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Author Topic: More blood and guts  (Read 20671 times)

Offline jackelope

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2018, 08:14:05 AM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.
Used to fish the Frazier river with a guide up in Canada, not sure about their hunting feelings, but they are not fond of the native fishing rights.  He used to run over their nets with his boat.

I'm not really a boat expert, but also not sure this would be a great idea. A big old net wrapped up in a prop sounds like a gigantic headache.
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2018, 08:17:40 AM »
What if its a Jet motor?

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #107 on: January 03, 2018, 08:21:24 AM »
Well its good to know that in his taking of 10 or so elk he is probably also killing a fair amount of pregnant cows. Kind of a warm, cozy feeling.

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Offline Southpole

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2018, 08:32:06 AM »
I have been told, that in Idaho, the natives still have to use dip nets to catch their share of fish out of rivers  :dunno:.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2018, 08:39:48 AM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.
Used to fish the Frazier river with a guide up in Canada, not sure about their hunting feelings, but they are not fond of the native fishing rights.  He used to run over their nets with his boat.

I'm not really a boat expert, but also not sure this would be a great idea. A big old net wrapped up in a prop sounds like a gigantic headache.
I should have said that he runs jet motors, your correct, a prop would be a mess.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2018, 08:42:03 AM »
I have been told, that in Idaho, the natives still have to use dip nets to catch their share of fish out of rivers  :dunno:.
not sure about that but they take more than their share of big elk in the blues, on our side of the boarder. 
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Online jmscon

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #111 on: January 03, 2018, 10:23:39 AM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.


In Wyoming there are a lot more recourses and a lot less people,.600,00 in Wyoming .  7 million in wa. The game in Wyoming is scattered over the whole state.

Native American population in Washington is Appx 130,000
Native American population in Wyoming is appx 13,000

Of course they donít have the same problems in Wyoming as we do.

Registered natives in this state number around 61,000, less than half of what you stated.
My interpretation of the rules are open to interpretation.
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #112 on: January 03, 2018, 10:28:25 AM »
Tribal Hunting = one more predator and the only one able to help us control the others..... how can we encourage tribal hound hunting of bear, cougar and wolves?

Some tribes are able to hound hunt but finding someone with hounds is difficult to find

Iím sure their are people willing to use their dogs and haul around a native.  Play the Iím just the white guy riding along and itís his dogs game. Funny thing is. Highly doubt you will get the out rage. If a native piled up 20 bears or cougars. Like you do over elk and deer.

Offline cavemann

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #113 on: January 03, 2018, 10:33:03 AM »
Dan-O
I can meet you half way in that I agree it is not poaching..  But it also is not being done in good faith any longer either.  The problem is we are dealing with a treaty vs law and one that is long over due for re-negotiation.  I'm sorry, but the way treaties work is based off of leverage.  The US has the leverage but no one wants to use it; and I'd hate for it to come to that.  There in lies the frustration.  The tribes refused to cooperate in good faith while being given decades of lattitude on several fronts (not just hunting/fishing).  I have no issues with the treaty and respecting it but that is a two way street.  Refusing to report harvest, refusing to self regulate and refusing to negotiate in public forum vs secret meetings leaves very few legs to stand on.  It is a perception issue, the treaty is not changing.  If they want to change perception, change the practices...  They have executed every loop hole possible and taken several matters well beyond anyone's reasonable expectation, but hey it's legal...  There is also nothing illegal with the perception and expressing the frustration as well; that is the sad part.

You think treaties were negotiated and respected in good faith in the past? Any time the US wanted something the natives had, they broke the treaty.  Most treaties were negotiated at the point of a gun. How's that for leverage? How about fishing treaties? The State of Washington used such good faith in respecting the treaties they billy clubbed native fishermen at Frank's Landing. The Feds flooded traditional fishing spots like Celilo Falls. I don't think they asked the natives their opinion on that or if they wanted to give up fishing there.

Right now, the shoe is on the other foot and you don't like it.  Think of the frustration the Natives had when they were being overrun with European settlers.  I don't think "leverage" or force is gonna generate good will with the tribes. They've had enough of that and are now savvy enough to get good enough lawyers to fight it.  What needs to be done if you want to change things is offer them something of equal or better value to give up some of their treaty rights. Otherwise, you can just cuss your ancestors for not seeing into the future and writing a better treaty for you when they had all the leverage in the original treaty negotiations.

There is plenty emotion and opinion on each side.  My frustration is current  to today's situation an d in reference to public perception based off of current actions.  While I understand things have been frustrating, I'm not looking to continue to argue and debate the merits of frustrations from years, decades and centuries ago.  If that is the case we all will be stuck righting wrongs for much more than Tribal rights.... 

