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Other Activities => Fishing => Topic started by: kball4 on August 22, 2017, 10:12:07 AM


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Title: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: kball4 on August 22, 2017, 10:12:07 AM
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/oops-after-accidental-release-of-atlantic-salmon-fisherman-being-told-catch-as-many-as-you-want/

I know this happened maybe 15 years ago by bainbridge also.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Stein on August 22, 2017, 10:17:20 AM
Yeah, it would have been impossible to predict this. :rolleyes:

What do you do when you catch them?  I certainly don't like to eat genetic mutant garbage fed fish.  Maybe crab bait would be the best option.

Where are the "conservation" groups that sue over every hatchery?  It won't be long until some of these genes make their way into wild runs - or outcompete them.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: boneaddict on August 22, 2017, 10:26:07 AM
What blows me away is that you cant even import a butterfly into this state if it isn't native here. 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Timberstalker on August 22, 2017, 10:27:09 AM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: bigtex on August 22, 2017, 10:29:45 AM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Timberstalker on August 22, 2017, 10:32:37 AM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.

Understand, just the fact that they want us to help but we need to pay for it.  I'll leave it at that to avoid a thread jack. :tup:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 22, 2017, 10:54:15 AM
Yeah, it would have been impossible to predict this. :rolleyes:

What do you do when you catch them?  I certainly don't like to eat genetic mutant garbage fed fish.  Maybe crab bait would be the best option.

Where are the "conservation" groups that sue over every hatchery?  It won't be long until some of these genes make their way into wild runs - or outcompete them.
The diseases are the bigger issue.  Entire runs of pacific salmon have been destroyed in BC, Canada due to the net pens.  The Canadian government has court orders silencing and preventing scientists from saying/doing anything negative in regards to the farm fish.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: 7mmfan on August 22, 2017, 10:59:53 AM
Yeah, it would have been impossible to predict this. :rolleyes:

What do you do when you catch them?  I certainly don't like to eat genetic mutant garbage fed fish.  Maybe crab bait would be the best option.

Where are the "conservation" groups that sue over every hatchery?  It won't be long until some of these genes make their way into wild runs - or outcompete them.
The diseases are the bigger issue.  Entire runs of pacific salmon have been destroyed in BC, Canada due to the net pens.  The Canadian government has court orders silencing and preventing scientists from saying/doing anything negative in regards to the farm fish.

This. Also, these fish are all sterile I believe, effectively Triploids. They won't spawn, but they will run up the rivers and compete with our local species for food. I caught a couple last time this happened. Talk about an aggressive, hard fighting fish.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Brushcrawler on August 22, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
Anybody fish the escaped fish in 1997 off Bainbridge have tips for how to target them? It would be good to get them out of the Sound as soon as possible.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Dhoey07 on August 22, 2017, 11:16:56 AM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.

Understand, just the fact that they want us to help but we need to pay for it.  I'll leave it at that to avoid a thread jack. :tup:

Seems fairly typical with the other problems that hunters pay to help WDFW with, spring bear, second doe tags, etc.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Katmai Guy on August 22, 2017, 12:15:18 PM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.

And that's when you let the Chinook go because you don't have the correct permits.  Not to hard to figure out what to do.  BT, are you saying people would do something illegal if confronted with that situation?  ;)
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: jackelope on August 22, 2017, 12:55:18 PM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.

And that's when you let the Chinook go because you don't have the correct permits.  Not to hard to figure out what to do.  BT, are you saying people would do something illegal if confronted with that situation?  ;)

Is it at all legal to fish for salmon in the sound without a license?
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 22, 2017, 12:58:58 PM
Did anyone catch the fact that you need a fishing license to catch these Atlantic Salmon - but the WDFW really wants us to help.
It's not like hunting where you can target something and know exactly what you'll reel in. You may want to catch an atlantic salmon but end up catching a chinook.

And that's when you let the Chinook go because you don't have the correct permits.  Not to hard to figure out what to do.  BT, are you saying people would do something illegal if confronted with that situation?  ;)

Is it at all legal to fish for salmon in the sound without a license?

You need a hunting license to hunt Eurasian Collared Doves.  Seems this is the same thing. 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 22, 2017, 01:04:44 PM
Hunting you can make the argument about hunter safety/ed, but giving an invasive species license with a major discount.

