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Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: billythekidrock on June 07, 2009, 09:06:32 AM


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Title: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: billythekidrock on June 07, 2009, 09:06:32 AM
Here are some images of shot placement. They were taken from the IBEF pdf file that you can find here. http://www.nbef.org/  
It has a lot of great information for both archery and rifle bear hunters.

Overhead view of shot placement angles.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/bearangles.gif)

Composite image I created from the individual ones below.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/bearshotplacementfull.jpg)

Individual images from the composite image.

Bear
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/bear28.jpg)

Muscles
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/muscles.jpg)

Skeleton
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/skeleton.jpg)

Circulatory System
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/cirulatorysystem.jpg)

Organs
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/organs.jpg)


Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: billythekidrock on June 07, 2009, 09:10:13 AM
Here is another one.

(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1443webBearAnatomyCr.jpg)
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: JBar on June 07, 2009, 09:31:56 AM
This is good info, I actually studied this NBEF stuff really good before I went on my first archery spring bear hunt.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on June 07, 2009, 11:45:47 AM
Great info!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Skinner on June 07, 2009, 12:09:40 PM
Thanks good info!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bowsandhose on June 07, 2009, 12:43:16 PM
 :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bucklucky on June 07, 2009, 12:46:57 PM
Nice
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: ratherhunt on June 07, 2009, 05:41:24 PM
Awesome Information Thanks
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: markts on June 07, 2009, 05:47:57 PM
Thanks Billy I will just need to find one shoo dat.  :chuckle:Mark
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Sideswipe on June 09, 2009, 10:39:19 AM
Thanks BTKR!  Best article on this subject I've found to date.  On 6 Jun I logged on to American Hunter.org re: "How To Shoot A Bear".  It was OK but they are in the "bust the shoulder 1st camp".  I'm not a magnum shooter (definately nothing wrong w/that) but get my jollies by close shots w/leverguns in traditional calibers.  I think my best choice is a double lunger.  Now, from these picts, I finally see why waiting until near front leg is fwd makes sense.  Just gotta graduate from cardiac rehab before 1 Aug!!!!! Last bear I got was w/a 450 Marlin which is closer to a short range magnum than a traditional caliber.  Bullet lodged against far shoulder blade & knocked him down but I had to finish him.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: coriantonk on June 11, 2009, 12:01:24 AM
Thanks for the pics and info.  It gives me something to think about,  August 1st aint that fer away :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: littletoes on June 14, 2009, 08:59:52 AM
Shoulder or Neck for me.....they just don't get up or run after that.

Great Pics guys!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: fishcrazy on June 17, 2009, 07:45:00 PM
Sideswipe,

I enjoy shooting lever guns as well. I have a Marlin 1895 Cowboy that a want to shoot a bear with so BAD!!! I hand load it and have a really hot load ready. I like to think I will get one this year. It must be a real rush getting one with a lever gun with open sights!!! I think I'm going to do some scouting around Forks this year. Shot my first bear in the Cascades with a scoped .308 but wanna find a better population away from so many people and kill one cowboy style!!


Kris
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: GWA Hunter on June 17, 2009, 11:02:59 PM
Good info. Thanks Billy :)
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Airnip on June 18, 2009, 08:07:39 PM
Tried for quite a while to copy the picture in this old post from another forum. It is a target picture of a bear's heart and lungs from facing front. Maybe someone else could have better results getting this shot placement guide here?
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,30878.0.html (http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,30878.0.html)
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: billythekidrock on June 18, 2009, 08:12:58 PM
Tried for quite a while to copy the picture in this old post from another forum. It is a target picture of a bear's heart and lungs from facing front. Maybe someone else could have better results getting this shot placement guide here?
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,30878.0.html (http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,30878.0.html)

This one?

(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/JPErdmann/Montana/102_0017.jpg)
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Airnip on June 18, 2009, 08:19:01 PM
That would be it. Seems much better than the "Bear Attack" book's crecent shaped necklace picture. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Huntbear on June 18, 2009, 08:20:43 PM
From that pictures angle, you are already about to be lunch, because you are on your back on the ground, and the bear is giving thanks for food!!!!   :chuckle:

Billy, awesome write up.  Thanks, it will come in handy as soon as I can find a bear after Aug. 1.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bearpaw on July 02, 2009, 04:51:48 PM
I have to pieces of advice on shooting bear....

1. Try to break a shoulder and get the lungs with your first shot.
2. If the bear starts to get back up shoot him again until he stays down.

Every time I violate those rules it seems I regret it. This spring a guy shot a bear and it went down, it was getting up and moving around some, he was going to shoot again and like an idiot I said "I think he's gonna die." The guy hesitated and the bear got up and made it out of sight in a split second. I found blood in a half dozen places as far as a couple hundred yards away and then as usual it dried up. I still regret that remark. We shot another bear two days later but I do not like anything to get away wounded. Through the years this has happened a few times, if we would have just put another round in them it would have been for the best.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: SHANE(WA) on July 02, 2009, 05:03:06 PM
Always shoot till down and not moving. Better take both lungs or kiss the bear goodbye. Bear can survive on a collapsed lung. I shot a bear years ago that just dropped rolled 10 yards and came to rest againt a tree, motionless for 5 min kept watching nothing. Bear appeared to be dead, started to pack up and make my way over and bear is up going down the hill, dragging a shoulder. Never saw the bear again
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Redstar on July 08, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
Good info, thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bowhiker on July 17, 2009, 09:22:12 PM
Good information there. I'm still looking to shoot my first one.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: zackmioli on July 22, 2009, 09:44:46 PM
great info thanks!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bearhunter59 on July 25, 2009, 10:28:12 AM
both bears I've shot have been head shots...right in the side of the head...nice big whole out the other side....dropped and never moved again....about an inch or two below the ear did it both times....they don't tend to go far whenyou blow their brains out...last one was a 225yrd shot...one shot...one kill. :chuckle: :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: westsideoutdoorsman on August 13, 2009, 02:51:05 PM
In 98' I was 16 and shot my 2nd bear.  Wasn't the greatest shot placement (back shot) as he was about 220+ yards off.  Head over heels he came down that hill towards us into the deep cover, heard some heavy wheezing and brush crashing as we figured he was on his way out.  I took my friends advice to go up the hill and follow the blood trail down instead of going to where we heard him ... 2 days later after 3 of us had been up there with machettes making trails and trying to recover him we found him, torn apart with only the hide left.  To this day he is the only animal I've put down that I wasn't able to recover and harvest. YUK
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: boneaddict on August 13, 2009, 02:55:17 PM
I honestly think bear are the toughest critters to put down.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: rasbo on August 13, 2009, 03:10:15 PM
they get two no matter what,third one is for me
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: westsideoutdoorsman on August 13, 2009, 03:20:14 PM
they get two no matter what,third one is for me


