Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: gr8whthunter on March 20, 2017, 11:08:29 AM

Title: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: gr8whthunter on March 20, 2017, 11:08:29 AM
Some advice with waterfowl, I work for a heavy equipment company that contracts out to local mills, now say the company that we contract to they deem geese "unsafe" because workers may slip on their poop.. yea their poo... which employees don't go anywhere near where these geese are.... so they shoot them it's out of season and currently mating season for them or they're gunna be having eggs here soon so my question... what should a person do? Mind their business and just say whatever or say something or call it in? Personally it pisses me off they do this because of well it's not in season I can't do it so they shouldn't and for preservation they just shoot and waste the meet as well
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: JDHasty on March 20, 2017, 11:13:41 AM
My dad's golf club had a woman out walking in the morning slip on goose crap and slide 50 feet into a water hazard and she could not get out because it was so slippery and she nearly bit the dust right there.  I suggested some dead goose decoys to him and they bought some and that was the last of their problems with geese
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: CP on March 20, 2017, 11:16:35 AM
Turn them in:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/reporting_violations.html

Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: seth30 on March 20, 2017, 11:21:55 AM
Turn them in:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/reporting_violations.html
:yeah:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 20, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
I'm pretty sure a private company cannot make that kind of decision, and, act on it (legally) w/o contacting WDFW.  How about a private logging company on state or USFS land deciding to shoot some elk because they were dropping spring elk pies on a right of way road job (forcing some timber fallers to slip in the gooey mess); don't think so.  There's really no way to sugar coat or tip toe around an illegal act; the right thing to do is probably either raise the issue to WDFW, or, at a minimum approach somebody from the company and let them know what they're doing is illegal and could carry a very large fine if caught.   
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Gringo31 on March 20, 2017, 11:39:25 AM
You can report anonymously.

The way I understand it is that there is no $ available for waterfowl damage, only big game.  You/they have to work within the system of addressing any issues.  I don't know of a case where a private company was given the green light to go ahead and start shooting them.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: CP on March 20, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
It's a Federal crime as well.  Report them to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service just for good measure.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
911 N.E. 11th Avenue
Portland, Oregon 97232-4181
Telephone: 503/231-6125

Get some video or pictures, that always helps.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Mfowl on March 20, 2017, 12:16:17 PM
A company I used to work for annually had problem geese terminated. I don't know the process for getting it done but they hired a USDA sniper to do it. They  also used heavy equipment and the sniper would use various machines to shoot from in an effort to make the geese associate the machines with danger. Didn't work there long enough to say it was effective though. The company you mention probably could go another route if they wanted to. Just taking the easy way instead.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on March 20, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
You really need to ask if this is wrong?  Call wdfw right now and report them.  I really hope you didn't sit by and watch this happen.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: gr8whthunter on March 20, 2017, 12:38:13 PM
Didn't sit by and watch this happen, I guess they do it yearly and last year I started st this company soon after they did that so it should be happening soon and me as a hunter or sportsman I highly doubt I will be able to sit by and just watch as this happens
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: chester on March 20, 2017, 01:11:55 PM
They may be permitted. Resident geese are usually viewed as a nuisance by the state.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Rainier10 on March 20, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
I would report it and ask for a follow up to find out if it is permitted or if they are breaking the law.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on March 20, 2017, 01:31:16 PM
Employer killing out of season

I have wanted to kill my employer at times in the past. Did not know there was an open season on employers. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Turn in the poachers.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 21, 2017, 07:11:22 AM
Ask yourself if you think what they're doing is right? Most would say you're morally/ethically obligated to either turn them in or confront them about it. Another option might be to ask a game warden, hypothetically, what someone can do if they're having problems with geese creating a hazardous work environment and then give the information to the management. It's a tough call, especially when your livelihood depends on their success.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: jackelope on March 21, 2017, 07:18:04 AM
Is it possible the company or property owner has a permit or the legal ability to do this?
Geese can be a huge problem.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Tbar on March 21, 2017, 07:29:10 AM
It's a Federal crime as well.  Report them to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service just for good measure.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
911 N.E. 11th Avenue
Portland, Oregon 97232-4181
Telephone: 503/231-6125

Get some video or pictures, that always helps.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Rainier10 on March 21, 2017, 08:50:40 AM
My internet advise is this...and we all know what internet advise is worth.

