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Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: wa.hunter on January 16, 2011, 12:27:49 PM


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Title: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 16, 2011, 12:27:49 PM
 For those of you that are interested History was made last night at 10:45 pm Jan. 15, 2011 with the release of 100+ antelope into the state of Washington. The antelope came from Nevada with full cooperation from their Game Dept. working with one of our Tribal Nations and funded through one of our Non profit organizations. It was a very ceremonious event that all of us resident will benefit from in the future.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 16, 2011, 12:29:41 PM
We'll see
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: gasman on January 16, 2011, 12:45:50 PM
Norsepeak posted about this all ready and I think its great  :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:

Hope they take and build up a huntable populationin my life time.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: huntlakewood on January 16, 2011, 12:50:30 PM
give us more hunts :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: nwwanderer on January 16, 2011, 07:29:01 PM
Watch out!  My research shows the speed goats are very susceptible to blue tongue (EHD) so you can just expect 'management' to help the pronghorn, read less hunting, more control of private land and legal entanglements as we now see with any 'endangered' species.  Nothing against pronghorns, amazing, adapted, beautiful speedster, just gun shy of the Washington state way.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Special T on January 16, 2011, 07:37:10 PM
What tribe and where about? I'm very curious to hear the details of both!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: norsepeak on January 16, 2011, 07:47:53 PM
down on the Satus, I know the yakamas were involved but don't know about any other tribes
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 16, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Good deal, I hope they take hold.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: skynyr on January 16, 2011, 07:57:19 PM
Nice. That'll add about 6 more pages of regulations to gamebook. It's gonna look like a phone book 10 years from now. We're going to have to hire attorneys just to know what is legal when/where. And I'll bet hunting access will continue to get much worse by the time there actually is a huntable population. I'm with NWWanderer, I don't have much faith in the washington way. They're already talking about combining dnr and wdfw, what's with taking on more costly programs? But that's liberal ideaology I guess. Threatening vital services cuts meanwhile pork-barrelling more elobarate projects and wanting more money. Antelope would be cool but is the timing ideal????
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Dan-o on January 16, 2011, 08:11:00 PM
Sounds cool to me.   I'd love to see some lopes racing around out there.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bigelk1030 on January 16, 2011, 10:34:05 PM
I am all for this, new regs or not, maybe our kids one day will be able to hunt them in WA......
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 16, 2011, 11:30:58 PM
If I can show my Wyoming-born son antelope in Washington, I will be pleased.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BlackRidge on January 16, 2011, 11:45:46 PM
Hopefully this isnt the only transplant, 100 is fantastic, but it can't hurt to increase those odds

Glad they got the ball rolling on this!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Annette on January 16, 2011, 11:53:36 PM
Hasn't there been a herd on the Yakima fireing range for quite some time?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 17, 2011, 05:32:58 AM
more off than on
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Hangfire on January 17, 2011, 06:28:59 AM
Is anyone really sure this is a valid report? There should be news reports, pictures or something to confirm. It sounds like wishfull thinking or a fabrication.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 17, 2011, 06:37:58 AM
on another thread, general discussion, Big news for hunters in W.A.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 10:54:53 AM
Was this for real you bet. We assisted in going down to Nevada meeting with Nevada Dept. of Wildlife capturing the antelope and hauling them back and unloading them. There was an orientation meeting involving 100+ volunteers from Nevada that assisted in this capture. You can probably get more info from their website as they recruit their volunteers from there. The release was done on the Yakima Reservation. Total project was funded by SCI through their Shikar grants program. We have been working on this project for over 8 years to get them reintroduced on public ground in this state at great expense, with WDFW to no avail. Just to many hoops to jump through and land owner issues. At this point it appears it is easier to work with the Tribes  to make this a reality come true. There are no high fences on tribal ground so who knows what will happen. Just like the wolf issue I guess WDFW is just going to have to manage another endanger species in this state.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 17, 2011, 11:00:02 AM
Couple questions:

What unit in Nevada did they come out of?

Is WDFW really that difficult to deal with?  Can we realease antelope on other reservations and hope they travel off rez in other parts of the state?

IS the tribe going to allow any non tribal hunting of the antelope as they came from non tribal land with non tribal volunteers?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PolarBear on January 17, 2011, 11:02:07 AM
The tribe is going to make some $$ by selling hunts to whitey just like they are doing in Quinalt.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 17, 2011, 11:13:04 AM
Just like the wolf issue I guess WDFW is just going to have to manage another endanger species in this state.

Antelope an endangered species?   ???   I'm not sure they are a native species in this state, so if anything they will be considered an invasive species.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 270Shooter on January 17, 2011, 11:18:11 AM
The tribe is going to make some $$ by selling hunts to whitey just like they are doing in Quinalt.
No they won't, if they were smart they would already be doing it for deer and elk.

Besides I highly doubt that these pronghorn will last, too many things going against them, especially with the horses in the area that they were released in, Im sure the yakamas will clean em out if they dont die off anyway.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 11:51:09 AM
The antelope came from unit 73 outside of Elko, Nevada. They had a surplus, as their winter ground could not handle them. As for the WDFW issues I really do not want to go there. Here are some facts though. We [SCI] groups spent approx. $50,000 on the Feasability Study to start the process. Identified 8 relocation sites with the Yakima area being the best of them all. The next step was SEPA study for another $50,000 which is open to public comment. Being that they were being introduced as a HUNTABLE species was going to create some real issues and not sure how long this process was going to take. Not to mention that before we could do a release we were going to have to come up with $100,000's of dollars for damages to land owners, and also the funds to do the relocations. Where is all this money going come from??? Next question do we plan to continue with the Tribes I hope so or maybe I should say yes. Will there be non tribal hunting allow? Time will tell as we continue to work with them, there is already tribal hunting allowed on several of the reservations of some form already.  WDFW is already giving our surplus sheep to the tribes so lets hope this all works out to our benifit too. At least it is a start.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 17, 2011, 11:55:32 AM
Was this for real you bet. We assisted in going down to Nevada meeting with Nevada Dept. of Wildlife capturing the antelope and hauling them back and unloading them.

