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Author Topic: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?  (Read 4348 times)

Offline dreamingbig

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Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« on: January 24, 2018, 10:39:51 PM »
I just read the proposed elk regs and the amount of lost opportunity by bowhunters is absurd.

The Nile, Bumping and Rimrock is all spike only with no cow permits.  Both modern and muzzle loader have cow permits.

I canít make sense of these proposed changes.

I canít sleep now... GGRRRRRR


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Offline hughjorgan

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 12:03:44 AM »
I believe we are getting fed a nice chit sandwich. I just crunched the harvest numbers and in no way has our harvest increased enough in the Nile, bumping or rimrock to warrant taking away our opportunity to hunt cows.

The take of cows in the quilomene and naneum on the other hand from the last two years available data show a substantial increase of cows taken.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 05:14:54 AM »
Its a choice of weapon cycle where in 6 yrs you will get your cow permits back, kind of like the wolf ungulate cycle. :chuckle: Think of it as an experiment by WDFW

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 05:34:48 AM »
Total BS
West side here I come .......... again
Keep the wind in your hair, and the sun at your back.

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Offline dreamingbig

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 06:42:12 AM »
Everyone needs to submit comments during the comment period.


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Offline 92xj

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 06:52:34 AM »
I'm curious if bowhunters have any support from muzzleloader and rifle hunters that benefited from the taking away of bowhunters or if they support the proposed changes.
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 06:56:40 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.
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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 06:57:05 AM »
Isn't there still cows to hunt late?
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Offline 92xj

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 07:02:53 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
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Offline 92xj

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 07:04:54 AM »
Isn't there still cows to hunt late?
Yep and those cows stay exactly in the same place in late November and early December as they do in September. Especially with all the farms and feed stations down low, they have zero desire to leave and go to that nice fresh lowland private out of unit food. The late season is like shooting fish in a barrel up there.
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 07:10:30 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
  I haven't looked over all of the proposed permits yet so I couldn't speak to that yet.  I'm speaking to the Yakima pmu not klickitat.   Had a good convo with a bio friend last fall and the Yakima herd is down thousands of animals over the last three years.  End goal should be healthy robust herds.  If that comes with the loss of some opportunity for a 3 year cycle I'm ok with that within reason.  Did they add a significant amount of cow tags for muzzy and rifle in the Yakima gmu's?

I'm still extremely angry that the state fails to do anything to help our mule deer herds in this state.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline 92xj

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 07:15:40 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
  I haven't looked over all of the proposed permits yet so I couldn't speak to that yet.  I'm speaking to the Yakima pmu not klickitat.   Had a good convo with a bio friend last fall and the Yakima herd is down thousands of animals over the last three years.  End goal should be healthy robust herds.  If that comes with the loss of some opportunity for a 3 year cycle I'm ok with that within reason.  Did they add a significant amount of cow tags for muzzy and rifle in the Yakima gmu's?

I'm still extremely angry that the state fails to do anything to help our mule deer herds in this state.

Well, maybe not. I could have been mistake and misspoke.  I thought I had read there was an increase in permit cow tags for those two groups, but I just looked at the pdf and did not see an increase, just the same number of cow permit tags for them. 
But then I question, why not decrease those tags to help build the herd?
Taken something 100% away from one group just sucks, for whatever group that is.  Give and take, not just take.
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 07:28:32 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
  I haven't looked over all of the proposed permits yet so I couldn't speak to that yet.  I'm speaking to the Yakima pmu not klickitat.   Had a good convo with a bio friend last fall and the Yakima herd is down thousands of animals over the last three years.  End goal should be healthy robust herds.  If that comes with the loss of some opportunity for a 3 year cycle I'm ok with that within reason.  Did they add a significant amount of cow tags for muzzy and rifle in the Yakima gmu's?

I'm still extremely angry that the state fails to do anything to help our mule deer herds in this state.

Well, maybe not. I could have been mistake and misspoke.  I thought I had read there was an increase in permit cow tags for those two groups, but I just looked at the pdf and did not see an increase, just the same number of cow permit tags for them. 
But then I question, why not decrease those tags to help build the herd?
Taken something 100% away from one group just sucks, for whatever group that is.  Give and take, not just take.
  I agree 100%. However we still have late season opportunities. But I would also argue that taking away rifle and Muzzleloader cow permits would be more effective than General archery especially the early-season. I have not looked at Harvest data to back that up though so maybe I'm just talking out my behind LOL. 
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 07:29:35 AM »
It does look like the kittitas boys took it in the shorts though with big permit increases.
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Offline vandeman17

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 08:20:03 AM »
I just get the feel that there is more to the halting of archery cow tags than meets the eye. Maybe some influence from a certain group behind the scenes had some sway in this vote...
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2018, 08:34:10 AM »
Yakima gmu's had 1800ish cow tags from 2014-2016 as well as early and late otc archery.  Add in a couple worse than normal winters.  In my conversations with a yakima bio last fall he said population had dipped from something like 12k+ to 8500 (don't remember the exact stats).  Gross mismanagement along with Mother Nature is at fault but blaming things in the past don't help the future.  We need to do what is best for elk and deer not what is best for our own personal hunting endeavours.  I've said it a couple different times now that we need to quit *censored*footing around game management. If the ultimate goal is to build her populations back up to where they are at a healthy number let's do that. Cut all cow hunting for the next 3 years and let's attack this thing and get it back to the sustainable number and then keep it there.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 08:36:09 AM »
Everyone needs to submit comments during the comment period.