Yea that's a good rule to follow.  I'm not a big fan of waiting for them to die, in my opinion their departure should be quick and as painless as possible. I like to follow the first up quickly with a second, and that third for you rasbo, if they're still breathing.  :P
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 03, 2009, 09:12:06 AM
Thanks for posting this Billy!  Good info
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Gutpile on September 06, 2009, 06:36:11 PM
Great thread but I went a different way in 09.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: elkh8tr on February 01, 2010, 10:29:38 AM
Wow! I have yet to try the headshot with my bow.  :bash: The heart/lungs seem to do pretty good for me.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Raul Duke on February 23, 2010, 06:14:54 PM
good info,
head shot looks cool.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Decker on March 27, 2010, 12:22:46 AM
If that head shot didn't demolish the skull too bad it would make a pretty cool skull mount, especially if there was a tale of a charge involved.

Personally speaking I agree with Bearpaw, take out their running gear and try to get a lung. Best rifle shot I've seen was at 175 when my friend shot it in the neck, aiming for the spine. He's a good shot; I've never seen a bear collapse and never move besides that shot.

On an archery note, the one I shanked in an apple tree fell at the base dead. I still think arrows are the way to go, and bears are an epic hunt, should you decide to use their limited eyesight against them. Just hunt the wind and you'll be good.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Caretaker on April 05, 2010, 10:45:44 PM
Really good info, thank you.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: skier2480 on August 21, 2010, 02:06:32 PM
Great info guys. Thanks!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: BlackRidge on August 24, 2010, 10:00:02 AM
 :tup: Awesome info, Thanks!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bearpaw on September 01, 2010, 06:17:52 PM
gutpile, good shot, no argueing that shot was a death sentence.... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: markts on September 01, 2010, 07:42:20 PM
I honestly think bear are the toughest critters to put down.
I cant believe you didnt take a beating for this comment-I feel the same way and have scars on my back from the lashings I have taken from people saying bears are as easy to put down as a chipmonk :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: BlackRidge on September 20, 2010, 11:09:20 AM
Another pic

(http://www.huntwashingtonstate.com/HWS/pictures/bearvitals.jpg)
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: inkfish86 on November 21, 2010, 12:42:24 PM
good info thanks for sharing, now i can see "why" you have to let them get the front foot forward.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Wazukie on November 21, 2010, 12:47:56 PM
my 2010 bear was one shot to the heat and lungs, she didnt go more than 10 yrds and took a dirt nap.  I hunt with a single shot rifle, I have to make the first one count cause I might not get a second one.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: deleted BGS on December 19, 2010, 12:26:50 AM
Great pics. Got 2 bears this year. One was shot broadside facing left, one shot 250 yds heart lungs, rolled it. next my dads, was facing away a@@ end toward him, shot between spine and front shoulder, heart, rolled it, 250 yards. Both 1 shot kills from a pretty decent range. Both bears 200+, i dont know how some people shoot 3,4,5 shots :dunno: Bad shot placement I guess
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: rhc2000 on January 01, 2011, 01:20:45 PM
good information to know
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 10, 2011, 02:51:29 PM
With the spring bear hunt just around the corner, I thought this might be helpful to a few people.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 18, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
HAHAHA no doubt Gutpile that was a good come back !!!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Gutpile on April 18, 2011, 05:07:40 PM
If that head shot didn't demolish the skull too bad it would make a pretty cool skull mount, especially if there was a tale of a charge involved.

I have the skull. Perfect hole through and through. No damage to the skull other than that. Truth being told the bear was facing me and was much closer than I thought. I was shooting a 350 Rem Mag wjich starts to fall off at 250 so I put the crosshairs between the eyes thinking it would hit it in the chest. Still a cool pic though when I want to brag about how great a shot I am.  :chuckle:  Anyways the bear was at 180ish so the bullet didn't drop at all hence the head shot.  :tung:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: shedkid on August 06, 2012, 11:47:00 AM
shoot them in the sholders, thats where the vitals are! 
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Rufous on April 11, 2013, 08:52:34 PM
The last post stated- "shoot them in the shoulders, that is where the vitals are". I would like to comment on that and add some of my observations. To just say shoot them in the shoulders is not good advice because it really depends on how the animal's body is positioned. I have told my brother in the past on various animals to try to bust shoulder before and he did so but due to the way the animal was facing/positioned he missed the vitals (for example the animal was broadside but its front legs were positioned forward). One must consider where the center of the vitals are located and aim to put the bullet through that center. Clearly a quality bullet placed through the vitals will kill whatever animal but I (like many others) like to also immobilize the animal so that it cannot move into heavy cover. So what I try to accomplish is to break at least one front leg while also destroying the vitals. My biggest bear was an excellent example and has come to be my favored shot, especially on bear. It was quartering away and I aimed to center the vitals and break the offside front leg. The bear dropped at the shot. I also advocate follow up shots, especially on bear. I have learned the hard way and hope that you will not make the same mistake. Bears in particular can be really hard to find so keep shooting!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: h20hunter on July 29, 2013, 02:05:00 PM
Quick bump.......season is right around the corner!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: JJB11B on August 17, 2013, 12:10:58 AM
I plan on stickin one this year. Passed on a couple last year both with a gun and a bow. I've seen so many stinkin bears this year whilst scouting for deer and elk. Washington seriously needs to start selling second bear tags. Its getting ridiculous
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: ellensburgpo on August 17, 2013, 12:17:25 AM
They do sell second bear tags. Pick one up.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Elliott on August 19, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
I plan on stickin one this year. Passed on a couple last year both with a gun and a bow. I've seen so many stinkin bears this year whilst scouting for deer and elk. Washington seriously needs to start selling second bear tags. Its getting ridiculous
They do sell second bear tags. Pick one up.

Only thing is only one can be from eastern washington.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: ghostshell on August 24, 2013, 07:16:53 AM
washington does sell two bear tags....... you get two west side bears or one east one west.  :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: JJB11B on October 03, 2013, 08:53:30 PM
I plan on stickin one this year. Passed on a couple last year both with a gun and a bow. I've seen so many stinkin bears this year whilst scouting for deer and elk. Washington seriously needs to start selling second bear tags. Its getting ridiculous
They do sell second bear tags. Pick one up.

