Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 21, 2017, 07:48:46 PM

Title: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 21, 2017, 07:48:46 PM
Recieved a letter from WDFW today with a survey regarding Blacktail hunting in GMU 660..... it talked about "Trophy Blacktail" hunting being a priotity for the unit, and that fish and game wants to double the number of 4 point and better bucks harvested from the unit in the next 3 years. The survey asked which of the following options would be most acceptable and least acceptable. One option was to end the early buck season for rifle hunters 4 days early, another 7 days early. They also are considering making the unit a 3 point or better unit for general season. They also discussed making it a spike or 2 point only unit and making anything bigger by "Permit Only". As well as mentioning the possibility of making extended buck a permit only hunt. I'm about sick and tired of this stuff. As a local, there is a couple places to actually hunt in the area that you don't have to buy a weyco permit to hunt, and now they want to do this??  I wrote a strong letter of opposition and hope some of my fellow hunters do the same..... sounds like there may be a public meeting coming up next month on the issue  :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Have a good day.....
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: youngbull on August 21, 2017, 08:06:01 PM
I argued with the state biologist about this at the hunting expo. I cant see that producing any more trophies than normal in any unit. Limiting access will only help people who dont give a rip about their objectives.  I beleive most areas produce decent bucks if you put some time in.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 21, 2017, 08:16:06 PM
I argued with the state biologist about this at the hunting expo. I cant see that producing any more trophies than normal in any unit. Limiting access will only help people who dont give a rip about their objectives.  I beleive most areas produce decent bucks if you put some time in.
Precisely, all that new restrictions will do is reduce trophy buck harvest. The last week of october, and extended buck is when the big boys get stupid. Take that away and your chance of harvesting them goes down drastically. Not impossible but greatly reduced. I'd just really like to talk to the biologist who has come up with this and see who is pushing for this??
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 21, 2017, 08:32:28 PM
 :yeah:....... seems odd to single that unit out.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: JakeLand on August 21, 2017, 08:52:14 PM
Where is the 660 at ? I'm personally a blacktail junky I don't hunt any other deer ! I would " IF" anything would like it to become a pick either Eastside or westside for deer . No minimum on antler just east or west
The woods get pounded the last week when it's closed on the east side . That's the only change that I think would help our blacktail because then in my belief a lot of the younger bucks survive another year
My :twocents: Jakeland
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: steeleywhopper on August 21, 2017, 09:49:37 PM
Par for the course, limit harvest of deer just like they have abolished the harvest of steelhead in the North Sound rivers.  No fishing from a boat in area 8-1, 8-2, and 9, would not be surprised if they say no hunting with bullets next.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Eric M on August 22, 2017, 03:19:53 AM
Are they just basing this on the harvest reports? Seems like it's just a guess by them what's there and what isn't. 1st guy-More spikes get killed here than other size deer. Other guy- Should we make it spike only? 3rd guy-maybe only allow 3 point or better to be killed? 4th guy (managerial type)- We have to do something! Hunter- Maybe we don't look for trophies and we are only shooting meat bucks. Oh wait no one was listening. :dunno:
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: BigGoonTuna on August 22, 2017, 04:29:57 AM
i bet it's an idea floated by timber interests to increase permit sales, if i'm not mistaken that area is almost entirely locked up in the weyco twin harbors south unit?
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 22, 2017, 05:00:52 AM
i bet it's an idea floated by timber interests to increase permit sales, if i'm not mistaken that area is almost entirely locked up in the weyco twin harbors south unit?
You would be correct
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: SeatoSummit88 on August 22, 2017, 08:40:05 AM
Thanks for the share Rainstorm!  That's nuts! I hunt that unit and pay (like a lot of other hunters) a lot of freakin' money to get a Weyco Pass. I lived around that area for about 5 years and usually it seemed that there were only the select few lucky enough to get a "trophy 4 point".  They should understand that not only are there 600 permit holders, but also two surrounding units that hold the same size bucks.  It is very true that there are larger bucks everywhere; however with the large amount of pressure that unit and the couple surrounding get; it seems to be a spike and fork horn unit more so!  When I use to live down in Westport, the logging road gates were open constantly which lead to positive and negative outcomes.  It allowed ethical hunters to get out and scout more often outside the seasons; however it allowed unethical hunters to spotlight, harvest game at night and outside of general seasons.  If I pretend in my mind that they are looking to increase the BT population around that area and get hunters the ability to harvest bigger bucks, then I can see positive future. But then again, I open my eyes and see dollar bills falling off the reprod saplings all over the place. It would be nice to harvest "manageable bucks"; but then again we aren't in Kansas anymore Dorthy; and there isn't an Alfalfa field to our left, a Corn field to our right, a draw with maple trees thick as mud, acorns on the ground; and a perfect ground blind that has no hunters around the area.    WDFW, just give us sportsman something to look forward to!
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: PolarBear on August 22, 2017, 08:47:51 AM
660 isn't known for having lots of big bucks or even decent buck numbers.  It does better with elk.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: SeatoSummit88 on August 22, 2017, 09:25:51 AM
I agree PolarBear,

