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Author Topic: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden  (Read 3042 times)

Offline KFhunter

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 08:11:01 PM »
Sorry but I would not give this person the time of day. The way I see it she's stealing 1.6 million dollars from us, via the WDFW. It blows my mind that they feel this was worth 1.6 million dollars. Total joke if you ask me.

Don't disagree, but I can't blame her for taking advantage of a sucker. 

Seeing as how's she's getting paid anyways, shouldn't we engage?

Offline bobcat

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 08:36:35 PM »
Sorry but I would not give this person the time of day. The way I see it she's stealing 1.6 million dollars from us, via the WDFW. It blows my mind that they feel this was worth 1.6 million dollars. Total joke if you ask me.

Don't disagree, but I can't blame her for taking advantage of a sucker. 

Seeing as how's she's getting paid anyways, shouldn't we engage?

Yes, I suppose so, but I really don't feel like it will make any difference whatsoever. The wolves are here and they're here to stay. I'd rather have seen that 1.6 million spent on habitat.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 08:54:25 PM »
1.6m could have done a lot for habitat and access.


We all know wolves are here to stay, even the most anti wolf hating rancher with a bunch of dead calves or sheep know the wolves are here to stay..but we still need to talk about it, we still need management.  Part of the wolf recovery plan is acceptance by the local stakeholders, Madden is there primarily to facilitate that endeavor, as such we still have a voice in that arena. 

Without public acceptance it won't be long before someone's dropping arsenic meatballs on denning sites.


Offline Humptulips

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2018, 09:02:08 PM »
Not sure why people are talking about the WAG. That is set. She isn't going to be able to change the makeup of the WAG. Not her job.

What I get from it is her talking about putting a hunter representative on her groups advisory council or the steering committee.
So what's that going to do? Any hunter is going to be outnumbered 19 to 1, just a token.
For that matter I think she is blowing smoke. If she wanted to have hunter representation she would have recruited from some well known hunter advocacy organizations like RMEF or Safari club. She wouldn't be trying to string along some well meaning guys off a talk forum.
She certainly managed to get all the anti hunting groups well represented.
I doubt she cares beyond her paycheck and getting everybody to compromise.
And by the way why is it called compromise when  we give and the anti hunting community take, always! Show me one time we were asked to give something up and in return got something we didn't already have.
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Offline Southpole

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2018, 09:03:36 PM »
Thank you andersonjk4 for reaching out on the behalf of the hunting community. That took time and thought to put an intelligent email together to send to Ms. Madden. Again, thank you. That being said. Ms. Madden has a degree in being a word wizard and people trainer. You can hire a neutral mediator with no interest in the subject matter but the state hired a mediator with a strong lean towards and actively involved in anti hunting/ animal tolerance groups... very biased. That's where the state and Ms. Madden lost me. As I've mentioned in other threads she's a human trainer. The state has a predetermined plan for the wildlife in this state and it's up to Ms. Madden to make it appear as if everyone was heard and all user groups had a say. It's the states way of saying " well, we did what we could sooo  :dunno:" Sorry for being so negative but I think she's just entertaining us.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 09:18:33 PM by Southpole »
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Offline bknilvr00

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2018, 06:50:47 AM »
After reading the email exchange I have to echo what several others have said. Her dialogue reads very much like management in my workplace. They all are capable of talking the skin off a snake if it gets them what they want, but will say whatever you want to hear so you'll go away feeling like you've done something. W

Offline ribka

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2018, 06:59:04 AM »
Thank you andersonjk4 for reaching out on the behalf of the hunting community. That took time and thought to put an intelligent email together to send to Ms. Madden. Again, thank you. That being said. Ms. Madden has a degree in being a word wizard and people trainer. You can hire a neutral mediator with no interest in the subject matter but the state hired a mediator with a strong lean towards and actively involved in anti hunting/ animal tolerance groups... very biased. That's where the state and Ms. Madden lost me. As I've mentioned in other threads she's a human trainer. The state has a predetermined plan for the wildlife in this state and it's up to Ms. Madden to make it appear as if everyone was heard and all user groups had a say. It's the states way of saying " well, we did what we could sooo  :dunno:" Sorry for being so negative but I think she's just entertaining us.

