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Author Topic: Knight UL converting to 209  (Read 1308 times)

Offline Damnimissed

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Knight UL converting to 209
« on: April 17, 2018, 02:10:05 AM »
Does anyone know what's needed to convert from western to 209 in Knight bolt rifles? Obviously the breech plug or nipple will need swapped but what about the firing pin?
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Offline biggfish

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 02:13:26 AM »
Can't say for certain but generally speaking a musket firing pin is wider than a 209 pin. I know in my CVA the pin and breach plug have to be changed to shoot the different primer.

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Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 02:41:04 AM »
Tag :tup:
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Offline Elk329

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 04:36:55 AM »
https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product-category/muzzleloader-shooting-supplies/muzzleloader-conversion-kits/

Knight rifles site showing conversion kits. Look likes you would have to change breech plug and bolt.
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Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 09:02:09 AM »
Does anyone know what's needed to convert from western to 209 in Knight bolt rifles? Obviously the breech plug or nipple will need swapped but what about the firing pin?

The firing pin/hammer assembly remains the same..

You will need to change the Western Bolt housing out for a 209 bolt housing. And you will need a new breech plug.  There are two types of each.... If you want to go to the FPJ system (Full Plastic Jacket - red plastic jacket) then you would need this conversion...

This link will take you to the FPJ Conversion.

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/ultra-lite-full-plastic-jacket-conversion-kit/

This link wil show the things needed for the FPJ system - Red Plastic Jackets

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product-category/muzzleloader-shooting-supplies/209-primer-ignition-systems/

This link will take you to the NFPJ System - better know os the bare primer system

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/ultra-lite-209-bare-primer-conversion-kit/

Personally I would really suggest the NFPJ system...



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Offline p-ohana

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 10:37:06 AM »
My Knight Bighorn came with 3 breech plugs, 1 is for the #11 caps which I’m currently using one breech plug is alittle bigger I’m guessing is for musketcaps but the
3rd has no nipple and is magnetized and back end of the plug is conclaved out instead of in. Is the 3rd breech plug for using the 209 primer? I’ve only used the #11 cap breech plug. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
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Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 11:06:36 AM »
My Knight Bighorn came with 3 breech plugs, 1 is for the #11 caps which I’m currently using one breech plug is alittle bigger I’m guessing is for musketcaps but the
3rd has no nipple and is magnetized and back end of the plug is conclaved out instead of in. Is the 3rd breech plug for using the 209 primer? I’ve only used the #11 cap breech plug. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

The Bighorn normally uses the same breech plug for #11 or Musket cap ignition - you just change the nipple to match the cap you want to use...

The second breech plug is probably a FPJ plug and uses Red Plastic Jackets with 209's inserted into the red plastic jackets

The 3rd plug you mention is a NFPJ - or bare primer ignition.  you just insert the 209 primer into the breech plug.

The next important thing is the hammer you have.. Is it a Universal Hammer, a hammer with a cone shaped piece of metal on the face of the hammer or a flat faced hammer for percussion caps.

This is a picture shows the Hammer assemblies..



BP's



The breech plug on the left is a FPJ 209 plug (but it is a DISC plug)  - the plug on the far right is a bare primer plug for a Bighorn

I should tell you Knight no longer offers the bare primer plug for a Bighorn - there is a safety concern that the blow back from the shot can spit the 209 primer out of the BP and cause possible harm to the shooter or someone around the rifle.

Also using BH in a plunder gun is not really a good ideal.

Hope this information helps a little bit...

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Offline sagerat

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 11:25:48 AM »


Also using BH in a plunder gun is not really
[/quote]

What is a plunder gun?

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 12:03:45 PM »


Also using BH in a plunder gun is not really

What is a plunder gun?
[/quote]

Sorry about that... a plunger gun is a ML with an open breech and when the trigger is pulled the hammer assembly (plunger) slides forward and strikes the ignition device.

This group of pictures shows the possible results of shooting a bare 209 primer in a plunger gun.  These were shot using T7 powder - using BH will increase the possibility of this problem.



Using BH-209 in a plunger gun can really cause this problem to show itself.