I saw a couple of does and a 2 point off the main highway, but heard a bull once out there on Saturday.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: WSU on August 22, 2017, 09:26:37 AM
I wonder if harvest of mature bucks is even a problem that needs addressing?  It seems to me that blacktails are hard enough to kill that escapement likely isn't a problem anyway.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: DRobnsn on August 22, 2017, 10:40:19 AM
I haven't been to 660 in a few years but doesn't it have a fair amount of timber that is close to being harvest able? Sure would suck to put in for a permit for a "trophy" area just to have them log the whole thing on you.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: pope on August 22, 2017, 05:59:40 PM
Where is the 660 at ? I'm personally a blacktail junky I don't hunt any other deer ! I would " IF" anything would like it to become a pick either Eastside or westside for deer . No minimum on antler just east or west
The woods get pounded the last week when it's closed on the east side . That's the only change that I think would help our blacktail because then in my belief a lot of the younger bucks survive another year
My :twocents: Jakeland

I would support this. Choose east or west for deer, just like elk. I suspect this would be incredibly unpopular. Fewer restrictions on predator hunting would help blacktail populations more than antler restrictions.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on August 28, 2017, 04:40:51 PM
I have hunted 660 for 20 years and to find a 4 pt or bigger is very hard I've been lucky enough to get 3 and a few large forks. He'll just finding bucks or deer in general anywhere in the unit is hard for most hunters. I spend alot of time scouting and finding pockets of deer. If wdfw does this I'm done hunting here, I'll go out of state more. I'm already spending $250 on a permit just to access the land and now they want to change the unit ton"trophy". 660 is basically all weyco land as it is. This state is getting worse and worse every year. Wow unbelievable
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bobcat on August 28, 2017, 06:32:34 PM
I got the questionnaire but have been busy and haven't had a chance to even read it yet. I'll fill it out and return it when I have more time to think about it. But I will say I don't think we should be so critical of the WDFW over this. I'm glad they're looking at ways to improve our blacktail deer populations. They have to start somewhere, and right now they're apparently taking the first step by asking for our opinions. I think it's great. I've often wondered if a 2 point minimum on blacktail deer could improve numbers. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: grundy53 on August 28, 2017, 06:42:47 PM
I wonder if harvest of mature bucks is even a problem that needs addressing?  It seems to me that blacktails are hard enough to kill that escapement likely isn't a problem anyway.
You're spot on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: JakeLand on August 28, 2017, 08:10:04 PM
I got the questionnaire but have been busy and haven't had a chance to even read it yet. I'll fill it out and return it when I have more time to think about it. But I will say I don't think we should be so critical of the WDFW over this. I'm glad they're looking at ways to improve our blacktail deer populations. They have to start somewhere, and right now they're apparently taking the first step by asking for our opinions. I think it's great. I've often wondered if a 2 point minimum on blacktail deer could improve numbers. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
ya a 2 point minimum might help! But I truly do think a east side or a westside deer tag would do better for blacktail then a 2 point minimum  :dunno:
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: fishnfur on August 28, 2017, 11:33:46 PM
660 - MINOT PEAK
                                                  Total               POINTS                    Hunter   Hunter   Hunter
Method       Antlerless   Antlered Havest    1     2   3   4   5+  Number Success  Days       Days/Kill


