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Author Topic: Unsworth Resigns  (Read 6930 times)

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2018, 05:15:59 PM »
I don't see this as a good thing.  We just lost someone who for the most part wanted what we wanted but didn't have the power to get it.  Now we will most likely end up with someone who will most likely be more liberal and less recreational friendly.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a Tribal member get the position so that they can "work together more closely with tribes".

Offline aaronoto

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2018, 06:36:07 PM »
I don't see this as a good thing.  We just lost someone who for the most part wanted what we wanted but didn't have the power to get it.  Now we will most likely end up with someone who will most likely be more liberal and less recreational friendly.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a Tribal member get the position so that they can "work together more closely with tribes".

Better the devil you know then the devil you don't know.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2018, 07:00:14 PM »
I hope I am wrong, but with a Democratic led Senate and House and a Democratic Governor running for the White House the new Director could be worse for hunters.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2018, 07:02:32 PM »
I hope I am wrong, but with a Democratic led Senate and House and a Democratic Governor running for the White House the new Director could be worse for hunters.

I am thinking exactly the same thing. The next could be worse than the last two!
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2018, 08:52:42 PM »
Iíve heard that the biologists tried to up the quotas on lions a couple of years ago and it got nixed by the governor.  :dunno:

Unlikely what you heard is what happened
http://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/cougar-hunters-kill-more-than-double-recommended-guidelines/281-391510894

That story is misleading. The biologists recommend a harvest of 10% to 16%. If you take WDFWs cougar population estimates to be accurate, WA last year harvested 13.85% of the cougar population. Clearly within their recommendations. I'll add this is way up from previous years so even that high of a harvest is not a trend.
Additionally only 34% of cougar management areas exceed their target harvest. 55% of cougar management areas never reached their target. 11% were within the target numbers range. Assuming cougars do travel, the areas that went over target should fill in rather quickly.
So do we kill more then biologists recommend? In select areas the answer could be yes but over a one year period hardly anything anyone should worry about.
All that s assuming there are only 2000 cougar in the State. :rolleyes: 
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2018, 03:47:21 AM »
Iíve heard that the biologists tried to up the quotas on lions a couple of years ago and it got nixed by the governor.  :dunno:

Unlikely what you heard is what happened
http://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/cougar-hunters-kill-more-than-double-recommended-guidelines/281-391510894

That story is misleading. The biologists recommend a harvest of 10% to 16%. If you take WDFWs cougar population estimates to be accurate, WA last year harvested 13.85% of the cougar population. Clearly within their recommendations. I'll add this is way up from previous years so even that high of a harvest is not a trend.
Additionally only 34% of cougar management areas exceed their target harvest. 55% of cougar management areas never reached their target. 11% were within the target numbers range. Assuming cougars do travel, the areas that went over target should fill in rather quickly.
So do we kill more then biologists recommend? In select areas the answer could be yes but over a one year period hardly anything anyone should worry about.
All that s assuming there are only 2000 cougar in the State. :rolleyes:

I've heard some WDFW people say they think there may be 3000 to 4000 cougar, the truth is that they really don't have a very good feel for what there is, if in fact we have twice as many cougar as the 2000 guestimate, which I believe there are, then we only harvested 6.925% of the cougar population!  :dunno:

If you read the cougar study from Alberta they mention cases where higher percentages were harvested and the population rebounded within 2 years, they also mention up to 40% of cougar being harvested in another area, I think it was Utah, and yet the population eventually rebounded.
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2018, 08:52:52 AM »
I know nothing about cougar management or biology - but I can't understand why harvest is so restricted for a species that is so difficult to hunt given dogs are outlawed.  Of all the wildlife the state manages, cougars and coyotes are 2 species I probably wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the hunters killing them all off. For those who are far more informed on cougars...is there really a risk of hunting them to dangerously low levels if season were open all year? Or at least from fall to spring? If hunters kill 1 or 2 or 5 over their quotas...what's the harm?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Southpole

