collapse
Advertise on Hunting-Washington Double U Hunting Supply

Author Topic: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?  (Read 4982 times)

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« on: October 22, 2009, 10:54:12 AM »
Do you feel there is a significant difference in value between the lighter steel shot and the heavier 'hevi-metal' or tunsten, or any other shot? I keep reading up on this stuff and I am getting mixed reviews. I peppered ducks with bb's on monday, and I mean seriously peppered them a few times, only to watch them get up and fly away. Even sitting ducks, where you can see the pattern on the water, you know they were covered in them, they get knocked over, then get up and fly away. I'm starting to think that $25/box of 10 shells vs $25/box of 25 shells might be about the same overall cost on $hell per duck if the knock down and kill ratio is really higher on the Tungsten.

I really only want to hear from people who have used different shots enough to have a real opinion. I've read enough articles from people who only shot one box of the hevis, or never shot any and thought it was a fad.  Looking at the weight difference per bb on steel vs some of the other metals has me thinking.

I watched my buddy unload 3 1/2" BB's steel shot into a hen mallard last monday. It knocked her down hard, we thought she was done for. she shook it off, got up, and flew away. we thought for sure she was going to drop after 30 or 40 yards, we watched her fly into the horizon never to be seen again. I saw this duck get peppered HARD by these 3 1/2" BBs. what's going on here?? this is not a one time deal.


Offline Elliott

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 829
  • Location: Stanwood
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 11:00:52 AM »
I know that this most recent opener my buddy was shooting hevi shot 7 1/2 and i was shooting steel 4s and it took 3 shots for me to kill a goose dead and only 1 shot from the hevi shot to kill it dead... so you tell me?
“Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2009, 11:04:21 AM »
yeah i'm going to pick up at least one box for sure. I might make it my 'jump shoot' box initially just to make sure it's dead on and see what the results are, and then later migrate them into 'full time'.

but if we have a limit of 7 ducks, and we start killing everything we shoot on one shot, maybe even pulling some doubles, than that $25/box of 10 will start to even out pretty quick. might be able to pull a days limit + some geese or something with one box.

its still a little hard to stomach at that price, but if I find its worthwhile, i guess there is always the option of reloading (but if you look into the TSS stuff, I think I figured reloading my own was still about $2/shell).

Offline Elliott

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 829
  • Location: Stanwood
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 11:11:14 AM »
yeah my buddy (ducksdoom12) his dad has half oh his garage dedicated to reloading, they do all sorts of loads, tons for trap and others for hunting loads, i think he was saying he had to hand reload his hevi shot??? :dunno: you might want to ask him about it he could help you out if you have any questions about reloading.
“Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2009, 11:22:16 AM »
Thanks Elliot, would be great to see him post on this thread to help consolodate data.

I was just talking to my brother about this not 5 minutes ago and his argument was surface area... I was shooting with 3 1/2" 2shot, and my buddy 3 1/2" BBB, and I could see we were peppering these birds welll, but my brothers thought was well, if you're not hitting the head, you're not hitting the head. My thought is if 30 steel pellets hit a bird and stun it, will 30 heavier shots penetrate the bird and kill it? Then his response is... will those 30 shots destroy your meat? good points on both sides I htink.

Offline Elliott

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 829
  • Location: Stanwood
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2009, 11:24:35 AM »
yeah those are good points, how far away were you shooting from, cause i hit birds at about 40+ yards with my 4s and got them in the breast and into vitals with a single shot, yeah i told him to check the site, he is probably posting right now
“Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Offline ducksdoom12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 502
  • Location: Stanwood, WA
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2009, 11:35:01 AM »
first off DONT SHOOT DUCKS ON THE WATER  unless you have already wonded them and are trying to finish them off. it does not matter what you shoot they always seem the shake it off, i think because they have more to protect them when they are sitting on the water.

i reload hevi-shot 7 1/2s for over decoys and they kill the ducks harder then any steel 4s i have ever used. because they are hevier they have a greater down range energy and can penetrate the bird farther into the vitals.

steel is cheaper but if you are going to be patient and not sky bust and lead the bird enough they will die

for hevi-shot i would recomend 6's - 7 1/2s with a mod. choke over decoys they will preform as a steal 2-4 would and if you are shooting where u might get longer shots go with 4's because they will travel farther with more energy.

side note: make sure to pattern your gun with every choke you plan on using with every different load. some loads will put huge holes in your pattern and leave you wondering why you missed almost every time

and if you can, i would recomend reloading. it usually works out to about a 5-10 dollar savings for every 10 shells and you know you are getting a consitint amount of powder and shot.


i shoot 2 3/4 with 1 oz of shot. it patterns perfect with my gun and i usually outshoot the less diciplined guys who are shooting 3 1/2 inch bbs and bbbs

pm me if you have any more questions
vegetarian,n: North American word for bad hunter

heroism consistes of holding on one minute longer

if you wish for peace, be prepared for war

Offline Curly

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 17205
  • Location: Thurston County
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2009, 11:41:51 AM »
Yesterday I was researching reloading NiceShot.  It is a non-toxic alternative that has similar properties as lead.  You can use the same load data as lead except you have to use a little less powder.  Bottom line though, I decided it costs too much for the shot.  It ends up being about $2/ounce for the shot.  If the price were about half of what it currently is, I'd probably try it.  http://www.niceshotinc.com

It sounds like that 3 1/2" load of BB's had some holes in the pattern.  Did your buddy pattern the load?
May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

><((((º>` ><((((º>. ><((((º>.¸><((((º>

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2009, 11:51:43 AM »
I'm not sure if he had patterned it or not. and I have not patterned the #2's off the choke I was using. I knew it patterned well with BB's, forgot to pattern on the #2's. could be a big difference right there.

Ducksdoom- where do you get your reloading materials? what do you figure your average cost per shell is?

Offline road.kill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 231
  • Location: Skagit County
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2009, 01:15:03 PM »
Getting into reloading typically has a large cost up front for savings down the road

The more you shoot, the more you save. If i were to shoot 2 boxes of the stuff per year I wouldnt invest in reloading components but thats just my 2 cents.

If you are going to start reloaidng shotshells I strongly recommend getting the Lymans reloading manual. It has tons of load data for different powders and types of shot and different guages as well. Mine sits right on my reloading bench

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 02:57:22 PM »
thanks buddy. the expensive and depressing part is I could see shooting 2 boxes of this stuff every weekend during season!

Offline General Disarray

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 394
  • Location: Selah
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 03:26:03 PM »
my  :twocents:,

Don't shoot BB's at ducks... if they're in range(20-40 yards) any good load of steel in 3's, 4's or 6's will kill them.  BB's don't put enough pellets into your pattern.  You need around 4 pellets in a vital area to make that duck fall dead.  I shoot steel 2-3/4 4's and 6's with great results over decoys.

I would try smaller shot or getting closer to them.
hey, where's Professor Chaos? Anyone seen him?

This post will be deleted in 5, 4, 3, 2....

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 03:41:32 PM »
interesting take, thanks for your feedback. I was using 2shot, my buddy was using those BBs (or BBB i think). i don't know why he falls back on those trip B's by default, but I thought the 2 shot was a nice spread. Again, thats the pattern I haven't tried yet on my choke so I"ll run some 4s, maybe 6s, and those 2s as well and see what i get. thanks for the feedback-

Offline h2ofowlr

  • CHOKED UP TIGHT
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 7922
  • Location: In the "Blind"! Go Cougs!
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 08:25:18 PM »
Many of the heavier shells like tungsten and Hevi Shot have the density or great than that of lead, but lack the deforming characteristics of lead unless pellets that look like snowman count.  Lead is typically at a density scale of 11.  Hevi Shot is at a 12.  Most steel shot is around a 6.  I believe the hevi steel was around an 8 density wise.  When we used to shoot lead shells in my early days we shot 2 for geese and 4 or 5 for ducks.  When the 10 gauge came out it was copper plated lead BB mag loads which could dirt a goose almost out to 100 yards or so it seemed.  I do see a big difference in the various loads at further ranges.  The denser metals carry further with greater lbs per sq inch.  If your shooting ducks under 30 yards there really isn't a difference, so I would save the money.
Cut em!
It's not the shells!  It's the shooter!

Offline ducksdoom12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 502
  • Location: Stanwood, WA
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 09:04:33 PM »
Ducksdoom- where do you get your reloading materials? what do you figure your average cost per shell is?
usually where ever i can find the stuff :dunno: wholesale sports or kesselrings usually. or you can check out balistic products on the web, they have some good stuff too. and some good books
vegetarian,n: North American word for bad hunter

heroism consistes of holding on one minute longer

if you wish for peace, be prepared for war

Offline adam.WI

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 349
  • Location: If online, not where I'd like to be
  • the pup
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 09:18:40 PM »
first-ducks on the water, my thoughts are all the pellets skip off and knock the others out of the kill zone. try aimimg high when you have to finish them off, it works

second-I have not shot enough of the hevi shot type loads to say I'm an expert but will say that I think it does just what they say, but is that needed is my question. I kill most the ducks I shoot at with steel. I don't wait til they have there wings set and I will shoot at passing ducks. My criteria is that I'm shooting at the breast straight on or they are damn close.

If you're in an area that you can't be really choosy on shots then I would say it is worth the extra money, just to be sure you put them down hard.

Offline Dustin07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1763
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 08:36:30 AM »
adam, what is your preferred duck shot shell? (size,weight, shot, )?

thanks for your feedback everyone. definitely giving me food for thought.

Offline adam.WI

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 349
  • Location: If online, not where I'd like to be
  • the pup
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 02:42:06 PM »
I usually rock a 3" 1 or 2 shot, and probably 1 1/4 oz. Winchester is typically the brand of choice, cheap and never had a dud.

Offline h2ofowlr

  • CHOKED UP TIGHT
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 7922
  • Location: In the "Blind"! Go Cougs!
Re: 1 shot 1 kill? Steel VS Tungsten? Reload VS Factory?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 03:15:46 PM »
first-ducks on the water, my thoughts are all the pellets skip off and knock the others out of the kill zone. try aimimg high when you have to finish them off, it works



If your running a swatter load to kill a cripple I always aim low at the duck if it's on the water as I see a lot of the guns are 80/20 pattern.  Meaning 80% of the pattern is above or at bead level and 20% of the pattern is bellow.  Most O/U are set up this way or similar for rising birds.  Also pellets ricoche off the water, so you will pattern them better if you aim low when they are on the water.  I would advise against aiming high unless they are past the 35 yard mark.
Cut em!
It's not the shells!  It's the shooter!

 

* Recent Topics