collapse

Author Topic: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails  (Read 5012 times)

Offline idahohuntr

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2357
The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« on: January 10, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »
A very good synopsis of the Bundy fiasco.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/bundy-trial-when-justice-fails

When I was a kid in Idaho, a backwoods poacher named Claude Dallas gunned down two game wardens at his remote campsite in the Owyhees. He was convicted of manslaughter, broke out of jail, and lived a while on the lam.

Dallas became a folk hero to a stubborn but misguided group who seemed to believe in a mythological West where a cowboy hat, an anti-social attitude, and a gun were what made a man. But to anyone with a lick of sense, Dallas was just a thug playing cowboy.

This week, Cliven Bundy, of Nevada, and his sons join the ranks of western pseudo folk heroes. The irony is, Bundy was let out of jail by a judge who followed the letter of the law and the Constitution, ideas that Bundy openly defied.

Bundy owns a ranch near Bunkerville, Nev., and, like thousands of other western cattlemen, grazes his stock on public land – ground owned by the American people. But unlike virtually all those other ranchers, Bundy refused to pay the modest fee charged for grazing. Federal grazing fees are a pittance compared those charged for private land, and honest ranchers accept it as a pretty cheap way to fatten up a steer.

After grazing his cattle on public land for 21 years, Bundy racked up $1 million in outstanding fees. A judge ordered his cows off public ground in 2014. When law enforcement moved to execute the judge’s order, Bundy rallied an armed mob and held the police off at gunpoint. Rather than risk bloodshed, the feds backed off.

Four years later, Bundy sat in jail, awaiting trial for conspiracy. This week, a federal judge in Nevada dismissed the charges against Bundy and his sons. Not because of anything to do with cows and public land. Rather, Bundy went free because the federal prosecutors and the FBI so bungled the case that the judge determined there was no way Bundy could get a fair trial.

The U.S. Constitution, in theory, holds that it is better to set a potentially guilty person free than to risk imprisoning an innocent man because of inept or corrupt abuse of government power. So Bundy walks. As it should be.

Bundy emerged from jail defiant, pledging to keep on his battle against public lands.

“I don’t recognize the federal government to have authority, jurisdiction, no matter who the president is,” he told reporters.

Make no mistake. Bundy is no political prisoner. Bundy thumbed his nose at a federal judge who told him to get his cows off public land. He was charged because of his actions, not his beliefs.

Bundy posed on camera waving an American flag on horseback. But that was empty symbolism. His actions put him above the law, above the Constitution for which the flag stands. Ironically, his rights in the end were protected by that Constitution.

The Bunkerville fiasco sends a message that anyone can get away with breaking the law and not paying taxes, as long as they have a bunch of friends with rifles — and as long as they wear cowboy hats instead of hooded sweatshirts.

Imagine yourself in the position of a young law-enforcement officer working to safeguard our national forests and public lands from illegal abuse. This case must send a chill down your spine. Who, exactly, has your back?

Claude Dallas went back to prison and paid his debt to society. The Bundys’ fate is different.

Americans deserve answers. Both in Nevada and later in Oregon, the Bundys filmed themselves openly defying the law. Yet federal authorities screwed the pooch so badly they could not get a conviction. Americans of all political stripes should call for a bipartisan, open investigation to determine exactly what went wrong. The viability of our public lands and rule of law depend on an open accounting.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline slavenoid

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2017
  • Posts: 45
  • Location: vancouver
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 02:35:46 PM »
I agree good synopsis. And here comes the angry crowd of "true patriots"...

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 9940
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 02:45:11 PM »
I don't think the race baiting is accurate.  If anything, the 'hooded sweatshirts' got some serious passes--even more than the cowboy hats.  Baltimore "gave them space to destroy".  Ferguson overlooked inciting riots, riots and looting.  Law enforcement has to a degree vacated troublesome inner cities.  Look up the Ferguson Effect.  BLM got praises from presidential candidates, the Bundy crowd got undercover feds and all kinds of charges.  Prosecutors were pressured into charging Zimmerman and Wilson because of the DOJ, after investigations found they didn't break any laws.  Police get stand down orders when Antifa arrives.   :dunno:

Offline elkchaser54

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 129
  • Location: Walla Walla
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 03:16:16 PM »
Bundy felt he shouldn't have to pay grazing fees because his family has been using that land for generations was his only reasoning.  There is a million conspiracies surrounding more information then that but when it comes down to it that is the main reason.  Doesn't wanting something for free make him a freeloader????