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2018, 09:11:05 AM »
I know nothing about cougar management or biology - but I can't understand why harvest is so restricted for a species that is so difficult to hunt given dogs are outlawed.  Of all the wildlife the state manages, cougars and coyotes are 2 species I probably wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the hunters killing them all off. For those who are far more informed on cougars...is there really a risk of hunting them to dangerously low levels if season were open all year? Or at least from fall to spring? If hunters kill 1 or 2 or 5 over their quotas...what's the harm?
Survival of the cutest. If cougars were god awful, ugly, smelly, slimy creatures no one would care. But seriously, with no dogs, boot hunters obviously can't possibly keep up with thinning them out down to a reasonable number for reasons you've mentioned. Then throw in crazy low quotas and they may as well just close cougar hunting all together.
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2018, 09:19:57 AM »
I know nothing about cougar management or biology - but I can't understand why harvest is so restricted for a species that is so difficult to hunt given dogs are outlawed.  Of all the wildlife the state manages, cougars and coyotes are 2 species I probably wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the hunters killing them all off. For those who are far more informed on cougars...is there really a risk of hunting them to dangerously low levels if season were open all year? Or at least from fall to spring? If hunters kill 1 or 2 or 5 over their quotas...what's the harm?

Perhaps they need to educate us, because I can't understand it either.  With our restricted harvest options we cannot possibly put a dent in the population.  We could have 24/7 365 same rules as coyote and not hurt the cougar population.  Not only that but cougar are one of the fastest rebounding species out there for recovery.  There's been numerous studies where cougar were hunted purposefully down to low numbers to test their recovery and they found that they recover very quickly.  So even if somehow boot hunters did somehow manage to kill 1000's of cougars a year or two of restriction and they'd be back, but boot hunters aren't going to kill any big numbers of cats. 

Trapping is what we need if we want to cull back cougar numbers to increase deer herd numbers, although given a cats range and proclivity for keeping other cats out of their territory I think trapping would be hard presses to get any serious numbers of cats off the landscape.  A successful trapper could increase the deer herd in a small area though, that what I'm hoping for.   There's a chunk of state land I know of with difficult access that had a robust mule deer population, it was a small pocket of big mules, but now they're dwindled down to nothing due to cats.  I found 12 mule deer carcasses with the ribs ate out in a 1/4 square mile area shed hunting in the last bit of spring snow.  How many did I not find?  Ever since hounds were eliminated this small pocket of mules have been going down hill.   I only found 1 mule doe left this year, she was all by herself in mid September and a cat was stalking her, I almost walked on top of the cat then I busted the deer 50 yards downhill of the cat.  The cat hissed at me  :chuckle:   I expect this might be the last year for mule deer in there.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2018, 09:31:37 AM »
I know nothing about cougar management or biology - but I can't understand why harvest is so restricted for a species that is so difficult to hunt given dogs are outlawed.  Of all the wildlife the state manages, cougars and coyotes are 2 species I probably wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the hunters killing them all off. For those who are far more informed on cougars...is there really a risk of hunting them to dangerously low levels if season were open all year? Or at least from fall to spring? If hunters kill 1 or 2 or 5 over their quotas...what's the harm?
You can learn all about cougars here from this guy....I'm sure the hippies will.
http://www.pencol.edu/events/studium-generale-reciprocity-among-mountain-lions-0

Offline Special T

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2018, 10:09:58 AM »
I know nothing about cougar management or biology - but I can't understand why harvest is so restricted for a species that is so difficult to hunt given dogs are outlawed.  Of all the wildlife the state manages, cougars and coyotes are 2 species I probably wouldn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the hunters killing them all off. For those who are far more informed on cougars...is there really a risk of hunting them to dangerously low levels if season were open all year? Or at least from fall to spring? If hunters kill 1 or 2 or 5 over their quotas...what's the harm?
Great points, and it highlights the idiocy of the department and thier suggested rule changes.

How many west side units never reach thier quota?

How dumb is it of the WDFW to tighten restrictions across the state when only a few gmus ever reach or surpass the quotas? It makes them look disconnected and harms thier relationship with hunters... 

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Offline James

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Offline Bill W

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2018, 11:56:08 AM »
Ron's a common sense sport fisherman.  I agree Unsworth mucked up the Puget Sound salmon fishing.   What I don't like is his fishing "rules simplification" exercise that just ended and now messed up some of the Columbia Basin fishing opportunities.   He ran the exercise and then resigned from the job.  Shoot, why change the rules if you don't intend to stick around and see them implemented.   I've seen this before and it was called seagull management.  Fly by, drop a turd and then fly out and let others fix things.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2018, 12:13:59 PM »
But things can always be blamed on the guy or turd dropper that went out.

Offline WSU

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Re: Unsworth Resigns
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2018, 12:41:54 PM »
Head over to bloodydecks and read Ron's version of events.  Sounds like Unsworth was a no-show at lots of important meetings.