How did you catch them? And is 100 enough to start a viable breeding population?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BlackRidge on January 17, 2011, 12:02:51 PM
Couple questions:

Is the tribe going to allow any non tribal hunting of the antelope as they came from non tribal land with non tribal volunteers?

My guess is yes, as it'l become a natural resource. Not owned by any specific party  :twocents:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Special T on January 17, 2011, 12:08:50 PM
This is one of the reasons i hate Indian bashing threads... It would see the Yakima's, The whipping tribe on this site, does something that OUR WDFW cannot get their Chit together and do.  :bash: It is a PITA some time with the tribes because of their "lack" of structure, but here is the perfect scenario where Tribes and Sportsman can work together... Notice i said Sportsman and NOT WDFW...  :bash:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BlackRidge on January 17, 2011, 12:15:51 PM
I guess my question becomes, and is more addressed to wa.hunter;

How did this all come about?

I understand the SCI was involved, but for those of us who may want to get involved in similar transplants, where do you get started?  Just like with other issues discussed on these forums, as a whole, we're a formidable group, and working together, perhaps this is something we could help with.... since as Special T put it so well, our own DFW can't seem to handle it
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Wacenturion on January 17, 2011, 12:17:48 PM
Was this for real you bet. We assisted in going down to Nevada meeting with Nevada Dept. of Wildlife capturing the antelope and hauling them back and unloading them.

How did you catch them? And is 100 enough to start a viable breeding population?


As I mentioned in another thread..............


A general rule with antelope...............you need at least 100 square miles which is 64,000 acres of suitable range and release at least one animal per square mile which would be 100 antelope within 1-3 years within that area.  Something the ol' Department of Game didn't do.  Too few, too spread out...result...kissing cousins were left after road kills and poaching took the rest.

They got the number right...now if the habitat is large enough and suitable......it may just work.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2011, 12:22:43 PM
I was the first to mention the native's on this thread and it was in no way intended to bash anyone. My question was, will they hunt them or leave them be as this I assume is an attempt to get them established and hunting them right off the get go seems like a poor idea to me.

Another question I have is, are there any plans for more releases in other regions?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Special T on January 17, 2011, 12:24:31 PM
my comment was not directed at you.... I would imagine the only way they could do it is work with another tribe because the WDFW is so wrapped in RED tape.  :bash:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2011, 12:33:52 PM
All good man, I just wanted to clarify. Hopefully there is some more in the works, no matter who does it.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 12:58:04 PM
Blackridg...
How did it come about?? I guess through a vision that we could and would make it happen and staying with that vision and number one coming up with the MONEY. Money makes things happen as does dedicated hunters and conservationist. Put the 2 together and we can and do make things happen. There are 6 SCI chapters in this state we all have our own agendas. If you want to find out more I will be at the Seattle Sportsmen's Convention on Feb. 18th and 19th, 2011 in Bellevue, Wa. for info go to www.workingforwildlife.com (http://www.working4wildlife.com) I am Joe and they will know me there. I can get you signed up and involved. Yes we need help. You would not believe all that we do. We are very involved in Washingtonian's for Wildlife Conservation WWC, Hunter's Heritage Council HHC and Washington State Chapter of Wild Sheep Foundation. If you do not know who all of these organizations are shame on you all. They put in 100's and 1000's of hours working with WDFW and other groups to protect your rights. There are some great people on this site that I have used to help on projects. Wish I could recruit some more of your help and support. More money and more help you would be surprised what we could get done.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Wacenturion on January 17, 2011, 12:58:48 PM
my comment was not directed at you.... I would imagine the only way they could do it is work with another tribe because the WDFW is so wrapped in RED tape.  :bash:

Typical scene with WDFW....question from public.....can we plant antelope?  Ah let me see says bio....talks with his manager  Someone wants to know if we can plant antelope.  Don't know...probably some tree hugger types would question it and may take us to court because they were not here before...and we have snails and butteries to protect at the moment.....so we don't have the means to study it for 30 years, let alone have people to do it then if feasible.  Ah ok.....getting back to public.....sorry...they won't work here.

Oversimplification yes....truth...yes.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 01:03:10 PM
Joe-
Any photos of the release that you can share?

Great job to all involved. Hopefully it works out for the best for the sportsmen of WA.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 01:07:40 PM
I also know the Yakima Tribe has put into place some pretty stiff penalties if any tribal or non-tribal member poach one of these animals. Were they indiginous to our state? Yes and with out their documented records this would not have happened, on or off tribal lands.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2011, 01:08:38 PM
Kudos to them, i hope they thrive
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 17, 2011, 01:11:30 PM
If pronghorn ARE native to this state, and there is proof of that, then the WDFW SHOULD be working to re-establish pronghorn populations just as they are doing with wolves.   :bash:  You'd think they'd be all for it, considering the antelope would provide more food for the wolves.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: CastleRocker on January 17, 2011, 01:32:48 PM
I think this could be a great thing!  (Of course I don't own any alfalfa fields out around the Toppenish/Granger area).  

I agree the WDFW is wrapped in red tape.  However, as I recall, it wasn't all that difficult to obtain permission to introduce wild turkeys to the west side, I wouldn't think antelope would be that much different.  I know they have been here in Washington before.  I know a guy personally who claims to have been a witness to some being killed back in the '70's on the Yakima Firing Range, or should I say the Yakima Training Center as I think it's called now.

My main concern is; how will the hunting/management be regulated, and how will these animals be protected until they propagate enough for hunting?  We already know there are a few on the reservation that have absolutely no regard for any law.  They give the entire Yakima Nation a bad name, but the fact remains, they are there and they will continue to kill everything they can if they continue to get away with it.  Does this SCI/Yakima Nation partnership have any policies or means in place to deal with them?  If not, I think these animals will disappear quickly.  That would be a real shame as I know there are people who have volunteered countless hours of their time, and a LOT of money to make this happen.  If I remember correctly, I think the final cost of a wild turkey from Arkansas to be trapped, shipped, tagged and released in Western Washington was well over $1500.  I'm sure it costs way for an antelope.  Now multiply by 100.