So as a hunter in the state of Washington you want to engage in meaningful dialogue with someone from Houston who states that  her job is to manipulate people. :chuckle:

I knew from her background as a social actiivist  that even before reading her response you were being shined on.

Lots of excuses in her response ( which is a typical behavior for pathological liars) and  for someone who is very highly paid by the tax payers to do her job.
Someone who is paid more than $400 an hour by the tax payers cant even keep an updated business web site and then is not even concerned enough to keep a hunting representative on the board that contains multiple out of state anti hunting representatives and her sole job is to mediate between ALL user groups? How much money do sportsmen bring into the state of Washington economy every year and to the WDFW?  Millions and millions of dollars. How much money do anti hunting groups from out of state bring in? Zero

She knew the hunting rep was retiring ; when someone retires you have a replacement lined up and trained before they leave.

"Acutely aware?"  what a load of BS

and most importantly, we also are very acutely aware that we have not yet replaced our hunter representative after he retired. And your email is exceptionally timely as this exact issue came up at our December board of directors meeting. It is one of the top items on our organizational "to do" list for 2018... 

Good luck with this social activist whose job it is to manipulate people,  but some of the more seasoned guys on here ( see their responses) , including me, have pretty good BS detectors and after reading her responses I think,  or I should say I know, you are being shined on on but good luck with that :tup:

She is laughing all the way to bank

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2018, 07:25:02 AM »
I'm unsure that she's insincere. She may hunt wolves in MT for all we know. My only observation of the email exchange is that forwarding the concerns of sportsmen and women to, and adding stakeholders to the WAG are not within her purview. She gets paid to make sure the meetings don't spiral out of control and that the communications from all WAG members in the meetings are delivered, received, and organized clearly. That's it.

For change to the outrageous wolf plan, there are only two possibilities.  One occurs when the USFWS and the WDFW admit the the approved wolf plan was based on non-scientific myths championed by animal rights organizations and accepted by both agencies, mistruths and misinformation campaigns, and telling the truth to our citizens about the realities of what uncontrolled wolf population growth means to WA in terms of economic loss, disease, increased ungulate predation and stress, and the direct and imminent danger to the citizens of our state. Since that admission will never take place, legislative change is the only other course. And good luck getting that to happen with a totally D-controlled legislature and executive. People will have to start being attacked and killed by wolves for this wake-up to take place. And, it will happen. As the ungulate herds dwindle, wolves will become increasingly habituated to preying on livestock, seeking out garbage, and coming closer to and being more and more comfortable around people. This is a historically documented progression of wolf behavior in every part of the world that has populations of them. Our wildlife officials lied to us and our legislators when they shoved this down our throats, and they continue to do so.
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Offline Gringo31

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2018, 07:38:43 AM »
I'd love to see her reply to this....


Quote
So as a hunter in the state of Washington you want to engage in meaningful dialogue with someone from Houston who states that  her job is to manipulate people. :chuckle:

I knew from her background as a social actiivist  that even before reading her response you were being shined on.

Lots of excuses in her response ( which is a typical behavior for pathological liars) and  for someone who is very highly paid by the tax payers to do her job.
Someone who is paid more than $400 an hour by the tax payers cant even keep an updated business web site and then is not even concerned enough to keep a hunting representative on the board that contains multiple out of state anti hunting representatives and her sole job is to mediate between ALL user groups? How much money do sportsmen bring into the state of Washington economy every year and to the WDFW?  Millions and millions of dollars. How much money do anti hunting groups from out of state bring in? Zero

She knew the hunting rep was retiring ; when someone retires you have a replacement lined up and trained before they leave.

"Acutely aware?"  what a load of BS

and most importantly, we also are very acutely aware that we have not yet replaced our hunter representative after he retired. And your email is exceptionally timely as this exact issue came up at our December board of directors meeting. It is one of the top items on our organizational "to do" list for 2018... 

