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Author Topic: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?  (Read 4317 times)

Online jdb

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2018, 02:09:32 PM »
Ok donít hate me for asking this but if they didnít take away the late season couldnít they then argue that theyíre in affect reducing the opportunity not eliminating it? Donít get me wrong I donít really agree with what theyíve done. Iíd estimate way more cows are killed late rather than early if they want to reduce the cows killed they shouldíve tak n late season
nuke the gray whales for jesus!

Offline hughjorgan

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2018, 04:10:54 PM »
Late seasons suck, they jam everyone into a small unit and open others that don't have many critters since they've already moved down. IMO they are just going to put more stress on the resource in the late season. The Nile is busier than modern firearm season in that unit.

If they are reducing opportunity for Archery they should adjust tags accordingly for muzzleloader and modern.

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2018, 05:55:35 PM »
Seems like if you hunt in Washington
From what Ive seen in the last 35 years.
You need to learn to bend over
User groups- imagine how nice it was to get one deer or elk tag and be able to pursue using all weapon choices.
Less than 50 bucks for all liscences
Then it was choose your hunt area for elk east or west
Then good bye to bear and cat hounds and bear baiting
Goodbye to body grip trapping
Habitat loss
Tree company fees
Now itís just more of the same plus lets add some wolves in also
Keep the wind in your hair, and the sun at your back.

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Fine figure of a man, yes?
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Offline snake

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2018, 06:29:52 PM »
Everyone needs to submit comments during the comment period.


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:yeah: :yeah:

This actually works along with a trip to the commission meeting to voice your opinion.  You have to make sure that you argue to have OTC cow hunts in multiple units to keep hunters spread out.  If one unit is open and all the others around it are closed people will migrate to the one unit that is open.


If the move to no archery cow opportunity is herd health then we have to argue to eliminate the extra muzzy and modern cow tags.  I just don't see how the solution is to take opportunity away from one group and give more to the other two groups.
Definitely need to open up some more GMU's for early archery. Even if they are spike only.  Bethel, Tampico, and Little Naches or at least one of them.  No reason archers should NEVER be able to hunt early in those units. It would relieve a lot of crowding and pressure on the animals. 

Offline hughjorgan

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2018, 08:23:01 PM »
Everyone needs to submit comments during the comment period.


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:yeah: :yeah:

This actually works along with a trip to the commission meeting to voice your opinion.  You have to make sure that you argue to have OTC cow hunts in multiple units to keep hunters spread out.  If one unit is open and all the others around it are closed people will migrate to the one unit that is open.


If the move to no archery cow opportunity is herd health then we have to argue to eliminate the extra muzzy and modern cow tags.  I just don't see how the solution is to take opportunity away from one group and give more to the other two groups.
Definitely need to open up some more GMU's for early archery. Even if they are spike only.  Bethel, Tampico, and Little Naches or at least one of them.  No reason archers should NEVER be able to hunt early in those units. It would relieve a lot of crowding and pressure on the animals.

 :yeah:

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2018, 09:45:53 PM »
I realize i'm gonna get flamed but how many on this thread have taken the time to go out and kill some coyotes,bear or tag a cougar this season?Another way of looking at this as was pointed out already is there are way more modern firearm hunters putting in the pot stands to reason they should have more from the pot.Also if there are more modern firearm hunters out trying to help with the problem by killing coyotes,bears and cougars then maybe they should be rewarded more from the pot.  :twocents: If you are an archery hunter as well i am then maybe this year go hunt modern if you want a chance at a cow tag.
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Offline Fullabull

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2018, 09:52:41 PM »
This state will always cater to those who spend the most money and that is the MF  group. Give archers better early season dates and take away the late season.

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2018, 10:32:13 PM »
 :yeah: ok but why early and not late,not arguing just that people complain about early temps too.well actually complain no matter what.just sayin
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Offline fastdam

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2018, 08:55:56 AM »
Quote
r
I much prefer late season hunting to early. It's so hot early season. It can be 100 degrees. That's not ideal hunting temps

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2018, 09:21:12 AM »
Anyone who thinks that Modern Firearm hunters have anything over the Archery tags or season are sadly mistaken.  Modern Firearm season is a joke.  All herds have spent the last two months being chased around from other hunters, loss of legal animals that have been harvested by other hunters, no rutting activity, way more people in the woods.  Yes Modern guys do have a superior weapon but they are chasing around very skittish animals.  The success rates are low for modern hunters.  Look at the harvest rates.  Archery guys generally kill more animals per unit then modern guys even though there are way less hunters.  With the loss of antlerless hunting the archery success rates will most likely come down to the MF success rates which average around 3% for most units.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 10:01:30 PM by Buzz2401 »