I sincerely hope this works out.  Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 01:35:07 PM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your pnone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than neccessary with alot of flashes going off.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 01:39:55 PM
Bobcat good suggestion but it is the FEDS that are actually doing the wolf thing and the state has to obey to some degree. I ask the same question .... why are we not forcing them the FEDS to do this with the antelope and bison? We have ample Federal ground in this state.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 17, 2011, 01:42:23 PM
Yes, I have also thought the same thing- if it is necessary to re-establish wolves in this state, why not bison?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your pnone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than neccessary with alot of flashes going off.

PM sent
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 17, 2011, 01:53:06 PM
I want to thank SCI for supporting this cause as they so often do.

I wonder if antelope or bison were native in Washington?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 17, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
I want to thank SCI for supporting this cause as they so often do.

I wonder if antelope or bison were native in Washington?

yes both antelope and bison were native in washington
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: C-Money on January 17, 2011, 01:56:44 PM
Good news! Glad to hear some good news for a change! Hope to be able to see them someday. I think 100 animals should do well and grow. Pennsylvania started with a small number of elk that scientist figured to be doomed due to inbreeding, but they are thriving there now! Lets hope the speed goats can do even better!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 17, 2011, 01:57:46 PM
I want to thank SCI for supporting this cause as they so often do.

I wonder if antelope or bison were native in Washington?

yes both antelope and bison were native in washington

 I know antelope were native, the N. American bison society show's the bison's historic range outside of Wa., in Idaho.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 02:00:21 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 17, 2011, 02:07:11 PM
I want to thank SCI for supporting this cause as they so often do.

I wonder if antelope or bison were native in Washington?

yes both antelope and bison were native in washington

 I know antelope were native, the N. American bison society show's the bison's historic range outside of Wa., in Idaho.


hopefully the map will open

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bison_original_range_map.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bison_original_range_map.svg)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Wacenturion on January 17, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
Here's a map that shows they did exist in the SE corner...............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bison_original_range_map.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bison_original_range_map.svg)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Wacenturion on January 17, 2011, 02:16:29 PM
Article regarding antelope in eastern Washington................


http://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2007Pronghorn.pdf (http://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2007Pronghorn.pdf)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Heritage Hunter on January 17, 2011, 02:17:42 PM
The whole project was an amazing example of what CAN be done.  There was an amazing number of people involved in this endeavor, and each and every one of them should be congratulated.  

For those of you not already involved in SCI, please consider becoming a member and making your voice heard.  As one of the world's leading hunting AND conservation groups, this is but a small example of the dedicated effort and good work they do.  As hunters and conservationists, it is our responsibility to protect our sport and be stewards of our wildlife--with or without the help of our State.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 17, 2011, 02:22:32 PM
Article regarding antelope in eastern Washington................


http://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2007Pronghorn.pdf (http://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2007Pronghorn.pdf)

Very interesting map, thanks... they were all over eastern WA.

Heritage Hunter I totally agree, SCI does more for hunters than most people know.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 17, 2011, 02:29:56 PM
 Wiki is not recognized as a scholarly journal - :twocents:.

 http://headwaterseconomics.org/bison/BisonAtlasSummary.pdf (http://headwaterseconomics.org/bison/BisonAtlasSummary.pdf)


 All that said, it could be possible transients made it to Washington as strays, but that does not constitute a "native population", speaking strictly on bison.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Heritage Hunter on January 17, 2011, 02:30:44 PM
That first picture is one of the first antelope bucks back in Washington State.  He is one of 10 males and 90 females to make the trek.  Here is one of a doe just ready to step out of the transport trailer.  History....great stuff to see!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 17, 2011, 02:40:54 PM
The Holocene History of Pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) in Eastern Washington State

Abstract

Historical documents are ambiguous regarding the presence/absence and distribution of pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) in eastern Washington State. Paleozoological archaeological and paleontological) data indicate pronghorn were present there during most of the last 10,000 years, and available samples imply the boundaries of pronghorn distribution coincided with the modern distribution of shrub-steppe habitats. There is no evidence of temporal fluctuation in the abundance of pronghorn that cannot be explained by sampling error. Pronghorn were abundant relative to wapiti (Cervus elaphus) at the mouth of the Snake River but rare near the Washington–Idaho border. Pronghorn were never abundant relative to other ungulates, but were occasionally sufficiently numerous to form herds that were taken communally by groups of prehistoric hunters. Pronghorn were present but rare in the nineteenth century and did not persist into the twentieth century.

Author to whom correspondence should be addressed. Email:
lymanr@missouri.edu

Introduction
When Taylor and Shaw (1929:31) produced their provisional list of land mammals of Washington State, they noted that pronghorn (Antilocapraamericana) were at that time “extirpated” within the state but “the former range included much of the plains country of eastern Washington.” Some years later Booth (1947:592) indicated that pronghorn “do not normally occur in Washington” but that this species’ range “probably extended into this state formerly, for a skull has been found in Okanogan County.” The skull was recovered from the extreme northeastern corner of Okanogan County, and Booth (1947:594) speculated that its find location may not indicate that pronghorn had actually ranged that far north in the past because the skull “may have been carried there by an Indian, a trapper, or a hunter.” Dalquest (1948:415) reported that as far as he knew, “there is no record by any of the early explorers of antelope killed or seen in what is now Washington [State]. No bones of antelope have been discovered in caves in eastern Washington.”

Among the records left by early explorers that Dalquest consulted, Suckley and Gibbs (1860:136) doubted the validity of Lewis and Clark’s report that pronghorn could be found in the Columbia Basin of eastern Washington because they (Suckley and Gibbs) failed to observe any. J. G. Cooper (1868:537), a naturalist who accompanied survey parties seeking a railroad route into the West, however, reported second-hand information that in the area “towards the most westerly bend of the Columbia [River], a region uninhabited, and almost unknown to the Indians, large herds of Antelopes [were seen].” Einarsen (1948:3) later indicated that the southern half of eastern Washington was occupied by pronghorn when its range was at its “greatest extent” but he does not identify any evidence for his comment.

