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Sound like the real thing! Extreme Elk Magazine

Author Topic: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting  (Read 3056 times)

Offline CaNINE

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2018, 04:19:37 PM »
I suppose there is a niche market for this service.  Hopefully the profit margins will make it worth your effort.  Does selling information about where to hunt on public land require an outfitters license?  Curious how this form of guiding is regulated.
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.

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Offline idaho guy

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2018, 04:43:16 PM »
Am I missing the price sheets somewhere?  Selling a product needs a price and I cannot find them.

If the price isnít listed. Means we canít afford it.   :chuckle:

All kidding aside. Price probably varies. Depends on what the hunter is seeking. One hunter might only want some maps with camp sights marked. Why other hunters want everything under the sun. Probably why the price isnít listed.  :dunno:

Different pricing for different services and products would be great, fantastic to have options.  List the options with prices however.  Fishy business tactics I smell.
[/quote




That statement is really ignorant howís it fishy?

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2018, 07:39:26 PM »
Wyoming general license bull elk, rifle, any bull will do. Price?
Have you called your district biologist to voice your concerns?
Have you attended a public meeting on season setting?
You are getting exactly what you deserve from WDFW

Offline Indian Summer

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2018, 08:52:59 AM »
seems like an unsustainable business but probably good while it s lasts for you. interesting to see this type of stuff pop up. inevitably you'll run out of info to sell or sell the same info multiple times. but there's enough people out there looking for a free lunch that I bet you pay for your elk hunts for a while anyway.

Give me a minute to catch up to you guys. Iíll back up and address this comment first. Itís a very smart one! First of all After 3 decades of pursuing elk I have a ton of spots. But yes there is a limit to that number. So I need to continue to aquire new ones. I do this two different ways.

One is by having friends who are still guiding full time. They feed me spots. They will call and say ďI got into this new area. Itís loaded with elk but I just canít get the average client thereĒ Theyíll give some details on where they were and what they saw. Then either during the summer or that fall Iíll go out and either camp at the truck, hike in and camp, or ride horses in and basically hunt the area logging everything I see and dropping waypoints on my gps to reference later. I love this method because I already know itís going to be a good spot and a worthwhile investment of my time.

The other method can be a waste of my time. I do the same thing any out of state hunter might do except that Iím probably more familiar with the nearby area, the habits of the elk, and the amount of hunting pressure during open season. I eye up spots from the road while Iím out doing my own hunting. Then during the off season I sit down and start staring at topo maps and Google Earth. I also use Game Planner maps because I can overlap topos with satellite imagery. Then I put together a hunt plan. When I head out in the fallI go hunt the place. I might day hunt it from the truck or depending on the type of plan I might pack a wall tent camp way in and hunt the back country. I might find elk. I might kill a bull. I might strike out! Sometimes areas that look like they have it all just donít hold elk for whatever reason. Iíve been in spots where a drainage has good hunting. Another one has great hunting. But the one between those two barely has an elk track in it. In that case I say to myself this is what makes my service worth the money. I help people avoid the realization that the spot they checked out and dreamed about all summer turned out to be worthless. Then I pack up my gear and either go check out another new area.... or I go to the place where Iíve killed bulls before and do my real hunting. I call that method ďprospectingĒ Itís like a gold miner sampling likely looking spots hoping to find some color!

As far as reselling plans hereís how that works: I never sell the same plan to more than one party in the same year. Once a client purchases a plan it is his exclusively for at least 3 years. After three years he should know the lay of the land well enough to have an advantage over any newcomers. All a client has to do is tell me that he is going back each year and I will not resell the plan. You have to realize that not everyone ends up being an elk hunter for life. There are guys who hunt elk one time and scratch it off their list. Next year they are hunting deer in Illinois or doing a hunt in Africa or chasing caribou somewhere. Some just find out that they canít handle elk hunting physically or they donít find it to be as fun as seeing 30 deer a day like they do back home. So that plan is back up for grabs. If down the road a group of BOW ONLY HUNTERS calls me and I think a particular plan that was sold three years ago to a party of GUN ONLY HUNTERS I may consider selling them the same plan. But Iíll take the time to contact the bow guys and see if they are still hunting the area first. Some people continue to hunt their spot but donít let me know that which is why I check first. If they are still hunting the area lots of times they tell me that theyíve expanded well beyond the plan over the adjacent ridges or even coming from a different direction or something so someone who starts at at square one with the original plan would have no effect on them. Very rarely though do I even consider reselling a plan. I donít have to so far.

