Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: jrebel on January 01, 2018, 04:42:19 PM

Title: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 01, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Been thinking of building a long range rifle capable of shooting 200+ grain bullets.  Primary use would be bear and elk hunting to 600 yard and target shooting to 1000 yards.  I have a 6.5 creedmoor capable of what is mentioned....minus the 200+ grain bullets so really looking for suggestions on the larger bore rifles. 

Rifles I have considered: 340 weatherby mag, 338 win mag & ultra mag, 300 weatherby mag and 300 win mag. 

Figure whatever I build will have a 26" in barrel with a break.  Looking to weigh in around 11-12 lbs total.....anything lighter will likely kick like a mule.  I do all my own reloading so cost of rounds is not that big a deal and should not be taken into consideration.  Ease of finding components though is a big deal. 

Thanks for any suggestions.

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 01, 2018, 04:52:49 PM
Is there a velocity or energy minimum or an overall drop you're looking for at the 600 yd mark? 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 01, 2018, 04:57:00 PM
Is there a velocity or energy minimum or an overall drop you're looking for at the 600 yd mark?

To keep it simple....yes, enough energy take an elk sized animal.  Minimum 1000 ft/lbs at 600 which any of these calibers should handle.....with most bing in 1500+ ft/lbs. 

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: 92xj on January 01, 2018, 04:59:52 PM
Buy my 300. I want a lighter weight one to mule kick me.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Reidus on January 01, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
300 wsm built to shoot the 210-215s. should be able to get 2800-2900 fps.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 01, 2018, 05:22:51 PM
300 win mag with 215's will take you to 1000 on targets and meet your game expectations.   

The weatherby's can be a pain to load for with those bottleneck brass and 3/8" freebore.  However my son has a 338-378 that after 200 rounds of tweaking now hits 8" steel cold bore first shot at 1000. 

Have used a 338 wm with no brake for most everything for many years and been very satisfied out to 700 yards.  Stock 338 Vanguard with vx 4-24 is 9.5 #.   Anything over 10# is a beast to me.   Son's 338-378 is 11# and needs a brake.

With big brake kick is not bad on a 10# rifle.

If you already have a 6.5 creedmoor I would consider a true 1000 yard cannon - 338 edge being most affordable. 

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 01, 2018, 05:58:04 PM
 :yeah:

I have a 300 win that shoots 215 bergers at 3025 fps. It weighs just over 10 lb with a scope and bipod. It has a 28 inch barrel and a brake. Recoil isnít bad. I watched the bullet impact all 3 deer I shot with it this fall and watched them drop in the scope. 380 to 677 yards.

I didnít want to added expense or blast of the ultra mag sized cases or bigger and the winny will do whatever I want.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 01, 2018, 05:58:58 PM
Take your pick 300 RUM, 300 Winnie, 30 Nosler all shooting Berger 215's will suit you well and with the new brass company, ADG, making Lapua quality brass for the 300 RUM, in a non wildcat chambering, it would be my first choice.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 01, 2018, 06:12:38 PM
Nothing like planning a custom for the new year ............... was too foggy to shoot yday

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 01, 2018, 06:15:51 PM
I ordered another from mike last week.  :chuckle: I hate waiting
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2018, 06:15:55 PM
.338 Edge!

Pleasure to shoot with a muzzle brake at the weight you mentioned. Wicked accurate! Flat crushes game!

300gr Berger Hybrid.

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps6fcb9794.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps6fcb9794.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo_zps1a2e9b8d.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo_zps1a2e9b8d.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo2_zps4cd5ff3f.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo2_zps4cd5ff3f.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo_zps31b960a4.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo_zps31b960a4.jpg.html)

300 yards with the Hornady 285's.

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/DBB30D95-374D-4B19-9622-57947D751C3D-3372-000000E89488466E_zps88983a33.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/DBB30D95-374D-4B19-9622-57947D751C3D-3372-000000E89488466E_zps88983a33.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/EFC1BCC8-75D6-4E66-BC1F-7FAB2A750897-3372-000000E8995D6EF8_zps7ffaf308.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/EFC1BCC8-75D6-4E66-BC1F-7FAB2A750897-3372-000000E8995D6EF8_zps7ffaf308.jpg.html)

The 285's flat crush Mule deer 🦌!👍

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo2_zpsdac11b3a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo2_zpsdac11b3a.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo1_zps05d30fc0.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo1_zps05d30fc0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 01, 2018, 06:44:51 PM
I ordered another from mike last week.  :chuckle: I hate waiting
Yea waiting 6 weeks for hydrodipper - after they have the stock with bedding - was a killer.  heh
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Clark33 on January 01, 2018, 07:44:18 PM
Look into the 300wsm with the 200 or 212 ELD-X bullets.  Great BCs and they do great against game.  I have been reading awesome results with these bullets paired with RL-26, 3,000ish fps with no pressure signs.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: CaNINE on January 02, 2018, 05:52:21 PM
Jrebel - for the usage you've described I'd look to the 300 Win Mag or the 300WSM in a 1:10 twist. If you may want more capability down the road, the 300RUM and the big 338's will do all that you want and much much more.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 02, 2018, 06:02:19 PM
The 300wsm falls far short behind the other 30 cals when you move into the heavy high b.c. bullets.  I've shot a pile of big bullets out of my wsm that has a 26" 9 twist and those long bullets just chew up too much case capacity.  With 67gr of h4831sc I was blowing primer pockets.  That was 2,915fps.  Bullblaster was shooting 215 bergers out of his win mag at over 3050 with no issue.  He backed it off a bit for better brass life but probably could have milked it even more.  If you want bang for your buck go win mag, RUM, or Norma.  The norma pushing 230's would be a super duper option as well.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 02, 2018, 06:51:48 PM
Nothing like planning a custom for the new year ............... was too foggy to shoot yday

 :drool: looks like a sweet rig!!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 02, 2018, 07:55:02 PM
I ordered another from mike last week.  :chuckle: I hate waiting
mines gonna be done before yours :chuckle: :hello:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: uplandhunter870 on January 02, 2018, 09:26:53 PM
have you ruled out 300 RUM? i think it is worth considering. I have one of the new(ish) rem 700 LR in 300 RUM and it shoots lights out, sub MOA out to 500, i haven't shot it passed 500 yet. currently im pushing 168gr Nosler HPBT custom comps with 97 gr of H1000. havent chrono'ed this round but its in the 3300fps neighborhood according to the math.

with the heavier weight of the 700LR set up and a DE break to match the barrel contour recoil is less than my 270 win. in a 10-11 pound set up with a larger break i think recoil would be very manageable. and if/when you shoot out the 300 RUM barrel you could rechamber in 338 edge if you wanted to upscale.

just food for thought.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: hogslayer on January 02, 2018, 10:04:09 PM
I would vote for 300 win mag with h1000 or rl 26.  A 215 in a 26Ē barrel should get 2950-2990.  Brass is everywhere and cheap.  Fits in a box mag.  Most of the other options you mentioned wouldnít be able to be ran through a mag.  You would end up single feeding if you ran a high bc bullet and a 300 rum or edge.  Not a deal breaker for me.  But just something to consider.  Word on the street is that lapua is dropping some new brass at the shot show next month.  The 300 Norma mag being one of the new lines. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 02, 2018, 10:18:27 PM
A guy can't go wrong with a .300 Win Mag, which is my all time favorite chambering for the long stuff. I have  had a 300 Win Mag barrel go over 4K. The throat was way gone and if I cleaned it, it took 12-15 rounds to settle down. Still shot 3/8" when I pulled it and had Boots Obermeyer rebarrel it. 1-11 twist for the 190 Bergers. That was 20 years ago.

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mallard on January 02, 2018, 11:23:31 PM
You're bound to get a lot of opinions. I'll throw mine in as well. All the calibers you mentioned will get the job done. Unless you have specific ballistic requirements, I think you should get what you prefer and would enjoy shooting.