Archery                   17   6     23           6     0    0   0   0   103       22.4%   916           39.8
Modern Firearms       0      178     178         57       88   23   8   2   491       36.2%   2,673   15
Multiple Weapons   2   13      15          3     4     4    2   0     36       41.6%   267           17.8
Muzzleloader           0   2       2          2     0    0   0   0     18       11.2%   78           39
TOTALS                  19   199     218        68    92   27   10   2   n/a        n/a   n/a           n/a


I posted the 2016 harvest data above.  The whole thing makes me scratch my head.  As I've said before, I'm not very trusting of government agencies.  I always suspect they have a hidden agenda when they suggest things like this.   I don't hunt the unit, and probably never will, so I have no real worries if they proceed as planned, but  I just don't understand what they're trying to achieve by instituting antler restrictions here.

Back in the day, Big Timber used to enjoy having hunters reduce the herd because of the damage they inflicted on their crop trees.  Since Minot Peak is primarily owned by Weyco (and maybe 15% DNR), I would suspect that that company would be against any program that might reduce hunter numbers and thus increase their losses.  Alternatively, it may be that someone at Weyco made this suggestion to WDFW thinking that it might increase hunter interest in the unit and ultimately put more money in their pockets by way of trespass fees. (?)  Possibly, but not all that likely in my mind - only 550 hunters tried to kill a deer here - similar to many of the other "remote" units in the area.  I have no way of knowing if Weyco sold all their unit 660 permits in the past - but I would expect that antler restrictions would reduce hunter numbers.  :dunno:

I look at the stats for 672/Fall River, and I find that that unit had twice the number of 4 and 5 point bucks that Minot Peak did.  In my mind, it would make more sense for WDFW to pick an area with good genetics and good numbers of trophy bucks already in place if they wanted to install this type of program.  Unit 660 falls well into the middle of the pack when comparing the harvest numbers for bigger bucks.  I don't think that this unit fits the bill as the best pick for an area with quality bucks, so some other unseen force seems to be at work here, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.  Perhaps Eric Holman, the State's most informed BT biologist, or the district 17 biologist (Anthony Novack (360) 249-4628 Ext. 238 teammontesano@dfw.wa.gov) could shed some light on the issue.

Ultimately, it seems to me that making the unit a two-point or better unit is the best choice, along with the idea of choosing either a west side or east side hunt.  Having more mature bucks in the woods isn't going to make them any easier to kill.  The majority of the harvest will still be the younger legal bucks ('cause they ain't that smart).  If the timing of the rut doesn't have the big bucks stupid and moving like zombies during the times that deer hunters are in the woods, then those big bruisers are still going to be giving most of us the slip.

Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bobcat on August 29, 2017, 10:17:47 AM
If anyone has questions, this is from the second email I received regarding the GMU 660 questionnaire:

Quote
If you have questions about the survey, feel free to contact me,  Anthony Novack, District Wildlife Biologist for Grays Harbor and Pacific counties at 360-249-4628 ext 238 or, email Anthony.Novack@dfw.wa.gov

As to whether this GMU is the best choice for this change in management strategy and the fact that it may have less mature bucks taken than a neighboring unit (672) I suspect the lower number of bigger bucks could be due to it being closer to bigger cities (Aberdeen/ Olympia) and it possibly had more hunting pressure historically, along with very likely a lot of poaching. The unit has always been mostly un-gated but now is gated and only open to a limited number of people who buy the access pass from Weyerhaeuser. I think it very well could become a very high quality blacktail unit with the right management.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: singleshot12 on August 29, 2017, 10:25:03 AM
I have hunted 660 for 20 years and to find a 4 pt or bigger is very hard I've been lucky enough to get 3 and a few large forks. He'll just finding bucks or deer in general anywhere in the unit is hard for most hunters. I spend alot of time scouting and finding pockets of deer. If wdfw does this I'm done hunting here, I'll go out of state more. I'm already spending $250 on a permit just to access the land and now they want to change the unit ton"trophy". 660 is basically all weyco land as it is. This state is getting worse and worse every year. Wow unbelievable
:yeah:
Most blacktail bucks in most areas are genetically 2 or 3 points and that's all they will ever be :twocents:  This state chips away at our opportunity every chance it gets.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Practical Approach on August 29, 2017, 11:36:09 AM
1.  Black tail deer escapement for mature bucks is fairly high due to terrain.
2.  2/3 or more of the 660 unit is Weyerhaeuser fee access limited to permits thus limiting the number of hunters and further increasing escapement.
4.  Like others have said, black tailed deer are not all going to be 4 point bucks just because they get a little older.  Yes age has something to do with antler development, but so does genetics.