I'd guess they want licenses for fishing so the bios can do their extrapolation and mortality estimates on Chinook/coho that are 'bycatch'.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Stein on August 22, 2017, 01:57:59 PM
Take some kids, no license required provided you aren't targeting something that requires a catch card.

Catch a few, put them in a flate rate box and send them to whoever approved that thing.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: dscubame on August 22, 2017, 02:21:42 PM
Yeah, it would have been impossible to predict this. :rolleyes:

What do you do when you catch them?  I certainly don't like to eat genetic mutant garbage fed fish.  Maybe crab bait would be the best option.

Where are the "conservation" groups that sue over every hatchery?  It won't be long until some of these genes make their way into wild runs - or outcompete them.
The diseases are the bigger issue.  Entire runs of pacific salmon have been destroyed in BC, Canada due to the net pens.  The Canadian government has court orders silencing and preventing scientists from saying/doing anything negative in regards to the farm fish.

Spot on.  The local anglers including sport and business up in B.C. despise those open pens and are very vocal about it.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Practical Approach on August 22, 2017, 02:27:48 PM
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk? 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2017, 04:29:27 PM
Here's the WDFW release just out:

August 22, 2017
Contact: Michelle Dunlop, (360) 902-2255
WDFW encourages anglers to fish for escaped Atlantic salmon
OLYMPIA – State salmon managers are encouraging anglers to fish for thousands of Atlantic salmon that escaped recently from a salmon farm near the San Juan Islands.
Cooke Aquaculture notified the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) of a net pen failure on Aug. 19 that caused the release of Atlantic salmon from the Cypress Island location. About 305,000 salmon were in the net pen at the time, though the company initially estimated that only 4,000-5,000 fish have escaped. Cypress Island lies along Rosario Strait between Guemes and Blakely islands
"Our first concern, of course, is to protect native fish species," said Ron Warren, head of WDFW's Fish Program. "So we'd like to see as many of these escaped fish caught as possible."
Warren said there is no evidence that these fish pose a threat to native fish populations, either through disease or crossbreeding with Pacific salmon. To date, there is no record of Atlantic salmon successfully reproducing with Pacific salmon in Washington's waters, he said.
"It will be some time before we know how many fish escaped the net pens," Warren said. "That's why we've authorized Cooke Aquaculture to fish with beach seine nets and we're encouraging anglers to go out and harvest these fish."
The escaped fish are estimated to be eight to 10 pounds in size and are safe to eat.
There is no size or catch limit on Atlantic salmon. However, anglers may only fish for Atlantic salmon in marine waters that are already open to fishing for Pacific salmon or freshwater areas open for trout fishing. Anglers also must stop fishing for Atlantic salmon once they've caught their daily limit of Pacific salmon.
To help anglers identify Atlantic salmon, WDFW has posted a salmon identification guide on its webpage at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/salmon/atlantic.html
Anglers must have a current fishing license and must also observe gear regulations identified in the 2017-18 sport fishing rules pamphlet. Anglers do not have to report Atlantic salmon on their catch record cards.
WDFW shares management authority with the state Department of Agriculture for monitoring fish diseases. Other state departments, local governments and tribal governments have authority related to the siting of marine aquaculture and water quality.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: h2ofowlr on August 22, 2017, 04:31:04 PM
It will give the tribes some excitement when they find their nets plugged.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: HookedOnQuack on August 22, 2017, 04:41:59 PM
We caught a bunch of them the last time this happened and they were a blast to catch. My grandparents have a house on Miller Bay just around the corner from Bainbridge and they were stacked up thick in the bay around all the docks. We ate them and I couldnt tell a differnce really between them and a wild salmon and Im still alive to tell about it lol
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 22, 2017, 04:47:32 PM
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk?
$$$$$....Seafood corporations have plenty of money to spend on self serving politicians.  I've read before that 90% of NW salmon that go to market are actually fish from the farms.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: SteelheadTed on August 22, 2017, 05:19:50 PM
Yeah, it would have been impossible to predict this. :rolleyes:

What do you do when you catch them?  I certainly don't like to eat genetic mutant garbage fed fish.  Maybe crab bait would be the best option.