Only thing is only one can be from eastern washington.
I only hunt eastern washington
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Tracker20xray on January 29, 2014, 10:44:51 AM
.243 168 yds, take the lights out(which are more foward than you know)30 to 100 yds.there done,rifle or bow.   there soft skin and small boned,BUT heart and lungs are not in the middle of bear.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: D-Rock425 on January 29, 2014, 11:24:13 AM
.243 168 yds, take the lights out(which are more foward than you know)30 to 100 yds.there done,rifle or bow.   there soft skin and small boned,BUT heart and lungs are not in the middle of bear.
really 100 yard bow shot at a bear? 
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Tracker20xray on January 30, 2014, 10:36:27 AM
if you would have checked with your dad,he would have told you that's how far they go with no lungs.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: D-Rock425 on January 30, 2014, 11:08:33 AM
.243 168 yds, take the lights out(which are more foward than you know)30 to 100 yds.there done,rifle or bow.   there soft skin and small boned,BUT heart and lungs are not in the middle of bear.
I guess I miss understood I thought you meant taking 100 yard shots with a bow :sry:
if you would have checked with your dad,he would have told you that's how far they go with no lungs.
my old man has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: whitey on January 30, 2014, 12:03:46 PM
Head shot.. :yike:
 :bdid:
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: D-Rock425 on January 30, 2014, 12:20:21 PM
I've done it it works.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Tracker20xray on January 30, 2014, 01:09:17 PM
Not your sorry,nor mine for that matter.60 years ago my teacher wrote on my report card Dose not play well with others,2-years in the nam probable didn't help eather,but it is what it is,and i don't make my self clear lots of the time. :dunno:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bmonti76 on July 30, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Thanks Billy I will just need to find one shoo dat.  :chuckle:Mark

Yeah great info, now can you put me on one!!!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Maverick on July 30, 2014, 02:38:49 PM
What caliber do you guys recommend and how far are you willing to shoot at a bear with that caliber?
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: h20hunter on July 30, 2014, 02:48:27 PM
I'd say there is no answer for you. I'd say how far can you shoot your legal caliber and be confident of hitting your target. If you shoot a cannon but can't hit anything what good is the caliber and range?

Quick edit: I've shot my only two bears under 30 yards with a .270, one was a 130gr, the other a 150gr. I put the bullet where it needed to go. First bear flopped on its back, second took 3 steps.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: D-Rock425 on July 30, 2014, 02:53:32 PM
I shoot a little 7mm08 because I'm a girl.  That being said i'd shoot 200 yards on a broadside bear with no hesitation.  I'm always looking for a 2nd follow up shot no matter how good I think I've hit the bear.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Maverick on July 30, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
My go to rifle is usually a Remington .270 150 grain. Have yet to shoot at a bear but reading stories on a lot running off I'm questioning if I should use something bigger.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: h20hunter on July 30, 2014, 03:03:19 PM
If you shoot it regulary I'd say bully to what others say. Put a 150gr where it needs to go, don't rush the shot, like D-Rock said, be prepared for a follow up, and get to it. My avatar bear fell to a to slow moving 150gr Barnes and died as fast as you could ask. Crushed him. Took out liver, lung, lung, and broke the far shoulder.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: ghostshell on February 07, 2015, 08:32:31 AM
double lungs...... archery.  :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: 7mmstalker on February 07, 2015, 09:39:27 AM
The best advice, as always, is shoot the rifle that you shoot the best.  A well placed shot with a good bullet always works well. If I were using 30 cal./180grain or heavier, I would take the shoulder shot, smaller bullets definitely not, wait for the chest cavity-heart / lung to be exposed.
A bigger bore rifle doesn't kill any deader than the trusty 30-06, 270,or any number of other calibers common for deer hunting. I met one long time Alaskan who hunted everything, Moose included, with a 25-06.
Keep shooting  'till the bear doesn't move any more.  An extra hole or two in the hide means nothing compared to the bitterness and disappointment of losing a wounded animal.
I have seen black bear absorb a 7mmMag slug in the spine and immediately bounce up and try to run on the good legs. Same thing from a 338 WinMag shot to the spine.  Both of those were put down with a second shot.
Seems that a lot of hunters equate toughness with dangerous.  Many will not agree, but the black bear is not a particularly viscous animal, wounded, that's a little different. Most animals just want to escape danger. Any wounded animal will be aggressive and potentially dangerous. The brown and polar bears are the guys who will consistently choose to confront and fight.
If you are not hunting alone, it can work well to designate one person must bring the "fight stopper" rifle. That is similar to how the guides deal with the possibility of aggressive animals.  I really like having a heavy caliber, or 12ga with premium slugs to bring along if blood trailing, deer or larger. The wounded ones often head into thick cover, so a short range heavy impact round /weapon is best.
Situation awareness, make the first shot count, and have a quick, effective plan B, and plan C.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jasnt on February 07, 2015, 10:15:36 AM
Personally I'm not a shoulder buster. I like vital shots and prefer quartering away shots, but I shoot a 243 for just about everything! Last years bear was a big sow(>300lbs) shot from 150 yards. Bullet passed threw both lungs, sent shrapnel threw the heart and exited slicing threw the jugular. She went 40 yards.  Could have run fallowing the blood trail!  Shoot what you have and can shoot well!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: 7mmstalker on February 07, 2015, 12:41:03 PM
Aim small, miss small!  Shooting like that you could make clean kills with almost any (legal) weapon.  Archery too.   
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dune on May 02, 2015, 06:47:02 AM
I like the 300 win mag it puts any thing down quick
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 02, 2015, 07:17:29 AM
I like the 300 win mag it puts any thing down quick
300 win mag with bad shot placement results in lost bear.  Bears seem to be the toughest things ive ever killed.  Seen bears get shot with a 375 h&h and still gova good distance.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jordanramos_79 on May 02, 2015, 08:34:04 AM
Tagging. This has some great info.  :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: WAPatriot on June 15, 2015, 06:21:56 AM
http://www.bear-hunting.com/2014/5/middle-of-the-middle-redefining-shot-placement

Anyone ever try and shoot them far back
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on May 17, 2016, 11:37:10 AM
http://www.bear-hunting.com/2014/5/middle-of-the-middle-redefining-shot-placement

Anyone ever try and shoot them far back
I did with a .308 a few weeks ago, 98 yards broadside.  Another member found the rotted carcass 4 days later.  She went a long way. 
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: h20hunter on March 11, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
Ttt.