So,

Why recommend further restrictions on one westside GMU that is primarily restricted access and has higher than average escapement already?

Just seems like a strange recommendation.  Maybe I am missing something though.   :dunno:
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: lamrith on August 29, 2017, 01:27:44 PM
Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: grundy53 on August 29, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.
The amount of bucks that survive hunting season is the escapement.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: lamrith on August 29, 2017, 02:11:05 PM
Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.
The amount of bucks that survive hunting season is the escapement.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Thanks Grundy, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Harbor_hunter on September 19, 2017, 08:53:43 AM
Looks like there will be a meeting with the district biologist on this topic Monday, Oct. 2nd at 6:30 at the Elma grange if anyone is interested in attending. 
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on September 19, 2017, 04:35:40 PM
I'm gonna try and make that meeting
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bobcat on September 19, 2017, 04:46:19 PM
I will be in Idaho then, otherwise I would've gone.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on September 19, 2017, 05:26:06 PM
I argued with the state biologist about this at the hunting expo. I cant see that producing any more trophies than normal in any unit. Limiting access will only help people who dont give a rip about their objectives.  I beleive most areas produce decent bucks if you put some time in.
Precisely, all that new restrictions will do is reduce trophy buck harvest. The last week of october, and extended buck is when the big boys get stupid. Take that away and your chance of harvesting them goes down drastically. Not impossible but greatly reduced. I'd just really like to talk to the biologist who has come up with this and see who is pushing for this??

My guess would be Weyerhauser. They get the state to make it a trophy unit and Weyerhauser can up the price of their access permits. Most of this unit is owned by Weyerhauser and is part of their Aberdeen South access permit.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on September 19, 2017, 05:30:58 PM
660 isn't known for having lots of big bucks or even decent buck numbers.  It does better with elk.

660 has traditionally been a good deer area and a poor elk area. There are still plenty of deer there and some fine bucks and the elk numbers have improved, but I would still call it more of a deer unit than an elk unit. Been hunting that unit since the mid 60s.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bobcat on September 19, 2017, 06:19:26 PM
660 isn't known for having lots of big bucks or even decent buck numbers.  It does better with elk.

660 has traditionally been a good deer area and a poor elk area. There are still plenty of deer there and some fine bucks and the elk numbers have improved, but I would still call it more of a deer unit than an elk unit. Been hunting that unit since the mid 60s.

:yeah:


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Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Elkoholic2 on September 19, 2017, 08:16:28 PM
WDFW Secret Meeting Exposed ~ was Only goin to be a small, invite only meeting. Public meeting place, a public resource. We will pack the room! Mon. Oct 2 Elma Grange at 6:30
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: crowinghen on September 20, 2017, 08:58:02 AM
i bet it's an idea floated by timber interests to increase permit sales, if i'm not mistaken that area is almost entirely locked up in the weyco twin harbors south unit?

That's exactly what I think/though when i heard about this.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 20, 2017, 09:14:20 AM
So... the trick on this one will be to not buy a permit for access while it's a 4pt unit.

After the 4pt min is dropped, that year will be the year to take your entire family in to hunt for an incredible harvest year. 

Ask the folks who live in GMU121

@buckcanyonlodge
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: fishnfur on September 21, 2017, 08:43:59 AM
 :yeah: 

Unfortunate for those who call this unit home.  It seems when WDFW gets a program like this in their heads, they've already decided they're going to do it.  They only ask for comment to placate those hurt by the program. 

