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Author Topic: Marine mammals now taking more salmon than sport and commercial fishing combined  (Read 1701 times)

Offline James

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While I can't rule it out, I think it's unlikely.

The southern resident killer whales are a small percentage of the whale population (I think around 70-80 individuals), and are the least healthy (only Orcas with ESA protection).

Most killer whales hammer pinipeds, and are doing a much better than their salmon eating brothers.

If the southern residents would start eating seals, I think you would see them rebound.
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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You do understand the difference between NOW doing something an MAY BE doing something.

There is absolutely nothing definitive about that. Period.

As I said earlier, the numbers are all over the place - and a range from between 5 million and 31.5 million fish makes the study look to be more speculation than scientific in nature.

Reading comprehension..... I thought they taught that in school.

That is not a range, it is the estimated increase between 1975 and 2015, a period of 30 years.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Online magnanimous_j

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe they feel sick after eating seals.

Offline lokidog

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While I can't rule it out, I think it's unlikely.

The southern resident killer whales are a small percentage of the whale population (I think around 70-80 individuals), and are the least healthy (only Orcas with ESA protection).

Most killer whales hammer pinipeds, and are doing a much better than their salmon eating brothers.

If the southern residents would start eating seals, I think you would see them rebound.

Or even eat pink salmon.  It has been shown that they pretty much eat just Chinook.  Drives me nuts though when you see the headlines Orcas Going Extinct Due to Lack of Salmon or some such nonsense....

Offline Gobble Doc

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Squawfish.

Offline Jake Dogfish

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The title of this thread states the mammals are now taking more salmon than fishermen.

The text of the study states they MAY be taking more.

The numbers are all over the place in this study - and it merely suggests the possibility.

I'm guessing the article says "may" because it's an estimate based on computer models. Sea mammals obviously don't report their take like humans.

But other than being an estimate, this sounds pretty definitive. I'm sure they will do more research and decide if their computer models are realistic.

"The researchers estimate that from 1975 to 2015, the yearly biomass of Chinook salmon consumed by sea lions, seals, and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tons, and from five to 31.5 million individual salmon."

"Over the same time span, they found that the annual Chinook harvest by fishermen decreased from 16,400 to 9,600 metric tons, and from 3.6 million to 2.1 million individual fish. "

You do understand the difference between NOW doing something an MAY BE doing something.

There is absolutely nothing definitive about that. Period.

As I said earlier, the numbers are all over the place - and a range from between 5 million and 31.5 million fish makes the study look to be more speculation than scientific in nature.

Don't get me wrong - I applaud your efforts to enlighten those here on any developments, new, old or otherwise, and suspect your efforts are pure of heart.

What you might consider in the future though, is not editorializing these things - if your intention is to simply report them.

Let the data speak for itself, and let everyone come to their own conclusion - which may differ by the way - from yours, or someone else'.  Herd mentality is best served on four hooves.

Pinnipeds ate 5 million, now they eat 31.5 million. At the same time human Salmon harvest has gone down.
What is not definitive about that?
How far are they off? Did they get the numbers backwards?

Offline Jake Dogfish

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe they feel sick after eating seals.
Thatís a very interesting theory guys.  I had not thought of that.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe they feel sick after eating seals.
Thatís a very interesting theory guys.  I had not thought of that.

Could just be the way they were raised, their culture so to speak.  Just like different human cultures eat different foods and get adapted to them.  How many here would eat the bugs and worms eaten by some cultures? They might be good for you, but they'd be pretty hard to stomach.  And some of the things we eat are gross to others. Not to mention the way they are prepared.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline KFhunter

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Sounds like the feds are giving the green light, or at least getting out of the way

Offline Idighuntin

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You do understand the difference between NOW doing something an MAY BE doing something.

There is absolutely nothing definitive about that. Period.

As I said earlier, the numbers are all over the place - and a range from between 5 million and 31.5 million fish makes the study look to be more speculation than scientific in nature.

Reading comprehension..... I thought they taught that in school.

That is not a range, it is the estimated increase between 1975 and 2015, a period of 30 years.