C'mon draw. Some shot placement refresher.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: tgomez on September 06, 2017, 02:37:10 PM
I have shot all 3 of my bear with a 30-06. I shoot for double lung shots on ALL ANIMALS. Two of my bear were small boars 130 lbs and 108 lbs, and they didn't move at all after I shot them. My 326 lb sow ran about 75 yards and the only reason I didn't shoot it again is because I had no second opportunity. I agree with many others who are EXPERIENCED bear hunters, aim for the vitals(heart and lungs) and if they are still moving shoot again.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 15, 2018, 01:59:23 AM
Here is another one.

(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1443webBearAnatomyCr.jpg)

Cool Pic!  :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Brian_Whitman on April 02, 2018, 12:20:14 PM
This is great stuff, thank you!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jennabug on September 11, 2018, 07:04:34 AM
Looks like the majority of the pictures of shot placement are no longer available and some of the links have been broken.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 11, 2018, 07:09:37 AM
Tight to the shoulder, broadside or quartering away for archery.  Same or right on the shoulder for rifle with quality bullets.

They're not exceptionally tough IMO, they just don't bleed on the ground as much
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jennabug on September 11, 2018, 07:12:35 AM
That's what I've gathered so far. :)  :brew:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: bearpaw on September 11, 2018, 07:56:21 AM
In my opinion bear are one of the toughest to kill animals in the lower 48. Unless you hit vitals, the spine, or break shoulders, you probably won't find a bear and he has a pretty good chance of healing, even shot up broken legs heal, we've taken numerous bear that have had significant old wounds that had healed.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: eyesinfront on June 07, 2019, 10:41:17 PM
Shot a big boar this spring with my 270. Quartering towards me at 89yds. Figured the combo of hot hand loads and Barnes bullet would power through that front shoulder...wrong! Turned into a gong show and ended up putting 3 more into him. I'll wait for broadside shots from now. Recovered the bullet from his shoulder and it looked just like it came out of a Barnes add only it never made it past the shoulder into the chest cavity.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on June 30, 2019, 11:38:00 AM
The original photos are not available but the middle of the middle is a little far back imo but a much better choice then tucking it in close to the shoulder as you can completely miss the vitals. tight to the shoulder is not correct. Bear vitals are further back then deer and elk. Take a look at a middle of the middle pictures and go about 3” further forward. Bears are the easiest animals to kill if you hit double lungs . There ribs are soft and flexible and easily penetrated with archery equipment as well. More people wound bears hitting them to far forward then to far back. Why you would want to shoot an animal in the shoulder and ruin all that meat if you don’t need to is beyond me.

Of course with a high power rifle you have a lot more wiggle room as bears aren’t very big.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: npaull on September 21, 2019, 09:15:58 PM
Sorry dilleytech but that’s flat wrong. There simply ISNT anything “forward” of the heart and great vessels in the thorax of an animal like that. There’s no extra space inside an organism. Every organ is in immediate and direct apposition with its neighboring organ. No matter how far forward your shot is, if it’s behind the bones of the front leg on a broadside bear, you are in the chest. In fact, farther forward shots hit bigger vessels before they branch and are MORE quickly lethal.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on July 08, 2020, 08:44:12 AM
Sorry dilleytech but that’s flat wrong. There simply ISNT anything “forward” of the heart and great vessels in the thorax of an animal like that. There’s no extra space inside an organism. Every organ is in immediate and direct apposition with its neighboring organ. No matter how far forward your shot is, if it’s behind the bones of the front leg on a broadside bear, you are in the chest. In fact, farther forward shots hit bigger vessels before they branch and are MORE quickly lethal.

My experience with shot placement and examining the organs After has show this pic to be spot on. Disagree all you would like.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on July 08, 2020, 08:46:16 AM
This Bear was shot in the top of the heart and ing the lungs.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jellymon on July 08, 2020, 08:58:53 AM
Sorry dilleytech but that’s flat wrong. There simply ISNT anything “forward” of the heart and great vessels in the thorax of an animal like that. There’s no extra space inside an organism. Every organ is in immediate and direct apposition with its neighboring organ. No matter how far forward your shot is, if it’s behind the bones of the front leg on a broadside bear, you are in the chest. In fact, farther forward shots hit bigger vessels before they branch and are MORE quickly lethal.

My experience with shot placement and examining the organs After has show this pic to be spot on. Disagree all you would like.

The born and raised guys 10 ringed a bear right in the black spot above the heart and in front of the lungs on that picture with a 308. They tracked blood for a while and never found it.
I hit a bear in the same spot with my bow a few years ago from 20yds, Three of us saw the shot hit perfectly behind the shoulder with a complete passthrough. After waiting about 25 minutes we followed what looked like gallons of blood. After a few hundered yards the blood trail petered out and we started a grid search. Ended up not finding it.

I’m not 100% sure if bear vitals are farther back, but the two situations above have made me wonder........
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on July 08, 2020, 09:10:00 AM
Sorry dilleytech but that’s flat wrong. There simply ISNT anything “forward” of the heart and great vessels in the thorax of an animal like that. There’s no extra space inside an organism. Every organ is in immediate and direct apposition with its neighboring organ. No matter how far forward your shot is, if it’s behind the bones of the front leg on a broadside bear, you are in the chest. In fact, farther forward shots hit bigger vessels before they branch and are MORE quickly lethal.

My experience with shot placement and examining the organs After has show this pic to be spot on. Disagree all you would like.

The born and raised guys 10 ringed a bear right in the black spot above the heart and in front of the lungs on that picture with a 308. They tracked blood for a while and never found it.
I hit a bear in the same spot with my bow a few years ago from 20yds, Three of us saw the shot hit perfectly behind the shoulder with a complete passthrough. After waiting about 25 minutes we followed what looked like gallons of blood. After a few hundered yards the blood trail petered out and we started a grid search. Ended up not finding it.

I’m not 100% sure if bear vitals are farther back, but the two situations above have made me wonder........

Exactly. The only bear I have lost I hit right right behind the shoulder and just a tad above the middle. Just like you describe. If your going to aim forward it need to be high shoulder with a gun that can handle it. Heck I arrowed a bear a little behind the middle of the middle and hit nothing but liver and that bear went 60 yards.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on September 21, 2020, 01:50:19 PM
Interesting thread to read and really good info for anyone from rookies to experienced bear hunters to learn from. The 2 bears I killed this year were quite different. The first one a yearling boar I had to shoot twice. First shot was about 80 yards was broadside busted the shoulder and lunged him but had to put another in his neck to finish him off. The second one a much bigger sow she was standing fairly straight on to me at 159 yds and I put it thru her chest clipping the boiler room she nosed dived rolled 20 yds and that was it no need for a follow up. Both bears killed with a 30.06 180 grain. I think shot placement is obviously key but no doubt bears are some tough animals that can withstand a lot.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 14, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dyhardhuntr on August 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 14, 2021, 11:23:29 AM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2021, 11:28:40 AM
It is interesting to see the differences between Deer and elk vitals, and those of a black bear. Whereas the heart of the ungulates is directly above the foreleg, that of the bear is just behind, about the same distance from the bottom of the torso. Remember that with the bear, hair hangs down about 4-6 inches below the bottom of the torso. The lungs toward the front on the black bear and elk start at roughly the same place. But the position of the elk's is much more vertical, as the bears seems more horizontal. As many have pointed out, the more effective bear shot is farther back, about 1/4 to 1/3of the torso from the chest.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jrebel on August 14, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.