Great question and I hope that answers it for you!
Pass It On!

Offline Indian Summer

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2018, 09:06:31 AM »
I suppose there is a niche market for this service.  Hopefully the profit margins will make it worth your effort.  Does selling information about where to hunt on public land require an outfitters license?  Curious how this form of guiding is regulated.

The short answer is no. It is not a form of guiding. First of all in states where guide and outfitter licenses are required a guide cannot freelance. He has to be working for a licensed outfitter. A license is required to provide services for any type of compensation, not just money, on public land. That means directly enabling a hunter by providing a camp, packing them in, packing game out, or obviously accompanying them afield for any reason.

A company who leases horses cannot drop them off at a trailhead or a campsite on National Forest unless they are licensed and have a US Forest Service user permit. A company can rent gear which is common in Alaska where shipping your own up there can be expensive, but they cannot set a camp up for you unless they are licensed. Iíve had clients ask me if I can set a camp for them or show them around for a day and the answer is no. That would be considered guiding or providing a service on public land which requires a license, a user permit, and insurance.
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Offline gasman

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2018, 09:56:57 AM »
I really like this type service, I know Dale also sells maps to hunt, and have never heard a bad thing about it.

I have and do entertain this type of service. Having better success in going to new area or state appeals to me (depending on cist).
A few buddy and I are planning a MT deer hunt this year and doing our home work now and having this as an option is appealing, but it would depend on cost. I understand that the cost verses knowledge can be priceless......

I would like to know a price for services offered, PM me if would  :hello:
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Offline Indian Summer

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2018, 10:00:01 AM »
Am I missing the price sheets somewhere?  Selling a product needs a price and I cannot find them.

Elkcollector is correct.... the price varies which is why there are no rates on the website. I include the same thing with all plans. A set of topos for each member of your party. They are hand marked with everything you need. The campsite. Perhaps a location for a spike site. Which trails you use to cover some ground to where youíll hunt. My own personal off trail hunting routes. Wallows if they are around. Places Iíve seen elk bed or feed. Vantage points to glass from. Places you can get a cell signal from if the area is hard to find one in. Anything else worth passing on to help you with your hunt. Also a set of written instructions. Directions to the parking/camp site. A step by step outline on how to effectively hunt the area. A plan B for the days you need to shift gears and give your body a break. I do that because nobody can hunt hard all day every day for 10 or more days. So you need a gameplan to keep hunting instead of just skipping a day. Also other information such as where to get groceries, dry ice, meat processing, horse leasing, taxidermy etc etc. Last but not least unlimited consulting. You can call text or email as much as you want once you receive your plan with any questions you might have. I love talking elk and do whatever it takes to help my clients use their plan to the fullest and kill elk. Their success rate tells me Iíve done a good job too. Iíve been very pleased and even surprised at how well they have done!

My goal is quality and NOT quantity. I donít care if I only sell 2 or 4 plans a year. I donít want or need to sell 10 of them every year. When I first started I was overwhelmed with interest. So I set the cost accordingly. If someone agrees that what I have to offer is a good investment they buy a plan. If they donít then they donít and thatís fine with me. I think the service is priceless because I started off no different than anyone else and I wish I could have had a place to stick with and call home from day one. I hate unpunched elk tags!!!

Not only is an outfitted hunt expensive but you have to pay every year AND you pay per person. A quality drop camp can run $2000. Thatís 4 to 8 grand for 2 or 4 hunters per year. A guided elk hunt can run $3500 to $6000 per man for 2 on 1 or 1 on 1 hunts. My packages range from $2500 to $4000. Thatís a one time fee per party meaning you spit the cost with your partners. So itís about the same as the cost for one guy to go on an outfitted hunt one time. I look at it as an investment not a cost because you can use it as much as you want for as long as you want. You could go bow hunt and gun hunt with friends every year if you want to.

