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Author Topic: 209 Muzzy's In Washington  (Read 3576 times)

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2018, 12:44:58 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.

Offline SuperX

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2018, 03:05:34 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.

nothing really points to this resulting in more days, rather the opposite.  Having a larger hunter base makes every efficiency improvement more impactful, and having a large number of hunters increases the risk that a better than expected year could damage recovery.  My $.02

Offline floatinghat

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2018, 03:10:08 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2018, 04:21:46 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2018, 04:32:21 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?

Offline carlyoungs

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2018, 05:23:36 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


This is a great topic and enjoy reading both sides. The way I read his post was everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an A Hole. What is the a&h you are talking about Sabotloader? I know nothing about mls.

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2018, 05:25:28 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


This is a great topic and enjoy reading both sides. The way I read his post was everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an A Hole. What is the a&h you are talking about Sabotloader? I know nothing about mls.

Girls donít do that

Offline jackelope

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2018, 05:50:56 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


This is a great topic and enjoy reading both sides. The way I read his post was everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an A Hole. What is the a&h you are talking about Sabotloader? I know nothing about mls.

Austin and Halleck.
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" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2018, 06:07:54 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


The primers themselves are water proof - but that does not mean your breech is water proof.  Water and water vapor can get by the primer in the breech plug primer pocket - unless you have zero head space in the breech plug.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 06:13:45 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline buglebrush

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2018, 06:11:03 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


The primers themselves are water proof - but that does not mean your breech is water proof.  Water and water vapor can pet by the prime in the breech plug unless you have zero head space in the breech plug.

The reason 209 is more waterproof is that I can seal it in so much better with nail polish.  Really hard to do this effectively with Musket Caps. 

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2018, 06:12:08 PM »
In the end, the more trouble-free we make it, the more hunters will move to ML, the higher the harvest numbers will be, the fewer days ML season will last.
It could also be argued that if more modern hunters switched to muzzy that the muzzy hunters would have a better seat at the table when it comes to seasons and permits.


While that could be argued, more hunters move to muzzy and they change (eliminate the late) the season, require hunter orange, etc.  I guess from my perspective, I don't trust our WDFW to do what is in our best interest, I don't think this change is needed, I believe it will degrade the experience long term.  Just my opinions and like everyone I have an AH as well.

Just so you know there is a conversion for the A&H - but if you are shooting #11's now there isn't a real advantage... IMO

Are 209s more weather proof?


This is a great topic and enjoy reading both sides. The way I read his post was everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an A Hole. What is the a&h you are talking about Sabotloader? I know nothing about mls.

I made an assumption he was talking about an Austin & Halleck ML



Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline floatinghat

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2018, 11:33:33 AM »
Slow reply due to business travel. Yes, I was talking the anatomy.  SL, very nice A&H, are they typically 1-28 twist?

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2018, 11:39:35 AM »
Slow reply due to business travel. Yes, I was talking the anatomy.  SL, very nice A&H, are they typically 1-28 twist?

Yes - 1/28... but they have a terribly long bolt throw....
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline floatinghat

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2018, 07:58:49 AM »
Thanks,  really hoping this doesn't get approved.  If it does I hope my fears aren't realized, WA already packs a lot of people into a few Muzzy units, this would just make those units more crowded for at least the next 3 years.

Offline GoexBlackhorn

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2018, 04:43:52 PM »
Thanks,  really hoping this doesn't get approved.  If it does I hope my fears aren't realized, WA already packs a lot of people into a few Muzzy units, this would just make those units more crowded for at least the next 3 years.

In the next year, you can expect the number of new muzzleloader hunting licenses to double, now that the ML gun laws have changed to allow inlines.

All the gun stores in Pennsylvania are going to enjoy the added business. This will turn into a nice boost of your sporting goods economy. Plus the State reaps the cash flow from the additional license fees and taxes added to the sales of all the MLs and accessories.

It's a Plus-Plus for the Pennsylvania economy.

Offline TommyGun496

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2018, 06:29:49 AM »
Thanks,  really hoping this doesn't get approved.  If it does I hope my fears aren't realized, WA already packs a lot of people into a few Muzzy units, this would just make those units more crowded for at least the next 3 years.