Glad you recovered the bear.  To me that is to far back...by at least 6 inches.  Depending on how it was standing, if pullet impacted on inspiration or expiration, amount of shock damage, etc, etc, etc,.....can turn a shot too far back into a shot that destroys lung tissue or is a complete gut shot.  Out of curiosity, was any of the intestines / stomach damaged with that shot? 

The reason I don't like that placement, assuming you got the lower lobes of the lungs.....is there is absolutely no margin of error if the shot was a little bit to the right (as the picture sits).  I have to believe that a couple inches to the right is 100% a gut shot. 

The half and half rule is a bad rule for the above mentioned reason.  If your are even a little far back from the half way point....you gut shot them.  Pick the front third half way up the body and give yourself a good margin of error.  I also like the shoulder shot if you have a good strong bullet.  I will not take a shoulder shot with non bonded bullets.....as I have pictures of one that is still walking around after gernading a 212 grain ELD-X on the onside shoulder. 

Again...happy you recovered the bear!!  Another fawn killer down.   :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2021, 01:12:52 PM
WTG recovering your kill.  :tup:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: duckmen1 on August 14, 2021, 04:45:25 PM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.

Glad you recovered the bear.  To me that is to far back...by at least 6 inches.  Depending on how it was standing, if pullet impacted on inspiration or expiration, amount of shock damage, etc, etc, etc,.....can turn a shot too far back into a shot that destroys lung tissue or is a complete gut shot.  Out of curiosity, was any of the intestines / stomach damaged with that shot? 

The reason I don't like that placement, assuming you got the lower lobes of the lungs.....is there is absolutely no margin of error if the shot was a little bit to the right (as the picture sits).  I have to believe that a couple inches to the right is 100% a gut shot. 

The half and half rule is a bad rule for the above mentioned reason.  If your are even a little far back from the half way point....you gut shot them.  Pick the front third half way up the body and give yourself a good margin of error.  I also like the shoulder shot if you have a good strong bullet.  I will not take a shoulder shot with non bonded bullets.....as I have pictures of one that is still walking around after gernading a 212 grain ELD-X on the onside shoulder. 

Again...happy you recovered the bear!!  Another fawn killer down.   :tup:

I agree with everything you said. I just was wondering more info about the ELDx scenario. Could you touch on more about the load you were using and speed of the bullet and such. I know someone that has always said those bullets are no good. But I have watched so many pass through shots on deer including both shoulders hit. Complete pass throughs. One elk shot in the chest and dropped it with a ton of penetration. As well as a recent bear shot in the shoulder which dropped and rolled and as it rolled an insurance shot was taken just behind the shoulder. Both those shots were complete pass throughs too. The bear was with a 6.5 creedmore and others were a mix of 6.5 creedmore and 28 nosler. Just asking to gain more knowledge of these bullets from others experience as well as our own. At this time my only thought is maybe to high of speeds on magnum loads may cause issues but not sure. Thanks for any info
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jrebel on August 14, 2021, 05:42:21 PM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.

Glad you recovered the bear.  To me that is to far back...by at least 6 inches.  Depending on how it was standing, if pullet impacted on inspiration or expiration, amount of shock damage, etc, etc, etc,.....can turn a shot too far back into a shot that destroys lung tissue or is a complete gut shot.  Out of curiosity, was any of the intestines / stomach damaged with that shot? 

The reason I don't like that placement, assuming you got the lower lobes of the lungs.....is there is absolutely no margin of error if the shot was a little bit to the right (as the picture sits).  I have to believe that a couple inches to the right is 100% a gut shot. 

The half and half rule is a bad rule for the above mentioned reason.  If your are even a little far back from the half way point....you gut shot them.  Pick the front third half way up the body and give yourself a good margin of error.  I also like the shoulder shot if you have a good strong bullet.  I will not take a shoulder shot with non bonded bullets.....as I have pictures of one that is still walking around after gernading a 212 grain ELD-X on the onside shoulder. 

Again...happy you recovered the bear!!  Another fawn killer down.   :tup:

I agree with everything you said. I just was wondering more info about the ELDx scenario. Could you touch on more about the load you were using and speed of the bullet and such. I know someone that has always said those bullets are no good. But I have watched so many pass through shots on deer including both shoulders hit. Complete pass throughs. One elk shot in the chest and dropped it with a ton of penetration. As well as a recent bear shot in the shoulder which dropped and rolled and as it rolled an insurance shot was taken just behind the shoulder. Both those shots were complete pass throughs too. The bear was with a 6.5 creedmore and others were a mix of 6.5 creedmore and 28 nosler. Just asking to gain more knowledge of these bullets from others experience as well as our own. At this time my only thought is maybe to high of speeds on magnum loads may cause issues but not sure. Thanks for any info

300 win mag 26" barrel handloaded rounds.  H1000 behind a 212 grain ELD-X 2840 fps muzzle velocity.  Killed a bear and two moose with the rifle using this set up. 

First moose was a 40 yard shot so pretty high velocities.....shot number one to the head, shot number two and three behind the shoulder broadside.  The head shot definitely was effective and was a kill shot.  The moose kept standing so I hit him two more times behind the shoulder.  Both #2 and #3 shots the bullets exploded in the chest cavity, neither exited.  Never found any big pieces of the bullet....but in all honesty didn't look that hard. 

Second moose was 300 yards broadside.  Shot number one was behind the shoulder and it was a complete pass through with total jacket separation.  Diameter of the bullet entrance and exit with the jacket being recovered in the chest.  Shot number two was to the neck and the bullet separated and did not exit. 

Bear # 1.....Three shots to kill it.  First shot was at 200 yards steep uphill.  Broke onside front leg and destroyed offside shoulder with complete pass through.  Bear rolls down the hill and I find him in the ditch still alive.  Second shot through the back and out of the chest at 50 yards....complete pass through with no expansion or internal damage.  Third shot to the back of the head.  First shot was definitely a kill shot and I would say the bullet performed very well.  Second shot was a complete failure and the third / head shot was clearly effective. 