The price doesnít vary according to the quality of the hunt or the size potential of bulls. It varies according to ease of hunt or logistics. In other words if a plan requires hunters to back pack a camp in or lease horses it is cheaper. Those hunts require more time, some special gear, way more physical effort, and usually more money for the hunters to do. That type of hunt isnít doable for everyone. Even if it is itís just not what everyone wants.  A hunt where you can camp at your truck and get into elk within a reasonable distance requires less time and effort and the plan is more expensive. Anyone in half decent shape can handle them and the plans require more time to put together to do it right. Those ones also need to be hunted or scouted during open season so I know what the pressure is like and how to avoid other hunters.

I have no problem telling you my rates. Nothing fishy here. Iím confident my clients get what they pay for. And like any good outfitter Iím more than glad.... actually very eager to give you a list of references to talk to so you donít have to take my word about my services. Iíll tell you that Iíve had guys buy a Wyoming plan and the next year call and say we want to go to Montana. We have no questions at all, you know what we want and what we are capable of. Tell us the price and the check is in the mail tomorrow. Likewise Iíve had clients hunt Montana and say the same thing about giving Wyoming a try. I think that speaks volumes about how satisfied my hunters are.

I think that covers all of the questions and comments to this point. I hope you like what you hear. As you can see I donít mind taking the time to answer questions and explain things in detail. Iím a detail oriented guy! Iím also an elk hunting fanatic. Thatís a good combination for someone who expects to help others find and kill elk right!

Next question?  :)
Pass It On!

Offline dscubame

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2018, 10:32:16 AM »
Great and thank you.
It's a TIKKA thing..., you may not understand.

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Offline White Pass Outfitters

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2018, 12:31:08 PM »
It all sounds good, I only one concern with the idea.
I know there are migration routes and other areas the hold Bulls consistently. But there is always other factors that can total blow the Elk out off the area. Fire, Snow, not enough or to much, longer hotter summer than normal burns up all the feed and lets not forget about if predators move in. And how many numbers to a spot, because you and I know you tell one guy he will tell another and so fourth, kinda how Eastman hurt a lot of Eastern Montana Deer spots with all there info and just sent crowds of hunters there. But I guess everyone wants to get in on the social media money. And I wonder how your old permitted outfitter buddy's really feel about you putting more numbers of hunters in there area. lol   I do wish you the best in your new business and I am real curious on how it all will play out.
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Offline Indian Summer

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2018, 01:49:44 PM »
White Pass.... arenít those things that everyone has to consider? As a client of an outfitter you can be up against the same things. As an outfitter you may find yourself up against the very same things. Likewise if you go to a new place with no real plan or even to a spot youíve been hunting for years.

I can tell you that last year I had some clients who bought a Montana plan and it turned out there was an active fire come hunting season. They now make great references because I dropped everything to put together an alternate plan for them FOR FREE. Another time I had a client who carried out his plan in Wyoming and even killed a bull but told me he really pushed himself to the limits to get it done. He said he was thinking about the future and really wanted a plan that was less physically demanding. So for a modest fee of $500 I gave him a new one. He was so happy that he turned around and bought a Montana plan and this past season him and his partner went 2 for 2 on nice bulls. There will always be unexpected obstacles in life but as I said I do whatever it takes to give my clients the best chance to achieve their goal.

I never overlap the outfitters I know. If you check out my website youíll see I book clients for them. I hunt the areas outside the perimeter of where they can get clients from their camps. Places a guide would glass from the limits of where he can drag a flat lander but doesnít even think about going to try to kill elk. Itís a great source of information for sure and Iím personal friends with those outfitters. On occasion I will still guide for them if they get in a pinch.
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Offline White Pass Outfitters

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2018, 03:08:57 PM »
Ok glad to here it ! I think you have all the hick ups figured out ! That was the only concern I would have had. Best of luck to you !!!
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Offline ian_padron

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2018, 01:06:29 PM »
Man it is just sad to see what hunting is coming to. Everyone is just out to make a quick buck.

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Offline Special T

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2018, 01:34:27 PM »
Man it is just sad to see what hunting is coming to. Everyone is just out to make a quick buck.

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What you should consider is that there is a thirst for knowledge. Most of us hunters are fairly tight lipped about our spots.

