction in cow tags was certainly not in response to winter kill. I hike our mountains way more than the average person and I found very few winter kills. Get your heads out of the sand people this a bad situation getting worst.
   I could and do rant forever but I will leave you intelligent supporters with one thought. How many deer, elk are the tribes killing? I will answer for you, don't know! They have no accountability towards management. Zero reporting or limits. Just consider it unlimited gov tags everyday.
   Legal poaching! That's what it is...

I agree with you 110% on everything that you said except for the reduced # of cow tags. I can only speak for the Cowiche unit, but the main reason for the reduced number of cow tags for 368 is due to the number of cows harvested with depredation permits. I sure as hell can't be upset though because I was one of the people that put a depredation tag on a cow in January. The real dumb thing about this is that the elk being harvested on these permits in the Cowiche are either from the Rez herds or from the local herd from behind the store. Like I said earlier I can only speak for the Cowiche unit.

Offline cavemann

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2018, 08:51:30 AM »
The last go around of secret mediated meetings to sidestep the public for fishing rights and complete refusal to report harvest numbers has destroyed any credibility the tribes have.  As I've stated before WDFW gets lit up like a Christmas tree here because of there lack of credibility not prejudice..  The same goes for the tribes for me now.  If we want to continue to respect original land rights and use lets do it.  Let the Muks, Yaks, Skoks and all of them fight it out like they used to.  Why force them to work together, lets the best tribe win.  The double standard of them unifying for their benefit and screwing us over is ludicrous.


Offline vandeman17

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2018, 09:09:07 AM »
So much to say but not worth the time.

What's the definition of insanity...?  :bash:
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline Dan-o

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2018, 11:10:59 AM »
And no - my comparison was not a joke. 

 "our" government made a deal with "their" government.

Now most of us don't like the terms.    I don't either, by the way.

But our government made a treaty.   The Yakama's are hunting legally. That is not poaching.   It is not close. And most of us that hunt have tried to use weather to our advantage when possible. I've shot some mighty difficult elk, and some mighty easy ones over the years.   An easy hunt doesn't make it poaching, either. 

For the record:   I would LOVE for the treaty to be renegotiated, but I am not in favor of unilaterally breaking an agreement. Not with the Yakama's.  I believe in the rule of law...... and you can't really have that if you walk away from agreements when they no longer favor you. 

What I think would be constructive:    the US gov't doing anything and everything legally possible to compell the tribes to renegotiate. And I mean everything. Including discretionary Federal funds. 

I'd love to see a level playing field; but I won't fault the Yakama's for the fact that their ancestors made a treaty with the US that is now working well for them in some regards.

Be well. 
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2018, 11:18:22 AM »
shooting a lots of does and fawns up in the Wenas and numbers are way down

so much for worshipping nature in a toyota tacoma  with a lift kit, a bed full of empty beer cans shooting from the road
are you guys talking about natives? Seriously, if this is about native hunting, then just say it!

I couldn’t tell you who did it.  Not sure I know anyone ballsey enough to pull it off other than someone who can legally do it.

Though I can’t believe anyone is that worthless to shoot an animal at a feeding station

Not much different than baiting. Just on a larger scale.
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2018, 11:22:40 AM »
Or like shooting the neighborhood deer, sporting. Then cut the horns off and walk away.

Offline vandeman17

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2018, 11:32:53 AM »
shooting a lots of does and fawns up in the Wenas and numbers are way down

so much for worshipping nature in a toyota tacoma  with a lift kit, a bed full of empty beer cans shooting from the road
are you guys talking about natives? Seriously, if this is about native hunting, then just say it!

I couldn’t tell you who did it.  Not sure I know anyone ballsey enough to pull it off other than someone who can legally do it.

Though I can’t believe anyone is that worthless to shoot an animal at a feeding station

Not much different than baiting. Just on a larger scale.

Comparing this to baiting, give me a break.
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline MarkTrail

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2018, 11:38:54 AM »
Jm, I absolutely agree with your assessment in regards to 368. The state does a poor job of maintaining the elk fence in some areas. The south end of the yakima herd and the north end(ellensburg) got pounded last winter by depredation tags. The state lead us to believe it was winter kill.