The bullets are very unpredictable in their performance in my humble opinion.  If I was going to continue to use them, I would never shoot the shoulder.....and always shoot the pocket or behind the shoulder.  They shoot and group very well.  They are very easy to load for.  I won't shoot them any more and will go back to my tried and true Nosler Accubond and Partitions.  I have 500 of the 212 ELD-X and they will be loaded in my 300 blackout for subsonic rounds to bang steel with. 

Last spring and the complete bullet failure.  500 yards broadside, level shot across canyon with no wind.  Aiming for high shoulder to put the bear on the ground so I didn't have to look for it in the brush at the bottom of a steep ravine.  Shoot and watch impact on high shoulder.  The bear acts hit, rolls and then walks side hill across the canyon.  Never got a second shot due to the fact it was moving.  An hour later I make it to the point of impact and find a softball tuft of hair.  I find blood immediately....though not a lot and start tracking.  The blood is easy to track for approx 50 yards and then gets real sparse.  Needless to say I never find the bear.  I go back for three weeks looking for birds and predators hoping to find the bear.....nothing.  Fast forward to this spring....cameras all over the same ridge.  Low and behold....I have pics of the same bear very much alive.  It is missing a patch of hair on the onside high shoulder approx 3" in diameter.  An accubond or Partition would have destroyed that bear.....the ELD-X blew up on impact. 

I hope to track the same bear down this fall.....fingers crossed.  It is a beautiful red color bear that I guess to be 250-300 lbs.   
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: duckmen1 on August 14, 2021, 06:15:35 PM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.

Glad you recovered the bear.  To me that is to far back...by at least 6 inches.  Depending on how it was standing, if pullet impacted on inspiration or expiration, amount of shock damage, etc, etc, etc,.....can turn a shot too far back into a shot that destroys lung tissue or is a complete gut shot.  Out of curiosity, was any of the intestines / stomach damaged with that shot? 

The reason I don't like that placement, assuming you got the lower lobes of the lungs.....is there is absolutely no margin of error if the shot was a little bit to the right (as the picture sits).  I have to believe that a couple inches to the right is 100% a gut shot. 

The half and half rule is a bad rule for the above mentioned reason.  If your are even a little far back from the half way point....you gut shot them.  Pick the front third half way up the body and give yourself a good margin of error.  I also like the shoulder shot if you have a good strong bullet.  I will not take a shoulder shot with non bonded bullets.....as I have pictures of one that is still walking around after gernading a 212 grain ELD-X on the onside shoulder. 

Again...happy you recovered the bear!!  Another fawn killer down.   :tup:

I agree with everything you said. I just was wondering more info about the ELDx scenario. Could you touch on more about the load you were using and speed of the bullet and such. I know someone that has always said those bullets are no good. But I have watched so many pass through shots on deer including both shoulders hit. Complete pass throughs. One elk shot in the chest and dropped it with a ton of penetration. As well as a recent bear shot in the shoulder which dropped and rolled and as it rolled an insurance shot was taken just behind the shoulder. Both those shots were complete pass throughs too. The bear was with a 6.5 creedmore and others were a mix of 6.5 creedmore and 28 nosler. Just asking to gain more knowledge of these bullets from others experience as well as our own. At this time my only thought is maybe to high of speeds on magnum loads may cause issues but not sure. Thanks for any info

300 win mag 26" barrel handloaded rounds.  H1000 behind a 212 grain ELD-X 2840 fps muzzle velocity.  Killed a bear and two moose with the rifle using this set up. 

First moose was a 40 yard shot so pretty high velocities.....shot number one to the head, shot number two and three behind the shoulder broadside.  The head shot definitely was effective and was a kill shot.  The moose kept standing so I hit him two more times behind the shoulder.  Both #2 and #3 shots the bullets exploded in the chest cavity, neither exited.  Never found any big pieces of the bullet....but in all honesty didn't look that hard. 

Second moose was 300 yards broadside.  Shot number one was behind the shoulder and it was a complete pass through with total jacket separation.  Diameter of the bullet entrance and exit with the jacket being recovered in the chest.  Shot number two was to the neck and the bullet separated and did not exit. 

Bear # 1.....Three shots to kill it.  First shot was at 200 yards steep uphill.  Broke onside front leg and destroyed offside shoulder with complete pass through.  Bear rolls down the hill and I find him in the ditch still alive.  Second shot through the back and out of the chest at 50 yards....complete pass through with no expansion or internal damage.  Third shot to the back of the head.  First shot was definitely a kill shot and I would say the bullet performed very well.  Second shot was a complete failure and the third / head shot was clearly effective. 

The bullets are very unpredictable in their performance in my humble opinion.  If I was going to continue to use them, I would never shoot the shoulder.....and always shoot the pocket or behind the shoulder.  They shoot and group very well.  They are very easy to load for.  I won't shoot them any more and will go back to my tried and true Nosler Accubond and Partitions.  I have 500 of the 212 ELD-X and they will be loaded in my 300 blackout for subsonic rounds to bang steel with. 

Last spring and the complete bullet failure.  500 yards broadside, level shot across canyon with no wind.  Aiming for high shoulder to put the bear on the ground so I didn't have to look for it in the brush at the bottom of a steep ravine.  Shoot and watch impact on high shoulder.  The bear acts hit, rolls and then walks side hill across the canyon.  Never got a second shot due to the fact it was moving.  An hour later I make it to the point of impact and find a softball tuft of hair.  I find blood immediately....though not a lot and start tracking.  The blood is easy to track for approx 50 yards and then gets real sparse.  Needless to say I never find the bear.  I go back for three weeks looking for birds and predators hoping to find the bear.....nothing.  Fast forward to this spring....cameras all over the same ridge.  Low and behold....I have pics of the same bear very much alive.  It is missing a patch of hair on the onside high shoulder approx 3" in diameter.  An accubond or Partition would have destroyed that bear.....the ELD-X blew up on impact. 

I hope to track the same bear down this fall.....fingers crossed.  It is a beautiful red color bear that I guess to be 250-300 lbs.

Hey thank you for taking the time to respond about your experiences. Very much appreciated. A lot of good info in your post. And I will say I agree with you about partitions. I love those bullets. One of my favorites. Accubonds are great too.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Okanagan on August 14, 2021, 06:52:25 PM
Excellent info in this thread.  Good that it is permanently handy to reference.

That said, my personal preference is to break some running gear to immobilize or slow a bear plus destroy enough vitals to kill it soon with the same first shot.  Doesn’t always happen but is the goal.