Good thing you paid attention in English because your math is lacking. 1975 to 2015 would be 40 years.

Offline Special T

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe they feel sick after eating seals.
Thatís a very interesting theory guys.  I had not thought of that.

Could just be the way they were raised, their culture so to speak.  Just like different human cultures eat different foods and get adapted to them.  How many here would eat the bugs and worms eaten by some cultures? They might be good for you, but they'd be pretty hard to stomach.  And some of the things we eat are gross to others. Not to mention the way they are prepared.
I've eaten locusts & scorpian. Monkey brains, cow brains, dog, seacucumber.... well mostly I could chew it up but it wouldn't make it past my Adams apple...

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Online magnanimous_j

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe they feel sick after eating seals.
Thatís a very interesting theory guys.  I had not thought of that.

Could just be the way they were raised, their culture so to speak.  Just like different human cultures eat different foods and get adapted to them.  How many here would eat the bugs and worms eaten by some cultures? They might be good for you, but they'd be pretty hard to stomach.  And some of the things we eat are gross to others. Not to mention the way they are prepared.
I've eaten locusts & scorpian. Monkey brains, cow brains, dog, seacucumber.... well mostly I could chew it up but it wouldn't make it past my Adams apple...

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Sea cucumber is the single most disgusting thing I've ever eaten. If I wasn't in a banquet room with 200 other people, I would have spit it out.

Locust fried with a little salt and lime is pretty good, actually. 

Offline Special T

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The way I had sea cucumber  didn't taste bad. There was just a taste texture disconnect.  Imagine a jellow shot that was leftnin the fridge forn a week or 2. Some where between yellow and a rubber band with bumps on it. It tasted something like a greasy piece  of gristle. (One of my favorites).  A good hard chew could not cut  said sea cucumber into smaller pieces. This wasn't at some discount shack it was a high end restaurant in China.

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Offline timberfaller

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"The study used models to estimate marine mammal consumption of Chinook salmon based on several assumptions about their diet and the size and weight of salmon. The researchers estimate that from 1975 to 2015, the yearly biomass of Chinook salmon consumed by sea lions, seals, and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tons, and from five to 31.5 million individual salmon."

NOW HOLD on just one minute, back in late 90's early 2000, the Salmon was put on the ESL because of the evil loggers and uncontrolled irrigate-rs stealing water from them and causing in-stream silting of spawning beds!!! :bash: :bash:

During the ensuing water wars, the irrigation districts told "the powers that be" THEY were NOT considering the toll taken on Salmon fry by numerous predator's,  THEY didn't care and as far as they were concerned MORE predators were OK with them!!!  It was the "egregious people of the Methow"(farmers/ranchers) and all the logging activity taken place(hardly any) was killing the runs! :bash:
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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You do understand the difference between NOW doing something an MAY BE doing something.

There is absolutely nothing definitive about that. Period.

As I said earlier, the numbers are all over the place - and a range from between 5 million and 31.5 million fish makes the study look to be more speculation than scientific in nature.

yup a typo

Reading comprehension..... I thought they taught that in school.

That is not a range, it is the estimated increase between 1975 and 2015, a period of 30 years.

Good thing you paid attention in English because your math is lacking. 1975 to 2015 would be 40 years.


yup a typo
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 12:13:42 AM by Sitka_Blacktail »
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Online magnanimous_j

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"The study used models to estimate marine mammal consumption of Chinook salmon based on several assumptions about their diet and the size and weight of salmon. The researchers estimate that from 1975 to 2015, the yearly biomass of Chinook salmon consumed by sea lions, seals, and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tons, and from five to 31.5 million individual salmon."

NOW HOLD on just one minute, back in late 90's early 2000, the Salmon was put on the ESL because of the evil loggers and uncontrolled irrigate-rs stealing water from them and causing in-stream silting of spawning beds!!! :bash: :bash:

Two things can be true at the same time.