I've owned both the 300 RUM and 338 RUM. I sold the 300 because I preferred the way the 338 shot and the ballistics of the larger bullets. However, if I was to choose again, I think I would choose a different 338 cartridge since the RUM has since fallen out of favor and brass is harder to obtain.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 03, 2018, 05:33:03 AM
A guy can't go wrong with a .300 Win Mag, which is my all time favorite chambering for the long stuff. I have  had a 300 Win Mag barrel go over 4K. The throat was way gone and if I cleaned it, it took 12-15 rounds to settle down. Still shot 3/8" when I pulled it and had Boots Obermeyer rebarrel it. 1-11 twist for the 190 Bergers. That was 20 years ago.

I second 300WM, it is an awesome round. Not sure who came up with the 2K being the limit for these rifles, I guess it all comes down to what you shoot out of it. They can go for at least 5000 rounds as long as your paying attention to not overheating the barrel by shooting fast. I would recommend a 15 lb. rifle with a 25 inch barrel and 1-10 twist, but that is just me.  Shorter barrel is stiffer resulting in a tighter group, heavier gun tames the recoil a lot.  I have personally shot several 4" groups at 600 yards with such an animal with more than 4000 rounds on the barrel and seen one guy print a couple 2" groups at 600 yards with that rifle.

I don't have much experience with them, but I have heard that 300 and 338 Norma are supposed to be awesome especially with heavier than 200 grains which would help with inaccuracy in winds calls more. I think around a 1-9 twist is used on those. They would also be useful if you decide to stretch your ranges out later.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: birddogdad on January 03, 2018, 06:06:02 AM
Been thinking of building a long range rifle capable of shooting 200+ grain bullets.  Primary use would be bear and elk hunting to 600 yard and target shooting to 1000 yards.  I have a 6.5 creedmoor capable of what is mentioned....minus the 200+ grain bullets so really looking for suggestions on the larger bore rifles. 

Rifles I have considered: 340 weatherby mag, 338 win mag & ultra mag, 300 weatherby mag and 300 win mag. 

Figure whatever I build will have a 26" in barrel with a break.  Looking to weigh in around 11-12 lbs total.....anything lighter will likely kick like a mule.  I do all my own reloading so cost of rounds is not that big a deal and should not be taken into consideration.  Ease of finding components though is a big deal. 

have them all , shot them all and my go to is a 375H&H. The 340wby will shoot very flat, but is a heavy carry. 300 is always a good choice. all would be acceptable, I would recommend a muzzle brake for any of the large mags. the options you have with the larger deadly game cartridges is in bullet/reloading. I have a 300gr FMJ brush load and a 300gr game king load for up close and long range. I site to  the game kings and the fmj is fine out 250 or so. Remember you will have large drops on most of these out around 400yds and you need to ensure you are proficient with dialing your rifle at distance regardless, be mindful of the scopes range of turret adjustment as well, you may need a rail to increase your hold overs down range, not a big BDC guy here, dope it out...

Thanks for any suggestions.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MooseZ25 on January 03, 2018, 07:50:22 AM
I shoot a 338 RUM and love it.  If I built another one I would go with a 338 Norma.  Everything just fits better on the Norma cartridge.  Do some research though you will get lost in all of the options.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 03, 2018, 08:23:45 AM
Another vote for 300wm.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 03, 2018, 08:29:31 AM
I ordered another from mike last week.  :chuckle: I hate waiting
mines gonna be done before yours :chuckle: :hello:
:chuckle:

You're bound to get a lot of opinions. I'll throw mine in as well. All the calibers you mentioned will get the job done. Unless you have specific ballistic requirements, I think you should get what you prefer and would enjoy shooting.

I've owned both the 300 RUM and 338 RUM. I sold the 300 because I preferred the way the 338 shot and the ballistics of the larger bullets. However, if I was to choose again, I think I would choose a different 338 cartridge since the RUM has since fallen out of favor and brass is harder to obtain.
Check out adg Brass. They are making 338 rum brass
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: andersonjk4 on January 03, 2018, 08:42:35 AM
Another vote here for 300wm.  I shoot 200 grain Accubonds at about 2950 fps.  This load is fairly mild in my opinion.  My rifle has a 26" barrel and is about 10-10.5 pounds with scope and doesn't have a break.  I don't have any issues with the recoil and I'm a small guy. Recoil wise, I actually prefer to shoot my 300wm over my 30-06 with a standard sporter barrel shooting 165 grain bullets.   
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 03, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
The 300 Win and 215's have proven to definitely be a winning combination but I certainly wouldn't overlook the 30 Nosler.  It has a little more case capacity than the 300 Winnie so it'll give a slight edge in performance.  Also, the case is a fair bit shorter so depending on the action you use it'll allow you to use a longer OAL and still feed through the magazine.  Not really an issue though if you're using a custom or Rem 700 LA receiver.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 09:57:53 AM
Wow....so many great posts / responses.  I guess I have a lot more research to do.....problem being, everytime I research a caliber, I find 3 more to add to the list.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:   Example:  I am pretty sure I will have to own a 6.5-300wby some day.  My obsession continues to be expensive.  LOLOLOL

Leaning a little more toward the 300 win mag due to components and capabilities.  Just seems a little boring LOL.  Not sure I will go 100% custom build.....just becuase most factory rifles shoot so well these days.  I like the idea of saving money on a factory rifle and tweaking it to my likes over time. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 03, 2018, 12:14:02 PM
Have you looked at bergara rifles?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 12:19:35 PM
Have you looked at bergara rifles?

Never really researched them.  Have been looking at these rifles in multiple calibers.....Wby models: 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 12:22:27 PM
I would need to get the barrels threaded and a break placed on either of these rifles.  I would also consider the Savage Stealth....but they don't offer a stainless option.  I really want stainless.  I will be dipping my 6.5 stealth this year as the bluing is super prone to rust in wet weather.  I had to carry a WD40 rag in my pack this year while hunting Idaho to keep the surface rust at bay.   :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2018, 12:24:18 PM
Wow....so many great posts / responses.  I guess I have a lot more research to do.....problem being, everytime I research a caliber, I find 3 more to add to the list.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:   Example:  I am pretty sure I will have to own a 6.5-300wby some day.  My obsession continues to be expensive.  LOLOLOL

Leaning a little more toward the 300 win mag due to components and capabilities.  Just seems a little boring LOL.  Not sure I will go 100% custom build.....just becuase most factory rifles shoot so well these days.  I like the idea of saving money on a factory rifle and tweaking it to my likes over time. 
go buy Mitch Rolen a cup of coffee sometime☺
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
Also considering the Christensen arms classic stainless.....Anyone have any experience with this rifle? 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 12:26:19 PM
Wow....so many great posts / responses.  I guess I have a lot more research to do.....problem being, everytime I research a caliber, I find 3 more to add to the list.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:   Example:  I am pretty sure I will have to own a 6.5-300wby some day.  My obsession continues to be expensive.  LOLOLOL

Leaning a little more toward the 300 win mag due to components and capabilities.  Just seems a little boring LOL.  Not sure I will go 100% custom build.....just becuase most factory rifles shoot so well these days.  I like the idea of saving money on a factory rifle and tweaking it to my likes over time. 
go buy Mitch Rolen a cup of coffee sometime☺

I may have to....he does great work.   :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 03, 2018, 02:31:55 PM
Also considering the Christensen arms classic stainless.....Anyone have any experience with this rifle?

That would be great for hunting, but if you want to bust rocks way out there you might want the ELR
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 02:39:50 PM
Also considering the Christensen arms classic stainless.....Anyone have any experience with this rifle?

That would be great for hunting, but if you want to bust rocks way out there you might want the ELR

Not sold on carbon wrapped barrels......not sure why, just don't know alot about them.  I am considering the Mesa Long Range. 