Where are the "conservation" groups that sue over every hatchery?  It won't be long until some of these genes make their way into wild runs - or outcompete them.
The diseases are the bigger issue.  Entire runs of pacific salmon have been destroyed in BC, Canada due to the net pens.  The Canadian government has court orders silencing and preventing scientists from saying/doing anything negative in regards to the farm fish.

This. Also, these fish are all sterile I believe, effectively Triploids. They won't spawn, but they will run up the rivers and compete with our local species for food. I caught a couple last time this happened. Talk about an aggressive, hard fighting fish.

They were sterile fish in the case of the Bainbridge pens but WDFW isn't saying that about these fish.  It seems to me they would say that if they were and wouldn't be making such a big deal about getting these fish out of the water.  Me thinks they are worried that either they can breed with native fish or that disease could be an issue.  My bet is on the disease issue since breeding between Pacific salmon and Atlantic has not proven fruitful before.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: jamesfromseattle on August 22, 2017, 05:32:18 PM
We caught a bunch of them the last time this happened and they were a blast to catch. My grandparents have a house on Miller Bay just around the corner from Bainbridge and they were stacked up thick in the bay around all the docks. We ate them and I couldnt tell a differnce really between them and a wild salmon and Im still alive to tell about it lol

How'd you fish for them?  I have never heard much about sport fishing for Atlantic salmon in the salt.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Alchase on August 22, 2017, 06:45:52 PM
They have a milder flavor compared to Coho, Chinook, Sockeye. And they are a paler pink. When you see them in stores read the package ingredients, they add color to the meat to make it more appealing looking. They smoke up just fine though. Use small spoons or noise makers like a Blue Fox.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: metlhead on August 22, 2017, 07:17:35 PM
I wish they would outcompete all native salmon and infest every river in this state to the point of being a nuisance. Unrestricted fishing and no more politics of saving ESA stocks. God, let them spawn!
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Thenewguy on August 22, 2017, 07:41:06 PM
They have a milder flavor compared to Coho, Chinook, Sockeye. And they are a paler pink. When you see them in stores read the package ingredients, they add color to the meat to make it more appealing looking. They smoke up just fine though. Use small spoons or noise makers like a Blue Fox.

How deep are they?
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: buglebuster on August 22, 2017, 07:44:31 PM
Something's fishy... No pun intended :chuckle: anyone else find it weird that with all the closures this year to salmon fishing, and all of the anglers in an uproar, that all of a sudden this happens? Sounds to me like the wdfw had something to do with this to provide opportunity and shut everybody up...  :dunno:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: plugger on August 22, 2017, 07:49:34 PM
Some are way over reacting, There good eating, there sterile and there a blast to catch. I wish to hell I lived closer, I would be after them every chance I had. If you like triploids, you will like these to.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: James on August 22, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
Thinking about heading to the san juans, any pro tips from guys that have hammered them before would be greatly appreciated. Water depth, do they like structure? bait, lures, troll speed, etc.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Stein on August 22, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Go to Costco and you can see what they look like.  They dye some of them pinkish depending on what they feed them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: singleshot12 on August 22, 2017, 08:59:28 PM
Something's fishy... No pun intended :chuckle: anyone else find it weird that with all the closures this year to salmon fishing, and all of the anglers in an uproar, that all of a sudden this happens? Sounds to me like the wdfw had something to do with this to provide opportunity and shut everybody up...  :dunno:
:yeah:  is the first thought that came to my mind :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 22, 2017, 09:10:05 PM
Something's fishy... No pun intended :chuckle: anyone else find it weird that with all the closures this year to salmon fishing, and all of the anglers in an uproar, that all of a sudden this happens? Sounds to me like the wdfw had something to do with this to provide opportunity and shut everybody up...  :dunno:
:yeah:  is the first thought that came to my mind :chuckle:

 You can bonk unclipped kings in MA 7 right now, and fishing is good.  That would be the last place they'd need to throw a bone.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Night goat on August 22, 2017, 10:02:26 PM
if you look up the parent company who owns those net pens, you will notice ikura is one of the products from those fish.

do your own research though.

will a sterile fish still produce roe?
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on August 22, 2017, 10:18:44 PM
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk?
               
