Slob shooters spoiling it for all of us

[Dave Workman]

The Seattle Gun Rights Examiner takes aim at slob shooters over a recreational shooting closure in the national forest.
This you're probably gonna want to forward to everybody.


http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Careless-slobs-jeopardize-recreational-shooting-for-everyone


If that doesn't work, try this

http://tinyurl.com/moccx8

[jackelope]

these individuals are not simply black sheep, they are social lepers.

good line, Dave.

you fellas ought to put an article on this topic in the magazine...get as much publicity out for this problem as possible.

[Wacenturion]

Just like everything else in this country.....just not enough penalty to wake, as you put it...."Social Lepers" up,  irregardless of crimes, even when caught.  Sad...

[Kain]

No penalty and more important no enforcement.  It is sad but the only people that will follow the ban are the ones who were responsible shooters in the first place.  There are "no shooting" signs all over around Larch mountain and I still see new garbage all shot up.  The shooting ban doesn't work because there is no enforcement anyways.  They need to catch these guys and the punishment should be months of community service cleaning up public lands.

[Machias]

In Missouri (I know, I know another Missouri story    )   In the 70s they decided they wanted public land available for hunting and fishing within a 15 minute drive of all Mo residents.  They passed a 1/6th cent sales tax that went to the Missouri Department of Conservation, the folks who run the hunting and fishing in Mo.  It is the envy of every Fish and Game Department in the US.  One of the things they did was build shooting ranges at BUNCHES of these public lands.  Proper ranges.  So folks have a place to go and shoot.  They are self policing but folks have a place to go and burn ammo.  The only time they are busy is the 2 weeks prior to rifle deer.   This state could sure use something similar...the 1/6th cent sales tax and the shooting ranges!!

[Sneaky]

Makes me sick what people will leave behind. Careless shooting/littering has closed off so many access opportunities to responsible hunters like powerline roads, weyerhauser, and other logging company land. Has anyone been up scott turner road lately and seen the mess? I could fill my pickup truck with shot-up garbage EVERY TIME I go up there shooting and I still wouldn't hardly make a dent in the mess. It makes me sick and I wish there was some better enforcement because we are all going to pay for irresponsible, careless people.

[MountainWalk338]

It's crazy that some folks think that red and green hulls brighten up an other wise dull landscape or log landing.

[bearpaw]

Thanks for the update Dave.......

Will a closure stop the vandalls???

From what I read in the story it sounds like what the slobs are doing is already against the law. So the end result is that law-abiding shooters lose and very likely slobs will still cause problems.

Obviously places to shoot on the westside are getting harder to find all the time. Is there any outdoor group that could talk to the forest about a designated shooting area in a safe location and possibly help maintain it. Just an idea......

[MountainWalk338]

I do know that over here, when the logger men get tired of it, they lock up the gates.  I don't think too many people hike behind gates with old tv's and other such garbage to go shoot. So in my case, yeah it works against violaters, but against law abiders as well.

[jackelope]

pretty much all of the markworth state forest is locked up now because of slobs...which makes good hunting ground but no more places to shoot anymore.

[bearpaw]

Sounds to me like a good project for a sporting group to work on with the forest. Any of you guys belong to one of the SCI chapters??? They are one of the best groups to get things done.

[Wacenturion]

In Missouri (I know, I know another Missouri story    )   In the 70s they decided they wanted public land available for hunting and fishing within a 15 minute drive of all Mo residents.  They passed a 1/6th cent sales tax that went to the Missouri Department of Conservation, the folks who run the hunting and fishing in Mo.  It is the envy of every Fish and Game Department in the US.  One of the things they did was build shooting ranges at BUNCHES of these public lands.  Proper ranges.  So folks have a place to go and shoot.  They are self policing but folks have a place to go and burn ammo.  The only time they are busy is the 2 weeks prior to rifle deer.   This state could sure use something similar...the 1/6th cent sales tax and the shooting ranges!!

It was tried and failed to pass during the late 80's/early 90's (don't remember the exact year).  It was titled Initiative 90, which would have done essentially the same thing as the Missouri bill did.  Unfortunately it didn't get enough support.

[bearpaw]

This topic of this thread is closely related to what is going on with this closure.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,29403.0.html

[Huntbear]

I know that the Yacolt Sportsman Club is working with Weyerhauser and doing garbage clean up and stuff, to keep the gates open on the Yacolt Burn during the hunting seasons.  They also monitor people inside the gates during hunting seasons.  They have a direct line to Security, and also with the County, for law enforcement.  It seems to be working well, and have thought about joining them, if for nothing else, to help out, since the Burn is where I grew up hunting deer, and it will always hold a special place for me.

My point is, if they can do it, and it started with a grass roots organization, then anyone can do it and use them as a model.

