Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: smithkl42 on September 29, 2017, 11:22:30 AM

Title: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: smithkl42 on September 29, 2017, 11:22:30 AM
Shot my first bear with a bow last night.

Unfortunately, it was after hours, in my backyard, with my kids' 15 pound bow and target arrows :-).

Came home after a day of hunting where I didn't see anything all day, only to find a bear in my backyard ripping apart my compost pile. It wouldn't leave, so I pulled out my kids' beginner bow and some of their arrows, and let fly. The first arrow went high, but the second bounced off its flank, earning me a dirty look. The third smacked it in the head and it ran off.

Much less satisfying than getting a real bear, but much *more* satisfying than letting it have its way with our compost pile.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: lamrith on September 29, 2017, 11:44:26 AM
HAH.. 

Only thing that could top that is if you used a paintball gun, with pink paintballs..
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: acrim on September 29, 2017, 03:25:22 PM
Hope its just my paranoid mind , but  be careful about multiple hunting law violations advertised on the interweb.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: brew on September 29, 2017, 03:52:39 PM
Hope its just my paranoid mind , but  be careful about multiple hunting law violations advertised on the interweb.
copy that...i'm always dumfounded by the amount of illegal activities that get posted on social media websites
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Antlershed on September 29, 2017, 04:03:35 PM
Hope its just my paranoid mind , but  be careful about multiple hunting law violations advertised on the interweb.
copy that...i'm always dumfounded by the amount of illegal activities that get posted on social media websites
:yeah:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on September 29, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Hope its just my paranoid mind , but  be careful about multiple hunting law violations advertised on the interweb.
This is sound advice,alot people looking to increase there points for turning people in.

But he could of shot this bear if he felt threated , and sounds like he has kids also,i think what he did was the right thing to do legal or not,by hazeing this bear may keep him from coming back and give the bear a chance at not getting shot next time.

The black bear is classified as a game animal (WAC 232-12-007). A hunting license and open season are required to hunt black bears. A property owner or the owner’s immediate family, employee, or tenant may kill a bear on that property if it is damaging crops or domestic animals. You must notify your local Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) office immediately after taking a black bear in these situations (RCW 77.36.030).
The killing of a black bear in self-defense, or defense of another, should be reasonable and justified. A person taking such action must have reasonable belief that the bear poses a threat of serious physical harm, that this harm is imminent, and the action is the only reasonable available means to prevent that harm.

A bear that won't leave sounds like a threat , :twocents:

I would watch what you post here :twocents:

Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: smithkl42 on September 29, 2017, 05:57:23 PM
Out of curiosity, given that I was explicitly *not* hunting it, didn't injure it, and wasn't trying to, and was just trying to haze it to get it to go away - that's not actually a hunting reg violation, is it? A 15 pound bow with dull target arrows wasn't going to do any more damage than throwing a small rock at it, but it felt like I could do it from a safer distance. (I certainly wasn't *intending* to violate any rules, but if it were actually an unintentional violation, I really would like to know.)

(And FWIW, I do have a bear tag, and if it had been an hour earlier, would probably have taken the shot, with my real bow.)
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: steeleywhopper on September 29, 2017, 07:10:20 PM
Don't forget he was baiting it in with his "compost pile". :chuckle: 

I'm kidding!
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on September 29, 2017, 07:30:58 PM
Don't forget he was baiting it in with his "compost pile". :chuckle: 

I'm kidding!

Wow ,now that's funny,lol :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I wouldn't be surprised to hear someone say it . :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Antlershed on September 30, 2017, 08:39:51 AM
I realize you were just trying to scare the bear off, but do you trust all potential LE that may read this to give you the same benefit of the doubt? Attached below is the definition of "To Hunt" from the regs. So, given that what you did technically meets that definition, violations could include hunting after hours and hunting with illegal equipment.

Using the self defense argument after the fact would be a stretch since if the individual was truly acting in self defense, the hunting bow that meets the minimum draw weight with broadheads would be a more appropriate weapon.

Again, I'm not trying to blast you, and I'm about as pro LE as one can get, but you would be wrong to think there aren't wardens who would try and make this same stretch.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Southpole on September 30, 2017, 09:02:32 AM
I realize you were just trying to scare the bear off, but do you trust all potential LE that may read this to give you the same benefit of the doubt? Attached below is the definition of "To Hunt" from the regs. So, given that what you did technically meets that definition, violations could include hunting after hours and hunting with illegal equipment.