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 03, 2018, 02:47:48 PM
Show love to the carbons.  Cool quicker. Lighter.  Shoot more
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 03, 2018, 02:57:14 PM
Show love to the carbons.  Cool quicker. Lighter.  Shoot more

Gun smith told me the carbon wrap makes it stiffer, so you get the extra stiffness of a bull barrel but without the weight. Who knows if that's all just a theory to sell though but it sounds good if it was true 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 03, 2018, 03:00:08 PM
True !  And stay cooler
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 03:08:22 PM
How durrable are the carbon wrapped barrels?  I'm not rough on my stuff, but heaven forbid someone took a fall in the woods....would the carbon wrap potentially fracture / crack? 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 03, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
How durrable are the carbon wrapped barrels?  I'm not rough on my stuff, but heaven forbid someone took a fall in the woods....would the carbon wrap potentially fracture / crack?
I can't speak to other barrels but the Hells Canyon Armory barrels are tough as they come.  Mike even fluted one just to see if it would stay wrapped and it still shot great.  All carbons are not created equal though
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2018, 03:31:31 PM
Also considering the Christensen arms classic stainless.....Anyone have any experience with this rifle?

That would be great for hunting, but if you want to bust rocks way out there you might want the ELR

Not sold on carbon wrapped barrels......not sure why, just don't know alot about them.  I am considering the Mesa Long Range. 




@Justin C.  had some input for me on the Christensen Arms guns a while back when I was thinking about one.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
Carbon is very durable John. Good for normal rate of fire. Had many turned and wrapped by Loomis. Light, stiff, and cool to the touch. But not meant for volumn shooting (auto or rapid fire). R&D on an ar Carbon wrapped barrel literally caught fire after 70 30 round pmags of 5.56 ball was run thru as fast as one can reload and pull the trigger. But, who fires like that normally lol!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 03, 2018, 07:07:12 PM
Carbon is very durable John. Good for normal rate of fire. Had many turned and wrapped by Loomis. Light, stiff, and cool to the touch. But not meant for volumn shooting (auto or rapid fire). R&D on an ar Carbon wrapped barrel literally caught fire after 70 30 round pmags of 5.56 ball was run thru as fast as one can reload and pull the trigger. But, who fires like that normally lol!

2100 rounds ????  Would a non-carbon barrel handle that ?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Encore 280 on January 03, 2018, 07:32:52 PM
What about GunWerks or are they all hype? They put the Huskimaw scopes on their long range rigs.I know nothing about them just thought I'd chime in. :dunno:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 07:40:42 PM
I did some serious research into carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Made some calls to guy well in the "Know" when it comes to Firearms. Here are the facts and why I'm not purchasing one.

When they take the blank and turn it down as far as they do for the carbon wrap process they take allot of steel away. It can be argued that the carbon wrap process stiffens it up again.

WHY DO IT?

Now you take a stainless barrel of the same contour as a carbon wrapped barrel, the stainless barrel will be way stiffer than the carbon wrapped barrel.

Now you put a temperature gauge on the outside of both barrels and fire a 20 shot string through both. Sure the stainless barrel will heat up firston the surface because it conducts heat more efficiently.

The carbon barrel with a heat gauge on the outside of the barrel will take much longer for the carbon wrap o transfer heat to the outside due to its composition.

HERE'S THE CATCH!!!!!

While it may take longer for the heat to make it to the outside temperature gauge of the carbon fiber wrapped barrel, during that 20 shot string you are super HEATING the turned down barrel steel under the carbon. Way more so than a stainless barrel of the same contour as the carbon wrapped barrel.

Heat erodes a barrels throat, barrel life all depends on throat erosion! Period! No and's, if's, what's or But's. It's a fact jack!

Now here is the reality of it all. If you think it's cool, like the look of it. Then your good to go. If you think a carbon fiber barrel will outlast the same contour barrel in steel. Shot for shot when shooting longer stings or when it comes to heat your mistaken.

If your going to shoot a carbon wrapped barrel moderately and not heat that thinner turned down core barrel up, you are good to go.

Next question is:

What's the point of a carbon wrapped barrel if you can't shoot it high volume? Might as well go with a sporter contour standard stainless or CM barrel.

That's why these $800.00 to a $1000.00 carbon wrapped blanks people are getting spun up are going to crap after 200 rounds or so. You can't pound away with them without super heating the core steel and eroding the throat.

Shoot them sainly sure, and your good. Think you can shoot them a bunch and with long strings of sustained fire your sadly mistaken.

I personally watched a new carbon fiber barrel chambered in 25-06 AI get completely roasted/ shot out by a guy on a prairie dog town in two days in less than 400 rounds. Too many rounds , to quick on a thin barrel core. Sure it took a bit for that outside carbon to warm up but that steel core was smoking and the throat was gone!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 07:47:04 PM
I did some serious research into carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Made some calls to guy well in the "Know" when it comes to Firearms. Here are the facts and why I'm not purchasing one.

When they take the blank and turn it down as far as they do for the carbon wrap process they take allot of steel away. It can be argued that the carbon wrap process stiffens it up again.

WHY DO IT?

Now you take a stainless barrel of the same contour as a carbon wrapped barrel, the stainless barrel will be way stiffer than the carbon wrapped barrel.

Now you put a temperature gauge on the outside of both barrels and fire a 20 shot string through both. Sure the stainless barrel will heat up firston the surface because it conducts heat more efficiently.

The carbon barrel with a heat gauge on the outside of the barrel will take much longer for the carbon wrap o transfer heat to the outside due to its composition.

HERE'S THE CATCH!!!!!

While it may take longer for the heat to make it to the outside temperature gauge of the carbon fiber wrapped barrel, during that 20 shot string you are super HEATING the turned down barrel steel under the carbon. Way more so than a stainless barrel of the same contour as the carbon wrapped barrel.

Heat erodes a barrels throat, barrel life all depends on throat erosion! Period! No and, it's, what's or But's. It's a fact jack!

Now here is the reality of it all. If you think it's cool, like the look of it. Then your good to go. If you think a carbon fiber barrel will outlast the same contour barrel in steel. Shot for shot when shooting longer stings or when it comes to heat your mistaken.

If your going to shoot a carbon wrapped barrel moderately and not heat that thinner turned down core barrel up, you are good to go.

Next question is:

What's the point of a carbon wrapped barrel if you can't shoot it high volume? Might as well go with a spotter contour standard stainless or CM barrel.

That why theses $800.00 to a $1000.00 carbon wrapped blanks people are getting spun up are going to crap after 200 rounds or so. You can't pound away with them without super beating the core steel and eroding the throat.

Shoot them sainly sure, and your good. Think you can shoot them a bunch and with long strings of sustained fire your sadly mistaken.

I personally watched a new carbon fiber barrel chambered in 25-06 AI get completely roasted/ shot out by a guy on a prairie dog town in two days in less than 400 rounds. Too many rounds , to quick on a thin barrel core. Sure it took a bit for that outside carbon to warm up but that steel core was smoking and the throat was gone!