Good luck with this social activist whose job it is to manipulate people,  but some of the more seasoned guys on here ( see their responses) , including me, have pretty good BS detectors and after reading her responses I think,  or I should say I know, you are being shined on on but good luck with that :tup:

She is laughing all the way to bank


It goes back to what I said earlier.  Does she understand why hunters are upset?  I mean really understand.  Not just what the animal rights folks have told her why we are upset.
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Offline ribka

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2018, 08:10:45 AM »
would you pass this reading material onto Francine

Really well written book that covers the wolf reintroduction in the US. If she was really genuinely interested in doing her job and representing all user groups she would be more than happy and actually grateful to read this

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Wolf-Politics-Economics-Co-Existing/dp/159152122X

thanks

And since you opened a dialogue with her would you please ask her about this statement on her web site

Building trust between conservationists and ranchers to reveal a critical truth about subversive anti-conservation actions, which allowed the conservation organizations and government to avoid wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars and foster conditions that led to the project's success.


Ask her what she means by "subversive anti conservation actions" Is she referring to hunters and some of the members on here that believe apex predators need to be controlled and managed?

Is  the term "subversive" a good label for someone involved, supposedly, in conflict resolution? Seems inflammatory to me but Im just a dumb sportsmen

And Why are there over 20 anti hunting organizations listed on her website and not one sportsmen's group?

is this part of her conflict resolution, fairness, diversity  and meaningful equitable dialogue? :dunno: :dunno:

Ive attended a few wolf meetings in WA and it was obvious they ,WDFW, had no interest in hearing feedback from sportsmen who help fund their agency.


well, at least the anti hunting groups are praising Francine on her web site. Ironic that she is training anti hunting groups how to deal with sportsmen and help them end hunting. Yep she sounds like she can be trusted

from her website:

You don’t realize how much you need this training until you’ve taken it!” – Nancy Gloman, VP Field Operations, Defenders of Wildlife

These social activists like Francine are ego centric and think sportsmen as a group of naive, easily manipulated , unsophisticated , uneducated, country white trash. This is what anti hunting groups like Defenders of Wildlife, HSUS etc are telling her.

Sportsmen through license sales and sales from the Pitmen Robertson act (https://vistaoutdoor.com/2017/06/pittman-robertson-excise-tax/) in the US and sportsmen conservation groups like RMEF, DU, TU, Wild Turkey Federation, Pheasants Forever, Ruffed Grouse Society, NRA etc contribute tens of millions of dollars a year to conservation efforts, wildlife habitat etc in the US and Canada. For Francine not to even profess to know this and her job is resolution between user groups concerning wildlife is inexcusable. Either she is incredibly uniformed, uneducated or a liar. We all know she s the latter.

She thinks you can be placated by a form letter containing a bunch of meaningless, empty platitudes :dunno:

The thing with people Like Francine is that she can be pinned down and reveal her true goals by merely asking specific questions which of course she will deflect using her conflict resolution and human manipulation training and refuse to answer. Look at the spokesman from CNW who used to come on here and try and spread pro wolf propaganda. As soon as someone asked repeatedly if CNW supported all legal forms of sport hunting he disappeared.




This is a long winded post to begin with, but I hope all will take the time to read through it eventually.  Moderators please feel free to relocated as seen fit, but I wanted to get this in front of as many eyes as possible:

After reading a few of the threads on here regarding the WDFW's hiring of the conflict resolution consultant and reading mostly negative comments I decided I would do some research and try to gather more information on the situation.  My thinking was "If this is really as bad as everyone was/is making is seem then we (hunters) need to do something to change this".  I started by going back and reading the paper she published with the WDFW: People and Wolves in Washington: Stakeholder Conflict Assessment and Recommendations for Conflict Transformation
 (https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01719/wdfw01719.pdf)
In this paper I discovered that the author portray's hunter's as an important stakeholder in the wolf recovery debate and gives, in my opinion, a very accurate assessment of the sentiments of hunters towards wolves, wolf recovery and the WDFW handling of wolves in general.  I then went to the Human-Wildlife Conflict Collaboration, the organization she represents, website.  There I found a strong message of coexisting and coming together for the good of wildlife.  What I didn't find was any mention of or indication that the voice of hunters was part of their collaborative.  This is where I decided I needed to take some action and not just get onto the forum and rant and rave.  I decided to reach out to Francine Madden and let her know that I thought were portrayal of hunters in her paper was fair, but in order to bring in the support of the hunting community I urged her to consider adding a legitimate hunting presence to her organization's committees.  I fully expected a canned "thank you for your email and your comments will be considered" type of email in response and for her to not really take it seriously.  Instead I received a very thoughtful and thorough response almost immediately.  I will share my email and her response below.  Out of courtesy, I made sure she was ok with me sharing our conversation and she was more than accepting of me wanting to share it. 