I talked to a retired HE instructor that discussed starting an educational business for Hunting 101 of specific species. There arnt as many mentors out there as thier used to be. Knowledge can be paid for in Time, or cash. Sadly most of us have more $ than time. It is why I mostly bow hunt deer close to home.

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Offline Special T

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2018, 01:38:12 PM »
@Indian Summer

Perhaps you haven't been doing this long enough to know but...

I'm curious if your plans seem to stay more closely held  because people have a financial incentive to keep quiet. Vs the usual, I don't live or hunt there anymore so I'll give you some free info.

Interesting business idea, and pretty cool plan as to foster repeat business and expand while not burning any bridges with the sources of info.

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Offline Netminder01

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2018, 02:18:34 PM »
Smart evolution of outfitting and guiding and certainly where I see the trend going as more people want and would benefit from help, leading to increased hunter success and more people hunting.

Good luck, I'll be paying attention and welcome to the forum!!

Offline jackelope

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2018, 04:55:08 PM »
Man it is just sad to see what hunting is coming to. Everyone is just out to make a quick buck.

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@ian_padron   This is nothing new.

The guy that owns this forum sells trophy maps. Mostly the same thing.
Robby Denning, one of the owners of Rokslide has a business doing this, scouting for people for money.
Eastman's MRS
GoHunt
I'm sure there are more.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:01:13 PM by jackelope »
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline elkinrutdrivemenuts

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2018, 05:12:47 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up? 

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2018, 05:20:01 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up?

What where did this come from? :dunno:
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Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2018, 05:23:07 PM »
Man it is just sad to see what hunting is coming to. Everyone is just out to make a quick buck.

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@ian_padron   This is nothing new.

The guy that owns this forum sells trophy maps. Mostly the same thing.
Robby Denning, one of the owners of Rokslide has a business doing this, scouting for people for money.
Eastman's MRS
GoHunt
I'm sure there are more.

Personally I would love it if someday it was illegal to get paid for any hunting services whatsoever conducted on public lands, and leave the guiding/info selling/big money stuff on privately owned land. BUT that is just my personal wish, I know many will disagree 

Offline dscubame

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 05:35:54 PM »
I am old school and truly do have maps with handwritten notes with directions, past experiences, location legend, and so forth.  I won't ever sell them but sure could. 

Each his own, heck I would even purchase hunt info that contains extreme back country hunt info.  6 - 10 miles into unfamiliar area such information could be well worth it.  Partner and I have been kicking this around for a couple years now.
It's a TIKKA thing..., you may not understand.

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Offline Special T

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2018, 06:01:01 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up?

What where did this come from? :dunno:
That is his guarantee that he won't sell the info more than 2x in a 3 year window.

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 06:27:28 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up?

What where did this come from? :dunno:
That is his guarantee that he won't sell the info more than 2x in a 3 year window.

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A fool and his hunting areas are soon exposed once sold forever.  ;)
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Offline Netminder01

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 07:30:07 PM »
Man it is just sad to see what hunting is coming to. Everyone is just out to make a quick buck.

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@ian_padron   This is nothing new.

The guy that owns this forum sells trophy maps. Mostly the same thing.
Robby Denning, one of the owners of Rokslide has a business doing this, scouting for people for money.
Eastman's MRS
GoHunt
I'm sure there are more.

Personally I would love it if someday it was illegal to get paid for any hunting services whatsoever conducted on public lands, and leave the guiding/info selling/big money stuff on privately owned land. BUT that is just my personal wish, I know many will disagree

Do you mean the services and companies that support hunting like clothing or archery equipment or selling maps and coordinates?

Offline elkinrutdrivemenuts

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2018, 07:32:45 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up?

What where did this come from? :dunno:

He said it's their area to hunt for 3 years on page 1.  He won't sell it to anyone else.  What stops them from coming back in year 4? 

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Re: New Sponsor, Elk Hunt Consulting
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2018, 07:35:46 PM »
What stops a guy from coming back to the area after the 3 years are up?

What where did this come from? :dunno:

He said it's their area to hunt for 3 years on page 1.  He won't sell it to anyone else.  What stops them from coming back in year 4?
He already acknowledged nothing.

Once a client purchases a plan it is his exclusively for at least 3 years. After three years he should know the lay of the land well enough to have an advantage over any newcomers.
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