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Author Topic: New and confused (Knight questions)  (Read 503 times)

Offline Fish Carver

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New and confused (Knight questions)
« on: February 09, 2018, 05:00:19 PM »
Hi all,

I am new to muzzleloading, actually I don't even have one yet.  I have wanted to muzzleload hunt for several years, after borrowing one years ago and taking a deer.  Unfortunately some family financial challenges kept me from being able to buy the equipment.

 I now have saved enough to get a Disc Extreme.  I have decided I want the disc extreme or mountaineer (if I can set aside a little more).  I would prefer one of the bolt actions over a plunger style. I know Washington is considering allowing 209 primers for ignition.  If this happens, I would prefer to be able to use the 209's and Blackhorn 209 powder.  I have a friend who has used it and loves it, and I like the idea of not having to clean the barrel quite as often when shooting.  I am an accuracy freak, and know I will need to spend time at the range working up a good load, but my free time is extremely limited as I am working extra to catch back up.  I only state this so you know why I am set on certain things.

My confusion is as follows:
1.  the disc extreme only comes in western or full plastic jacket.  From what I have read on several forums, the full plastic jacket appears not to consistently ignite the powder charge using BH 209, and the bare primer setup is recommended.  I am curious why the plastic jacket setup doesn't work as well as the bare primer.

I know you can buy a conversion kit for the disc extreme to shoot bare primers, but the one review didn't think highly of it.  I know one persons review is limited to make any decision on, so I wondered what any of you might know on this issue.

2.  the mountaineer is available in all ignition types, but is $160 more.  I don't know if I can swing that.

Is it worth buying the western disc extreme and then the bare 209 primer conversion kit?  I almost have that amount saved.

3.  Is the mountaineer worth the additional cost, and if so, why?

I would also like to put on the peep sight setup  many of you talk about.

I am hoping my Sportsman's warehouse gift card and Cabela's points will get most of the supplies I need - lol.

Could anyone give me a list of the essentials?  I think I have a good idea after the reading I have done, but would like to make sure.

I apologize for being long winded, I just am excited I might finally get to pull the trigger on this (pun intended).

I probably will have more questions, but will stop for now.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Offline SeaRun1

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2018, 06:20:17 PM »
I bought the Western Disc Extreme and I love that gun.  Just shooting it with #11 caps and 777 fg has been a blast. 

I hope Sabotloader comes on to offer up his knowledge on the 209 conversion as I am interested too.

SR1

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 08:09:40 AM »
Hi all,

I am new to muzzleloading, actually I don't even have one yet.  I have wanted to muzzleload hunt for several years, after borrowing one years ago and taking a deer.  Unfortunately some family financial challenges kept me from being able to buy the equipment.

 I now have saved enough to get a Disc Extreme.  I have decided I want the disc extreme or mountaineer (if I can set aside a little more).  I would prefer one of the bolt actions over a plunger style. I know Washington is considering allowing 209 primers for ignition.  If this happens, I would prefer to be able to use the 209's and Blackhorn 209 powder.  I have a friend who has used it and loves it, and I like the idea of not having to clean the barrel quite as often when shooting.  I am an accuracy freak, and know I will need to spend time at the range working up a good load, but my free time is extremely limited as I am working extra to catch back up.  I only state this so you know why I am set on certain things.

My confusion is as follows:
1.  the disc extreme only comes in western or full plastic jacket.  From what I have read on several forums, the full plastic jacket appears not to consistently ignite the powder charge using BH 209, and the bare primer setup is recommended.  I am curious why the plastic jacket setup doesn't work as well as the bare primer.

Any of the Knight bolt guns can use all 3 ignition systems - caps - FPJ (full plastic jackets) or NFPJ (bare Primer).  Each of the ignition systems will require a different bolt housing and breech plug.

BH-209 is really a smokeless based powder (Potassium and Sulphur to qualify it as a BP sub) added and requires the rifle to maintain constant pressure in the breech for ignition.  At times a FPJ can stretch enough as the pressure builds to allow gas to escape the breech - allowing ignition to stop.  It does not happen a lot but can especially if you re-use the jackets.

Quote
I know you can buy a conversion kit for the disc extreme to shoot bare primers, but the one review didn't think highly of it.  I know one persons review is limited to make any decision on, so I wondered what any of you might know on this issue.

Personally I think the NFPJ - bare primer - is the only way to go if you are going to shoot 209's.  The system is nearly fool proof and can be made clean - so there is no blow back in the breech.  I am in Idaho and I do hunt the regular rifle season with a ML - my Knights for that season all have the Bare primer system installed.

Quote
2.  the mountaineer is available in all ignition types, but is $160 more.  I don't know if I can swing that.

Is it worth buying the western disc extreme and then the bare 209 primer conversion kit?  I almost have that amount saved.