My intent in sharing this and starting this thread is not to push any wolf related agenda or try and convince anyone of any wolf related issues.  (I have not stated mine or any other wolf related opinions in this thread or my conversation with Francine for a reason).  The only agenda I am pushing here is to get the voice of the hunter heard and try and get us a seat at the table.  My intent is to try and show hunters that our voice can be heard if we are willing to put forth the effort.  That being said Francine is looking for continued input from the hunting community and this may end up being a good place for constructive discussion regarding the next phase of the wolf recovery plan development.

My original email:

Hello,

I have been following the work you have been involved in with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife regarding wolf-human conflict resolution.  I read your paper People and Wolves in Washington: Stakeholder Conflict Assessment and Recommendations for Conflict Transformation, and appreciate your consideration of all user groups and how their stake in the issue.  Within this document, I feel you have portrayed a fair assessment of hunters and our sentiment toward wolves and wolf-human conflict.  However, I have seen a high level of distrust and negative sentiment from the hunting community toward you and your organization.  This stems mainly from the affiliations of a majority of the committee members you list on your website.  Many of these affiliations have a reputation for being staunch anti-hunting or at least not pro hunting.  You stress coexistence on your website and I feel from reading your work that you understand the stake hunters have in conflict resolution and in wildlife conservation in general.  I would urge you to consider recruiting some intelligent individuals from the hunting community to join your committees.  This would go A LONG WAYS in giving your organization some credibility within the hunting community.  This, and I think you would find a majority of hunters share the same level of respect and compassion toward wild animals as the other members of your committee. Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

Jake Anderson

Washington Resident and Hunter
   
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:06:42 AM by ribka »

Offline huntnphool

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2018, 08:52:33 AM »
The WAG itself, also has very few or no teeth. They discuss what's going on from their viewpoints and the Wildlife Commission and the Director are the ones who actually make the decisions. Their decisions may or may not be influenced by the WAG. IMHO, this is a very expensive dog and pony show that masks the fact that decisions have been, are being, and will be made with little consideration of her moderations or the joint efforts of the people on the WAG...except for those of the animal rights people, that is. Our government is crystal clear about their goals.

Sorry about being the wet dog stinking up the room, but it became very clear, very early on in the wolf plan process that blowing smoke up everyone's butt was the status quo and remains so today.

 The WAG may have been put together with good intentions, however there are major issues with it as well!

 Well done on the dialogue Anderson, I'll be paying attention to see how this goes too. :tup:
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Offline jackelope

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2018, 09:02:54 AM »
Getting a hunter on the WAG could be good. It wouldn't hurt, certainly.

And incidentally, I think it's great that you wrote her. Thanks for being proactive for our wildlife. That's huge.

I responded to this but maybe you missed it. Are you saying there aren't currently hunters on the WAG?
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2018, 09:04:44 AM »
The WAG is window dressing and does nothing to change/correct the faulted and outrageous wolf plan. None of the powers that be give a crap about what goes on in those meetings. We're spending millions of conservation dollars on it so the animal rights wackos can say everything's done fairly, when everyone involved knows differently. Other than the outrageous wolf plan itself, the WAG and its costs are perhaps the biggest waste of WDFW funds in the department's history.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2018, 09:05:50 AM »
Getting a hunter on the WAG could be good. It wouldn't hurt, certainly.

And incidentally, I think it's great that you wrote her. Thanks for being proactive for our wildlife. That's huge.

I responded to this but maybe you missed it. Are you saying there aren't currently hunters on the WAG?
@pianoman9701

No. More hunters might be better. Although, I don't believe the WAG is good for anything.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2018, 09:12:02 AM »
 Ribka pretty much nailed it IMO. At this point in the game, like all of us, her focus is to pay the bills. She secured her gig and now needs to justify her pay check, which is what she can now prove by providing WDFW Andersons email. :twocents:

 
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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2018, 09:31:25 AM »
The issue is not this facilitator.  It's the WDFW spending this kind of money on such a low priority issue. 