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 42108
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 08:17:38 AM »
It is coming.

I supported him.   I think in my mind basically because the  government abused their power in this.  The FBI seems to be bungling things left and right and appears to,not be held accountable in itself. 

Online Magnum_Willys

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2544
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »
Taken and changed from the above article to show what I mean...

 You own a house, and, like thousands of other western home owners, you have a well on private property – Water owned by the American people. But unlike virtually all those other homeowners, You refused to meter your well or pay the modest fee charged for your well. Federal water rights fees are a pittance compared those charged for municipalities/cities, and honest people who live in the country accept it as a pretty cheap way to have water.

After using public water for 21 years without a meter, you racked up $1 million in outstanding fees. A judge ordered to turn the power off to your well and irrigation pumps in 2014.

Read what is happening in Yakima County and elsewhere in the state.  It is coming....
Water is liquid gold. 

Offline Bushcraft

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 424
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 09:03:45 AM »
Want to make America a better place to live, raise a family and own a business?

  • Stop the senseless revolving door legal system. Put them away and turn hardened criminals into worm food.
  • Stop allowing progressive liberals and their anti-American legislative agenda into office where they can affect legislation.
  • Stop government waste at the local, state and national levels.

Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17827
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 09:14:51 AM »
If you want to look into our future....

Replace "grazing fees" and "grazing rights" with "water rights".  Imagine you live outside of a city and have a well or "irrigation rights" on your property and then read what you wrote once again.

Anyone who has a well for their home or irrigation "rights" on property you own this will affect you or you family in the future, it is coming.....

Bundy felt he shouldn't have to pay grazing fees because his family has been using that land for generations was his only reasoning.  There is a million conspiracies surrounding more information then that but when it comes down to it that is the main reason.  Doesn't wanting something for free make him a freeloader????
Bingo!

The discussion should revolve around the issue on rights. What is the history of the fees? What are the concepts of precedents, and grand father clauses?

It is very astute of you to compare this to water rights as this is a battle currently being fought in this state.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Offline bearhunter99

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 1854
  • Location: Monitor/Yakima
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 09:46:20 AM »
Taken and changed from the above article to show what I mean...

 You own a house, and, like thousands of other western home owners, you have a well on private property – Water owned by the American people. But unlike virtually all those other homeowners, You refused to meter your well or pay the modest fee charged for your well. Federal water rights fees are a pittance compared those charged for municipalities/cities, and honest people who live in the country accept it as a pretty cheap way to have water.

After using public water for 21 years without a meter, you racked up $1 million in outstanding fees. A judge ordered to turn the power off to your well and irrigation pumps in 2014.

Read what is happening in Yakima County and elsewhere in the state.  It is coming....

There is a big difference between what you are detailing and the Bundy fiasco.  Bundy uses the grazing rights to make money by raising and selling the cattle.  We use the water to be able to live.  Big difference. 
RIP Colockumelk   :salute:

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." – Winston Churchill



Genesis 27:3
Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison

Offline cavemann

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 194
  • Location: Washington
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 09:55:05 AM »
Not all water is for sustainability...  Farmers use the water for livestock, irrigation and many other necessities for running a business (Farm).  It is exactly the same and in some respects even more scary..

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 13899
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 10:06:04 AM »
Not all water is for sustainability...  Farmers use the water for livestock, irrigation and many other necessities for running a business (Farm).  It is exactly the same and in some respects even more scary..

and growing pot, are those people called farmers?  I think it's a travesty to call them farmers, but they're using a bunch of water. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=pot+farm+water+usage&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS406&oq=pot+farm+water+usage&aqs=chrome..69i57.3879j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


California's 50,000 Pot Farms Are Sucking Rivers Dry
Each plant takes five gallons of water a day from legal and illegal water diversions

California lawmakers yesterday called for the regulation of marijuana farms to protect stream flows and help fish species like coho salmon and steelhead, which face possible extinction as the state's drought rages on.