Think very hard about what you are contemplating doing.  Ask yourself this, if "I report this and they find out it was me, is it worth my job"?  Make no doubt about it, you will lose your job if they figure out you reported them especially if you didn't address your concerns to your employer first.  The hazard might have been communicated to you as "slippery goose poop", and that may or may not be the real reason.  The real reason might be much more reasonable and make sense, you just aren't necessarily asking the right people or high enough up the food chain to get the right answer.  I think you'll find that any land owner, especially a mill owner or business, is given a considerable amount of latitude to manage their property and the game on that property. You might find out the local game official signed off on this.
:yeah:

The more I think about this the more I think it might be possible that they have some sort of kill permit.

I think I would ask whoever is doing the shooting if there is some sort of special permit that they are given to eradicate the nuisance geese.  Depending on that answer you can decide what to do from there.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: frazierw on March 21, 2017, 08:53:14 AM
My internet advise is this...and we all know what internet advise is worth.

Think very hard about what you are contemplating doing.  Ask yourself this, if "I report this and they find out it was me, is it worth my job"?  Make no doubt about it, you will lose your job if they figure out you reported them especially if you didn't address your concerns to your employer first.  The hazard might have been communicated to you as "slippery goose poop", and that may or may not be the real reason.  The real reason might be much more reasonable and make sense, you just aren't necessarily asking the right people or high enough up the food chain to get the right answer.  I think you'll find that any land owner, especially a mill owner or business, is given a considerable amount of latitude to manage their property and the game on that property. You might find out the local game official signed off on this.
:yeah:




The more I think about this the more I think it might be possible that they have some sort of kill permit.

I think I would ask whoever is doing the shooting if there is some sort of special permit that they are given to eradicate the nuisance geese.  Depending on that answer you can decide what to do from there.
I work at a golf course in the summer and we have a terrible problem with geese.  We called F&G to and they wanted us to call a "Specialist" they would not let us eradicate them on our own.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: ctwiggs1 on March 21, 2017, 08:53:42 AM
Get your 10 points man!
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: chester on March 21, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
Get your 10 points man!
No points for geese
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 21, 2017, 09:04:24 AM

Shoot a few yourself and you might get a raise and promotion.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on March 21, 2017, 10:11:55 AM
My internet advise is this...and we all know what internet advise is worth.

Think very hard about what you are contemplating doing.  Ask yourself this, if "I report this and they find out it was me, is it worth my job"?  Make no doubt about it, you will lose your job if they figure out you reported them especially if you didn't address your concerns to your employer first.  The hazard might have been communicated to you as "slippery goose poop", and that may or may not be the real reason.  The real reason might be much more reasonable and make sense, you just aren't necessarily asking the right people or high enough up the food chain to get the right answer.  I think you'll find that any land owner, especially a mill owner or business, is given a considerable amount of latitude to manage their property and the game on that property. You might find out the local game official signed off on this.
:yeah:

The more I think about this the more I think it might be possible that they have some sort of kill permit.

I think I would ask whoever is doing the shooting if there is some sort of special permit that they are given to eradicate the nuisance geese.  Depending on that answer you can decide what to do from there.

The more talkng to and questions you ask them, the easier it is going to be for them to figure out who turned them in if you decide to.  At that point, whether they are in the right or not, you probably will be gone...

My version of internet advise for a situation like this is avoid doing what you have just done on the internet all together, either contact WDFW directly and express your concerns or ignore it and get on with your day...
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Humptulips on March 21, 2017, 11:02:28 AM
Is it possible the company or property owner has a permit or the legal ability to do this?
Geese can be a huge problem.

I am pretty sure you cannot get a kill permit for Migratory waterfowl. Even Wildlife Control operators are not allowed to touch them. If it is truly a problem USDA can do it but not private parties.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Evil_EdwardO on March 21, 2017, 11:50:07 AM
From the WDFW site:

Lethal Control

    If the above nonlethal control efforts are unsuccessful and the damage situation persists, lethal control may be an option. Lethal control techniques include legal hunting, shooting out of season by permit, egg destruction by permit, and euthanasia of adults by government officials.