Offline SuperX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2018, 10:25:24 AM »
Archery guys generally kill more animals per unit then modern guys even though there are way less hunters.  With the loss of antlerless hunting the archery success rates will most likely come down to the MF success rates which average around 3% for most units.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/elk_general.html

no sense guessing about it, here are the actual statistics

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2018, 10:38:02 AM »
Archery guys generally kill more animals per unit then modern guys even though there are way less hunters.  With the loss of antlerless hunting the archery success rates will most likely come down to the MF success rates which average around 3% for most units.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/elk_general.html

no sense guessing about it, here are the actual statistics
Well there you have it archery general season has an 11% success rate, move the hunt to modern permits and success rate for those guys is 40%, muzzy permits are only successful 26% of the time. Of course thatís statewide. Iíll dig into the numbers for those specific gmuís and see if the modern guys are for some reason only in the 3% success rang there.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2018, 10:51:17 AM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Fullabull

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2018, 03:43:14 PM »
This state will always cater to those who spend the most money and that is the MF  group. Give archers better early season dates and take away the late season.

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2018, 07:30:24 PM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.


Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Offline Fullabull

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2018, 09:47:00 PM »
Everything always looks equal until you figure in the permit hunts and success rates and quality.

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2018, 10:02:55 PM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.


Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons. 

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2018, 10:19:05 PM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.


Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.
Not cherry picking numbers. Thatís where I hunt. Thatís where they closed the early season otc cow hunt. Thatís where they doubled muzzy tags and increased the modern tags more than double. All Iím saying is if the herd is in trouble in these two units why are they giving the tags to two user groups that by the numbers for they unit have a higher success rate for special permits?

Now if they say the herd is still over capacity and that is why we are shifting permits, okay. If they say that modern guys complained and wanted more permits okay. But if they want me to believe the herd is on the decline so they pulled the early season from archers and gave away all those other permits Iím not buying that.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2018, 11:21:36 PM »
Maybe they did in a sense not sure.?They said the herd was in trouble.They did not say the herd was in trouble specific to the gmu in question.There are over quota gmu's i guess and they made this move.Does that mean that they feel there is enough elk in these gmu's to warrant a bump in tags?What really is the problem?
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Offline MADMAX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2018, 05:27:10 AM »
somewhere else on I here I read that the closed 3-series archery general cow units were being setup that way because of cows being booted out of higher country earlier thus causing landowner complaints
anyone heard anything official along those lines ?
Keep the wind in your hair, and the sun at your back.

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Offline Tbar

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2018, 07:13:28 AM »
somewhere else on I here I read that the closed 3-series archery general cow units were being setup that way because of cows being booted out of higher country earlier thus causing landowner complaints
anyone heard anything official along those lines ?
:yeah:
Political move, not user group move. And (most) people are in the dark to where the harvest shift impacting the overall herd went.

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2018, 09:07:30 AM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.


Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons.

I partially agree with you here that archers as an average are more dedicated but they also get first chance at the animals and better seasons.  But that doesn't really change the facts that general season archers have higher success rates, of course those success rates will go down with out the antlerless animals being able to be harvested.  328\329 archers were 2.8% successful at taking spike.  That sounds low but now that archers can't take cows more will take spikes and then modern guys success rates will also go down.  Nobody wins is my point.  Like I said it sucks but just don't think its right to think that the modern guys are getting some sweet deal here.

Offline SuperX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2018, 09:26:20 AM »
Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.


Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons.

I partially agree with you here that archers as an average are more dedicated but they also get first chance at the animals and better seasons.  But that doesn't really change the facts that general season archers have higher success rates, of course those success rates will go down with out the antlerless animals being able to be harvested.  328\329 archers were 2.8% successful at taking spike.  That sounds low but now that archers can't take cows more will take spikes and then modern guys success rates will also go down.  Nobody wins is my point.  Like I said it sucks but just don't think its right to think that the modern guys are getting some sweet deal here.

I am not sure that bowhunters are more dedicated or better hunters, I know I'm better since switching, but there are some great hunters shooting rifles out there.  Success percent is harder to achieve with large numbers because there are a lot more poor hunters among that 40K of modern than in 15K of archery hunters.  Bowhunting weeds out the worst hunters I guess.

Re: spikes, I hunted late this year and saw hundreds of elk in 30-50 head herds, but I only saw a half dozen bulls and of those only 3 spikes.  I suspect that is skewed but it maps to my hunting experience.  I've only seen 2-3 spikes during early season since 2010. 

To me, this change means I will have to look into hunting out of state for early season, if I need to get an elk after that, maybe Washington for late as a last resort.  All I want to do is fill the freezer :)

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2018, 09:38:32 AM »
I'm thinking of just doing the westside rain forest walks with a bow or rifle on the peninsula again
then going to do mulie out of state rifle hunt in Montana solo if I get drawn
Try for a deer and elk multi tags
Methow at the cabin with buds
giving the 300 series up
Keep the wind in your hair, and the sun at your back.

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Offline dreamingbig

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Any other bowhunters want to throw up?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2018, 12:55:49 PM »
Bowhunters - last weekend to get your comments in and your letters written.  I donít have much faith in them making changes but we have to try!

Good luck and good writing.


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