 So I aim to have a deep penetrating bullet pass through vitals and shoulder bone/spine or reverse of that sequence.  Angles and anatomy position determine where the bullet enters the body. Slow or stop him and you get a second shot if needed.

I’ve killed about a dozen bears and in various ways been in on 45 or 50, including archery, rifles from .22 to .375 and one with a tire iron (fun cowboy roping story but not pertinent here except that it killed the bear).  IME black bears have usually been relatively easy to kill on the tenacity-of-life scale, with a few strong exceptions.

A double lung will kill for sure, maybe not super quick, depending mainly on the frangibility of the bullet. Bear fat is bad to plug holes and stop leaks, preventing a blood trail. OTOH the biggest bear I’ve been in on was double lunged behind the shoulder broadside with 180 grain Swift A-frame in .30-06 and went 10 yards. It worked.

Re black bear reaction to being shot:  many of them will drop at the touch of a bullet, whether it did vital damage or not.  One was merely grazed and dropped.  Cycle in another round ASAP and be ready to shoot again.  If the bear gets up, shoot again, no matter how confident you are in the first shot.  Weird things happen sometimes to well-aimed bullets.  I have stories of bears getting up and leaving.

Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on August 15, 2021, 06:52:39 PM
Again excellent info here! I love sliding a arrow in them. Very potent. :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Crunchy on August 15, 2021, 07:26:44 PM
Right behind the shoulder usually works. This bear didn’t go 40 yards after the shot.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 18, 2021, 05:58:14 PM
To add to the shot placement thread. My most recent bear I shot further back and higher then I was aiming. Grass bullet deflection or pulled it. Idk but regardless this was still a double lung hit.

Glad you recovered the bear.  To me that is to far back...by at least 6 inches.  Depending on how it was standing, if pullet impacted on inspiration or expiration, amount of shock damage, etc, etc, etc,.....can turn a shot too far back into a shot that destroys lung tissue or is a complete gut shot.  Out of curiosity, was any of the intestines / stomach damaged with that shot? 

The reason I don't like that placement, assuming you got the lower lobes of the lungs.....is there is absolutely no margin of error if the shot was a little bit to the right (as the picture sits).  I have to believe that a couple inches to the right is 100% a gut shot. 

The half and half rule is a bad rule for the above mentioned reason.  If your are even a little far back from the half way point....you gut shot them.  Pick the front third half way up the body and give yourself a good margin of error.  I also like the shoulder shot if you have a good strong bullet.  I will not take a shoulder shot with non bonded bullets.....as I have pictures of one that is still walking around after gernading a 212 grain ELD-X on the onside shoulder. 

Again...happy you recovered the bear!!  Another fawn killer down.   :tup:

Like I said it wasn’t where I was aiming but yes this was double lung. No the guts were not hit this is all in front of the diaphragm about 4 ribs from the last rib. A couple inches further back would have been liver. The picture posted above would put the lungs in the neck. That’s a very bad diagram of bear vitals. This bear went about 60 yards. I shot a bear in the liver once with my bow that went 70 yards. 
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 18, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
Right behind the shoulder usually works. This bear didn’t go 40 yards after the shot.

Looks like a heart shot to me good work.  My preference is 4”behind the leg, a little below the midway point. That’s a heart/double lung shot.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 18, 2021, 06:04:46 PM
It is interesting to see the differences between Deer and elk vitals, and those of a black bear. Whereas the heart of the ungulates is directly above the foreleg, that of the bear is just behind, about the same distance from the bottom of the torso. Remember that with the bear, hair hangs down about 4-6 inches below the bottom of the torso. The lungs toward the front on the black bear and elk start at roughly the same place. But the position of the elk's is much more vertical, as the bears seems more horizontal. As many have pointed out, the more effective bear shot is farther back, about 1/4 to 1/3of the torso from the chest.

Did you look at that bear pick? Looks like the lungs are in the neck and the leg bones are nearly out of the skin on the front leg lol. That needs to be shifted back about 4”.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: YellowShells on August 24, 2021, 02:53:06 PM
I bought into the "middle of the middle" hype, and it cost me a nice bear this weekend. Don't ask me why I changed my POA, my first two bears were double-lung or heart shots, or both. I will be going back to a "normal" point of aim, behind the shoulder by maybe a few inches.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on August 24, 2021, 04:52:11 PM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 24, 2021, 05:22:27 PM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......

I'm not suggesting it. I'm pointing out that broadside double lung hits go back as far as mid body. I prefer to shoot close to the < when I can
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jrebel on August 24, 2021, 05:31:59 PM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......

I'm not suggesting it. I'm pointing out that broadside double lung hits go back as far as mid body. I prefer to shoot close to the < when I can


I hate seeing this stuff on hunting forums.....as it is simply not true.  I took a pic of my son's bear yesterday but it has no reference to the half way point.  I can tell you that half way back would have been a gut shot.....maybe liver, but no lungs.  Next bear we kill, I will take pics with reference to the diaphragm.  If I can get it out whole, I will put a tape measure on it to prove my point.  Right behind the shoulder is as good a shot as any.  A shoulder / leg shot is also good.  Half way back is no good in most cases.  If you hit the liver it will kill a bear quick, if you are off by even a little....and shoot back by even a couple inches, you have a got shot bear that will likely never be recovered. 

All of this is assuming the bear is perfectly broadside.  Clearly if it is quartering away, the half way point might be a great entry point with the offside shoulder being the exit. 

Deer and elk are no different....if you are truly half way back, you are too far back and risk a gut shot.  If your luck, the liver will be your saving grace.   
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 24, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
1) my post which appears to have triggered your hate was clearly focused on deer and elk. Again I don't aim for it but middle/middle is a double lung hit, won't bleed much but will kill quickly.

2) hate it or not, it's true and I've killed plenty of bears very quickly with that shot. I don't prefer it over a shoulder shot.

3) lots of bears are hit too far forward and lost.

Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 29, 2021, 01:14:24 PM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......

I'm not suggesting it. I'm pointing out that broadside double lung hits go back as far as mid body. I prefer to shoot close to the < when I can


I hate seeing this stuff on hunting forums.....as it is simply not true.  I took a pic of my son's bear yesterday but it has no reference to the half way point.  I can tell you that half way back would have been a gut shot.....maybe liver, but no lungs.  Next bear we kill, I will take pics with reference to the diaphragm.  If I can get it out whole, I will put a tape measure on it to prove my point.  Right behind the shoulder is as good a shot as any.  A shoulder / leg shot is also good.  Half way back is no good in most cases.  If you hit the liver it will kill a bear quick, if you are off by even a little....and shoot back by even a couple inches, you have a got shot bear that will likely never be recovered. 