More recently, Ingles (1965:437) implied that pronghorn are not native to Washington and stated that they were “introduced in central Washington in 1938,” referring to the release of pronghorn by the State Game Department in the “Squaw Creek Refuge in southern Kittitas and northern Yakima counties” (Booth 1947:594). O’Gara (1978:2) reported that pronghorn were transplanted from Oregon and the Charles Sheldom National Antelope Refuge in Nevada and illustrated two areas where pronghorn were found in Washington; his map is at a scale that does not allow determination of the exact location of those two areas. Kitchen and O’Gara (1982) reiterated the historic range shown by Ingles (1965). Yoakum and O’Gara (2000) illustrated the “original range” described by Nelson (1925); it included a small portion of south-central Washington along the Washington–Oregon border. They contradicted that map, however, when they stated that Washington was “outside of ancestral habitats” of the species (Yoakum and O’Gara 2000:562). Pronghorn in Eastern Washington State 105 Yoakum (2004:77–80) reprints eight range maps generated during the twentieth century, none of which include eastern Washington in pronghorn range. Finally, McCabe et al. (2004:9–10) show what they term the “presumed macro-range at the time of European contact” as including much of eastern Washington. This map seems to be based at least in part on prehistoric remains of pronghorn (McCabe et al. 2004:21).

In sum, the historic evidence is ambiguous regarding the presence of pronghorn. Biologists who have commented on the native or ancestral range of this ungulate in eastern Washington do not agree on the boundaries of that range. It is perhaps for this reason that the most recent synopsis of Washington State mammals does not include any reference to pre-1900 pronghorn and merely mentions that the population transplanted to the state early in the twentieth century had been extirpated by the 1990s (Johnson and Cassidy 1997).

Were pronghorn in Washington State during early historic times? Were they present in  pre-Columbian (pre-sixteenth century) times? If they were present, did their distribution shift with climate, as did that of bison (Bison sp.), wapiti (Cervuselaphus), and bighorn sheep (Ovis canadensis) (e.g., Parks 2000; Lyman 2004a, 2004b)? Finally, were pronghorn present in post-Columbian times, and why were they (apparently) not (or at least quite rarely) present in the nineteenth century?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 04:01:26 PM
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/articles/2011/01/17/Antelope+Arrive+In+WA+Over+Weekend/ (http://nwsportsmanmag.com/articles/2011/01/17/Antelope+Arrive+In+WA+Over+Weekend/)


Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 04:02:40 PM
Antelope Arrive In WA Over Weekend
(Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:56:17 +0000)
Last week, they were racing across the northeast Nevada sage. Today, they’re learning about their new digs 450 miles to the north-northwest in South-central Washington.

In a lightning-fast move, 100 antelope were captured Saturday by the Nevada Department of Wildlife and dozens of volunteers, and 99 were driven in livestock trailers to the Mabton area of the Yakama Nation’s reservation and released.

“I had the last load, and unloaded them at 12:45 a.m.” Sunday morning, says Glenn Rasmussen of the Central Washington Chapter of Safari Club International.  “Oh, yeah (it’s exciting). This is something we’ve been working on for a long time.”


VOLUNTEERS AND OTHERS AWAIT THE ARRIVAL OF THE ANTELOPE HERD. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

He says his organization had first tried to work with the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife on reintroduction, including doing studies of potential release sites. But when that didn’t pan out, they found that the Yakamas were interested in bringing the so-called “speed goats” back to the reservation.

“It’s their project, we just arranged the financing,” says Rasmussen.


A HELICOPTER IS USED TO HERD THE ANIMALS TOWARDS NET TRAPS. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

He says that nine or ten bucks rode back in crates on a flatbed driven by tribal representatives.

Due to the federal holiday, Yakama wildlife officials were unavailable for comment.


TEAMS WORK TO SUBDUE AND CALM THE ANIMALS. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

Antelope were gone from Washington by the mid-1800s, but four releases were made between the Great Depression and the Vietnam War era, according to a 2008 article by the Seattle PI. The animals hung on on the Yakima Training Center, but over time the population waned and disappeared.

“We don’t know if it was soldiers shooting them or what,” says Rasmussen.

The idea for reintroducing the species came when the club was looking for a conservation project.

“My son, Eric, made the suggestion, ‘Why don’t we reintroduce antelope into Washington?” he says.


WORKERS HOLD UP AN IV DRIP BAG FOR AN OVERHEATED ANTELOPE. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

A year ago, it looked as if it was on, but a helicopter crash scrapped plans to trade live buffalo from the Yakamas for antelope from the Duck Valley Reservation on the Nevada-Idaho line, Rasmussen says.

He has high praise for NDOW: “Boy, that Nevada game department is efficient.”

They were assisted by Nevada Bighorns Unlimited.


A DOE IS JUST ABOUT TO BE LOADED INTO A LIVESTOCK TRAILER FOR TRANSPORTATION TO WASHINGTON. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

After the animals were netted, they were blindfolded and hobbled and taken to a staging area where a veterinarian drew blood samples and gave them shots, Rasmussen says.

Then they were moved into waiting trailers.

“That was the rodeo part — loading them in,” he says. “Every time you opened the door, the others were jumping to get out.”


CAPTURED AND TAGGED ANTELOPE AWAIT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR JOURNEY NORTH TO WASHINGTON. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

Ironically, the one radio-collared antelope in the bunch escaped.

Rasmussen says they were given drugs for the ride back, a rainy slog north up U.S. Highway 93 then west on I-84. He drove a couple dozen animals to Washington.

“Releasing them was real simple, and was almost an anticlimax,” he says.

One in Rasmussen’s trailer had a broken leg and had to be put down, however.


THE BUCKS WERE TRANSPORTED IN CRATES. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

The tribe identified 40,000 acres of the reservation that would make “fair to good” habitat for the species, although there’s currently also an overpopulation of mustangs on its 1.2 million acres.

A grad student may follow the herd around, Rasmussen says.

“If there’s a huntable population, that’s fine,” he says, “but I don’t think anyone’s concerned about that. When you travel through Wyoming, it’s just nice to see them. I don’t expect to go shoot them.”


A NEW HOME, A NEW RANGE FOR A NEVADA DOE RELEASED ONTO THE YAKAMA RESERVATION SOUTH OF MABTON. (COURTESY SCI-CENTRAL WASHINGTON CHAPTER)

In other tribal wildlife releases news, last year saw the introduction of 170 turkeys onto the Tulalip Reservation north of Everett, Wash.


Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 17, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
Sweet guys! Thanks for the pics and info :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 400out on January 17, 2011, 04:20:52 PM
great another permit application  :bash: :bash: :bash: ;)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: zackmioli on January 17, 2011, 04:26:24 PM
this is really cool news! hopefully one day we are able to have a large sustainable and huntable herd. loved seeing the speed goats out in montana!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jdb on January 17, 2011, 04:28:49 PM
The tribe is going to make some $$ by selling hunts to whitey just like they are doing in Quinalt.
No they won't, if they were smart they would already be doing it for deer and elk.  
.
they cant they have all but wiped out the deer and elk population out there thats why theyre doing so much off reservation hunting now.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Cougeyes on January 17, 2011, 04:32:13 PM
Quick question....why were they released in winter and not the spring/summer?  Was it because they're on their winter grounds and more concentrated in groups?  To me it would make more sense to have done it during spring greenup when more forbs and grasses were available.  Just curious? 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: arees on January 17, 2011, 05:07:54 PM
Wiki is not recognized as a scholarly journal - :twocents:.

 http://headwaterseconomics.org/bison/BisonAtlasSummary.pdf (http://headwaterseconomics.org/bison/BisonAtlasSummary.pdf)


 All that said, it could be possible transients made it to Washington as strays, but that does not constitute a "native population", speaking strictly on bison.

While Wikipedia is not recognized as a scholarly journal, they often do cite their sources.  The bison map shown comes from Wild mammals of North America: biology, management, and conservation By George A. Feldhamer, Bruce Carlyle Thompson, Joseph A. Chapman.  It can be found on page 1012 through a Google Books search.  You can judge the scholarship of Mr Feldhamer et. al. as apropriate.

Meanwhile a reading of the Headwater Econmomics bison atlas summary produces this:

The region for bison restoration is defined in this Atlas as the U.S. states of Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming, and the Canadian provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan. (See map on following page.)

This region was defined for us by WCS with the understanding that it does not cover the entire historic range of the bison. For example, bison have historically ranged east of the analysis area, such as Iowa, Missouri and even east of the Mississippi River. By excluding the Yukon Territory this Atlas does not cover the full historical range of all bison, particular the wood bison. Also, we did not include Oregon in this Atlas, even though bison were known to exist in eastern Oregon historically, and some herds may exist there today. See map on following page.


By thier own statement, the atlas does not cover the entire historic range of the bison.  Some examples are given with the implication that other regions were also left out.  I did not find any explicit statement in that atlas on the historic existance of bison in Washington.  Perhaps I did not read far enough.

I am not an expert on historic bison distribution.

As for the midnight antelope release, congratulations on finding a way around WDFW. 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: ramslam on January 17, 2011, 05:22:49 PM
Cougeyes,

I would assume its the same for this transplant but these projects are typically done this time of year.  Winter ranges generally contain large herds, cool temperatures help minimize stress/overheating and its really important to catch females in early to mid-gestation to minimize potential for aborted offspring.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 17, 2011, 05:40:01 PM
Really awesome, great work and congrats to all involved!!!!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wsucowboy on January 17, 2011, 05:52:27 PM
Hopefully they take place. Always have wanted to see speed goats in Washington.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Wacenturion on January 17, 2011, 06:32:30 PM
Cougeyes,

I would assume its the same for this transplant but these projects are typically done this time of year.  Winter ranges generally contain large herds, cool temperatures help minimize stress/overheating and its really important to catch females in early to mid-gestation to minimize potential for aborted offspring.




Would be nearly impossible to get the numbers and sex ratio effectively outside this time frame.  As mentioned above....large numbers, easy to trap, cooler temperatures.....generally when most wildlife trap and transfer efforts take place.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 06:36:06 PM
Sorry guys I posted the wrong address to get involved with supporting some of the groups that raise the funds to get projects like this done, has been a busy day working4wildlife.com is how it should have read. Come to the event find out what we all do.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Bob33 on January 17, 2011, 06:48:46 PM
Fantastic. Thank you Safari Club, all the volunteers that helped, and the Yakama Nation.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 17, 2011, 08:07:17 PM
Sorry guys I posted the wrong address to get involved with supporting some of the groups that raise the funds to get projects like this done, has been a busy day working4wildlife.com is how it should have read. Come to the event find out what we all do.

I fixed it up for you.
The link in the previous post is correct now.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 17, 2011, 09:32:57 PM
Jackalope thanks you have been a great help.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: spottedhorse on January 18, 2011, 02:13:48 PM
Wa hunter & Jackalope,
I was one of the volunteers from Nevada that helped with the capture. It is great to hear that they made it o.k. and are checking out the new digs! I wanted to ask if you mind if I share a couple of your photos with family & friends. I have a few myself but did not have a chance to take many pictures. I also have two videos of antelope being captured by the net from the trucks that I can share, but I'm not sure how to post them. I have them posted on facebook currently. Thank you for letting my husband & myself help; I hope they thrive and provide everyone with new hunting opportunities.
Amy
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jstone on January 18, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
That would be awesome. We will still have something to hunt when the wolfs kill everything else. They should be able out run the wolfs. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 18, 2011, 02:21:16 PM
Wa hunter & Jackalope,
I was one of the volunteers from Nevada that helped with the capture. It is great to hear that they made it o.k. and are checking out the new digs! I wanted to ask if you mind if I share a couple of your photos with family & friends. I have a few myself but did not have a chance to take many pictures. I also have two videos of antelope being captured by the net from the trucks that I can share, but I'm not sure how to post them. I have them posted on facebook currently. Thank you for letting my husband & myself help; I hope they thrive and provide everyone with new hunting opportunities.
Amy

Amy-
send me links to the videos if they are posted to youtube and I will post them. I emailed you pics to the email in your profile here. Welcome to the site.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: agchawk on January 18, 2011, 02:23:18 PM
Wa hunter & Jackalope,
I was one of the volunteers from Nevada that helped with the capture. It is great to hear that they made it o.k. and are checking out the new digs! I wanted to ask if you mind if I share a couple of your photos with family & friends. I have a few myself but did not have a chance to take many pictures. I also have two videos of antelope being captured by the net from the trucks that I can share, but I'm not sure how to post them. I have them posted on facebook currently. Thank you for letting my husband & myself help; I hope they thrive and provide everyone with new hunting opportunities.
Amy

 Welcome to the site spottedhorse!! I'd love to see the videos on here. Hopefully Jack can help get them posted on here.