My opinion stands and I don't feel guilty for expressing it.  I'm not calling them poachers or bashing Tribal members.  I'm expressing an opinion based off of the break down of current status because that is the reality of today, not 1850, 1900, 1950 or even 1970...  There has been plenty of positives the Tribes have brought to the table and I appreciate and respect that.  I'm bowing out, in no way is my opinion based off of anything other than public perception as I have stated clearly.

Offline dvolmer

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #114 on: January 03, 2018, 12:53:29 PM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.

Outside of Washington, on most of the reservations in Montana, Wyoming, and other western states, is that the Indians can only hunt on there respective reservations.  In Montana and Wyoming a native american cant just go hunt anywhere he wants too.  He can only hunt on the reservations.  If he hunts off of them, then he has to follow the rules of the state that he lives in.  Somehow the treaty that was made with the Indians in our region was for areas way outside of their reservations.  WDFW quit trying to fight this because every time they arrest or ticket a native, they simply go to our liberal court systems and it gets thrown out.  Your tax money and license money was being wasted fighting a fight that could never be won.  Not only are we paying for the lawyers to fight this but we are paying the lawyers to fight for the Indians.  One of my close friends who works as a biologist for WDFW and shares an office with the wardens told me that the WDFW has given up trying to prosecute the natives because it costs so much and they always loose.  They will hunt with the most modern weapons and equipment but show up in court in feathers and beads smoking the pipe.

Not only are they not going to fight or prosecute this, WDFW is told to not talk about it to the everyday sportsman and not to blame the lack of special permits and reduced animal numbers to the everyday sportsman because they dont want to referee a holy-war!  If the fisherman and hunters in this state really realized the cost of all of this they would go bizerk!  The sportsman is flipping the bill for all of the management and resource and a small number of individuals due to race are glutting themselves due to the loop holes of the law.  This problem is much much bigger than most people on this forum really understand and know.  WDFW is totally frustrated and has there hands tied and on top of this, told to keep their mouths shut.  you guys talk about them selling the meat for profit.  Just think what a set of Boone and Crockett antlers fetch on the market.  Just a decent 6x6 bull elk in the 300 inch class brings hundreds and hundreds of dollars. 

They can drive right down to the feeding stations.  Cut the locks off of the gates.  drive right in.  Shoot 5 to 10 elk right in front of the 5th grade class field trip.  Load them in their truck.  Drive out and sell them.  AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OR WDFW CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!  NOTHING!!!!

How can a resourse ever be managed like this.  It cant!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 01:10:16 PM by dvolmer »
Zonk Volmer

Offline sockeye66

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2018, 02:59:40 PM »
I think non-Tribal casinos should be legal. Hit them in the pocket book. See how long it takes them to see the light.

How's it go (What's good for the goose is good for the gander)
my thoughts exactely :bash: :bash:

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #116 on: January 03, 2018, 04:31:51 PM »

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #117 on: January 03, 2018, 04:34:04 PM »
Now is the time to move on casinos. Trump wants equality, which is all we want as well. Not give one group of people a bunch of special privileges then tell the other group of people they have to live amongst each other and be ok with it.

Offline dvolmer

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #118 on: January 03, 2018, 05:25:40 PM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.

Outside of Washington, on most of the reservations in Montana, Wyoming, and other western states, is that the Indians can only hunt on there respective reservations.  In Montana and Wyoming a native american cant just go hunt anywhere he wants too.  He can only hunt on the reservations.  If he hunts off of them, then he has to follow the rules of the state that he lives in.  Somehow the treaty that was made with the Indians in our region was for areas way outside of their reservations.  WDFW quit trying to fight this because every time they arrest or ticket a native, they simply go to our liberal court systems and it gets thrown out.  Your tax money and license money was being wasted fighting a fight that could never be won.  Not only are we paying for the lawyers to fight this but we are paying the lawyers to fight for the Indians.  One of my close friends who works as a biologist for WDFW and shares an office with the wardens told me that the WDFW has given up trying to prosecute the natives because it costs so much and they always loose.  They will hunt with the most modern weapons and equipment but show up in court in feathers and beads smoking the pipe.

Not only are they not going to fight or prosecute this, WDFW is told to not talk about it to the everyday sportsman and not to blame the lack of special permits and reduced animal numbers to the everyday sportsman because they dont want to referee a holy-war!  If the fisherman and hunters in this state really realized the cost of all of this they would go bizerk!  The sportsman is flipping the bill for all of the management and resource and a small number of individuals due to race are glutting themselves due to the loop holes of the law.  This problem is much much bigger than most people on this forum really understand and know.  WDFW is totally frustrated and has there hands tied and on top of this, told to keep their mouths shut.  you guys talk about them selling the meat for profit.  Just think what a set of Boone and Crockett antlers fetch on the market.  Just a decent 6x6 bull elk in the 300 inch class brings hundreds and hundreds of dollars. 