Read a very similar post on rockslide....I believe....and have ruled out carbon.  The only pro to them is a little bit lighter set up.   If I want to hunt with a light rifle, I wlll carry my kimber mountain ascent.  Thanks for the write up.  :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 03, 2018, 07:51:49 PM
If I were biggerhammer I wouldn't buy one either, most folks who plunk down the $ for a semi custom only zero it, maybe a few more, and then check zero again (maybe) once a year.  that's it, most don't even do a 20 shot break in period.  With the carbon barrel they get a little bit less weight, a temperature stabilized barrel, and a lot of bling factor which is important to some people.

you were so concerned with the heat retention you didn't address a stabilized barrel going from an 80 degree truck cab to a 10 degree weather outside, the carbon will insulate the barrel both ways.  Who cares about the 20th shot when your filling an OIL tag.

and I didn't run off to a google search either   





Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 08:01:41 PM
If I were biggerhammer I wouldn't buy one either, most folks who plunk down the $ for a semi custom only zero it, maybe a few more, and then check zero again (maybe) once a year.  that's it, most don't even do a 20 shot break in period.  With the carbon barrel they get a little bit less weight, a temperature stabilized barrel, and a lot of bling factor which is important to some people.

you were so concerned with the heat retention you didn't address a stabilized barrel going from an 80 degree truck cab to a 10 degree weather outside, the carbon will insulate the barrel both ways.  Who cares about the 20th shot when your filling an OIL tag.

and I didn't run off to a google search either

I agree with what you have to say.  I shoot a lot...well alot more than the average shooter.  For example....my 6.5 creedmoore which is a year old has 400-500 rounds down range in load developement and long range practice / learning.  The rifle I am building will likely be shot as much.  I do have some rifles that are lucky to average 20 rounds a year....my safe queens.  But my hunting rifles get a ton of range time....I refuse to be that guy....yeah we all know them....the one that can't hit the broad side of a barn when hunting. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 08:03:50 PM
If I were biggerhammer I wouldn't buy one either, most folks who plunk down the $ for a semi custom only zero it, maybe a few more, and then check zero again (maybe) once a year.  that's it, most don't even do a 20 shot break in period.  With the carbon barrel they get a little bit less weight, a temperature stabilized barrel, and a lot of bling factor which is important to some people.

you were so concerned with the heat retention you didn't address a stabilized barrel going from an 80 degree truck cab to a 10 degree weather outside, the carbon will insulate the barrel both ways.  Who cares about the 20th shot when your filling an OIL tag.

and I didn't run off to a google search either

Exactly! People just need to understand the he facts on carbon fiber wrapped barrels! They aren't magic!

Every thread you read people keep mentioning how they dissipate heat quicker, that's false. People in turn think this is great I can shoot a bunch before my barrel heats up. In a hunting rig with standard use they are fine. The way I see it. Why have this monster wrapped barrel that weighs as much as a #3 sporter? What's the point. But I understand cool crap and the look of a rifle but I shoot my stuff a bunch. I may put 300-400 rounds through a rifle in a week.

I already have the back up barrel sitting on the bench for the barrel I'm  shooting.

Don't  worry about the "Google" thing it wasn't directed at you. We all know who the "Google" experts are.👍

 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2018, 08:09:16 PM
As KF said, there are some good benifets to a PROPERLY wrapped barrel. Weight is paramount when spending a week or more at high altitude. I allows one to hunt farther and higher for sure. Accuracy can be as good as the best non wrapped rifles. One special Christiansen would 1/2" pretty consistent at 300 yards. Now, something you may put several hundred rounds thru in a day, not a smart investment at all.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 03, 2018, 08:17:33 PM
I've done a good amount of digging/research on many different CF wrapped barrels and come to nearly the exact same conclusion that Biggerhammer has.  Now, Proof will largely disagree with a lot of these statements because they are of the opinion their CF barrels cool faster than an all steel barrel but IMO it's only because they have less steel that retains the heat so they also heat up faster too.

For me, I like the look of a Sendero size contour over a smaller contour, especially when you're using a muzzle brake.  To me, they just look better when the brake matches the countour of the barrel and if you can do it and lose a couple pounds out of the rifle, even better. 

I can even live with CF wrapped barrels costing twice as much.  I could probably even be ok with them possibly not lasting as long.  BUT, what I can't live with is that they all seem to have a greater POI shift than an all steel barrel as they get some heat in them and even though I really like how they look, that POI shift thing is a deal breaker for me.

I believe Travis w/RBros has hung a few Proof barrels, maybe he will see this and share some of his personnel experiences with CR wrapped barrels.  I know Shawn w/Defensive Edge Rifles gave one a go some time back and it didn't turn out as well as he'd hoped but he was trying to be optimistic about them and I believe he has a couple builds he's giving them another try on.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 03, 2018, 08:23:32 PM
Another reason to go carbon is a full size brake I was also told by a smith. I didn't on my build but that's a reason.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 08:30:45 PM
Another reason to go carbon is a full size brake I was also told by a smith. I didn't on my build but that's a reason.

A full size brake. You can put a brake on anything?

Besides, brakes are for sissy's!

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo-41_zps01c5dc5d.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-41_zps01c5dc5d.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo-52_zps7fe37953.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-52_zps7fe37953.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 03, 2018, 08:39:50 PM
Another reason to go carbon is a full size brake I was also told by a smith. I didn't on my build but that's a reason.

A full size brake. You can put a brake on anything?

Besides, brakes are for sissy's!

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo-41_zps01c5dc5d.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-41_zps01c5dc5d.jpg.html)

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/photo-52_zps7fe37953.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-52_zps7fe37953.jpg.html)

Lol that pic is great with the skirt. I'm not sure that's just what Travis at Rbros told me when I asked the benefits of carbon fiber
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:27:28 PM
I'm sure if you throw 5K down, Travis will take care of you.😉
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 03, 2018, 09:36:33 PM
You're painting carbon barrels with entirely too big a brush.  While I agree with your sentiments for the way other companies wrap carbon fiber around their blanks, a lot of what you say simply doesn't apply to my carbons.  I'll address each one of your points below.  I don't do this to be confrontational, but mainly to educate and dispell some of the myths regarding carbon fiber.

I did some serious research into carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Made some calls to guy well in the "Know" when it comes to Firearms. Here are the facts and why I'm not purchasing one.

When they take the blank and turn it down as far as they do for the carbon wrap process they take allot of steel away. It can be argued that the carbon wrap process stiffens it up again.
It does, there's no doubt about it.  I did a rigidity test by hanging a 25 oz weight off the end of my various carbon barrel contours and here's what I found.
One of my UNWRAPPED 7mm barrel cores with a muzzle od of .650" (steel wall thickness of .183") deflected .028" when the weight was hung.  That same barrel, wrapped to a light sendero contour (.083" carbon thickness added per side) deflected .014".  Adding nearly 50% of the volume of the steel doubled the stiffness of the barrel. 

WHY DO IT?

Now you take a stainless barrel of the same contour as a carbon wrapped barrel, the stainless barrel will be way stiffer than the carbon wrapped barrel.
While steel by VOLUME is stiffer, CF by weight has the upper hand.  Your statement still rings true, though the same steel barrel will be much heavier.  Benchmark lists their sendero contour as 4.6 lbs.  My Senderos are anywhere from 3.1-3.5 lbs.  See my response above, I'm able to double rigidity with less CF added by volume


Now you put a temperature gauge on the outside of both barrels and fire a 20 shot string through both. Sure the stainless barrel will heat up firston the surface because it conducts heat more efficiently.
If you are comparing resin saturated CF barrels to steel barrels, then yes I agree.  However not all carbons are created equal.  Carbon fiber as a pure material actually is a FANTASTIC conductor.  However the resins used in carbon fiber are the OPPOSITE.  So the more resin you have, the more your barrel is going to trap heat.   PROOF barrels are filament wound, they have a minimum 60% resin ratio and their fiber is oriented in a helical pattern around the barrel.  As opposed to my barrels which have PARALLEL fiber orientation (IE: adds the most rigidity possible to the bore), and I'm running under 35% resin ratio.  This means I have more fiber for stiffness, better fiber orientation for stiffness, and LESS resin to trap heat.  You shoot one of my barrels and the fiber in front of the steel tennon will be hotter to the touch than the steel tennon.  That is fact and there are multiple people on here that can vouch for that.
Feel free to call Eric Goss at Axisworks in AZ who's changed entirely from Proof barrels to mine because they dissipate heat twice as fast, and that's in AZ heat.

The carbon barrel with a heat gauge on the outside of the barrel will take much longer for the carbon wrap o transfer heat to the outside due to its composition.

HERE'S THE CATCH!!!!!