Using the self defense argument after the fact would be a stretch since if the individual was truly acting in self defense, the hunting bow that meets the minimum draw weight with broadheads would be a more appropriate weapon.

Again, I'm not trying to blast you, and I'm about as pro LE as one can get, but you would be wrong to think there aren't wardens who would try and make this same stretch.
He wasn't hunting, he was hazing an animal to leave his property alone... and was attempting to be humorous about it. I'm thinking this thread is probably going to go south quick :peep:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: JakeLand on September 30, 2017, 09:31:58 AM
He was HARMLESSLY teaching a bear a lesson it's no more or no less then swatting your kid on the butt when not behaving
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Pegasus on September 30, 2017, 10:29:24 AM
A bear that won't leave your backyard is a threat to you, your family and your property. Taking steps to protect them while using a non-lethal method(kiddy bow) might not be the brightest solution but certainly should be tolerated by a LEO. That said I have seen the WDFW agents write up people for much less who then have to go to court to get a reasonable person(judge) to remove the ridiculous charges.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: smithkl42 on October 02, 2017, 12:34:46 AM
Good points all, everyone. Thanks for the feedback. The interesting point I didn't realize is that "harass" (which is more-or-less what I did) comes under the definition of "hunting" - that was new information to me. And while I'm confident what I did would be seen by any reasonable person as a reasonable way to get rid of the bear, I can also believe that there are LEO's out there who wouldn't qualify as reasonable. I'll be careful about what I post. Sounds like there are plenty of folks here who've had more experience in that arena than I have (which is, of course, one of the main reasons for hanging out on forums like this - to learn).
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Dan-o on October 02, 2017, 06:21:04 AM
 :tup:

I think it was a great story, BTW.     

 :tup:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 02, 2017, 06:30:57 AM
It is a great story. However, were it mine, I'd have the post removed. And please don't mistake the concern of fellow forum members as internet bashing. It's quite possible you've posted the breaking of several wildlife laws - hunting after hours, wildlife harassment, shooting a bow at big game with under 40 lbs, attempted poaching. Consider taking this down. Have a good day.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: huntnfmly on October 02, 2017, 07:54:35 AM
Great story but as the other posters pointed out and are right is that there are many unreasonable leos that may see your situation as breaking laws.
It's terrible that we've gotten to this point that you can't even do what you did and that it could be interpreted  as violations.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on October 02, 2017, 08:10:26 AM
So when does a bear in your backyard become a threat,I think this would be my question for Leo.Cause are you really harassing a bear once it becomes a threat :dunno: or does it fall into the self defence part of the law.These are all questions that we would like to know,and everbody has a different answer or opinion,that must be respected,But these would be good questions for LEO.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 02, 2017, 08:24:19 AM
So when does a bear in your backyard become a threat,I think this would be my question for Leo.Cause are you really harassing a bear once it becomes a threat :dunno: or does it fall into the self defence part of the law.These are all questions that we would like to know,and everbody has a different answer or opinion,that must be respected,But these would be good questions for LEO.

When? When you hit it with an arrow from a 15 lb bow????  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on October 02, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
So when does a bear in your backyard become a threat,I think this would be my question for Leo.Cause are you really harassing a bear once it becomes a threat :dunno: or does it fall into the self defence part of the law.These are all questions that we would like to know,and everbody has a different answer or opinion,that must be respected,But these would be good questions for LEO.

When? When you hit it with an arrow from a 15 lb bow????  :chuckle:

I was thinking maybe hungry bear on a compost pile,I don't think I'm getting between a bear and a food source.Would it be different if he used a sling shot,bb gun,bear spray,what do you do if you don't have bear spray,let the bear charge you,your dog,your kid,before it become a threat.Like I said everybody got different opinions.but the only one that matters is a Leo.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: yakimanoob on October 02, 2017, 08:48:34 AM
I don't doubt that a sour LEO or attorney wouldn't argue otherwise, but I can't imagine that what they OP did could possibly qualify as harassment.  The bear was destroying his property.