The other thing is BH is a progressive burning powder and it requires pressure in the bore to burn efficiently.  If the primer is blown out of the breech plug the bore will loose some pressure reducing the efficiency of the powder burn

 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:11:27 PM by Sabotloader »
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Offline Damnimissed

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 09:43:20 PM »
Am I really going to have to get rid of my jeweled bolt? :'(
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Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 06:31:10 AM »
@sabotloader why do you prefer the bare primer option for the disc extreme? Does it seal up well for weather? Is it easy to install and remove the primer?

Thanks and sorry for the threadjack  :hello:

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 08:22:26 AM »
@sabotloader why do you prefer the bare primer option for the disc extreme? Does it seal up well for weather? Is it easy to install and remove the primer?

Thanks and sorry for the threadjack  :hello:

The bare primer can be totally water proof and it also can be totally clean in the breech area after multiple shots.

There are two types or methods to loading a bare primer into the breech of the rifle.

The newest and currect version of the NFPJ bolt shown in this picture.



If you look at the face of the bolt you can see a primer rail system built into the face.  You slide the primer into the rails - push the bolt forward which places the primer into the breech plug and cam the bolt handle down to lock the primer in place.  After the shot or if you just want to remove the primer open the bolt, pull back and the primer is extracted. Then tip the rifle to side and the primer falls out.

This picture shows the current system



I must say that I do prefer the older of the two methods the best.  But this method is disappearing rapidly.  It uses the current and the past FPJ bolt which has a rim around the end of the bolt to cradle the FPJ (red plastic jacket) with a 209 primer installed. If you look at the top picture - this is a FPJ bolt with a primer adapted installed in the bolt.  With the setup you just drop the primer in the opening in the primer adapter and repeat the opening and closing process.



This picture shows the primer resting in primer adapted ready to be closed...



With either of the two systems and if things are right your spent primers could look like this when they come out of the bolt after being shot.






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Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 08:37:16 AM »
Thanks sabot!

Your posts are always very informative and I like the pictures. I think I will look closer t the bare primer option for my disc extreme when I convert it.

Offline floatinghat

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 06:27:04 AM »

Interesting that people are willing to convert from "caps" to 209's.  The cost to convert a Knight as I understand it will be about $200 once shipping and tax is included.  That is a lot of cheddar to spend, given the additional expense of BH I don't understand, help me see what I am missing?

I could see it on a new rifle but to convert?

Offline kerrdog

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Re: Knight UL converting to 209
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2018, 07:40:31 PM »

Interesting that people are willing to convert from "caps" to 209's.  The cost to convert a Knight as I understand it will be about $200 once shipping and tax is included.  That is a lot of cheddar to spend, given the additional expense of BH I don't understand, help me see what I am missing?

I could see it on a new rifle but to convert?

I bought the conversion from Knight for mine and my Son's Ultralights.  I wanted to try Blackhorn 209 powder to see it you can actually keep shooting without swabbing between every shot. (I don't mind swabbing, but a cleaner propellant just makes sense to me.  I I've had difficulty getting a second or third shot loaded with 777 while hunting)  I can report that you can shoot shot after shot and it actually gets easier to load! I started swabbing because the bullets were loading too easy I thought it might be effecting accuracy!  Way less smoke and way less stink when shooting BH209. And the breech plugs comes out easily.  15 shots of 777 and getting the breech plug takes much, much more force to remove. Also, with 777 it seems like I it would "compress" or "settle" while measuring just by tapping the side of the powder measure so I wondered if I had a consistent amount of power.  The BH doesn't do that; the granules are a consistent size and won't settle in the measure when you tap on it.  I'd never mess with 777 again and am only keeping it around because I have 2 rifles (loaners/backups) that I'm not planning to convert.

I got the full plastic jackets so I don't need to mess with a capper.  I just drop it in and lock the bolt.  and to uncap I just open the bolt and dump the primer/jacket into my hand.  I don't have to pry an unfired cap off the nipple with a finger nail or knife. The plastic jacket keeps the 209 primer locked inside; no bits of #11 cap exploding near my face.  Firing pin and spring is also pretty clean after shooting because the flash hole stays covered.  But above all, I believe the 209 has more power to set off the charge.  While #11 can be pretty reliable, I have had them fail.. because the nipple got dull, or whatever. Because of the BH 209 I love the conversion and would do it again.  :twocents:
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 07:48:01 PM by kerrdog »

 

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