I'd be happy if they hired some part time intern to "manage" wolves and wolf issues in this state.  All the resources going into an animal we will never be able to hunt is just absurd when there are so many more pressing things to be spending time and money on. 

Better yet - let another agency or group deal with wolves...keep WDFW completely out of it.  Let WDFW focus on things they can actually manage - like habitat, regulations, hunting access etc. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline elkchaser54

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2018, 09:45:26 AM »
The hatred and vitriol towards a women none of us have met is the reason our voices don't get any where and we get responses that have no action behind them.  I'd urge you to reach out to hunting organizations and let them know that Washington has a Wolf advisory group that has zero representation by any hunting groups . See if they are willing to reach out, maybe a larger group like RMEF has a bigger pull then an individual reaching out. I'd also like to commend the original poster, I think you did a very good job explaining your position and voicing your opinion in a calm well spoken manner. So thank you for doing so !

Offline andersonjk4

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2018, 09:57:35 AM »
Don't get me wrong, when I emailed her and got several nice responses I had no illusions that I had just made huge headway in getting our hunting voice heard and that everything was going to fall into place for us.  Far from it.  I agree that the responses I got very well could be (very likely are) a bunch of smoke from someone who is paid to deescalate.  My main reason for posting this was to show fellow hunters that a simple action, like sending a simple email, could get a response.  I may be getting a bunch of smoke blown at me, but she has read multiple emails from me now.  Whether she takes any of it to heart or not.  I was still able to get my message in front of her and it was a positive message that represented hunting and hunters in a good light.  She has now seen that at least one hunter isn't a club carrying neanderthal who cares enough about wildlife to take some little action.  She may not have any influence in the current wolf planning process, and it may be way too late for any meaningful change in the wolf plan anyway, but I would bet she has at least a little influence within her community/organization.  And from what is represented on her organizations website that is a community who is at best hunting neutral and many of them are most likely anti-hunting and can't be swayed from that.  But any sort of positive light we can shed on hunting to those who are neutral is a huge win.  We can ill afford to keep loosing those in the middle if we want to keep our hunting privileges in tact (look at what just happened in BC). 

I am not trying to portray myself as a great conservationist or perfect representative for hunting.  In fact, until recently I have done very little besides buying my hunting license/tags to help conservation or hunting.  But recently I have decided it is time to put the rubber to the road and start taking some actual actions.  I was very surprised by the response I got to the email I sent to Ms Madden.  I sent the email with very little expectation that I would even get a response or that she would read it.  Moral of the story is, if we all took a little bit of time to make some small effort toward the betterment of hunting we could potentially get somewhere, but if no actions are taken, that is a sure way to guarantee we will go nowhere.       

Offline Rainier10

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2018, 10:35:37 AM »
The hatred and vitriol towards a women none of us have met is the reason our voices don't get any where and we get responses that have no action behind them.  I'd urge you to reach out to hunting organizations and let them know that Washington has a Wolf advisory group that has zero representation by any hunting groups . See if they are willing to reach out, maybe a larger group like RMEF has a bigger pull then an individual reaching out. I'd also like to commend the original poster, I think you did a very good job explaining your position and voicing your opinion in a calm well spoken manner. So thank you for doing so !
I am pretty sure this has been addressed and is not true.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2018, 10:58:05 AM »
The hatred and vitriol towards a women none of us have met is the reason our voices don't get any where and we get responses that have no action behind them.  I'd urge you to reach out to hunting organizations and let them know that Washington has a Wolf advisory group that has zero representation by any hunting groups . See if they are willing to reach out, maybe a larger group like RMEF has a bigger pull then an individual reaching out. I'd also like to commend the original poster, I think you did a very good job explaining your position and voicing your opinion in a calm well spoken manner. So thank you for doing so !

I don't see anyone spouting hatred and vitriol against her at all. Most of what you're seeing is disgust at the WDFW for spending over $1m on a consultant for a job which won't change the status quo of the wolf situation one bit.  :dunno:
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline ribka

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2018, 10:58:48 AM »
omg i actually agree with everything you said in your post

I have been contacting and bugging RMEF and the mule deer foundation for years to lobby WDFW and try and participate in the WAG and predator issues in this state and in Idaho.