Legal Status

    Canada geese are protected under federal and state law and a hunting license and open season are required to hunt them. Where lethal control of Canada geese is necessary outside of hunting seasons, it should be carried out only after the above nonlethal control techniques have proven unsuccessful and only under permits issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Currently, the only agency permitted for lethal removal is the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Wildlife Services.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: gr8whthunter on March 21, 2017, 09:26:42 PM
Now I have worked for this company before (the company contracting my current employer) and I was in upper management there, and I know or at least highly doubt they are doing this by the book or with any legal means by how everyone in the office jokes about it when we go into the main office for a safety meeting, I've read some good advice from you guys on here and I guess when it comes time to where they start eradicating the geese and waterfowl from the ponds I will make my decision but based on how much it angers me just thinking about it as a sportsmen or outdoorsmen I think it will turn to a phone call to wdfw
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 22, 2017, 06:20:37 AM
Didn't sit by and watch this happen, I guess they do it yearly and last year I started st this company soon after they did that so it should be happening soon and me as a hunter or sportsman I highly doubt I will be able to sit by and just watch as this happens
Have you spoken to your boss about this? That might be another option. I hate poachers and I would turn them in if I caught them. But, I've never been forced to choose between my job and my ethics. Unless we've actually been in that situation, we have no idea what our response would be. Don't get your chest all pumped up based on what you read in this thread. None of us are walking in your shoes right now.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: lamrith on March 22, 2017, 06:32:56 AM
My internet advise is this...and we all know what internet advise is worth.

Think very hard about what you are contemplating doing.  Ask yourself this, if "I report this and they find out it was me, is it worth my job"?  Make no doubt about it, you will lose your job if they figure out you reported them especially if you didn't address your concerns to your employer first.  The hazard might have been communicated to you as "slippery goose poop", and that may or may not be the real reason.  The real reason might be much more reasonable and make sense, you just aren't necessarily asking the right people or high enough up the food chain to get the right answer.  I think you'll find that any land owner, especially a mill owner or business, is given a considerable amount of latitude to manage their property and the game on that property. You might find out the local game official signed off on this.
Double edged sword though, if he DOES ask about it then he has the target on his back if he realizes they are not legal and turns them in and wdfw does something.  If they are legal and the local officer signed off on it, He can find out the same thing by making a phone call to wdfw, no reason not to call if the Co is being legal about it and that way his anonymity and job are protected.
Sure it is great to give employer benefit of the doubt, and to ask within before you go outside to authorities.  But anyone that thinks a Co will not terminate a potential problem worker because they asked a question like that is delusional.  And good luck proving they terminated you because of it, WA is at will state, they can say he was 0:00:30s late to work one day or that he drives a blue truck as resaon for termination.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: gr8whthunter on March 22, 2017, 07:12:47 AM
Didn't sit by and watch this happen, I guess they do it yearly and last year I started st this company soon after they did that so it should be happening soon and me as a hunter or sportsman I highly doubt I will be able to sit by and just watch as this happens
Have you spoken to your boss about this? That might be another option. I hate poachers and I would turn them in if I caught them. But, I've never been forced to choose between my job and my ethics. Unless we've actually been in that situation, we have no idea what our response would be. Don't get your chest all pumped up based on what you read in this thread. None of us are walking in your shoes right now.

I have seen my employers reaction to this when they were all talking about it and they think it's funny So by that I'm guessing they don't have a care in the world about it, my employer and parts of the companies management just think it's a funny histarical thing that happens
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Gringo31 on March 22, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
So what have you decided to do?
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: gr8whthunter on March 22, 2017, 08:04:47 AM
They haven't done it yet this season but like they have said it's a yearly things so they're going to and I think me as a person I have to, it's wrong and me as a person the person I am I can't sit back and be ok with that, like my dad and grandfather use to say, at the end of the day all you have is yourself
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: boneaddict on March 22, 2017, 08:20:45 AM
Then to find out they legally could do it......

Or even if they are illegally doing it, it still can be done if you jump through all the damn hoops, and the bottom line is.... a dead goose.   

Kinda like burning the pile in my yard.   It just became harder for me to go buy the permit to do it legally.   To,do it legally it costs 50 bucks, and is a big hassle...or I could just light it and hope one of my neighbors doesn't report me.   Bottom line, pile burned and my home is safer for fire season.