[BigGoonTuna]

In Missouri (I know, I know another Missouri story    )   In the 70s they decided they wanted public land available for hunting and fishing within a 15 minute drive of all Mo residents.  They passed a 1/6th cent sales tax that went to the Missouri Department of Conservation, the folks who run the hunting and fishing in Mo.  It is the envy of every Fish and Game Department in the US.  One of the things they did was build shooting ranges at BUNCHES of these public lands.  Proper ranges.  So folks have a place to go and shoot.  They are self policing but folks have a place to go and burn ammo.  The only time they are busy is the 2 weeks prior to rifle deer.   This state could sure use something similar...the 1/6th cent sales tax and the shooting ranges!!

the problem with this state is that tax would eventually be funneled into the general fund much like our fishing licenses.

[bearpaw]

 

Any new tax or tax increase makes me worried......I can not beleive it would stay at 1/6 and be used solely for gunranges.....

[Dave Workman]

Wacenturion wrote:

It was tried and failed to pass during the late 80's/early 90's (don't remember the exact year).  It was titled Initiative 90, which would have done essentially the same thing as the Missouri bill did.  Unfortunately it didn't get enough support.

Well, I can tell you pretty much why.
When a bunch from the old Game Department came to visit with us at Fishing & Hunting News to extol the virtues of this measure, they sat in the publisher's office and declared that the money would be used to enhance songbird habitat and provide opportunities to do a bunch of non-game stuff, create "watchable wildlife" opportunities, ad infinitum. All of the benefits of this program seemed to emphasize what would be done for the "dickie birds" and "dickie bird lovers" as one of our guys put it.
Pretty much an emphasis on non-consumptive use


There was nothing I can recall that alluded to:

putting 10,000 more elk out there and expanding the hunting opportunities
increasing the deer herds by 40,000 to 50,000 and expanding the hunting opportunities
Boosting hatchery production on steelhead and resident trout
boosting the pheasant, chukar and quail populations in Eastern Washington
introducing wild turkeys (seems to me that had to be done through very creative and clever management swaps and other smart thinking  )
enhancing waterfowl habitat and populations

ad infinitum.

Only when we started asking them about "What about boosting the elk and deer populations, increasing pheasant releases" and such that we got a rather tepid "Oh, well, sure, we'll be working on that, too" kind of reaction. It was almost as an afterthought that needed some prodding.

After they left, we sat around staring at one another and sort of asking "What the hell was THAT??!!!"

and it ultimately drifted to "Those guys are NUTS!" with a few expletives tossed in here and there

It was, I gotta tell you, one of the damnedest conversations I ever sat through.


I'm not saying this would not have been a good idea. It may have been a grand idea. But it was sold poorly to the user group that really should have embraced the plan. Instead we were given a presentation about how all that money would allow the department to essentially crap all over consumptive users and provide spending opportunities to a bunch of fur huggers.

Well, I think there is some feeling out in the hinterlands that happened anyway 

[PA BEN]

There's not to many places to shoot overhere. I have a place to shoot on State land the garbage got so bad they took truck loads off and burmed up the roads. These white trash people are going to screw us all.

[bearpaw]

Thanks for the inside scoop Dave, that's exactly what I figured.

Too many of our WDFW are more interested in pleasing the hugger crowd. I think shooters have a much better chance of getting a meaningful and lasting answer to the westside shooting range problem by getting groups like SCI NWTF or NRA to work out some kind of plan with the USFS or timber companies. If WDFW were involved in the planning I honestly do not see how the plan could remain focused on shooting sites. WDFW would want some other contingencies, they are unable to even keep fish hatcheries open.

I always figure it's hard to sell the vegetables if you don't plant the garden.

[boneaddict]

Exactly.

[Wacenturion]

"Well, I think there is some feeling out in the hinterlands that happened anyway"  Roll Eyes


Sure seems like it.....all those "watchable" wildlife things you mentioned happened without it.  Might add...and it happened at the expense of.....I'll let you fill in the blanks.  

[Dmanmastertracker]

  These aren't necessarily just shooters that are littering, I only target shoot at the range myself, but I know this is the case on lands I hunt that have a litter problem. A lot of the garbage is from tweakers, then you get kids going out there and shooting at it in a lot of cases, I've seen it where I hunt in more than one area. Another case of lack of enforcement where everyone loses.

[bearpaw]

Seems we're all on the same page on this one, I just wish for future's sake that some shooting ranges could be put in place for people to use on the westside.

[Alchase]

To late for some places, this was in the Seattle times this morning:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009408357_webtargetshooting01m.html

 

[bearpaw]

alchase thanks for adding the link, this really could grow into a serious issue with any forest supervisor having the ability to close forest areas. I think the national legislation proposed at the beginning of this thread addresses this issue, I just don't know if it can get somewhere in out liberal congress.

The political pendulum just keeps swinging farther and farther left. With Frankin in, the dems can ramrod just about anything they want.