While it may take longer for the heat to make it to the outside temperature gauge of the carbon fiber wrapped barrel, during that 20 shot string you are super HEATING the turned down barrel steel under the carbon. Way more so than a stainless barrel of the same contour as the carbon wrapped barrel.
Again, all depends on fiber orientation and resin ratios.  See above

Heat erodes a barrels throat, barrel life all depends on throat erosion! Period! No and's, if's, what's or But's. It's a fact jack!
No arguments there

Now here is the reality of it all. If you think it's cool, like the look of it. Then your good to go. If you think a carbon fiber barrel will outlast the same contour barrel in steel. Shot for shot when shooting longer stings or when it comes to heat your mistaken.
I disagree for reasons above.  While I don't necessarily think that carbon will extend the life of a barrel, (unlike Christensen who claims they're barrels dissipate heat 25% faster than steel, so they get 25% better barrel life.  That's a joke, it's clearly not a 1:1 static relalationship between percentage points of heat dissipation and barrel life.

If your going to shoot a carbon wrapped barrel moderately and not heat that thinner turned down core barrel up, you are good to go.

Next question is:

What's the point of a carbon wrapped barrel if you can't shoot it high volume? Might as well go with a sporter contour standard stainless or CM barrel.
With the right CF barrel you can, I've multiple customers who run 10-20 shot strings on their rifles and they don't open up.  One thing people don't realize about CF is it nearly never expands/contracts with temperature fluctuations.  Combined with a good cooling barrel, they have clear benefits.

That's why these $800.00 to a $1000.00 carbon wrapped blanks people are getting spun up are going to crap after 200 rounds or so. You can't pound away with them without super heating the core steel and eroding the throat.

Shoot them sainly sure, and your good. Think you can shoot them a bunch and with long strings of sustained fire your sadly mistaken.

I personally watched a new carbon fiber barrel chambered in 25-06 AI get completely roasted/ shot out by a guy on a prairie dog town in two days in less than 400 rounds. Too many rounds , to quick on a thin barrel core. Sure it took a bit for that outside carbon to warm up but that steel core was smoking and the throat was gone!
Not surprised in the least for traditionally or better known CF wrapped barrels.


Here's a quick google search result to support my findings.  https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conductivity.html
A quote from that link when asked if CF is a good heat conductor:
"As usual the answer is "it depends." The short answer is NO not when regular carbon fiber is made up in regular epoxy and expected to conduct heat across the thickness. IF a highly carbonized pan fiber with graphite or diamond added, is measured for heat transmission in the length of the fiber it is very good and can rival and exceed copper."

Look at the various values for heat conductivity and density of various materials listed on that link.  "Carbon Fiber in Resin" has a conductivity value of 5-7 "in plane" and ".5-.8" in transverse.  That's why helically wound CF barrels trap heat so terribly.  However carbon fiber as a pure material has a conductive value ranging from 21-180... Aluminum has a value of 210 for reference... That's pretty good and it all comes back to fiber orientation, and resin content.  Because my fibers are oriented parallel with the bore, and I run a full sized steel tennon, heat gets pulled along the length of those fibers towards the muzzle, away from the throat.  Heat DISSIPATES to colder areas.  That is fact.

Here are some rough numbers for another stiffness test:
When comparing a 4 lbs 1 oz 6.5mm "MTU" contour barrel to a 3 lbs 11.4 oz 6.5mm "Sendero" contour barrel, the MTU deflected .0045" and the sendero deflected .009".  That's double the stiffness for an added 5.6 oz.  Think of my carbon fiber like down in a sleeping bag.  A few oz of overfill does wonders for the effectiveness.  Same with CF, a few oz of fiber does wonders for rigidity.

If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask.

Mike
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:40:11 PM
Their not "YOUR" Carbin's, you spin them . The brush wasn't too broad it was spot on. I understand your position, it $$$ . I'm in business for myself. The bottom line is the bottom line. Which is $$$$$. Spin them up, sell them. Just don't over rate them.👍

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 03, 2018, 09:43:26 PM
Their not "YOUR" carbons.


BS.  Are Rbros "Rogue" actions "their" actions?  Same thing here.

That's a ridiculous response...  :chuckle:

Mike
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:44:52 PM
Their not "YOUR" carbons.


*censored*.  Are Rbros "Rogue" actions "their" actions?  Same thing here.

Mike

No! Their defiance. I've just never heard a smith of mine spinning up a barrel I sent him. Rather it be one of the following call it his barrel.

Mike Rock
Krieger
Shilen
Hart
Schneider
Obermeyer
Lilja
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 03, 2018, 09:45:35 PM
Their not "YOUR" carbons.


*censored*.  Are Rbros "Rogue" actions "their" actions?  Same thing here.

Mike

No!

Can you get "MY" barrels from someone other than myself?

Mike
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 03, 2018, 09:49:23 PM
Their not "YOUR" Carbin's, you spin them . The brush wasn't too broad it was spot on. I understand your position, it $$$ . I'm in business for myself. The bottom line is the bottom line. Which is $$$$$. Spin them up, sell them. Just don't over rate them.👍

Typical emotional response backed up by zero experience or knowledge of subject.  I tried to be civil and presented a very clear path as to the scientific facts of CF wrapped barrels and what/is making a difference is different barrels.  But you're obviously correct because you "called someone" and they told you about it.

Mike
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 03, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
Their not "YOUR" carbons.


*censored*.  Are Rbros "Rogue" actions "their" actions?  Same thing here.

Mike

No!

Can you get "MY" barrels from someone other than myself?

Mike
the answer would be no.  No you can not.  I've put some extensive shot strings through my 300 and I know crabcreekhunter has as well.  They will not open up and that barrel dumps heat fast! 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
Their not "YOUR" carbons.


*censored*.  Are Rbros "Rogue" actions "their" actions?  Same thing here.

Mike

No!

Can you get "MY" barrels from someone other than myself?

Mike

Everything is rebranded. You weren't carbon fiber wrapping barrels out by Malaga WA.

Once you know and are involved in the industry. People would be amazed at what comes off the same machines or from the same companies. Just with someone else's name stamped on it or better yet no name at all.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:54:08 PM
Their not "YOUR" Carbin's, you spin them . The brush wasn't too broad it was spot on. I understand your position, it $$$ . I'm in business for myself. The bottom line is the bottom line. Which is $$$$$. Spin them up, sell them. Just don't over rate them.👍

Typical emotional response backed up by zero experience or knowledge of subject.  I tried to be civil and presented a very clear path as to the scientific facts of CF wrapped barrels and what/is making a difference is different barrels.  But you're obviously correct because you "called someone" and they told you about it.

Mike

Sure that's it! Your response was emotional. Mine was fact. You enjoy your evening.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 03, 2018, 09:57:42 PM

Everything is rebranded. You weren't carbon fiber wrapping barrels out by Malaga WA.

Once you know and are involved in the industry. People would be amazed at what comes off the same machines or from the same companies. Just with someone else's name stamped on it or better yet no name at all.

Again, broad brush bud. Just because itís not specíd and produced in my shop, doesnít mean I havenít been working hand in hand with a composites company/engineer for 5+ years developing these barrels.

And I do receive/QC/machine blanks as well as finish out barrels in house. But the bulk of the work is done by a company I contract out to wrap my blanks.

Hereís an MTU contour Iím finishing out right now to send to my Canadian distributor.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/58e28960ebbc0632bc91584e6f0f7916.jpg)

A mix of finished and unfinished HCA blanks waiting to be chambered or finished and sent to customers.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/933f18ba6cd2e261c31ab1b91b38a836.jpg)

Tell me again how these arenít my Barrel?

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 09:58:57 PM
Awesome! Guess I'm just used to hearing. My, my, my from my 10 year old daughter.😊
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Eric M on January 03, 2018, 10:03:56 PM
Some good stuff right here
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 03, 2018, 10:05:21 PM
So I'm still trying to put the pieces together here.  You haven't actually used one of Mike's barrels but you can state with absolute certainty that what you say about C.F. barrels is pure fact? 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 10:27:56 PM
So I'm still trying to put the pieces together here.  You haven't actually used one of Mike's barrels but you can state with absolute certainty that what you say about C.F. barrels is pure fact?