Online Southpole

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"The study used models to estimate marine mammal consumption of Chinook salmon based on several assumptions about their diet and the size and weight of salmon. The researchers estimate that from 1975 to 2015, the yearly biomass of Chinook salmon consumed by sea lions, seals, and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tons, and from five to 31.5 million individual salmon."

NOW HOLD on just one minute, back in late 90's early 2000, the Salmon was put on the ESL because of the evil loggers and uncontrolled irrigate-rs stealing water from them and causing in-stream silting of spawning beds!!! :bash: :bash:
Don't forget the evil rural peoples' well water draining the rivers, depriving the salmon of a good swim  :hello:
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Online Southpole

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"
Funny you mention this. I saw a show on the animal planet a few nights ago. It was centered around a female orca killing a shark off some islands off the coast of San Francisco. The orca bio explained the different regional pods and what they eat. Canadian, Washington and I can't remember but I think Alaska pods (I could be wrong on that) eat salmon only and other pods around the globe will eat seals amongst other critters. Like Sitka said it's a cultural thing, they haven't seen their peers eating seals yet so they don't, yet...
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline lokidog

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The way I had sea cucumber  didn't taste bad. There was just a taste texture disconnect.  Imagine a jellow shot that was leftnin the fridge forn a week or 2. Some where between yellow and a rubber band with bumps on it. It tasted something like a greasy piece  of gristle. (One of my favorites).  A good hard chew could not cut  said sea cucumber into smaller pieces. This wasn't at some discount shack it was a high end restaurant in China.

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I've stripped the five longitudinal muscles out of them then breaded and fried, it is tender and delicious, but way too much work for the little return to do on a regular basis.  You guys probably had whole dried ones reconstituted or something nasty like that.   :chuckle:

Offline Special T

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You think the whales actively or instinctively know this?  "Whale so and so ate a diet of seals all his life and died at 30, all the whales that eat salmon live to be 70.  I'll eat salmon only!"
Funny you mention this. I saw a show on the animal planet a few nights ago. It was centered around a female orca killing a shark off some islands off the coast of San Francisco. The orca bio explained the different regional pods and what they eat. Canadian, Washington and I can't remember but I think Alaska pods (I could be wrong on that) eat salmon only and other pods around the globe will eat seals amongst other critters. Like Sitka said it's a cultural thing, they haven't seen their peers eating seals yet so they don't, yet...
I saw the same one with my girls.

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Offline Special T

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The way I had sea cucumber  didn't taste bad. There was just a taste texture disconnect.  Imagine a jellow shot that was leftnin the fridge forn a week or 2. Some where between yellow and a rubber band with bumps on it. It tasted something like a greasy piece  of gristle. (One of my favorites).  A good hard chew could not cut  said sea cucumber into smaller pieces. This wasn't at some discount shack it was a high end restaurant in China.

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I've stripped the five longitudinal muscles out of them then breaded and fried, it is tender and delicious, but way too much work for the little return to do on a regular basis.  You guys probably had whole dried ones reconstituted or something nasty like that.   :chuckle:
Don't know, didn't ask but sounds about right!

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Offline Special T

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"The study used models to estimate marine mammal consumption of Chinook salmon based on several assumptions about their diet and the size and weight of salmon. The researchers estimate that from 1975 to 2015, the yearly biomass of Chinook salmon consumed by sea lions, seals, and killer whales increased from 6,100 to 15,200 metric tons, and from five to 31.5 million individual salmon."

NOW HOLD on just one minute, back in late 90's early 2000, the Salmon was put on the ESL because of the evil loggers and uncontrolled irrigate-rs stealing water from them and causing in-stream silting of spawning beds!!! :bash: :bash:

Two things can be true at the same time.
This is true how ever one is easily estimated where another is more difficult. This estimation does not include the huge increase in other forms of depredations. Cornmerants are protected, and obviously need none. Not to mention the increase of walleye, Pikeminnow, and Mergansers.

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Offline The Real Sisu

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Heard this on the radio this morning from the Kodiak fishing news.
https://www.ktoo.org/2011/12/06/report-says-sea-otters-hitting-dive-fisheries-hard/


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