They can drive right down to the feeding stations.  Cut the locks off of the gates.  drive right in.  Shoot 5 to 10 elk right in front of the 5th grade class field trip.  Load them in their truck.  Drive out and sell them.  AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OR WDFW CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!  NOTHING!!!!

How can a resourse ever be managed like this.  It cant!
Dvolmer your claims are far from reality.  You really must pay a lot of attention to media sensationalizing a story.  Can you provide any facts to base your claims? Your, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy said doesn't hold merit other than to rally the mob.

First of all,  i hunt every year in Washington, Montana, and Wyoming.  My hunting partner who was born and raised here in West Richland graduated from college in Fishing and Wildlife Biology.  He currently works for the state of Montana and i hunt with him every year in Montana and Bi-yearly in Wyoming.  He knows what is going on in Montana with native issues.  My hunting partner here in Washington lives in the Tri-Cities and works for WDFW as a biologist.  Non of these two individuals are friends of friends of my uncles lost cousin.  They are current on the issues that address them in their jobs and in their passion of hunting and fishing.  This thread doesn't even start to address the issues that are way way out of control with native fishing and hunting issues in this state and in Oregon.  Drink all the Kool-Aid you want!  Stick your head in the sand!  Heck, sniff all the glue you want too as far as I care.  Liberals, Wolves, Grizzlies, and natives will be the end of our states hunting before you know it!  Happy hunting!!!
Zonk Volmer

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #119 on: January 03, 2018, 05:42:11 PM »
What makes this a uniquely Washington problem? As I understand it many tribes across the west share the same hunting and fishing rights but I don't hear about how Wyoming wildlife is in shambles due to native harvest.

Outside of Washington, on most of the reservations in Montana, Wyoming, and other western states, is that the Indians can only hunt on there respective reservations.  In Montana and Wyoming a native american cant just go hunt anywhere he wants too.  He can only hunt on the reservations.  If he hunts off of them, then he has to follow the rules of the state that he lives in.  Somehow the treaty that was made with the Indians in our region was for areas way outside of their reservations.  WDFW quit trying to fight this because every time they arrest or ticket a native, they simply go to our liberal court systems and it gets thrown out.  Your tax money and license money was being wasted fighting a fight that could never be won.  Not only are we paying for the lawyers to fight this but we are paying the lawyers to fight for the Indians.  One of my close friends who works as a biologist for WDFW and shares an office with the wardens told me that the WDFW has given up trying to prosecute the natives because it costs so much and they always loose.  They will hunt with the most modern weapons and equipment but show up in court in feathers and beads smoking the pipe.

Not only are they not going to fight or prosecute this, WDFW is told to not talk about it to the everyday sportsman and not to blame the lack of special permits and reduced animal numbers to the everyday sportsman because they dont want to referee a holy-war!  If the fisherman and hunters in this state really realized the cost of all of this they would go bizerk!  The sportsman is flipping the bill for all of the management and resource and a small number of individuals due to race are glutting themselves due to the loop holes of the law.  This problem is much much bigger than most people on this forum really understand and know.  WDFW is totally frustrated and has there hands tied and on top of this, told to keep their mouths shut.  you guys talk about them selling the meat for profit.  Just think what a set of Boone and Crockett antlers fetch on the market.  Just a decent 6x6 bull elk in the 300 inch class brings hundreds and hundreds of dollars. 

They can drive right down to the feeding stations.  Cut the locks off of the gates.  drive right in.  Shoot 5 to 10 elk right in front of the 5th grade class field trip.  Load them in their truck.  Drive out and sell them.  AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU OR WDFW CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!  NOTHING!!!!

How can a resourse ever be managed like this.  It cant!
Dvolmer your claims are far from reality.  You really must pay a lot of attention to media sensationalizing a story.  Can you provide any facts to base your claims? Your, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy said doesn't hold merit other than to rally the mob.

First of all,  i hunt every year in Washington, Montana, and Wyoming.  My hunting partner who was born and raised here in West Richland graduated from college in Fishing and Wildlife Biology.  He currently works for the state of Montana and i hunt with him every year in Montana and Bi-yearly in Wyoming.  He knows what is going on in Montana with native issues.  My hunting partner here in Washington lives in the Tri-Cities and works for WDFW as a biologist.  Non of these two individuals are friends of friends of my uncles lost cousin.  They are current on the issues that address them in their jobs and in their passion of hunting and fishing.  This thread doesn't even start to address the issues that are way way out of control with native fishing and hunting issues in this state and in Oregon.  Drink all the Kool-Aid you want!  Stick your head in the sand!  Heck, sniff all the glue you want too as far as I care.  Liberals, Wolves, Grizzlies, and natives will be the end of our states hunting before you know it!  Happy hunting!!!

Donít forget to add miss management of wildlife from wdfw. They are towards the top of that list.

 

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