Uuuuuh? Let me do the math. C.F. barrels are C.F. barrels. Mike's, not Mike's or another Mike's. It's a C.F. barrel produced on another manufacturer's equipment. Am I missing something?

Maybe I should claim every Polygonal barrel I've ever slummed, sold  and or shot which is a CHIT load as "Mine".

(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k269/landonmoses/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsc1e1304a.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsc1e1304a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 03, 2018, 10:40:34 PM
So I'm still trying to put the pieces together here.  You haven't actually used one of Mike's barrels but you can state with absolute certainty that what you say about C.F. barrels is pure fact?

Uuuuuh? Let me do the math. C.F. barrels are C.F. barrels. Mike's, not Mike's or another Mike's. It's a C.F. barrel produced on another manufacturer's equipment. Am I missing something?

Maybe I should claim every Polygonal barrel I've ever slummed, sold  and or shot which is a CHIT load as "Mine".
  So thats a no you haven't shot any?

 He just explained the differences between the barrels he finishes and chambers (hope that wording was less offensive to you) and other C.F. barrels yet your only rebuttal is to point out "they aren't his barels". 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 10:46:00 PM
At the end of the day this is what I've learned to be fact.   Steel barrels have been working for decades.  There is no debate that a quality steel barrel that is well taken care of will last at least as long as a carbon wrap barrel.

Carbon wrapped barrels still have not 100% proven themselves to the market.   They at best are still being mastered or refined, otherwise they would be the gold standard.  They definitely have their spot in the market and have some hard core followers......call it a niche segment if you will. 

Though carbon would PROBABLY work for me......I KNOW steel will.  So.....thanks for all the friendly debate.  I will go with a steel barrel. 

NOW CAN WE GET THIS BACK ON TRACK........what rifle???  Pretty sure the caliber has been decided (99% on 300 win mag).  Barrel length will be 26".  What rate of twist for a 200-210 grain bullet.......9?? Or 10?? 

 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 03, 2018, 10:47:48 PM
Oh hi jrebel,  totally forgot you were here  :hello:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 10:51:38 PM
So I'm still trying to put the pieces together here.  You haven't actually used one of Mike's barrels but you can state with absolute certainty that what you say about C.F. barrels is pure fact?

Uuuuuh? Let me do the math. C.F. barrels are C.F. barrels. Mike's, not Mike's or another Mike's. It's a C.F. barrel produced on another manufacturer's equipment. Am I missing something?

Maybe I should claim every Polygonal barrel I've ever slummed, sold  and or shot which is a CHIT load as "Mine".
  So thats a no you haven't shot any?

 He just explained the differences between the barrels he finishes and chambers (hope that wording was less offensive to you) and other C.F. barrels yet your only rebuttal is to point out "they aren't his barels".

If you read the prior posts. Your argument is redundant.

Still.....Again.. They are NOT his barrels. I can put lipstick on a pig all night looooooong! it doesn't change the fact it's a C.F. barrel by another manufacturer.

Wouldn't last for jack with the amount of junk I send down range. More power to the guy that can peddle it.

Why have a Sendero contour carbon fiber barrel when a #3 sporter weight will do the same in a hunting situation?

Only guy coming out ahead is the guy getting paid. FACT!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 03, 2018, 10:55:16 PM
Oh hi jrebel,  totally forgot you were here  :hello:

Well you know.......a guy steps away for a couple hours and the pissing contest begins.  Kind of surprised a sponsor would get down in the weeds with another member to sling mud.  Probably should have taken the high ground.  Both had valid points and should have let it go at that.  Not sure what skin Karl had in the game but two on one is kind of not fair.  Oh well......back on track. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Curly on January 03, 2018, 10:58:19 PM
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/733360137

Fierce might be worth a look. Looks to be pretty good for the money.


Chambered in 300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM
FIERCE'S OWN TRIAD ACTION, Chrome Moly, Cerekoted in Titanium Gray, Polished One-piece Bolt, and Fierce's LastGuard Weatherproof Application
26Ē Hand-lapped, Stainless Steel, Match-grade, Button Rifled Barrel, Target Crown, with 1-10 Twist, With Fierce's LastGuard Weatherproof Application
Pillar Bedded
FIERCE's Proprietary CARBON FIBER Monte Carlo-style Stock, Black with Grey Spiderwebbing
FIERCE's 42-Hole, 15-degree Forward Slant Muzzle Brake - Up To 55% Recoil Reduction
Adjustable (2-4 lbs), Match-grade Trigger
Three-position Safety
FIERCE's Speed-box Magazine
FIERCE's Scope Bases (Picatinny-style) INCLUDED
1Ē Recoil Pad
Weight = 7lbs
Comes With 1/2" Group Accuracy Guarantee

$2,000
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2018, 11:05:09 PM
Back on track with the discussion at hand. Take the carbon fiber pissing match elsewhere.
Thanks,
The management.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 11:16:33 PM
Oh hi jrebel,  totally forgot you were here  :hello:

Well you know.......a guy steps away for a couple hours and the pissing contest begins.  Kind of surprised a sponsor would get down in the weeds with another member to sling mud.  Probably should have taken the high ground.  Both had valid points and should have let it go at that.  Not sure what skin Karl had in the game but two on one is kind of not fair.  Oh well......back on track.

WoW! When I read that I felt like I was watching CNN. Go with a .300 Win Mag and call it good. It isn't overly complicated and you have plenty of factory ammo offerings in case reading everyone else's opinion takes up your time.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 03, 2018, 11:22:48 PM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half. 

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Curly on January 03, 2018, 11:38:58 PM
BTW- I really enjoyed the discussion on CF barrels. I thought it was all good info on both sides. :twocents:
 :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 11:42:05 PM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half.

I'll take it! You bring that rifle over or I'll come there. If you can run a 20 shot string under 1" at 100 yards, it should be everything you expected. I'll put 1K on the table, along with your 1K. 👍
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 03, 2018, 11:45:31 PM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half.

I'll take it! You bring that rifle over or I'll come there. If you can run a 20 shot string under 1" at 100 yards, it should be everything you expected. I'll put 1K on the table, along with your 1K. 👍

what time frame?  20 shots in 1hr   or  20 shots in 20 minutes?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 03, 2018, 11:53:27 PM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half.

I'll take it! You bring that rifle over or I'll come there. If you can run a 20 shot string under 1" at 100 yards, it should be everything you expected. I'll put 1K on the table, along with your 1K. 👍

what time frame?  20 shots in 1hr   or  20 shots in 20 minutes?

What part about a 20 shot string do you not understand. Ooooooh maybe this is the Clinton definition of "String" ? Do I need a attorney? I have them but I would rather spend my money on primers, powder, bullets and cute things that look good and smell better than Moose in the rut.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2018, 11:58:57 PM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half. 


Yep, his barrels are pretty amazing. Mike has perfected the lay up/resin application. Not all wraps are created equal!

 Johnny, if not a build, there are many sporters, when chambered in an appropriate caliber, can fill those needs with little or no tweeking. Just get a few to your shoulder to feel what fits. I know how you like your Savages👍
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 04, 2018, 12:24:29 AM
When I had my last magnum rifle built I wanted something not over 10# w scope that I could shoot 20 rounds through without having to wait 5 or 10 mins for barrel to cool between shots like I have to w fluted sporter barrel on my 338-378 for 1/2 moa accuracy.   I got one of Mikes barrels and it does exactly what I hoped.  The STEEL cools so quick my chamber evev stays much cooler now.  I wouldnt have believed it either if I hadnt seen it.  I donít abuse it but its got a few hundred rounds down the pipe.  Love the cold bore performance and I cut shooting time by more than half.

I'll take it! You bring that rifle over or I'll come there. If you can run a 20 shot string under 1" at 100 yards, it should be everything you expected. I'll put 1K on the table, along with your 1K. 👍

what time frame?  20 shots in 1hr   or  20 shots in 20 minutes?