In the next year, you can expect the number of new muzzleloader hunting licenses to double, now that the ML gun laws have changed to allow inlines.

All the gun stores in Pennsylvania are going to enjoy the added business. This will turn into a nice boost of your sporting goods economy. Plus the State reaps the cash flow from the additional license fees and taxes added to the sales of all the MLs and accessories.

It's a Plus-Plus for the Pennsylvania economy.


Inlines are already legal.  The only change would be the 209 ignition that will be allowed.

Offline GoexBlackhorn

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2018, 10:05:32 AM »
In that case, adding 209 ignition allows better ignition from powders like......
Blackhorn 209
Pyrodex Select
American Pioneer
Shockey Gold
Alliant Black Mag
Alliant Blue Mag pellets
White Hots pellets
Pyrodex pellets.

For shooters currently using either real blackpowder or 777, no added benefit really, when changing to 209 ignitions.

Offline bobcat

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2018, 10:08:14 AM »
Can I ask what this has to do with Pennsylvania? How would a change here in Washington affect anything in Pennsylvania?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 12:48:14 PM by bobcat »

Online JimmyHoffa

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2018, 10:10:21 AM »
In that case, adding 209 ignition allows better ignition from powders like......
Blackhorn 209
Pyrodex Select
American Pioneer
Shockey Gold
Alliant Black Mag
Alliant Blue Mag pellets
White Hots pellets
Pyrodex pellets.

For shooters currently using either real blackpowder or 777, no added benefit really, when changing to 209 ignitions.
It isn't just 209, any firearm primer would be legal as will a closed/weather-resistant breech.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2018, 12:45:30 PM »
In that case, adding 209 ignition allows better ignition from powders like......
Blackhorn 209
Pyrodex Select
American Pioneer
Shockey Gold
Alliant Black Mag
Alliant Blue Mag pellets
White Hots pellets
Pyrodex pellets.

For shooters currently using either real blackpowder or 777, no added benefit really, when changing to 209 ignitions.
It isn't just 209, any firearm primer would be legal as will a closed/weather-resistant breech.

Which still would not change much in the big picture.  You can easily make your current percussion cap breech water proof also... That has been done for decades!

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline buglebrush

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2018, 12:58:48 PM »
Can I ask what this has to do with Pennsylvania? How would a change here in Washington affect anything in Pennsylvania?

Nothing, but they're terrified anyway  :chuckle:    :sry:

Offline JeffRaines

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2018, 01:14:45 PM »
I don't understand the fear.

A good majority of the modern guys pull their guns out a couple weeks before season, fire a few rounds and call it good. I'd say a good percentage don't really leave their rigs much while hunting. What makes you think these hunters are going to suddenly put in the time and effort to learn a new weapon and become proficient with it, then suddenly start leaving their trucks and roaming the woods? Its not a realistic conclusion based on whats at stake.

Sure, if we're talking optics, then yes... because said guys would be able to go and watch over clearcuts in their rigs and take 200+ yard shots with ease, after all the modern muzzleloader isn't far off from a centerfire when it comes to accuracy and ability.

As far as it being a slippery slope... I can't see that either. The optic would make such a huge difference, even with the rules we have now. Changing the cap rules would just make it easier to find caps, you wouldn't be restricted to certain powders, and most importantly you could go buy any muzzleloader off the shelf. You wouldn't have to worry about it being "NW Legal" or some crap.

Offline pilebuck60

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2018, 06:53:59 PM »
Model 700 um laminated will be my choice

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2018, 07:04:05 PM »
For the 209 powders, do they run cleaner and foul less? Never played with them so curious if cleaner I might give them a go if not Iíll stick to 777
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Offline floatinghat

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Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2018, 10:00:42 PM »
For the 209 powders, do they run cleaner and foul less? Never played with them so curious if cleaner I might give them a go if not Iíll stick to 777

Yes, BH209 is very clean and leaves no crud ring.  If you want you could use BH209 now by duplexing 5 to 10gr of your choice of BP or sub and the remainder of your load BH209.  It's not worth the effort for me if I have to make a follow up shot.  I am not advocating duplexing and this is purely informational how BH209 could be ignited without a 209 primer.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:00:17 AM by floatinghat »

 

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