In an informational hearing of the California State Senate Joint Committee of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Chairman Mike McGuire (D) of Healdsburg argued that a contingent of pot farmers in the state have disregarded the environment in favor of personal profit.

"Marijuana is literally sucking rivers dry," McGuire said.

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17827
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 10:11:28 AM »
Bundy was watering cattle and wildlife, so I'm not really sure how unsustainable the practices are since they have been doing it for a LOoong time.

MY point is that the discussion SHOULD have been on property rights. Instead the issues was obfuscated and side lined because it did not push the adjenda.

These issues like Tortoises and "range fees" were tools to keep the discussion away from property rights. It would appear the purpose was so some shyster politicians could sell the land to a Chinese company....

I'm not sure if the Bundies have the Rights they say they do, so that legal discussion should be had.

Regardless of how you feel on the issue now, the outcome was one of 2 choices.
You end of with what some regard as a dead beat ranger on public land, OR that public land could have been sold to some private entities... Bundy being a dead beat or not, you can still hunt, rock hound, and access that land. Could you have  if it was sold off?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 13899
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 10:33:28 AM »
I said this years ago, the Bundy's are not the champions of our rights.  They went about it all wrong, but there was no right way to do it.  Had they did it the right way they'd be off their ranch and none of us would have ever heard them slipping quietly away in the night like the other 72 cattle ranches that shared that grazing area.

They did bring this to the national spotlight, and perhaps history is full of imperfect martyrs, so I'll give them that. They did expose the abuses and incompetency of our government. 

We all know that there used to be many ranchers utilizing that massive public land area for grazing but BLM has systematically driven each and every rancher off that area, and they used things like ESA to do it, and they did it fraudulently.  The BLM was a tool used by politicians to run the cattlemen off the ranches.

Part of me disdains the Bundy's, but part of me thanks them. 


The Bundy's are a product of years of governmental abuse,  generations of government abuse, it's no wonder they hate the BLM and government so.

Offline M_ray

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 3816
  • Location: I'm takin the 5th on this one
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 10:58:39 AM »
 Compareing to water rights is apples to oranges. It would be a fair comparison if the Bundys weren’t paying for the grazing rights and one day they walked in and said now you pay??? The Bundy family paid grazing rights from the 40’s to the 90’s and then stopped paying while thousands of other ranchers still pay. Try not paying your taxes for 20 years and then pull a gun on them when they knock on your door to collect, I don’t think that would work out in your favor.

Yes there may have been mistakes made that resulted in his release. I wouldn’t be ready to award him with an innocent commendation let’s call it what it is, getting off on a technicality. Sorry I can’t support law breakers.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


MB

Growing old is mandatory ... Growing up is optional!

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17827
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 11:15:59 AM »
Many of our political adversaries do not hamstring them selves with the perfect test case. They take to opportunity to move the ball. Some times they only gain a yard or 2 some times they run it all the way to the end zone. You can't win a foot ball game only passing to receivers  that are wide open.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17827
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 11:18:43 AM »
Compareing to water rights is apples to oranges. It would be a fair comparison if the Bundys weren’t paying for the grazing rights and one day they walked in and said now you pay??? The Bundy family paid grazing rights from the 40’s to the 90’s and then stopped paying while thousands of other ranchers still pay. Try not paying your taxes for 20 years and then pull a gun on them when they knock on your door to collect, I don’t think that would work out in your favor.

Yes there may have been mistakes made that resulted in his release. I wouldn’t be ready to award him with an innocent commendation let’s call it what it is, getting off on a technicality. Sorry I can’t support law breakers.
I would happen to guess the reasoning for the fees in the 40s-70s was quite different than the 90s and today.

I would happen to guess there arnt all that many folks on here with extensive property right, and contract law.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Online Boss .300 winmag

  • Best Biggie Blogger
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 9510
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • DAN-O CAN'T TAKE BIGGIE PICS
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 11:31:12 AM »
Has the true reasons ever really been published about why from the BLM on thier quest to kick the Bundy’s off the land? Plus why the Bundy’s quite paying, vs taking on the BLM in court. Wonder if we’ll really ever know. :dunno:
"Just because I like granola, and I have stretched my arms around a few trees, doesn't mean I'm a tree hugger!
Hi I'm 8156, our leader is Bearpaw.