What part about a 20 shot string do you not understand. Ooooooh maybe this is the Clinton definition of "String" ? Do I need a attorney? I have them but I would rather spend my money on primers, powder, bullets and cute things that look good and smell better than Moose in the rut.
I was going to call it the 20/20 challenge

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 04, 2018, 12:34:33 AM
Your on to something?

There you go. Maybe you can start the 20/20 challenge shoot.


Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jackelope on January 04, 2018, 07:15:14 AM
BTW- I really enjoyed the discussion on CF barrels. I thought it was all good info on both sides. :twocents:
 :tup:

Someone is more than welcome to start a carbon fiber barrel thread. It's clearly off track of what the OP had in mind and he's made it clear he doesn't have any interest in a CF barrel.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 04, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
What's your budget on this rig?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 04, 2018, 09:00:07 AM
NOW CAN WE GET THIS BACK ON TRACK........what rifle???  Pretty sure the caliber has been decided (99% on 300 win mag).  Barrel length will be 26".  What rate of twist for a 200-210 grain bullet.......9?? Or 10??

A 1-10 twist will be plenty fast enough for those bullets and even heavier, too.

In a 26in. tube built gun, my vote would be for the 30 Nosler followed close by a 300 Win.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 09:05:07 AM
I shot 215 bergers out of a 10 tw rum for years with good accuracy.
They work fine, but if doing a custom build I would reccomend a 9 or 9.5.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 04, 2018, 09:14:13 AM
I shot 215 bergers out of a 10 tw rum for years with good accuracy.
They work fine, but if doing a custom build I would reccomend a 9 or 9.5.

Just asking, but why do you think you need anything faster than a 1-10 to shoot the 200-215's?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 04, 2018, 09:21:27 AM
To be stable in the worst conditions. I.e. Very cold dry air at low elevation high preasure situations and also can improve the transition to subsonic from super sonic
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 04, 2018, 09:25:09 AM
the browing xbolt hells canyon in 300 winmag is 1:9.5 with 26 inch barrel

their A3-5 is 28 inch barrel and 1:10
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 09:26:37 AM
 :yeah:
Like i said i shot the 215 for years since they came out with a 10 and was plenty happy but when I had a custom made I went to 9 to make sure I would be good. And also in case I ever wanted to shoot the 230s. I realize guys are shooting those from 10 also. . It certainly wonít cause any problems with the heavys in a 9 vs a 10. Not sure on anything lighter tho.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 09:31:06 AM
Does anyone know mag box length on the brownings?
Just curious if you can mag feed a long loaded 215.

They are long bullets. Mine are loaded to 3.74 ish oal.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 04, 2018, 09:31:09 AM
I'm shooting the 230's from a 10tw and they work very well but I'm also shooting them a couple hundred fps faster than a RUM, too.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 04, 2018, 09:32:19 AM
What's your budget on this rig?

I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
What's your budget on this rig?

I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56.
Iíd have a hard time plunking 2500 down on a factory rifle personally. Definitely get with some builders and explore options before you decide on that.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 04, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
What's your budget on this rig?

I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56. 
stock or chassi?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 09:39:08 AM
I'm shooting the 230's from a 10tw and they work very well but I'm also shooting them a couple hundred fps faster than a RUM, too.
I donít doubt it at all. Itís known they work in a 10. But with the option of faster I couldnít see a downside.
Iíve seen guys shooting the 215 from a 10 at 308 velocity with great results too.

Fast 230s gotta be pretty dang awesome!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: KFhunter on January 04, 2018, 09:40:06 AM
Does anyone know mag box length on the brownings?
Just curious if you can mag feed a long loaded 215.

They are long bullets. Mine are loaded to 3.74 ish oal.

that ain't going to fit, not even close
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 04, 2018, 09:43:33 AM
What's your budget on this rig?

I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56.

You should be able to have a pretty nice semi custom built on a Rem 700 LA for $2500.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 04, 2018, 09:47:21 AM
What's your budget on this rig?

I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56. 
stock or chassi?

Either.....really like the chassis on my savage stealth but have stocks on everything else.  Not 100% decided one way or the other. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: MichaelJ on January 04, 2018, 09:50:08 AM


I was thinking $2,500 for rifle.  Though this is a very soft number.  I have found rifles ranging from $1,200 to $3,000.....once I hit the 3k number I should just go 100% custom. 

My scope will be a nightforce shv 5-20x56.

You can get into a custom 300 Win (or any other magnum/non mag caliber) for $3000 or Under if youíre smart with components.  Could look something like this:

Stiller Predator action $940
Mcmillan Gamewarden/GameHunter: $600
Benchmark #4 non fluted: $335
PTG bottom metal plus Wyatts box and follower: $175
Mbm 4 port baby beast brake: $90
TriggerTech trigger: $180
Labor to put it all together including cerakote: $800.

$3120 total. Kind of a no frills bare bones custom build with a 6 month lead time but itís still an option. Or go with a stock from stockys and cut that lead time down to 4.5 months.

And I apologize for the offtrack C.F. discussion. My intention was merely to educate and offer up information on a subject I know a fair amount on. Hope you find the rifle thatís perfect for you!

Mike





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 04, 2018, 09:57:22 AM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jasnt on January 04, 2018, 09:59:53 AM
I've been eye balling these for a while now.  Much nicer than today's rem 700's. As much as I love rem their qc has sluffed off last few years

http://www.bergarausa.com/bergara_premier_series_long_range_rifle.php
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 04, 2018, 12:52:47 PM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

You may have shot a .87inch group once with it but does it repeat that over and over at 300 yards?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 04, 2018, 01:03:00 PM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

You may have shot a .87inch group once with it but does it repeat that over and over at 300 yards?

So the .87 is my best, but will repeat sub 1.5" with all groups if I do my job. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Duckslayer89 on January 04, 2018, 01:05:15 PM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

You may have shot a .87inch group once with it but does it repeat that over and over at 300 yards?

So the .87 is my best, but will repeat sub 1.5" with all groups if I do my job.

I'd be happy with that. Been looking for a little 6.5 lately for a family gun. What model savage? I've been looking at the Ruger American  predator
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 04, 2018, 01:10:39 PM
Savage Stealth 6.5 creedmoor topped with a NF shv 5-20x56. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: highside74 on January 04, 2018, 01:12:46 PM
Ruger American Predator in the 6.5 has some really good reviews for accuracy and the price range is excellent.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 04, 2018, 01:23:57 PM
I have a savage long range hunter 6.5-284 that is a real good shooter 1/2-5/8 moa consistently and am selling it to fund my next custom with zero regrets or second thoughts. A custom can be exactly what you want in every way possible.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: opdinkslayer on January 04, 2018, 01:29:23 PM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

You may have shot a .87inch group once with it but does it repeat that over and over at 300 yards?

So the .87 is my best, but will repeat sub 1.5" with all groups if I do my job.

I'd be happy with that. Been looking for a little 6.5 lately for a family gun. What model savage? I've been looking at the Ruger American  predator

Take a look at the new savage 110 accufit models. The tactical dessert tan or predator in 6.5 creedmoor would be pretty sweet and an upgrade over an ruger American in every way but cost.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Reidus on January 05, 2018, 09:44:53 AM
The problem I have with custom builds is simply the cost.....for very little benefit to accuracy.  My 6.5 creedmoor savage will puch .87" groups at 300 yards with my hand loads pushing 140 grain accubonds 2710 fps.  This is with me behind the wheel....and I guarentee I am the weakest link.  A custom may give me a smother bolt or lighter rifle, but accuracy surely can't get much better with me pulling the trigger.  Maybe I am wrong....convince me to buy / build a custom that will take the place of all my old warhorses.   :tup:

I think you'll notice more of a difference in accuracy with the bigger calibers. Usually the harder the they recoil....the harder they are to get to shoot. Find an off the shelf 300 magnum that shoots that well.... It's a little more rare. I also think a custom gun that's put together right is going to shoot more consistent in different conditions and strings of shots due to less stress in all the components. factory guns tend to be a lot more finicky. Also if you get a chamber that's spec'd right and custom dies to match it, you probably won't be able to wear out your brass.   :twocents:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 09, 2018, 09:16:08 AM
Have you made a decision which direction?
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 09, 2018, 09:45:20 AM
Have you made a decision which direction?