3.  Is the mountaineer worth the additional cost, and if so, why?

I do not know what all or how you might use your rifle... but if Washington approves the use of the 209's - then today you would order a 'Colorado' legal rifle.  That will have 209 ignition and open sights.  If Washington approves I am sure Knight will label the rifle Colorado/Washington approved.


Quote
I would also like to put on the peep sight setup  many of you talk about.

I am hoping my Sportsman's warehouse gift card and Cabela's points will get most of the supplies I need - lol.

Could anyone give me a list of the essentials?  I think I have a good idea after the reading I have done, but would like to make sure.

This is a DISC Extreme that I have set up to be Western legal... with a Williams FP peep sight and Williams front sight parts...





In this case the rifle has the Western ignition installed - but to make it Colorado or impending Washing legal it would be a matter of changing bolt housings and breech plug.

The bolt and breech area would look something like this...  Not the best picture but I thing you can see how it works.



Quote
I apologize for being long winded, I just am excited I might finally get to pull the trigger on this (pun intended).

I probably will have more questions, but will stop for now.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

You might also check out https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/inline-muzzleloaders.html?shopbybrand_brand=4 - they seem to have really good prices on what you might be looking for....

Also -ifn you have more questions and 'you will' ask away....

mike
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 09:03:56 AM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Fish Carver

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 09:05:38 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

Sabotloader, do you think the Mountaineer is worth the difference in price?  It would stretch my budget, but I will probably only be able to get one muzzleloader for a very long time.  I hunt SE Washington around and in the Blue Mountains.  Deer in farm country or the foothills primarily, and elk in the mountains.  I hike a lot, glass and stalk mostly.  I hope to start hunting in Idaho in a year, but may start with a modern rifle until I get to know some areas.

Also, so from what I read in your reply, the bare 209 conversion kit has worked fine for the disc extreme?  I can only find western and full plastic jacket extremes, so would have to buy the conversion kit from Knight.

Is there a good list of muzzleloader necessities somewhere?  I think I have good idea what to get, but don't want to forget anything.

Thanks again.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 11:27:35 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

Sabotloader, do you think the Mountaineer is worth the difference in price?

The Mountaineer is a really - really good rifle.  but I really do not like the stock that comes with them. for me they are some what bulky and not fit my hunting style.

I have a Mountaineer....



But shortly after getting it I switch stocks to just a regular DISC Extreme stock.  The best stock is the one that comes with the Ultra-Lite.  It is a Kevlar stock and really light - but Knight does not sell them as a re-sale item.



Shooting wise - not sure you would be able to find a lot if difference between the two...

The real difference comes in the Mountaineer Ultra-Lite...


Quote
  It would stretch my budget, but I will probably only be able to get one muzzleloader for a very long time.  I hunt SE Washington around and in the Blue Mountains.

Hunted there myself wit h my son-in-law - well I should say he hunted I walked around with him... He has a cabin in the Blues above Walla Walla.

Quote
Deer in farm country or the foothills primarily, and elk in the mountains.  I hike a lot, glass and stalk mostly.

Same here that is why I would choose the DISC Extreme.... have you ever shot a thumbhole stock?  I am old really old - and I never thought I would like the switch - but it does make a difference - I really like it now...  If you haven't you should come up to Moscow and do some shooting at the farm.


Quote
I hope to start hunting in Idaho in a year, but may start with a modern rifle until I get to know some areas.

Again I am old but have made the switch to ML's even during the regular rifle season.... and I have some really good center fires collecting dust!

Quote
Also, so from what I read in your reply, the bare 209 conversion kit has worked fine for the disc extreme?  I can only find western and full plastic jacket extremes, so would have to buy the conversion kit from Knight.

The bare primer system is available in a Knight DISC Extreme.  Where are you looking for the rifle at?  I know Sportsmans carries them may not right now but they will have soon.

Might call Muzzle-loaders.com and ask the guys there about getting one with bare primer ignition and open sights... It is going to become a very popular item with them soon - I hope!

Well shoot you are right - they do not list them any place I look - but I think that is a temporary thing.  I have been told they do not have any breech plugs for them at the moment... should have them shortly... Let me see if I can find out more about this on Monday...

Quote
Is there a good list of muzzleloader necessities somewhere?  I think I have good idea what to get, but don't want to forget anything.

Thanks again.

I can give you a general list... but it is all inclusive and you do not need every thing for sure...

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20963

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19040

Make a drive up and we can do some shooting! or check your PM's

mike
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Brushcrawler

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 04:05:15 PM »
Thank you Sabotloader for the wealth of information you share on this site!
There is not enough wilderness left in the world, or in the hearts of men.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: New and confused (Knight questions)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 04:12:59 PM »
Thank you Sabotloader for the wealth of information you share on this site!

Really glad to share the information... I was a teacher/coach for several years so sharing seems normal to me - all day every day...

mike
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:17:26 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

 

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