 Thanks for your efforts in getting the goats up here. There are many of us up here that really appreciate everything that went into it.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 18, 2011, 02:23:56 PM
Yes that would be sweet to see :drool: :chuckle: Welcome and thanks for sharing :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: spottedhorse on January 18, 2011, 02:46:20 PM
Jackalope explained how to get links; as soon as they upload to youtube (looks like the files will take a couple hours) I will post them. I am glad we could help: I know I truly enjoy seeing them in the wild & having opportunities to hunt them. I'm just glad we could share that experience with Washington!
Amy
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: gasman on January 18, 2011, 02:55:56 PM
Thank you Spottedhorse for your efforts  :hello:

I can't wait to see the video    :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:

All this talk makes me a bit excited, exited to think that some day my daughter may be able to hunt speed goats here in our home state.



Again, thank you and thanks you to all that made this possible.

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PolarBear on January 18, 2011, 02:59:31 PM
 :yeah:
When I told my daughter about this she started jumping up and down and wanted to know when she could start putting in for a hunt.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 18, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
all of what those guys said X2. Thank you very much
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 18, 2011, 03:28:03 PM
Peak of breeding in NV is the month of September with a 242 days average gestation.  All of the yearling and adult females should be pregnant, giving birth in the month of May.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 18, 2011, 03:30:42 PM
Peak of breeding in NV is the month of September with a 242 days average gestation.  All of the yearling and adult females should be pregnant, giving birth in the month of May.

so are most of the antelope brought here pregnant?  thats awesome!!!  anyone gonny be driving around there this weekend with binos and a camera?   i might be..   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Heritage Hunter on January 18, 2011, 03:40:39 PM
That's correct.  The majority of the does should be bred and pregnant currently.  We'll see what, if any, transportation loss we had come birthing time, but everyone is optomistic.  If we can figure out a way to drop the coyote population in the area in the interim, I think that would be a bonus.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 18, 2011, 03:43:41 PM
I would recommend the res lifting is ban on killing coyotes in that area for a bit. 

Makes sense to me???
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Cougeyes on January 18, 2011, 03:48:30 PM
I would recommend the res lifting is ban on killing coyotes in that area for a bit. 

Makes sense to me???

Coyote hunting on the res is banned in that area??  You're kidding me.  They better allow come fawning season forsure. 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 18, 2011, 03:52:58 PM
YA.  IF COYOTE HUNTING IS BANNED IN THE AREA THAT DEFINATELY NEEDS TO BE BANNED,  OR AT LEAST HAVE VOLUNTEERS COME OUT THE AND REDUCE THE COYOTE POPULATION.  I WILL VOLUNTEER MY TIME FOR A CAUSE LIKE THAT.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 18, 2011, 04:21:55 PM
YA.  IF COYOTE HUNTING IS BANNED IN THE AREA THAT DEFINATELY NEEDS TO BE BANNED

YOU WANT TO BAN THE BAN?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BlackRidge on January 18, 2011, 04:29:02 PM
Is that like a double-negative = a positive?  :dunno:

ban + ban = no ban...?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 18, 2011, 04:30:27 PM
Is that like a double-negative = a positive?  :dunno:

ban + ban = no ban...?

Yeah I guess- I just thought it was a funny way to put it and had to give him a hard time.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 18, 2011, 04:31:50 PM
:yeah:
When I told my daughter about this she started jumping up and down and wanted to know when she could start putting in for a hunt.

Funny, PathfinderJR did pretty much the same thing.  When I told him his eyes got real big and the first thing he said was "So, when can we start putting in for them too...?" :chuckle:
Thanks to everyone that is helping with the project, from the Pathfinder household... :tup:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: ellensburgpo on January 18, 2011, 10:52:50 PM
I think that's it's a great thing, as long as it's done right. One more species to hunt is ok by me.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Guy on January 19, 2011, 05:33:27 AM
This is great. I've often wondered why we don't have any antelope. Cool. Well done.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BallisticsNut on January 19, 2011, 05:56:42 AM
Sorry guys I posted the wrong address to get involved with supporting some of the groups that raise the funds to get projects like this done, has been a busy day working4wildlife.com is how it should have read. Come to the event find out what we all do.

Thanks Joe for posting this and staying on top of this topic. 
 :kneel:
Some of you wanted to know more and how to get involved.  Here is the link to the local Puget Sound Chapter of SCI and some of the projects we support.  We created the website about a year ago to try and get more info about our organization out to the public.  This has been my baby since inception from the creative process, design and hosting.  Please take the time to visit our site and forums.  Keep in mind, the site is less then a year old and it continues to evolve.   

www.sciseattlepsc.com (http://www.sciseattlepsc.com)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Tom Reichner on January 19, 2011, 06:04:46 AM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your phone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than necessary with alot of flashes going off.
I'm surprised that the release would have been done this way (late at night).  I would think that such a significant event would have had press releases for all media outlets, local and state news crews there to film it for regional TV, a film crew from SCI so that they can fully document their work here in the state, etc.  It seems like something that would have been a big deal, with a lot of attention.  

It just surprises me that we, the public, didn't hear about this release before it was done, or get to see it live, as it was being done.

Perhaps this was intentionally kept on the "down low"?  

Hopefully, the next time something like this is scheduled to happen, the media is better at sniffing it out and letting the public know about it in advance.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 19, 2011, 07:13:15 AM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your phone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than necessary with alot of flashes going off.
I'm surprised that the release would have been done this way (late at night).  I would think that such a significant event would have had press releases for all media outlets, local and state news crews there to film it for regional TV, a film crew from SCI so that they can fully document their work here in the state, etc.  It seems like something that would have been a big deal, with a lot of attention.  

It just surprises me that we, the public, didn't hear about this release before it was done, or get to see it live, as it was being done.

Perhaps this was intentionally kept on the "down low"?  

Hopefully, the next time something like this is scheduled to happen, the media is better at sniffing it out and letting the public know about it in advance.