........ Only thing that comes to mind is the Federal government has to negotiate salmon regs. and the the state decides wildlife.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: plugger on August 23, 2017, 05:21:04 AM
I really like the comment where the tribal guy says "as bad a shape as are fishery is in, any impact  can be devastating"  Any impact this has is nothing like the impact of stringing nets across a river. Give me a break. There just mad because of the impact it has on the value of the fish they sell.....
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: kball4 on August 23, 2017, 06:23:21 AM
This may be a problem that has been reoccurring we just never knew about it.  Strait off the WDFW website. "Total annual escape from B.C. pens according to the most recent reports, to include chronic "leakage" of smaller fish (which is not reported), could exceed 50,000 fish, annually." 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: h2ofowlr on August 23, 2017, 07:43:47 AM
Buddies did good on them yesterday.  Had one friend with 6, another with 18 and saw pictures of a boat that had 34 in it.  Looks like a blast.  We might give it ago before 300 boats are targeting them in a small area.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Southpole on August 23, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Wow, those look like little tunas! Pretty fat and round.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: 7mmfan on August 23, 2017, 08:23:58 AM
Looks like a blast. Those fish fight like heck too. Any that survive for a while and adjust to natural food sources will become beasts. Kill them all  :tup:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Timberstalker on August 23, 2017, 08:55:00 AM
Damn, that's a boatload!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 23, 2017, 10:49:07 AM
h2o - did your buddies mention how they fished for them?  Trolling?  Throwing spinners? 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 23, 2017, 10:50:45 AM
You could probably buy a bag of food off the fish farm and do alright.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 23, 2017, 11:06:56 AM
You could probably buy a bag of food off the fish farm and do alright.

No kidding, kinda like feeding the trout at Cabelas! 

Wonder if you could put cat food on a hook under a bobber?
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: CP on August 23, 2017, 11:29:21 AM
I would bet they could be caught on a white lightning Coho killer behind a Hot Spot.  But I don't eat farm raised fish so I won't be finding out.

Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 23, 2017, 11:33:13 AM
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 23, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
I would bet they could be caught on a white lightning Coho killer behind a Hot Spot.  But I don't eat farm raised fish so I won't be finding out.
But they'll be 'wild caught'.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: CP on August 23, 2017, 11:39:44 AM
Where are the sea lions when you need them?
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 23, 2017, 11:54:06 AM
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk?
               
........ Only thing that comes to mind is the Federal government has to negotiate salmon regs. and the the state decides wildlife.

It is the same thing as having cows in a pasture, these are essentially domesticated animals and have little relationship to pen raising a wild animal.

if you look up the parent company who owns those net pens, you will notice ikura is one of the products from those fish.

do your own research though.

will a sterile fish still produce roe?


Not sure where the idea came from that these were triploid. Depending on production facility they may or may not raise them sterile.

Not a big deal if they are sterile or not though. They will not (or are very, very unlikely to) cross with Pacific salmon and as far as I know have never created a sustained wild run on the west coast.

Atlantics have been escaping for 30+ years in very large numbers (if it is only 50k a year I would find that highly unlikely and 50k is not even worth mentioning because of the insanely small number that represents in the scheme of fish production) and have randomly been picked up in fisheries or seen in streams.  If it was going to be an issue it should already have happened.

Just an over embellished story blowing a non issue out of proportion to further environmental dogma and sell papers. The only issue is the benefit of having more fish to catch :tup:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 23, 2017, 11:58:33 AM
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:

Sea lice levels rise and fall, Alaska wild caught is rampant with them on certain years and those fish are out of the influence of the BC farms. Sea lice can be an issue but farms are more likely to create localized epidemics from lice that were originally brought in by wild fish in the area.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 23, 2017, 12:00:16 PM
It's what killed the wild Atlantic runs.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: singleshot12 on August 23, 2017, 12:05:56 PM
An Atlantic salmon is basically a cross between a steelhead and a chinook. Maybe they would survive better in the wid than our dwindling so called native salmon and trout. At this point in our fisheries what could it hurt to give them a try?