All of this is assuming the bear is perfectly broadside.  Clearly if it is quartering away, the half way point might be a great entry point with the offside shoulder being the exit. 

Deer and elk are no different....if you are truly half way back, you are too far back and risk a gut shot.  If your luck, the liver will be your saving grace.

Well this was double lung. Lungs go beyond midway back. Perfectly broadside. You don’t know the internals of a bear as much as you think.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Platensek-po on August 29, 2021, 01:33:34 PM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......

I'm not suggesting it. I'm pointing out that broadside double lung hits go back as far as mid body. I prefer to shoot close to the < when I can


I hate seeing this stuff on hunting forums.....as it is simply not true.  I took a pic of my son's bear yesterday but it has no reference to the half way point.  I can tell you that half way back would have been a gut shot.....maybe liver, but no lungs.  Next bear we kill, I will take pics with reference to the diaphragm.  If I can get it out whole, I will put a tape measure on it to prove my point.  Right behind the shoulder is as good a shot as any.  A shoulder / leg shot is also good.  Half way back is no good in most cases.  If you hit the liver it will kill a bear quick, if you are off by even a little....and shoot back by even a couple inches, you have a got shot bear that will likely never be recovered. 

All of this is assuming the bear is perfectly broadside.  Clearly if it is quartering away, the half way point might be a great entry point with the offside shoulder being the exit. 

Deer and elk are no different....if you are truly half way back, you are too far back and risk a gut shot.  If your luck, the liver will be your saving grace.

Well this was double lung. Lungs go beyond midway back. Perfectly broadside. You don’t know the internals of a bear as much as you think.

That is one awesome picture!
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 30, 2021, 08:25:29 AM
I was listening to the gritty podcast on my way to and from my spring bear adventures. They had a good podcast on shot placement for bears. Both Brian and Ryan say they dissect the bear in half horizontally and vertically and aim where those 2 points meet which is dead center of the bears body. The vitals on a bear are further back then one would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know this is a bear thread but that is also true of deer and elk.
   :yike: :bdid:  That doesn't sound right ?  But I'm a high shoulder guy anyway - don't like packing out of canyon/cliffs ......

I'm not suggesting it. I'm pointing out that broadside double lung hits go back as far as mid body. I prefer to shoot close to the < when I can


I hate seeing this stuff on hunting forums.....as it is simply not true.  I took a pic of my son's bear yesterday but it has no reference to the half way point.  I can tell you that half way back would have been a gut shot.....maybe liver, but no lungs.  Next bear we kill, I will take pics with reference to the diaphragm.  If I can get it out whole, I will put a tape measure on it to prove my point.  Right behind the shoulder is as good a shot as any.  A shoulder / leg shot is also good.  Half way back is no good in most cases.  If you hit the liver it will kill a bear quick, if you are off by even a little....and shoot back by even a couple inches, you have a got shot bear that will likely never be recovered. 

All of this is assuming the bear is perfectly broadside.  Clearly if it is quartering away, the half way point might be a great entry point with the offside shoulder being the exit. 

Deer and elk are no different....if you are truly half way back, you are too far back and risk a gut shot.  If your luck, the liver will be your saving grace.

Well this was double lung. Lungs go beyond midway back. Perfectly broadside. You don’t know the internals of a bear as much as you think.

^ Part of the issue is post mortem examination of the diaphragm and lungs reveal deflated and shrunken vitals.

I shot my 15th and 16th bear a week and a half ago and mid-body hits resulted in a thorough job on the lungs.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on August 30, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Exactly right, deflated Lungs are something like 1/4 the size of inflated lungs.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Bushcraft on August 30, 2021, 01:44:28 PM
It is interesting to see the differences between Deer and elk vitals, and those of a black bear. Whereas the heart of the ungulates is directly above the foreleg, that of the bear is just behind, about the same distance from the bottom of the torso. Remember that with the bear, hair hangs down about 4-6 inches below the bottom of the torso. The lungs toward the front on the black bear and elk start at roughly the same place. But the position of the elk's is much more vertical, as the bears seems more horizontal. As many have pointed out, the more effective bear shot is farther back, about 1/4 to 1/3of the torso from the chest.

I wish people would stop posting these bone pictures. They are bound to convince people to take shots (especially with a bow) that they ought not to do.

The anatomical alignment of the shoulder bones are not correct.  They are too far forward.

If anyone doubts this, simply look at an bulges of the musculature at the top of the scapula under the "hump" of the skin and the pivot point of the shoulder when they walk.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Scruffy on August 31, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
What we need is a pic like Dilleytech's pic but with the bear sawn in half down the back bone.  Then we could see the "skin" side and the inside with them aligned.  That will prove where the lungs are and how far back.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 31, 2021, 04:39:26 AM
What we need is a pic like Dilleytech's pic but with the bear sawn in half down the back bone.  Then we could see the "skin" side and the inside with them aligned.  That will prove where the lungs are and how far back.

That will prove where the dead lungs are, not where the live lungs are. Cutting the rib cage, even on a live animal results in pneumothorax and collapses the lungs.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: trophyhunt on August 31, 2021, 06:20:48 AM
Didn't read the thread, but I've killed a dozen bears, I aim the same place on all my animals with my 300 win.  They all died within yards of being shot, except one, hit back and livered it, found it barley alive the next day and killed it.  Behind the shoulder, aim and shoot.
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: jrebel on August 31, 2021, 08:35:00 AM
Didn't read the thread, but I've killed a dozen bears, I aim the same place on all my animals with my 300 win.  They all died within yards of being shot, except one, hit back and livered it, found it barley alive the next day and killed it.  Behind the shoulder, aim and shoot.

Now you knock that nonsense off!!!!    :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: hunter399 on August 31, 2021, 08:53:49 AM
Didn't read the thread, but I've killed a dozen bears, I aim the same place on all my animals with my 300 win.  They all died within yards of being shot, except one, hit back and livered it, found it barley alive the next day and killed it.  Behind the shoulder, aim and shoot.

Now you knock that nonsense off!!!!    :chuckle: :chuckle:
Just Send It,is what I say.
I'll know if you hit the lungs.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shot placement for black bears.
Post by: dilleytech on September 01, 2021, 08:22:44 AM
What we need is a pic like Dilleytech's pic but with the bear sawn in half down the back bone.  Then we could see the "skin" side and the inside with them aligned.  That will prove where the lungs are and how far back.

The lungs go to the diaphragm. Which is at the last rib. The shot in my picture is 3 ribs from the back rib. If you cut it open you would see the lungs shriveled up in a ball around the heart.
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