Money talks.  If no one buys the Weyco permits for that unit, you'll likely see the program scrapped much earlier than if we continue to fill their pockets for access to a unit that essentially has a reduced opportunity for success. 
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bobcat on September 21, 2017, 09:03:49 AM
Actually if the unit does become a 4 point minimum, I'd have to consider purchasing a Weyerhaeuser permit. It would be fun hunting in an area where the deer are allowed to become mature, instead of having the majority shot when they're just little spikes and 2 points. Of course there's also a huge block of state land in the GMU that is open the the public.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 21, 2017, 09:09:24 AM
Might be fun, but it'll definitely be a killfest when the 4pt restriction is dropped.  I don't think we've ever had a trophy unit last in our state have we?
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Harbor_hunter on September 21, 2017, 09:17:04 AM
While I wouldn't doubt Weyco having their hand in it to try and make more money off those permits, Aberdeen south motorized sold out and sold plenty of walk in's too.  If they just keep cranking the price up like they are doing other places, people are still going to pay in my opinion.   
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Curly on September 21, 2017, 09:18:37 AM
I do wish they made it illegal to shoot spikes.  They are just fairly dumb when they are young and if all those spikes weren't taken, there would be more 4-points around. :twocents:
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: WSU on September 21, 2017, 09:27:30 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if there is more illegal harvest there than legal harvest.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: PolarBear on September 23, 2017, 03:03:03 AM
I do wish they made it illegal to shoot spikes.  They are just fairly dumb when they are young and if all those spikes weren't taken, there would be more 4-points around. :twocents:
:yeah:
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: fishnfur on September 23, 2017, 08:49:48 AM
 :yeah:  Killing spikes is a bit like keeping an eight inch trout.  Yeah, it's legal, but it will hardly feed you, and removes the animal from the population early in it's body growth phase.

This quasi-QDM program could produce some awesome bucks when the entire deer population in an area is managed in that fashion.  The problem: QDM calls for culling bucks that are less genetically gifted in the horn department to geet them out of the breeding population.  A significant portion of the BTs, by nature, are not all genetically programmed to have massive many-pointed racks.

Much like the three point restriction program on Muleys on the dry side, eventually a program like this may select for a population of big/mature and breeding two-point bucks passing on their "inferior" genes.  By nature of the environment and the solitary nature of mature BT bucks, there will certainly be some big four and five points in the mix as well.  I guess time will tell how this all shakes out.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: LEN on September 23, 2017, 09:45:34 AM
Just another one of the $$$$$$$ getters those with $$$ can hunt. I'll be dead soon so it will be up to the young guy's to do something. Like getting Weco to stop charging or start paying property tax's like the rest of us. Didn't mind supporting Weco when we could use the property for camping, hunting and fishing but now you have to buy the ticket. Soon it will be buy by the unit to hunt, wait it's almost that now.

LEN
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bighorn1 on September 23, 2017, 10:52:56 AM
This why a lot of hunters don,t turn in there harvest reports and Gmu that they hunt and just pay the extra ten dollars to keep there hunting area unknown. It's a lot like fishing if you give them the numbers they use it against you. Two many fish wrong kind of fish not  enough fish you give them the numbers they will find a way to use it against you.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on September 23, 2017, 11:37:23 AM
    Why this unit? That would be my question for WDFW. I have a hard time believing there is some sort of excellent 4 point gene that somehow eludes the rest of western washington. And since on topic of 4 point I would assume they are talking about 3 main points with eyegaurds. Since harvest reports include eyegaurds in total points. Anything that holds true for this unit should hold true for many units. Blocks of state land mixed in with private timber. If there is an issue make it an across the westside change.   

   As far as spikes go, while I would not oppose the idea I dont think its gonna be some sort of magical cure. Oregon has 2 point min, and having hunted it, the number of "mature" bucks ( I use 4.5 years old for reference, although to be fully mature I think 5.5 is more realistic. However, IMO very few 5.5 or older bucks are killed, and at that point it almost seems moot as that buck has probably already spread his genes,) seems very similar to areas I hunt in Washington. In the NW units of oregon anyway. As you move south of salem I think genetically some things change and I have seen bucks and found sheds of larger framed deer, however I am not convinced they are older deer by any means.