As far as farm raised vs. wild food consumption? I would bet farm raised would be healthier since they are not near the top of the food chain :twocents:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: CP on August 23, 2017, 12:11:42 PM
As far as farm raised vs. wild food consumption? I would bet farm raised would be healthier since they are not near the top of the food chain :twocents:


 :puke:
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: singleshot12 on August 23, 2017, 12:19:41 PM
Tilapia I think is a different story. And poop might be better than mercury,radiation,pesticides,hormones etc. that wild fish pick up on down the food chain.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 23, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
Tilapia I think is a different story. And poop might be better than mercury,radiation,pesticides,hormones etc. that wild fish pick up on down the food chain.
I've read before that about 1/3 of all the catch in the ocean goes to pet food, livestock feed and aquaculture feed.  Stuff just gets ground up into pellets and fed in the farms.  So, they still get a lot of nasty stuff accumulating.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Night goat on August 23, 2017, 02:02:45 PM
Can someone tell me why it is still OK to farm raise Atlantic salmon in net pens all the while it is against the law to farm raise deer and elk?
               
........ Only thing that comes to mind is the Federal government has to negotiate salmon regs. and the the state decides wildlife.

It is the same thing as having cows in a pasture, these are essentially domesticated animals and have little relationship to pen raising a wild animal.

if you look up the parent company who owns those net pens, you will notice ikura is one of the products from those fish.

do your own research though.

will a sterile fish still produce roe?


Not sure where the idea came from that these were triploid. Depending on production facility they may or may not raise them sterile.

Not a big deal if they are sterile or not though. They will not (or are very, very unlikely to) cross with Pacific salmon and as far as I know have never created a sustained wild run on the west coast.

Atlantics have been escaping for 30+ years in very large numbers (if it is only 50k a year I would find that highly unlikely and 50k is not even worth mentioning because of the insanely small number that represents in the scheme of fish production) and have randomly been picked up in fisheries or seen in streams.  If it was going to be an issue it should already have happened.

Just an over embellished story blowing a non issue out of proportion to further environmental dogma and sell papers. The only issue is the benefit of having more fish to catch :tup:

theyve tried many many many times to cross an atlantic with a pacific salmon and even in lab environments they havent had success. the fear is having enough of these escape that when they smell fresh water nature will take over and they will head upstream and breed.....

my personal fear is that given the proximity of the samish river and the fact that these atlantics are mature, they might head upstream, given how small that river is, it would be competing with one of the last decent chinook runs, but otherwise, a salmon species that might have a better chance of survival......?

obviously they are farmed fish, but, what would they be if they spawned? first generation wild stock? would it be bad if we all of a sudden had a salmon that was more adaptable and persistent and resist to human bs in our rivers? short answer is no, it would be great if we could replenish our rivers with salmon, however, they arent wild salmon, they arent pacific salmon, they are an invasive species, whether long term good or bad, that threatens the indigenous salmon populations despite how unhealthy those fish are.

if 150 years ago this happened and the skagit, nooksack, Frazier, stilly, green, snohomish, and cedar rivers had an invasive salmon species claim it, we would still be pissed it happened to an extent in this day and age, but I doubt we would really care because of the fact there would be salmon runs.

the reality is that these fish, if they survive to spawn, will face the same problems and issues as our wild fish, and even our hatchery fish. while farm animals mixing with wild animals isnt entirely new, there are issues that these fish present to the wild stock, fish is kind of a new industry in the grand scheme of things. there never will be a replacement for wild salmon, period. however, with the going rate of climate change and environmental issues, its most likely inevitable that some will get into our rivers. the ultimate question is what the long term effects will be. if they took root in our rivers and indeed were able to thrive, more than likely they would evolve into a subspecies, but, if the were able to be wild, and live side by side with our pacific salmon, more fish in the rivers.... we just dont know what would actually happen, and the health of these farm fish, and what illness they could spread to wild fish, isnt something we can afford to experiment with, without a doubt there is the possibility of these farmed fish passing on a virus to pacifics and wiping them out, but, I think that there is also the potential, even in small numbers to add, whether intentional or not, another species of salmon to a river that after a spawn cycle, if successful, might establish a very small run, but... will face the exact same issues of pacifics...

still, I say kill em all, our oceans are not labratories or farm fields.