No.....took a week off to be sicker than a dog!!   :bash: :bash:  Now on the mend and back to some research.  Pretty sure I am not going 100% custom at this point.  Now just need to put hands on rifles as I see them and see what feels good.  Wish they made the Savage in a stainless...I would buy the 300 win mag lr and put it on a chassis and call it good.   I have seen how they shoot and the cost is right (though this is not my primary concern).  I just really want a stainless rifle as it will be used in inclimate weather. 
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: mountainman on January 09, 2018, 04:02:56 PM
Shoot, hope your on the mend! Flu is never fun 😞
You know how I like .338 caliber. I would opt for a semi-custom on a stainless Rem action in the Edge.  Does what the 300 win will do, and much more with more authority. They can be light, they can be heavy. But they reach and hit hard👍
You pick barrel, chassis, trigger and your good to go.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 09, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
Shoot, hope your on the mend! Flu is never fun 😞
You know how I like .338 caliber. I would opt for a semi-custom on a stainless Rem action in the Edge.  Does what the 300 win will do, and much more with more authority. They can be light, they can be heavy. But they reach and hit hard👍
You pick barrel, chassis, trigger and your good to go.
The Edge is amazing - gets Lapua Improved velocity and well exceeds 338-378  speed with 10 grains less powder.  A 300 grain pushed by H1000  drives tacks and has elk authority past 1100 yards and easy to build - just an expanded 300 Rum.  But its a Big Boy. - not a plinker even with a big break.   
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: b23 on January 09, 2018, 07:38:35 PM
I'm a big fan of the 338 Edge, probably one of the best 338's out there and not only do they always shoot extremely well with very little load development but they are probably the best 338 build if you are trying to stay within a certain budget, but they're generally 200 fps under the 338 Lapua Imp. velocities, unless you are comparing a 338 Edge +P from Defensive Edge to a 338 Lap. Imp. then there is only around 100 fps difference but those 338 Edge +P's are definitely not your typical 338 Edge.  And in all fairness to the 338-378, you can't go by the velocities they get with Weatherby's factory built guns with those buggy whip 26 inch barrels because those things just don't do the big Weatherby justice.  A properly built 338-378 with a decent length barrel and contour is certainly no slouch.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: yorketransport on January 09, 2018, 09:31:05 PM

No.....took a week off to be sicker than a dog!!   :bash: :bash:  Now on the mend and back to some research.  Pretty sure I am not going 100% custom at this point.  Now just need to put hands on rifles as I see them and see what feels good.  Wish they made the Savage in a stainless...I would buy the 300 win mag lr and put it on a chassis and call it good.   I have seen how they shoot and the cost is right (though this is not my primary concern).  I just really want a stainless rifle as it will be used in inclimate weather.

Why not buy a stainless Savage long action and just rebarrel it? Go pick up a pawn shop SS Savage in 30-06 for $4-500; swap out the trigger, bolt head and bolt handle; sell the factory parts (barrel, stock, bolt head); buy a prefit barrel from the maker or your choice for $450-600 for a top quality barrel.

I'd expect to put together a gun comparable to what you're looking at for about $1600 that I would expect to easily shoot under .5 MOA and likely closer to .3 MOA. I happen to like Savage actions, so custom actions don't offer me much unless I need something special. I'm focused more on function than form most of the time and I'm just not convinced that it's necessary to spend over $2500 to have an accurate 300 Win Mag.
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jmscon on January 09, 2018, 10:43:28 PM
Northland shooter supply has stainless Remington 700 actions (.532 bolt face) for $425 and stainless hand lapped, match grade, Criterion barrels (for those actions) up to 30Ē (and pick your contour) at $340 in .300 wm, another $150-200 for a nut, nut wrench, action vice, and some go/no-go gauges.

Just needs glass and a stock

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/match-grade-barrels/criterion-remington-remage/
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 10, 2018, 07:19:48 AM
Yep B23 you are right on that, I was ref stock barrel on 338-378. Mine matches my Lapua pushed hard even with 2Ē shorter barrel and without advantages of lapua brass.   
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Antlershed on January 10, 2018, 07:27:42 AM
Northland shooter supply has stainless Remington 700 actions (.532 bolt face) for $425 and stainless hand lapped, match grade, Criterion barrels (for those actions) up to 30Ē (and pick your contour) at $340 in .300 wm, another $150-200 for a nut, nut wrench, action vice, and some go/no-go gauges.

Just needs glass and a stock

http://northlandshooterssupply.com/match-grade-barrels/criterion-remington-remage/
You can get the Rem 700 stainless actions with the Ultra Mag boot face for $368 from Buds.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/2388/remington_action_700_la_ss_300_ult_mag
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 10, 2018, 04:38:18 PM
Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: bearpaw on January 10, 2018, 04:50:08 PM
Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

I can't remember exactly who told me, but I've been told the Montana Rifle Co builds excellent rifles!
I think you would be better off with a more common cartridge, pick a different big magnum, maybe a 300 ultra, it has excellent ballistics, affordable cartridges!
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: Curly on January 10, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

I have a MRC X2 in .243 Win.  Good rifle.  I like the action.  I like the Pre 64 style of action.  Probably better rifles out there though.  For your described use, I'd prefer to spend the money on a rifle with a 1/2" 100 yd group accuracy guarantee (which MRC does not have).

Others will have to answer 2 and 3.  (although, my opinion would be to stick with the win instead of nosler)
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: jrebel on January 10, 2018, 04:55:20 PM
Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

I can't remember exactly who told me, but I've been told the Montana Rifle Co builds excellent rifles!
I think you would be better off with a more common cartridge, pick a different big magnum, maybe a 300 ultra, it has excellent ballistics, affordable cartridges!

Interesting you say 300 ultra.....the two they had in stock today that I got to fondle were 30 nosler and 300 ultra.  Maybe I will have to look more into the ultra mag.   :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: bearpaw on January 10, 2018, 04:58:19 PM
Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

I have a MRC X2 in .243 Win.  Good rifle.  I like the action.  I like the Pre 64 style of action.  Probably better rifles out there though.  For your described use, I'd prefer to spend the money on a rifle with a 1/2" 100 yd group accuracy guarantee (which MRC does not have).

Others will have to answer 2 and 3.  (although, my opinion would be to stick with the win instead of nosler)

Before I bought my last Weatherby I almost bought a Fierce, they have a 1/2" guarantee and are pretty nice feeling rifles. Sportsman Warehouse carries Fierce now! If you want the very best accuracy you might want to get a gun built! If you want to carry the gun all over the mountains you will have to consider the weight of a heavy barrel verses the accuracy you want/need?

Couple more questions.....

1.  Anyone have experience or opinions on Montana rifle company's rifles?  Specifically the X2
2.  For long range shooting is a sporter barrel sufficient?  I have always thought a heavy barrel (usually fluted) was a better option....but guess I really don't know being I am new to the long(er) range shooting.
3.  What are you thoughts with a 30 Nosler.....looks ballistically very similar to the 300 win mag with a little shorter case. 

thanks

I can't remember exactly who told me, but I've been told the Montana Rifle Co builds excellent rifles!
I think you would be better off with a more common cartridge, pick a different big magnum, maybe a 300 ultra, it has excellent ballistics, affordable cartridges!

Interesting you say 300 ultra.....the two they had in stock today that I got to fondle were 30 nosler and 300 ultra.  Maybe I will have to look more into the ultra mag.   :tup:

You can buy 300 utra ammo almost anywhere now, much easier to find, and I think better ballistics!  :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Heavy Bullet Rifle Help?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 10, 2018, 05:29:18 PM
Buy freezerfull's gun and be done with it Dale. AR10 6.5 Creedmoor