Keep Calm And Duc On!

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 17827
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Wake me when you need me.
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 11:53:30 AM »
Has the true reasons ever really been published about why from the BLM on thier quest to kick the Bundy’s off the land? Plus why the Bundy’s quite paying, vs taking on the BLM in court. Wonder if we’ll really ever know. :dunno:
I have not read a really good synopsis. I don't think we have seen one for a couple of reasons.  The media attention revolved around all the redneck with guns and the BLM armed occupation. This is a much simpler storyline that appeals to both side on the issue. The root cause is more dry and legalize and better suited for court than a good story.  A bunch of the info of the politician arm twisting to make a realistate deal has come out but isn't as interesting at this point.

I would love to see some "neutral" writer put a bunch of these facts together in a book or a youtube series.

Many conservatives and even libertarian leaning ones always hold back and reserve judgement till after the facts come out. In many leadership books I've read they discuss the conundrum  of waiting for all the facts to make a decision. The sweet spot seems to be the 65-80% mark. Start off with 2 little info and your likely to be wrong too often. If you wait till you have 99% of the information your too late to effect meaningful change. Your batting average will be stellar but you won't actually accomplish much.

This difference in thought process is born out in the mind set of 2 group of sucessful workers who are good at what they do but are near polar opposite in thinking.  The salesman and the professional tradesmen. The best salesmen embrace failure as part of the process. It is best exemplified by this mind set. A salesman makes one sale out of ten. When he hits the 8th no he says "Hurray I only need one more NO or failure to make the sale!" By the extreme opposite the professional tradesmen stews over a small % of failure. Most of us fall into to one of these catagories to some degree.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The Truth is like Poetry, and most people hate Poetry

Offline timberfaller

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 1512
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 12:03:58 PM »
All this talk and no one remembers Harry Ried's roll in the Nevada fiasco!!!

No one remembers the Portland trial and ITS findings and dismissal!!

If you've never been involved with "water rights", "grazing rights" and "Lease agreements"(with state or Feds),  you probably don't know much about the "real" issues with the likes of the Bundy's and other cattlemen and farmers.

Short term memory loss,  Bundy's tried to pay his grazing fees, the BLM refused payment(hint see Harry R.)!!

Ask yourself this question, Why would the "government" withhold(hide)evidence????? Numerous times!! :yike:
The only good tree, is a stump!

Online Sandberm

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 814
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 12:06:25 PM »
So...the whole reason Bundy did not pay his grazing fees was because he was having to make the check out to the Federal government rather than the state government? Because he says the constitution forbids federally owned land?

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 13899
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 12:06:47 PM »
All this talk and no one remembers Harry Ried's roll in the Nevada fiasco!!!

No one remembers the Portland trial and ITS findings and dismissal!!

If you've never been involved with "water rights", "grazing rights" and "Lease agreements"(with state or Feds),  you probably don't know much about the "real" issues with the likes of the Bundy's and other cattlemen and farmers.

Short term memory loss,  Bundy's tried to pay his grazing fees, the BLM refused payment(hint see Harry R.)!!

Ask yourself this question, Why would the "government" withhold(hide)evidence????? Numerous times!! :yike:

 :yeah:

Solar farms, China, Harry Reid, Water for a new housing development...


yes I remember it.  I suspect the unwillingness to let THAT all come out is why the Bundy's walked.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4753
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 12:16:58 PM »
Justice didn't fail, unless you consider Justice shorthand for the US Department of Justice.  The DOJ failed.  Personally I think the Bundys are scum and crooks, but when scum and crooks are prosecuted and the prosecution bungles prosecuting the case through incompetence and malfeasance, judges properly dismiss the charges.  That is our Constitution at work.  I wish they had competently and legally prosecuted both the Oregon and Nevada cases, they didn't, and as an American I support the proper actions of the judges in these cases.  I also think it is a shame the crooks got off scot free, but that is solely on the US attorneys who improperly tried the cases. 