If the bear had just been sitting there or wandering through his back yard, I could see poking it with kiddy arrows being called harassment.  But an action taken to prevent an animal from damaging your property...  I just can't see how any judge would uphold that as harassment. 

[Edited to take back the statement of it not being self-defense after thinking about it a little more.  It's probably self-defense since RCW 9A.16.110(1) includes protecting property.  The question would only be if shooting kiddy arrows is a "reasonable means necessary" to stop the action.]
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: yakimanoob on October 02, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Like I said everybody got different opinions.but the only one that matters is a Leo.
Not that a LEO can't cause a big headache, but thankfully the only one with an opinion that matters is a judge.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Pegasus on October 02, 2017, 08:53:42 AM
A bear just being in your back yard is a threat. Doesn't matter what the bear is doing; pooping, eating, scratching, hunting, etc. There are enough videos here that show what a bear does in taking down a fawn. Now replace that fawn with a potential child. Yosemite chases the bears away with rubber bullets. They hopefully do this BEFORE someone becomes a bear statistic. Doing the same for your family is appropriate.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Elkcollector82 on October 02, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
Like I said everybody got different opinions.but the only one that matters is a Leo.
Not that a LEO can't cause a big headache, but thankfully the only one with an opinion that matters is a judge.

I'd have 12 opinions of my peers. before I had a single opinion of a judge  :dunno:

Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: yakimanoob on October 02, 2017, 08:59:30 AM
I'd have 12 opinions of my peers. before I had a single opinion of a judge  :dunno:

I don't know enough about the legal system to know if this would be a jury trail, or just the judge's call.  There are plenty of issues that are settled without a jury. 

Personally, especially in Washington, I'd rather have a judge than 12 people who may-or-may not think bears are cute and cuddly and shooting them with arrows is mean.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: yakimanoob on October 02, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
More to the point: Thanks for posting this and making me laugh. 

It's the nature of internet forums to side-line and second guess and discuss the finer points of whatever.  Don't let it stop you from posting!   :tup:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on October 02, 2017, 10:05:55 AM
Ya this bear was hoped up on old coffee grounds and bannana peels it could do anything. :chuckle: :chuckle:

Bearlives matter  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm gonna take a knee during national anthem for bear lives now :chuckle: :chuckle:

I would do same if I had too,kiddo bow was just what he had on hand and did the job.MacGyver that bear.
This is my last comment on this topic,Great story,and comments from everybody,don't let one persons oppion stop you from posting on this forum :tup:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 02, 2017, 10:23:04 AM
So when does a bear in your backyard become a threat,I think this would be my question for Leo.Cause are you really harassing a bear once it becomes a threat :dunno: or does it fall into the self defence part of the law.These are all questions that we would like to know,and everbody has a different answer or opinion,that must be respected,But these would be good questions for LEO.

When? When you hit it with an arrow from a 15 lb bow????  :chuckle:

I was thinking maybe hungry bear on a compost pile,I don't think I'm getting between a bear and a food source.Would it be different if he used a sling shot,bb gun,bear spray,what do you do if you don't have bear spray,let the bear charge you,your dog,your kid,before it become a threat.Like I said everybody got different opinions.but the only one that matters is a Leo.

I think that the opinions expressed are out of concern for the OP. Once you post it, the LE and courts take over and will use a post as evidence. They've fined people for not clamping down the barbs on a hook enough. I have little doubt some of them would look at this and go investigate.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Pegasus on October 02, 2017, 11:01:14 AM
Remember when the LEO's come for you do not offer to give them the bow. If they want the bow as evidence make them seize it without your permission. Don't interfere with them taking the bow but make it clear you are not willing giving them the bow.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: smithkl42 on October 02, 2017, 05:47:23 PM
Remember when the LEO's come for you do not offer to give them the bow. If they want the bow as evidence make them seize it without your permission. Don't interfere with them taking the bow but make it clear you are not willing giving them the bow.

Why is that?
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Timberstalker on October 02, 2017, 06:20:18 PM
Curious if this would get me 10 preference points??????



 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: hunter399 on October 02, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Curious if this would get me 10 preference points??????