Does the state get another 50 and my afternoon? 
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: bigtex on March 22, 2017, 08:42:20 AM
Didn't sit by and watch this happen, I guess they do it yearly and last year I started st this company soon after they did that so it should be happening soon and me as a hunter or sportsman I highly doubt I will be able to sit by and just watch as this happens
Have you spoken to your boss about this? That might be another option. I hate poachers and I would turn them in if I caught them. But, I've never been forced to choose between my job and my ethics. Unless we've actually been in that situation, we have no idea what our response would be. Don't get your chest all pumped up based on what you read in this thread. None of us are walking in your shoes right now.
I have seen my employers reaction to this when they were all talking about it and they think it's funny So by that I'm guessing they don't have a care in the world about it, my employer and parts of the companies management just think it's a funny histarical thing that happens
Then I would definitely report them.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Humptulips on March 22, 2017, 08:54:42 AM
I think I would talk to a game agent before the fact. Maybe they could go and have a talk with them and warn them they are being watched.
Keeps the geese from getting shot and saves someone from committing a crime. Probably reflect better on you if it comes out who the "snitch" is which I think will happen given you have put this in the public domain.
At least that is what I think I would do.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on March 22, 2017, 09:23:51 AM
Also, do a little research on the whistle blower protection laws.  You may be protected from retailation by your employer. 
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: hdshot on March 22, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
Now I have worked for this company before (the company contracting my current employer) and I was in upper management there, and I know or at least highly doubt they are doing this by the book or with any legal means by how everyone in the office jokes about it when we go into the main office for a safety meeting, I've read some good advice from you guys on here and I guess when it comes time to where they start eradicating the geese and waterfowl from the ponds I will make my decision but based on how much it angers me just thinking about it as a sportsmen or outdoorsmen I think it will turn to a phone call to wdfw

I wouldn't worry to much about it one way or another.  I know a guy who is in a big group of hunters and they absolutely slaughter the geese with everyone having some sort of access to good private land.  Legal yes, but ask yourself what can you do with over 2500 ducks and geese bagged in one season when your guy doesn't want these messy critters around.  At my work other employees feed the geese but I don't care one way or another either.  But there are many non-lethal methods such as lasers to concussion explosions to harass the geese away and that's something I would do internet searches on and present in meetings.     
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Bill W on March 22, 2017, 09:29:03 AM
Before you go off the deep end check with the local WDFW agent and find out what he knows.  He may have a bit more of the story and also know if the feds have issued permits.

Boeing would "remove" geese from time to time.  Nothing worse than going to another building for a meeting and meeting the attack geese in front of the door.  It's when they nest close to sidewalks and entrances that it really becomes a problem.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 22, 2017, 10:07:50 AM
They haven't done it yet this season but like they have said it's a yearly things so they're going to and I think me as a person I have to, it's wrong and me as a person the person I am I can't sit back and be ok with that, like my dad and grandfather use to say, at the end of the day all you have is yourself

It sounds like you already have answered your own question. Good for you!  :tup:
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Mike Wolsky on March 23, 2017, 12:27:24 PM
I work at a place that legally has well over 100 killed each spring. They contract USDA to do the removal. The "sniper" bounces between Boeing and our campus. Shoots them in the middle of day! Pretty crazy...

WDFW wasn't willing to do anything about it and pointed us to USDA. They had to stop shooting them on Oct 1 because they were then classified as "migratory". I'm pretty sure mid March they become "residential" and it's open season again.

It is sad because the geese nest on the ponds and don't really know any better... it is what it is though.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Skyhigh on May 07, 2017, 10:52:16 AM
As mentioned above,It's a federal thing when it comes to killing migratory waterfowl rather than Wdfw thing.
Fyi, it wouldn't be to hard to figure out what company or who you are by the description you gave in your posts about what you do, who you do it for etc etc.
Title: Re: Employer killing out of season?
Post by: Firedogg on May 07, 2017, 11:20:46 AM
Report them.  If they have a permit it won't be an issue, perhaps someone might stop by to make sure they are following the terms of the permit. You can report anonymously, but if you are worried about them knowing it is you give someone else the info and let them report for you.

Want to really stir the pot? Give the local paper or TV news a tip.

Seems like if they haveva goise problem they would allow the flock to be thinned during open seasons.