I hope BLM proceeds promptly with future trespass livestock grazing cases and they are competently prosecuted.  The Bundys are a cancer on the western livestock industry, and a slap in the face to honest law abiding ranchers who pay their fees to graze our federal lands.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 13899
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 12:41:20 PM »
Justice didn't fail, unless you consider Justice shorthand for the US Department of Justice.  The DOJ failed.  Personally I think the Bundys are scum and crooks, but when scum and crooks are prosecuted and the prosecution bungles prosecuting the case through incompetence and malfeasance, judges properly dismiss the charges.  That is our Constitution at work.  I wish they had competently and legally prosecuted both the Oregon and Nevada cases, they didn't, and as an American I support the proper actions of the judges in these cases.  I also think it is a shame the crooks got off scot free, but that is solely on the US attorneys who improperly tried the cases. 

I hope BLM proceeds promptly with future trespass livestock grazing cases and they are competently prosecuted.  The Bundys are a cancer on the western livestock industry, and a slap in the face to honest law abiding ranchers who pay their fees to graze our federal lands.

I don't disagree with what you've said, but do you not think there were larger issues at play?  Do you think that the BLM was totally legit and above reproach in the actions leading up to the Bundy revolt and non-payment?   

Offline Eric M

  • WA State Trappers Association
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2015
  • Posts: 1179
  • Location: somewhere in time
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 01:06:51 PM »
Has the true reasons ever really been published about why from the BLM on thier quest to kick the Bundy’s off the land? Plus why the Bundy’s quite paying, vs taking on the BLM in court. Wonder if we’ll really ever know. :dunno:
:yeah:
I was just talking to someone about this a week or so ago. They were arguing in favor of the Bundy's and I asked why didn't they try to fight it in court first? Was it just stubbornness or....?

Offline dwils233

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 169
  • Location: Spokane County
Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 01:33:49 PM »
So...the whole reason Bundy did not pay his grazing fees was because he was having to make the check out to the Federal government rather than the state government? Because he says the constitution forbids federally owned land?

This argument by Bundy always makes me wonder if he understands where the land in Nevada came from? The US federal government literally owned the land as a result of the Mexican Cession treaty. If you don't believe that the US government can own land then you probably shouldn't reside or work in anything besides the original colonies. Everything else was purchased or acquired by the Federal government  :dunno:
A promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code

 

* Recent Topics

1992 travel trailer "remodel" by Sandberm
[Today at 07:58:04 AM]


6.5 Grendel to 1050 yards by pianoman9701
[Today at 07:55:21 AM]


2005 cummins, what to look for by baker5150
[Today at 07:44:17 AM]


Knight ultra light by teanawayslayer
[Today at 07:42:09 AM]


Keegan wilder benefit 3d shoot. by D-Rock425
[Today at 07:33:46 AM]


FS misc. reloading bullets and some factory ammo by Bowsnbulls
[Today at 07:29:22 AM]


Dog torn ACL's by Shannon
[Today at 07:23:39 AM]


.50 or .54 for elk by GoexBlackhorn
[Today at 07:02:27 AM]


Browning Cynergy ult turkey 12ga. 3.5″ 26 w/ Vortex viper red dot by Bill W
[Today at 07:02:15 AM]


AK Results are up by Jpmiller
[Today at 06:50:43 AM]


Hunting Douglas GMU 108- Is it a lot of Private Land? by CAMPMEAT
[Today at 06:44:20 AM]


FS: vortex crossfire II price drop by dc
[Today at 06:41:07 AM]


WTS- Huskemaw 5-20 (not blue diamond) by kkamm
[Today at 06:30:05 AM]


Idaho game unit 4 and 4a bear hunt by jjaba
[Today at 06:27:27 AM]


New to WA by pianoman9701
[Today at 06:21:04 AM]


Atlantic Salmon by fish vacuum
[Today at 12:53:50 AM]


Let's see your custom handguns! by PolarBear
[Yesterday at 11:58:50 PM]


Any feed back on leupold vx-3i lrp 8.5-25x50mm? by Magnum_Willys
[Yesterday at 10:36:48 PM]


WTS Carbide dies 9mm 41mag 357mag 454 casull by Reidus
[Yesterday at 10:05:11 PM]


I don’t know why I am surprised by JimmyHoffa
[Yesterday at 09:53:34 PM]