Oooooooorrrrrrrrrrrr.................
They wanted to keep the stress to the animals to a minimum and get them out of the trailers ASAP?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 19, 2011, 07:27:16 AM
Probably didn't hear about it because it was not a WDFW sanctioned "event."  Basically was done in another "nation"- the Yakama Nation. It'd be the same if something like this was done north of our border in Canada.  :dunno:    :twocents:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 19, 2011, 07:30:01 AM
It was posted by someone involved that they did it at night to reduce stress on animals and get them released as quickly as possible. I think he also said they didn't want a lot of camera flashes, etc. or something to that effect.

FYI - Yesterday I believe the WDFW commented to the House resources committee that antelope were released.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2011, 07:32:42 AM
I am just really hopeful that there are more to come. 4 or 5 more plants around the state would be very cool. I am sure i can find some private land for em to release some around here.  ;)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on January 19, 2011, 07:48:31 AM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your phone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than necessary with alot of flashes going off.
I'm surprised that the release would have been done this way (late at night).  I would think that such a significant event would have had press releases for all media outlets, local and state news crews there to film it for regional TV, a film crew from SCI so that they can fully document their work here in the state, etc.  It seems like something that would have been a big deal, with a lot of attention.  

It just surprises me that we, the public, didn't hear about this release before it was done, or get to see it live, as it was being done.

Perhaps this was intentionally kept on the "down low"?  

Hopefully, the next time something like this is scheduled to happen, the media is better at sniffing it out and letting the public know about it in advance.

Oooooooorrrrrrrrrrrr.................
They wanted to keep the stress to the animals to a minimum and get them out of the trailers ASAP?


from what I gather antelope dont do captivity well so night release quickly and quietly to reduce stress would be important ..it isnt always secret agendas and stuff sometimes it is simple good animal handling practices to increase the odds of success.
 :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 19, 2011, 08:20:46 AM
I am just really hopeful that there are more to come. 4 or 5 more plants around the state would be very cool. I am sure i can find some private land for em to release some around here.  ;)

 :yeah:

I definitely agree, several releases from different areas would add gentic diversity and bolster numbers.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Raul Duke on January 19, 2011, 08:45:29 AM
I cant wait for the day I drive over sastus pass, and look , and see Antelope grazing in the feilds.

This is a great idea, and I hope one day my kids have the chance to mount one on there walls.

 :tup: Big thumbs up to everyone involved.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 19, 2011, 09:41:30 AM
Josh,
I am not to good at posting pics. send me your phone number and I will send you a pic off my cell phone. I filmed the whole event with the exception of the release which was done late at night as we did not want to keep them contained any longer than we need to and we did not want to stress them any more than necessary with alot of flashes going off.
I'm surprised that the release would have been done this way (late at night).  I would think that such a significant event would have had press releases for all media outlets, local and state news crews there to film it for regional TV, a film crew from SCI so that they can fully document their work here in the state, etc.  It seems like something that would have been a big deal, with a lot of attention.  

It just surprises me that we, the public, didn't hear about this release before it was done, or get to see it live, as it was being done.

Perhaps this was intentionally kept on the "down low"?  

Hopefully, the next time something like this is scheduled to happen, the media is better at sniffing it out and letting the public know about it in advance.

Oooooooorrrrrrrrrrrr.................
They wanted to keep the stress to the animals to a minimum and get them out of the trailers ASAP?


from what I gather antelope dont do captivity well so night release quickly and quietly to reduce stress would be important ..it isnt always secret agendas and stuff sometimes it is simple good animal handling practices to increase the odds of success.
 :tinfoil:

Sorry you had to wait for so long to finally use that new emoticon Run... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Practical Approach on January 19, 2011, 10:02:17 AM
Congratulations to the Yakama Nation, the  Nevada Game department and all of the volunteering people and organizatons that made this transplant happen.  I hope these animals do well.  I am curious if anyone knows why WDFW was not able to work with Nevada when they were first approached??????Anyone have any insight to what happened?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2011, 10:16:57 AM
This got me to thinking...I wonder if WDFW would get on board if we could get this on the news and tell the truth about how it all took place and the dept's lack of motivation on this issue.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 19, 2011, 10:28:38 AM
It would probably be along the lines of the WDFW is not in the business of providing targets for hunters.  :dunno:

Seriously, I think the issue may have been that there really is no proof that antelope were ever present in this state. So they'd be introducing an invasive species.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 19, 2011, 10:37:46 AM
Not sure about that Bobcat.  I think there were originally some here.
You are right about one thing though, the ranchers will consider them an "invasive species".  In Montana they hold them just above rats...  Possibly one reason this was kept fairly quiet...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on January 19, 2011, 11:49:56 AM
Not sure about that Bobcat.  I think there were originally some here.
You are right about one thing though, the ranchers will consider them an "invasive species".  In Montana they hold them just above rats...  Possibly one reason this was kept fairly quiet...

I wonder if the fact that these were released on the Yakama reservation, by the Yakama's, if the WDFW will not have to pay for any damage they do to private property, as they do with deer/elk.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: gunnarnewt on January 19, 2011, 11:50:39 AM
     I'm glad to see it's finally happened! Somebody asked if Wdfw was that hard to work with.......Are you kidding me? when I moved home from Montana, I was at a hunter safety course with one of my kids, and told the biologist and warden in attendance how happy I was to see a thriving deer herd on the wildlife refuge (columbia, white bluffs area) bordering my family's farm......there response was to inform me that the next year they were implementing an either sex season to eliminate the herd as much as possible! their reasoning was that deer were not "indiginous" to the area! I congratulated them on their "forward thinking" and replied that we are far better off to manage our state for jackrabbits and horny toads than for big game animals that could undoubtedly bring much needed revenue to the state! I had asked them also about the chance of planting goats on the wildlife refuge (Columbia) and they laughed and said slim to none. What a waste of prime antelope range! Natural borders abound and private land encroachment would be minimal, but as was said before, our wonderful, and insightful game department just doesn't want to deal with it. how sad. I for one am glad the tribe stepped up and brought them in!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 19, 2011, 11:59:20 AM
Not sure about that Bobcat.  I think there were originally some here.
You are right about one thing though, the ranchers will consider them an "invasive species".  In Montana they hold them just above rats...  Possibly one reason this was kept fairly quiet...