regardless of current events, salmon shaped the forests of the west coast, our trees were huge because of the nitrogen produced by rotting salmon post spawn, the envoriment was healther because of the annual down stream flow of essentially fish based fertilizer. deforestation, over fishing, global warming.... the spotted owl.... we can point fingers at many things, and we can try to restore creeks and un-do all the damage weve done, but, in order to get things somewhat close to the way they were in terms of fish runs, its a trifecta of healthy forests, healthy rivers, and healthy fish. fixing just one of those isnt possible, they need to be all working together at the same time, and while I am by no means advocating stuffing our rivers with gmo frankenfish, I feel that if found to be able to cohabitate with wild fish, some sort of introduction of a fish that can thrive in current conditions in conjunction with better forestry and conservation practices, and management on a state level, it might jump start critical areas that would be otherwise have no fish... obviously these arent the right fish for something like that, but, to me, its the concept thats worth considering

even if we had a number of salmon head up the rivers, like they did 200 years ago, they wouldnt make it, our rivers and streams cant handle large numbers of fish, because there hasnt been fish like that, the forests dont support rivers like that anymore. simply adding more fish to a river isnt the answer, but if there was a more persistent and slightly increasing number of annual fish in areas that would otherwise be barren... hard to say, its a very controversial subject, but, do you ever hear of sockeye out competing chinook salmon for spawning areas? of course not, thats why salmon run at different times of the year... I think that it shouldnt be taken off the table, but, only as a last resort, man shouldnt mess with nature like that, but if its a last ditch effort to save the rivers... I do feel that in our lifetimes, we will be asking the question "how could it get any worse?" and whether we like it or not, some sort of intervention will take place...

still, everything possible should be done to protect the few wild fish we have left, including killing all of these escapees while possible
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: singleshot12 on August 23, 2017, 02:49:02 PM
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Night goat on August 23, 2017, 02:53:52 PM
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.

exactly, and, just a thought id like to add, there is the potential for the pacifics to survive in the shadow of the atlantics. if the atlantics thrive and jump start our rivers, and provide the environment with a new food source, pressure might be taken off the pacific salmon just enough to give them a chance to recover. escaped farm fish isnt the answer, but the atlantic salmon as a species definitely holds a lot of potential
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: singleshot12 on August 23, 2017, 03:05:26 PM
 :yeah: I would say at this point it would definitely be worth a try. But doubt it would ever be considered by the bio's or fish managers.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Griiz on August 23, 2017, 04:08:55 PM
With climate changes and environmental issues we have Pacific salmon may not survive for that much longer.The Atlantic salmon may do better in our changing climate.
I also like the fact that they can spawn for several seasons before dying.

exactly, and, just a thought id like to add, there is the potential for the pacifics to survive in the shadow of the atlantics. if the atlantics thrive and jump start our rivers, and provide the environment with a new food source, pressure might be taken off the pacific salmon just enough to give them a chance to recover. escaped farm fish isnt the answer, but the atlantic salmon as a species definitely holds a lot of potential

Yeah right, they are closing hatcheries because they are supposedly bad for native stocks and the are producing the hatchery fish with native Gene's. The politics are beyond frustrating.
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 24, 2017, 12:34:03 AM
Establishing Atlantic salmon runs on this coast has already been tried numerous times, it never took. There has also been a large number of escapees over the years that have not been known to create a breeding population. Another non issue. 
Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: lokidog on August 29, 2017, 12:21:03 PM
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:

Sea lice levels rise and fall, Alaska wild caught is rampant with them on certain years and those fish are out of the influence of the BC farms. Sea lice can be an issue but farms are more likely to create localized epidemics from lice that were originally brought in by wild fish in the area.
Not sure what the talk of sea lice is, if, and a big if it is, these fish have sea lice (Not a single one of over 100 I've seen had even one) the lice came from "wild" fish.

Other than maybe the yellowmouth thing, and maybe even that, the pen raised fish probably have more to worry about catching diseases from the local fish than the other way around since our local fish have genetic resistance to local diseases.

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Title: Re: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: h2ofowlr on August 29, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
It's going to be great when those sea lice start going around in the wild populations.  :tup:

Sea lice levels rise and fall, Alaska wild caught is rampant with them on certain years and those fish are out of the influence of the BC farms. Sea lice can be an issue but farms are more likely to create localized epidemics from lice that were originally brought in by wild fish in the area.

Don't think a single one of the Atlantic salmon I caught had sea lice on them.  Boated 52 of them.
Title: 300000+ Atlantic salmon released after pen break
Post by: Stein on August 29, 2017, 04:38:06 PM
Yeah, I'll pass on factory fish like I pass on factory beef.  They may make decent crab bait.

Seattle can dump millions of gallons of sewage and this is allowed to happen, but make sure you have a license and pinched barb when you are out cleaning up the mess.

If sea lice won't eat them......

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