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:yeah: :yeah:

This actually works along with a trip to the commission meeting to voice your opinion.  You have to make sure that you argue to have OTC cow hunts in multiple units to keep hunters spread out.  If one unit is open and all the others around it are closed people will migrate to the one unit that is open.

If the move to no archery cow opportunity is herd health then we have to argue to eliminate the extra muzzy and modern cow tags.  I just don't see how the solution is to take opportunity away from one group and give more to the other two groups.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »
It does look like the kittitas boys took it in the shorts though with big permit increases.
Yes no OTC cow hunting in early season archery.  100 permits for early archery cow.

Muzzy cow increased from 50 to 100, doubled.

Modern cow increased from 100 to 250, more than doubled.

Archery still has late OTC cow opportunity.

It just doesn't look like a herd health thing in 328&329, it looks like moving opportunity from one group to another.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2018, 09:06:39 AM »
Ill say it, you have a certain group that have ZERO limits on deer and elk, and that group doesnít provide real accurate harvest data. So, how in the hell can you manage herds under those conditions? Just asking, all facts with no bashing.
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Offline dreamingbig

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2018, 09:53:53 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
  I haven't looked over all of the proposed permits yet so I couldn't speak to that yet.  I'm speaking to the Yakima pmu not klickitat.   Had a good convo with a bio friend last fall and the Yakima herd is down thousands of animals over the last three years.  End goal should be healthy robust herds.  If that comes with the loss of some opportunity for a 3 year cycle I'm ok with that within reason.  Did they add a significant amount of cow tags for muzzy and rifle in the Yakima gmu's?

I'm still extremely angry that the state fails to do anything to help our mule deer herds in this state.
Karl,

I respect your opinion but disagree.  Here is part of the reason.  Anterless opportunity in the bumping is zero for archery (closed in late season) while still 50 tags between MF and MZ.  Why donít the archers get a chance?


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Offline dreamingbig

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2018, 09:59:00 AM »
Yakima gmu's had 1800ish cow tags from 2014-2016 as well as early and late otc archery.  Add in a couple worse than normal winters.  In my conversations with a yakima bio last fall he said population had dipped from something like 12k+ to 8500 (don't remember the exact stats).  Gross mismanagement along with Mother Nature is at fault but blaming things in the past don't help the future.  We need to do what is best for elk and deer not what is best for our own personal hunting endeavours.  I've said it a couple different times now that we need to quit *censored*footing around game management. If the ultimate goal is to build her populations back up to where they are at a healthy number let's do that. Cut all cow hunting for the next 3 years and let's attack this thing and get it back to the sustainable number and then keep it there.
The Yakima herd was over objective and they were complaining.  Now it is supposedly below and they f the archers to bring it back?

They made the same switch in 2010 and had no herd health issues at that time.  I donít believe this is based on science.

The only reason we got it back is because we got active and vocal.  This commission will run over the archery user group every chance they get.



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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2018, 10:23:07 AM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

So, you're for the substantial increase in cow tags for the muzzleloader and rifle guys? Your opinion is those new tags will tag out less cows than the OTC archery cow tag and build the herd back up?

Please don't take those as negatives just genuine guestions for me to gain more knowledge.
  I haven't looked over all of the proposed permits yet so I couldn't speak to that yet.  I'm speaking to the Yakima pmu not klickitat.   Had a good convo with a bio friend last fall and the Yakima herd is down thousands of animals over the last three years.  End goal should be healthy robust herds.  If that comes with the loss of some opportunity for a 3 year cycle I'm ok with that within reason.  Did they add a significant amount of cow tags for muzzy and rifle in the Yakima gmu's?

I'm still extremely angry that the state fails to do anything to help our mule deer herds in this state.
Karl,

I respect your opinion but disagree.  Here is part of the reason.  Anterless opportunity in the bumping is zero for archery (closed in late season) while still 50 tags between MF and MZ.  Why donít the archers get a chance?


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you are correct and I don't necessarily disagree though unit 4 unit they may not be equivalent we do still have those late opportunities and other GM use they're probably better that time of year than bumping.  I've written to Fur and Feathers on multiple occasions about that very thing. Bumping as well as Bethel both need to be open for late archery.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline buglebrush

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2018, 12:56:11 PM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

But the sad thing is that our opportunity is being reduced because of WDFW'S refusal to manage predators.  Herds can only support so much loss, and in WDFW'S view it's better to have excess predators and less hunters.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2018, 01:00:51 PM »
Whether we want to admit it or not overall population of the Yakima pmu is down significantly over the last couple years. We are still allowed late season so I don't see anything wrong with the 3-year cycle of letting the herb build back up. I also believe that should be Universal across the board and not just early archery as I think that's a pretty small Band-Aid for pretty big wound. This is coming from a guy who loves early archery season and despises having to hunt late archery. Backpacking in the sunshine and calling in Elk is the best thing ever and I'll still be doing it but I'll be looking for spikes.

But the sad thing is that our opportunity is being reduced because of WDFW'S refusal to manage predators.  Herds can only support so much loss, and in WDFW'S view it's better to have excess predators and less hunters.
  oh we are a predator state for sure! But Hunters like to pretend that we are not part of that equation there are far more human predators in the woods then there are four legged predators in the woods. That's the thing about pointing her finger at something,  there's 3 pointing back at us. 
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline tgomez

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 04:57:53 PM »
The majority of hunters in this state are modern firearm hunters bringing in the most coin for WDFW. I was planning on going to the Nile to hunt spikes/cows this September, but this just ruined my plans. I always wanted to get a black bear with my Hoyt spot and stalk, so I might just go for that goal while chasing whitetail as well. As they say, "It is what it is."
THE BLACK MAMBA "Deadliest on the planet!"🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍

 

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