I have also contacted state representatives here in WA  voicing my concern that the user group that contributes the most to wildlife in the state, sportsmen, are shut out of the dialogue.

Give me a break regarding Francine and her ignorance. She is being paid an exorbitant amount of money because she is an "expert" supposedly well -versed in all aspect of wildlife management and conflict resolution and it says so on her web site and linked in profile. As a tax payer I am outraged that this money was wasted by WDFW when it could have been used to benefit wildlife in our state. How about some bitter brush restoration for mule deer after the years of fires? How about an elk fence along I 90 outside Ellensburg to reduce elk collisions?

To profess to know nothing about the contributions of sportsmen when she led this kangaroo panel?

Give me a friggin break

The Pittman Robertson Act ( tax dollars from sportsmen)  has been around over 80 years and has allocated money to wildlife conservation in the 100's of millions of dollars. That is 100 times more than every anti hunting group listed on her website

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act


The issue is not this facilitator.  It's the WDFW spending this kind of money on such a low priority issue. 

I'd be happy if they hired some part time intern to "manage" wolves and wolf issues in this state.  All the resources going into an animal we will never be able to hunt is just absurd when there are so many more pressing things to be spending time and money on. 

Better yet - let another agency or group deal with wolves...keep WDFW completely out of it.  Let WDFW focus on things they can actually manage - like habitat, regulations, hunting access etc.

Offline MR5x5

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2018, 11:21:00 AM »
I've read every response.  All I can is say is, sad.

Regardless of how we got here, we are currently here.  Any change would need to come from the here and now. No change is guaranteed.  Need to get past the Hatfield vs McCoy feelings.

One thing is for damn sure, if you are not at the table, regardless of how stack it might seem, then you have no voice at the table.

You may not like the game, but it is the game in play. Play it or or take up arms against it I guess?

Offline bobcat

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2018, 11:29:17 AM »
All I see that I feel is sad, is the fact that the WDFW threw away 1.6 million dollars. That money's gone. Nothing has changed with the wolves, and nothing will change. They'll continue to increase in number and will continue to eat deer, elk, moose, etc. What is the point of spending 1.6 million dollars on one person to mediate wolf meetings? Like someone else mentioned, just think how much bitterbrush restoration could have been accomplished with all that money, in the areas that have burned up in recent years.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
I've read every response.  All I can is say is, sad.

Regardless of how we got here, we are currently here.  Any change would need to come from the here and now. No change is guaranteed.  Need to get past the Hatfield vs McCoy feelings.

One thing is for damn sure, if you are not at the table, regardless of how stack it might seem, then you have no voice at the table.

You may not like the game, but it is the game in play. Play it or or take up arms against it I guess?

There is no game of which we can be a part. Many of us have been at the table and several times. The minds of the wolf people were made up far in advance of all the hearings and the objections and the fears of those who would be most affected by the plan. Anyone can say "I understand your concerns.", while completely ignoring them and doing what they'd set out to do anyway. That's what has and will continue to happen.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline jackelope

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Re: An Open Dialogue With WDFW Wolf Plan Consultant Francine Madden
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2018, 12:45:21 PM »
The hatred and vitriol towards a women none of us have met is the reason our voices don't get any where and we get responses that have no action behind them.  I'd urge you to reach out to hunting organizations and let them know that Washington has a Wolf advisory group that has zero representation by any hunting groups . See if they are willing to reach out, maybe a larger group like RMEF has a bigger pull then an individual reaching out. I'd also like to commend the original poster, I think you did a very good job explaining your position and voicing your opinion in a calm well spoken manner. So thank you for doing so !

There are multiple current members of the WAG who are active hunters and members of large hunting based org's. That doesn't seem to matter anyway so I'm not sure why I feel the need to correct anyone.

This thread and the comments in it are a perfect example of why hunters and hunting based org's struggle in these scenarios.  Because the hunters' mentality is that it's too late...what's done is done and we can't change anything so why bother.
The groups we all despise are still there, hammering away and they always will be.

:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

 

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