Offline B4noon

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2018, 12:27:04 PM »
The hardest pill to swallow in the great debate weather you agree with the treaty rights or not personally I would rather see more oversight and have co-management to prevent over harvest the sour stomach gets you when you live in the area and have first hand knowledge that its not for subsistence the majority of it is for profit which I don't believe their ancestors negotiated a treaty on the basis of profit more so on the basis of subsistence.  There is great money being made by selling trophy antlers they aren't stacking them in the garage or putting them on the wall rather selling for profit.  The excess meat is a bi product and for years it's been no secret in yakima where to go to buy an elk carcass for $100.  It's not as much a practice of taking what we need from the environment to survive it has morphed into dollars running around in the woods and paychecks to cash which in turn desimates populations like anything else there is certainly a few bad apples giving them a black eye when you have 1 or 2 individuals taking over 100 trophy animals a year that's where the tribe needs to step in for their own sake and have some regulation on the raping of the land

Offline cavemann

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2018, 12:39:48 PM »
Dan-O
I can meet you half way in that I agree it is not poaching..  But it also is not being done in good faith any longer either.  The problem is we are dealing with a treaty vs law and one that is long over due for re-negotiation.  I'm sorry, but the way treaties work is based off of leverage.  The US has the leverage but no one wants to use it; and I'd hate for it to come to that.  There in lies the frustration.  The tribes refused to cooperate in good faith while being given decades of lattitude on several fronts (not just hunting/fishing).  I have no issues with the treaty and respecting it but that is a two way street.  Refusing to report harvest, refusing to self regulate and refusing to negotiate in public forum vs secret meetings leaves very few legs to stand on.  It is a perception issue, the treaty is not changing.  If they want to change perception, change the practices...  They have executed every loop hole possible and taken several matters well beyond anyone's reasonable expectation, but hey it's legal...  There is also nothing illegal with the perception and expressing the frustration as well; that is the sad part.

Offline Dan-o

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2018, 12:52:59 PM »
Cavemann,

I think we agree.

As I said, I think the US gov't should use EVERY available lever to renegotiate the treaties.   

And I certainly don't think that having a few people harvest wayyyyyyy more than what they need is an OK plan. 

But, a deal is a deal. So let's use the leverage we have to renegotiate......   because we can't just walk away from the treaty. 
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2018, 01:36:07 PM »
The hardest pill to swallow in the great debate weather you agree with the treaty rights or not personally I would rather see more oversight and have co-management to prevent over harvest the sour stomach gets you when you live in the area and have first hand knowledge that its not for subsistence the majority of it is for profit which I don't believe their ancestors negotiated a treaty on the basis of profit more so on the basis of subsistence.  There is great money being made by selling trophy antlers they aren't stacking them in the garage or putting them on the wall rather selling for profit.  The excess meat is a bi product and for years it's been no secret in yakima where to go to buy an elk carcass for $100.  It's not as much a practice of taking what we need from the environment to survive it has morphed into dollars running around in the woods and paychecks to cash which in turn desimates populations like anything else there is certainly a few bad apples giving them a black eye when you have 1 or 2 individuals taking over 100 trophy animals a year that's where the tribe needs to step in for their own sake and have some regulation on the raping of the land
If I knew for 100% I’d say the names of those bad apples, and if you can go buy an elk for $100, there should be an undercover investigation!  I completely agree with what your saying!
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2018, 01:38:08 PM »
Cavemann,

I think we agree.

As I said, I think the US gov't should use EVERY available lever to renegotiate the treaties.   

And I certainly don't think that having a few people harvest wayyyyyyy more than what they need is an OK plan. 

But, a deal is a deal. So let's use the leverage we have to renegotiate......   because we can't just walk away from the treaty.
Id be willing to support a pay off, give each member 100,000 to follow state rules off the reservation, including all waters.
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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2018, 02:34:33 PM »
The names of the few are pretty well known, and undercover buys have been done multiple times by our enforcement only to hit the upper levels of enforcement with a directive not to prosicute for fear of creating more costly court orders in other areas brought on by the tribe.  The few successful stings have only resulted in non-tribal purchasers getting prosicuted.  Not all tribes are unregulated and the colvilles wold not stand for their members abusing their rights in this way.

 

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