 :chuckle:
Hunters helping hunters :tup: :tup:


 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Antlershed on October 02, 2017, 07:35:32 PM
So when does a bear in your backyard become a threat,I think this would be my question for Leo.Cause are you really harassing a bear once it becomes a threat :dunno: or does it fall into the self defence part of the law.These are all questions that we would like to know,and everbody has a different answer or opinion,that must be respected,But these would be good questions for LEO.

When? When you hit it with an arrow from a 15 lb bow????  :chuckle:

I was thinking maybe hungry bear on a compost pile,I don't think I'm getting between a bear and a food source.Would it be different if he used a sling shot,bb gun,bear spray,what do you do if you don't have bear spray,let the bear charge you,your dog,your kid,before it become a threat.Like I said everybody got different opinions.but the only one that matters is a Leo.

I think that the opinions expressed are out of concern for the OP. Once you post it, the LE and courts take over and will use a post as evidence. They've fined people for not clamping down the barbs on a hook enough. I have little doubt some of them would look at this and go investigate.
:yeah:

Because in addition to the points already made about how this could be twisted, sadly someone, somewhere would jump at the opportunity to try and turn this into 10 points (I know Timberstalker was joking...I think  :chuckle:).
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: yakimanoob on October 02, 2017, 11:01:07 PM
Remember when the LEO's come for you do not offer to give them the bow. If they want the bow as evidence make them seize it without your permission. Don't interfere with them taking the bow but make it clear you are not willing giving them the bow.

Why is that?

If you say they can have it when they ask, they can use it against you.  This goes for anything that may be used as evidence.  But if they take it without your permission, there's a possibility that a judge will throw out the evidence as an unreasonable search/seizure.  This is decent advice anytime you are dealing with law enforcement. 

BUT I gotta say, it seems pretty overdramatic to be talking about this in the current context.  I really don't think you have anything to worry about. 
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Elkcollector82 on October 02, 2017, 11:19:29 PM
Remember when the LEO's come for you do not offer to give them the bow. If they want the bow as evidence make them seize it without your permission. Don't interfere with them taking the bow but make it clear you are not willing giving them the bow.

Why is that?

If you say they can have it when they ask, they can use it against you.  This goes for anything that may be used as evidence.  But if they take it without your permission, there's a possibility that a judge will throw out the evidence as an unreasonable search/seizure.  This is decent advice anytime you are dealing with law enforcement. 

Best advice. Tell them you ain't gonna say anything without legal representation. End of story. They gonna take whatever they want. In the end if no crime was committed. You will get your belongings back. Wouldn't even answer the simplest of questions without a lawyer next you.

For this instance. Your right kinda jumping the gun. Nothing gonna happen. The OP did what he thought was right. To each their own. Theirs people that would of done less. Then theirs people that would of filled their freezer with that bear. Everyone handles things differently.
Title: Re: Shot my first bear with a bow
Post by: Pegasus on October 03, 2017, 07:58:02 AM
Remember when the LEO's come for you do not offer to give them the bow. If they want the bow as evidence make them seize it without your permission. Don't interfere with them taking the bow but make it clear you are not willing giving them the bow.

Why is that?

If you say they can have it when they ask, they can use it against you.  This goes for anything that may be used as evidence.  But if they take it without your permission, there's a possibility that a judge will throw out the evidence as an unreasonable search/seizure.  This is decent advice anytime you are dealing with law enforcement. 

Best advice. Tell them you ain't gonna say anything without legal representation. End of story. They gonna take whatever they want. In the end if no crime was committed. You will get your belongings back. Wouldn't even answer the simplest of questions without a lawyer next you.

For this instance. Your right kinda jumping the gun. Nothing gonna happen. The OP did what he thought was right. To each their own. Theirs people that would of done less. Then theirs people that would of filled their freezer with that bear. Everyone handles things differently.

I was kidding about the LEOs showing up to investigate this "heinous crime". However stranger things have been done by overly-aggressive LEOs. My advice about the giving of evidence or having it seized is still correct. LEOs are trained in how to ask your permission to take evidence and unless you are forewarned you won't even catch what he is doing. If they think it is necessary enough to train for this then they know it is an important procedure that can affect the outcome of a case. In this case imagine how ridiculous the LEO would appear as the attorneys argue over the proper taking a child's toy bow in front of a judge. Some judges will only tolerate just so much nonsense before they throw a case out of court.