 
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Dave Workman on September 29, 2017, 06:47:32 PM
I argued with the state biologist about this at the hunting expo. I cant see that producing any more trophies than normal in any unit. Limiting access will only help people who dont give a rip about their objectives.  I beleive most areas produce decent bucks if you put some time in.
Precisely, all that new restrictions will do is reduce trophy buck harvest. The last week of october, and extended buck is when the big boys get stupid. Take that away and your chance of harvesting them goes down drastically. Not impossible but greatly reduced. I'd just really like to talk to the biologist who has come up with this and see who is pushing for this??


Haven't you heard?
Less is the new More....
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on September 30, 2017, 10:43:39 PM
    Why this unit? That would be my question for WDFW. I have a hard time believing there is some sort of excellent 4 point gene that somehow eludes the rest of western washington. And since on topic of 4 point I would assume they are talking about 3 main points with eyegaurds. Since harvest reports include eyegaurds in total points. Anything that holds true for this unit should hold true for many units. Blocks of state land mixed in with private timber. If there is an issue make it an across the westside change.   

   As far as spikes go, while I would not oppose the idea I dont think its gonna be some sort of magical cure. Oregon has 2 point min, and having hunted it, the number of "mature" bucks ( I use 4.5 years old for reference, although to be fully mature I think 5.5 is more realistic. However, IMO very few 5.5 or older bucks are killed, and at that point it almost seems moot as that buck has probably already spread his genes,) seems very similar to areas I hunt in Washington. In the NW units of oregon anyway. As you move south of salem I think genetically some things change and I have seen bucks and found sheds of larger framed deer, however I am not convinced they are older deer by any means.

 

It does border Lincoln which is where Les Clark shot the world record. so who knows?
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: fishnfur on October 01, 2017, 09:01:26 AM
My wife read me the highlights of an online article this AM while I drank my morning coffee....Apparently the Longview newspaper - The Daily News, reported this morning about the upcoming meeting in Elma about making Minot Peak unit a four-point restriction.  The public is invited, but will not be given a chance to comment. 

As I guessed before, they'd already made up their minds before they got around to asking for public comment.  Word leaked out about their meeting, so now they're going to give us the privilege of listening to them approve their great idea.

My coffee didn't taste quite so good today....
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on October 03, 2017, 09:45:47 AM
Anyone make the meeting last night?
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: N7XW on October 03, 2017, 04:25:41 PM
Anyone make the meeting last night?
:yeah:
We need info on what went down!
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: Humptulips on October 03, 2017, 06:03:02 PM
1.  Black tail deer escapement for mature bucks is fairly high due to terrain.
2.  2/3 or more of the 660 unit is Weyerhaeuser fee access limited to permits thus limiting the number of hunters and further increasing escapement.
4.  Like others have said, black tailed deer are not all going to be 4 point bucks just because they get a little older.  Yes age has something to do with antler development, but so does genetics.

So,

Why recommend further restrictions on one westside GMU that is primarily restricted access and has higher than average escapement already?

Just seems like a strange recommendation.  Maybe I am missing something though.   :dunno:

Maybe what you are missing is that if this could be advertised as a "Quality BT unit" WEYCO could raise their prices to the moon, freeze most hunters out and still fill their pockets.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: fishnfur on October 03, 2017, 10:26:39 PM
No, we didn't miss that one.  It was more of a general consensus.
Title: Re: New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660
Post by: bowbuild on October 08, 2017, 12:04:50 PM
i bet it's an idea floated by timber interests to increase permit sales, if i'm not mistaken that area is almost entirely locked up in the weyco twin harbors south unit?

Bet before long they will give the tags to the landowners, and let the bidding begin!! Thanks guys that support the permit system!! :bash:
It all started with the trespass law, that's what gave timber companies teeth to keep the public out. :bash: