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Author Topic: Wolves in Turnbull?  (Read 9170 times)

Offline littletoes

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Wolves in Turnbull?
« on: September 17, 2007, 07:38:43 AM »
Here's a controversial topic....

I've been hearing rumors of the release of a breeding pair of wolves in the Turnbull Preserve. Is that crazy or what?

Who in thier right mind would, could imagine that wolves would even stay there???

If we needed to control the elk population, then lets have a raffle or two, not introduce predators around an area where we have high numbers of cattle ranches, THATS CRAZY!

Even our game departments are wondering if thier decisions were the right ones with the release of wolves in other areas of our country, but an area such as that, that is so heavily populated, just doesn't make any kind of sense.

You know, we ALL know that there are hundreds of thousands of people that idalize the wolf. In some simple, crazy way they imagine themselves as part wolf, at least in thought or something.....I don't know. And possibly they have the thrill of knowing that wolves are again existing in the lower 48, but those same folks feel that way, as they live in their warm homes, eating thier prepared food....I don't get it much. I think they need to start thinking like the "HUMANS" that they are, regardless if they like it or not. Time to grow up.

Anybody remember the story of the two or three year old that was hiking in the woods and got lost? They found the last of his tracks covered by a cougars tracks...and that was the end of him.

These animals are predators, and eat meat. ONLY MEAT.
Not vegetables like you and me, not grass, not sugary treats....MEAT, and "WE" are made of meat. Hell, we are even easy to catch and kill, especially our young. You want wolves in your backyard?? They're putting them in mine.....
"The People of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline high country

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 07:58:23 AM »
one step over the line and it becomes a "big coyote"........if you get my drift. the only good that could come of it would be getting the elk riled up and shoving them off the refuge for a little shooting.

Offline elkaholic

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 08:09:37 AM »
Those wolves will not stay on Turnbull for long, they will be down in Cheney enjoying easy prey from peoples yards....

Offline littletoes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 08:26:02 AM »
The following is a long letter printed in Predator Extreme Magazine under a column by Judd Cooney, and it says a lot.....

"Norm from California (where he has helped destroy the environment and there are no wolves) is woefully misinformed about wolves. Here are some hard facts about wolves in Wyoming from a professional who sees them and deals with their presence on a daily basis;
  The wolves reintroduced here in 1995 are NOT true wolves. They are hybrid dogs/wolf/huskey and are nothing like the gray wolves that originally inhabited Wyoming. They come from an ecosystem populated by massive herds of migrating caribou, not static herds of elk, cows and sheep. They are larger and have a different social structure than our orginal gray wolves.

The US Fish & Wildlife Service (USFW), the US Parks & Recreation Service and the National Park Service routinely misrepresent the facts surrounding "endangered species." A couple of years ago, the USFW sedated and relocated some wolves. They dropped them by helicopter in early spring to a place just a few hundred yards from a rancher's calving pastures.

When the original gray wolves inhabited this area they had millions of bison to pursue. The decimation of the buffalo herds drove the wolves into conflict with man and his herds of sheep and cattle. Today the only herd animals with a population large enough to support the federal wolf plan are elk, cattle and sheep. However, the wolves are also killing large number of big horn sheep and deer, rapidly reducing the herds. This predation on ungulate herds is alarming enough that the government is now forced to admit that the orginal wolf plan was incomplete and inaccurate in its assessment of wolf impact on the ecosystem.
Wolves routinely kill cow elk and eat nothing but the udders. Sometimes they eat nothing at all. Thats bad for the elk, but a spectacular benefit to the booming grizzly population that feeds on the rotted caracasses. Grizzlies themselves kill a number of telk every year and mountain lions pitch in on the ungulate herds as well.

I would hate to mimic the wolves' social stucture. I hope Norm is the alpha male on his block so he gets to eat regularly and breed now and then, while the neighbors work their tails off to feed his kids. And, if they get out of line, it is completely okay to just kill the neighbors.

Like all of man's arrogant tinkering with otherwise healthy ecosystems, the wolf reintroduction will have an impact that lasts for decades, if not centuries. If left un-managed, as I am sure Norm would support, wolf populations will continue to grow unchecked. Ungulate herds will continue to dwindle to the point of mear regional extinction. Wolf populations will be forced to migrate to agricultural areas. Lack of steady food sources will create a death spiral of desease and starvation in wolf populations. Ungulate herds, if they survive, will begin to recover and the cycle starts again. This cycle is decades in length and never ending.

Many people such as Norm believe that their pet "noble" predator has certain inalienable rights that supersede those of other species. Yet I don't see any of them exiting the planet in recognition of the rights of the wolf. They believe that through some imaginied intellectual superiority over us dumb hick Westerners, they and only they know what is best. To prove that they are the protector of the ecosystem, they build million-dollar summer homes on 10-acre plots. They buy a full suit of cowboy clothes and a diesel pickup, and bang around the fire roads "protecting" their wolves and our enviroment.

The chickens are beginning to come home to roost on the wolf reintroduction in the West. Over the next 10 years we will see what a true disaster it is. The recent delisting will help, but with the uncontrolled wolf populations remaining under federal protection in the Rocky Mountain elk factory, expect to see those herds continued to decline.

Wolves are interesting creatures and certainly have a place in the ecosystem, but not as an uncontrolled member of an otherwise tightly regulated system.
Man is here to stay. Nobody is going to kill themselves to make room for the wolf. Not even Norm. Nobody is going to issue an order to evacuate the Rocky Mountains to make room for free-operating, prehistoric ecosystems.
Predator and prey alike must be closely monitored and when necessary, actions taken to increase or decrease predator populations.  If Norm and his ilk want to turn Wyoming into the world's largest petting zoo, they are going to have to snap to some reality. Wolves have to eat and someday, sooner than he thinks, we will run out of elk to feed them.

The only good news is that this whole romance with protected predator species has those same predators consuming Californians at an ever-growing rate. I invite anyone who belives that large carnivores are endangered in Wyoming to tie a pork chop around his neck and go for a hike. Please do surrender yourself to the superior rights of (your favorite pet species here.)
Sincerely, Mike.

Very, very well Said!
"The People of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline tlbradford

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 10:47:49 AM »
I hope the radio collar has an address on it so I can send it back to Fish and Game.
Dreams are forever on the mind, realization in the hands.

sisu

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 03:44:50 PM »
The Three S Rule applies as does a fast flowing body of water for any electronics.

Offline Bridger

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 05:39:08 PM »
I live 2 miles form the refuge and do not need this problem in my horse pasture.If any one thinks they will stay inside the fence at turnbull they have their head up their  :ass: as of this morning we had elk bugling at the end of our road.I would like to keep the elk and ship the wolves to Bellevue
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Offline bigpaw

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 07:34:50 PM »
my dad lives by turnbull and I know he would be upset if a wolf killed his llama or alpaca. I know I will be keeping a keen eye over my sheep pasture.
WA. game and fish is a joke

Offline Cougeyes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 10:41:16 PM »
Where's the article that says this is true?  Or is this still just a rumor that seems to have everyone pissed.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 10:28:04 AM »

Quote
Where's the article that says this is true? 


Quote
I've been hearing rumors of the release of a breeding pair of wolves in the Turnbull Preserve.

looks like a rumor. but don't be surprised when there is solid proof. they are in more places than people think.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003812476_wolves30m.html
:fire.:

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Offline Cougeyes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 02:04:36 PM »
I dont think there will be any kind of release in this state.  They will let wolves colonize by themselves without human help.  They are already in the state and probably have been for some time. 

Offline littletoes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2007, 10:44:31 PM »
Well, if they arn't "Here", then they arn't protected. Nor are they listed as a game animal.....well then doesn't that mean that they are fair game then???


And I sure didn't mean to start any rumors, 'cause it sure doesn't make any sense to me....in fact it sounds plain crazy! But I've been to two differant places where I've happened upon folks talking about it, but nobody can say where they have heard it!

As said, its taken our grandfathers a bunch of years to get rid of them....and some dumb ya-hoo's go and bring 'em back....
"The People of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2007, 06:33:12 AM »
I dont think there will be any kind of release in this state.  They will let wolves colonize by themselves without human help.  They are already in the state and probably have been for some time. 

Not true. They have been released on the OP in the past.




Offline jackelope

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 11:29:02 AM »
Quote
Well, if they arn't "Here", then they arn't protected. Nor are they listed as a game animal.....well then doesn't that mean that they are fair game then???

federraly protected endangered species? pretty sure that makes it illegal to shoot them regardless of where they are.
i'm no expert though.

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Offline littletoes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 08:56:02 PM »
The wolves reintroduced here in 1995 are NOT true wolves. They are hybrid dogs/wolf/huskey and are nothing like the gray wolves that originally inhabited Wyoming.

So, heres another question....if, with blood tests you prove that these introduced animals are in fact "fakes", what kind of liability are/is the Federal Guv-ment setting up?

And can't you also prove that these are indeed NOT Federaly Protected animals, you know, if not REALY grey wolves???
Just an imitation to make the "Wolf Crazy People" somthing to coo about?
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Offline Alchase

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2007, 12:26:46 PM »
About ten years ago while elk hunting in the French Cabin Basin area, I came across-ed some bear tracks that were obviously not black bear tracks. A local hunter said they saw a grizzly sow with cubs in the basin the previous week. I drive to the ranger station in Cle Elem and asked the Ranger about what I had learned. In a very guarded conversation he acknowledged the breeding pairs had been reintroduced in a few locations. I asked him if that had caused any problems, considering it was just a few miles as a bird flies to I-90 and a substantial population? He laughed it off that most people do not believe their own eyes. He also mentioned that a not well publicized release of grey wolves had been going on since the early 1990s in many of their original locations. At the time I was thinking about the grizzlies not the wolves. He even mentioned that the wolves had been there awhile yet they got very few reports of sightings. A friend of mine swears he saw a pair of grizzlies on the west side of French Cabin Basin (the lake side) during the same year archery season.
It would be interesting if this could be backed up with more then word of mouth.
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Offline littletoes

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Re: Wolves in Turnbull?
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2007, 09:15:34 PM »
Its funny you mention that, theres a spot between Calispel and Sacheen Lake that a couple folks will argue that there is a couple of wolves around, but I've never seen them. I do occasionaly hunt 'yotes though, and will mention the sighting of anything a big larger than normal.
"The People of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

 

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