I wonder if the fact that these were released on the Yakama reservation, by the Yakama's, if the WDFW will not have to pay for any damage they do to private property, as they do with deer/elk.

Probably got something to do with it.  Less red tape to get it approved...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 19, 2011, 12:12:10 PM
I got a bad feeling about this and I'm guessing I won't be told the answer.

How long was it from the time these antelope were captured and the time they were shipped?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2011, 12:13:25 PM
what do you mean?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 19, 2011, 12:25:16 PM
I got a bad feeling about this and I'm guessing I won't be told the answer.

How long was it from the time these antelope were captured and the time they were shipped?

Page 4 of this thread...

Quote
In a lightning-fast move, 100 antelope were captured Saturday by the Nevada Department of Wildlife and dozens of volunteers, and 99 were driven in livestock trailers to the Mabton area of the Yakama Nation’s reservation and released.


They were released starting around 10:45 pm saturday night.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 19, 2011, 02:41:40 PM
Quote
what do you mean?

What I'm getting at (and I realize that I'll be the bad guy here, and no, it doesn't bother me) is that collecting animals from another state and bringing them into this state without proper testing, (or without waiting for the results of those tests) is VERY IRRESPONSIBLE.

 :bdid:

There is extensive testing that is done on livestock that cross state lines and unless there is some sort of test that I'm unaware of.........these actions were done foregoing the responsible testing.

I can appreciate cutting a few corners and red tape to get things done, but not at the risk to Washington agriculture.    :bash: :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 19, 2011, 02:44:18 PM
That doesn't make you a bad guy, seems like a reasonable question to me  :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 19, 2011, 03:06:49 PM
That doesn't make you a bad guy, seems like a reasonable question to me  :dunno:

I agree and must admit, I had not thought of that, good thinking Gringo, hopefully they were tested or ?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: butcher98951 on January 19, 2011, 03:15:28 PM
I think its cool and i am planning a trip to go look at them this weekend with my daughter... And as for the talk of them being poached by natives or by WHITEY as some would say,   the tribe is watching them very close and is doing a great job, They have done this before with the sheep and are doing a great job of managing them... Thanks Yakama Nation for doing this..
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Practical Approach on January 19, 2011, 03:16:11 PM
I would wager to guess that the blood was pulled for disease testing.  However, my guess is that pronghorn cannot be held very long due to stress related issues resulting from capture and captivity.   Therefore, they were relocated and released ASAP.  I would hope that if any contagious diseases show up in the blood tests that the diseased animals or herd will be eradicated.  However, I would hope that Nevada would not offer up pronghorn from areas where known disease issues occur within the population.  I don't think I would get too worked up until all the details have been announced.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on January 19, 2011, 04:11:25 PM
Practical Approach
Good reply as all of the antelope were ear tagged and with many colors in case there were any issues. Their vets were on site and did take blood samples from each antelope for testing purposes. Also 40% of them have radio callars on them. I am sure they can find them and any particular one if neccessary. Nevada Game Dept. is not new at doing this and were very professional in all aspects of how this was handled.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 19, 2011, 04:27:02 PM
 
Quote
were very professional in all aspects of how this was handled


Testing then shipping to find our results later is NOT professional.


I happen to know they were tested, I also am told they are waiting for results.
 :bdid:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Practical Approach on January 19, 2011, 04:41:57 PM
It isn't uncommon to relocate animals that reside in an area that does not have a history of contagious diseases without prior test results in hand. 

The price tag would be substantially increased if you had to catch the animals, test them, realease them and then catch them again at a later date once the results were in.  Not only do you have to catch them twice, you double the stress on the animals, not to mention the huge increase in the price tag associated with the relocation.

It sounds like they were released in a designated area that probably is in no way near cattle, so they should have the results prior to any antelope leaving the rez.   One would think the Tribe doesn't want to invest money in this relocation and then release them in an area where they can walk right off the reservation.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 19, 2011, 05:41:13 PM
I think that's all fine and good but in reality total BS.

It IS uncommon and usually illegal to move animals across state lines without the proper testing and paperwork.

The "price tag" is cheap in comparison to an "issue".



Why does the res have the right to put Washington Agriculture at risk because they don't want to pony up the cost of doing it correctly?  Why do the cattlemen have to pony up the $$$ to test, release, read, then resample any animals with a reaction?  That causes stress to the cattle, as well as labor etc.

Don't get me too wrong here.  I like that people had a goal and got it done.  I do believe it to end up in a train wreck, but this type of BS of shipping before anyone knows if there were any positives is crazy.  I suppose the rules apply to those that follow them.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 19, 2011, 05:51:15 PM
Gringo31 is spot on,and I do hope the WSDA and state Vet do get involved, Laws have been broken.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: butcher98951 on January 19, 2011, 07:28:12 PM
I think that's all fine and good but in reality total BS.

It IS uncommon and usually illegal to move animals across state lines without the proper testing and paperwork.

The "price tag" is cheap in comparison to an "issue".



Why does the res have the right to put Washington Agriculture at risk because they don't want to pony up the cost of doing it correctly?  Why do the cattlemen have to pony up the $$$ to test, release, read, then resample any animals with a reaction?  That causes stress to the cattle, as well as labor etc.

Don't get me too wrong here.  I like that people had a goal and got it done.  I do believe it to end up in a train wreck, but this type of BS of shipping before anyone knows if there were any positives is crazy.  I suppose the rules apply to those that follow them.




no laws have been broken and yes they still do transport cattle and other live stock across state line without test in hand...why do you think its just the NATION the nevada state game is in it to along with the SCI...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: buck man on January 19, 2011, 09:20:27 PM
If pronghorn ARE native to this state, and there is proof of that, then the WDFW SHOULD be working to re-establish pronghorn populations just as they are doing with wolves.   :bash:  You'd think they'd be all for it, considering the antelope would provide more food for the wolves.   :dunno:
I have not read all the posts so this may be redundant, but as a kid elk hunting the west bar I counted 17 antelope, and saw them 2 different times 2 years apart. Are they still there anyone know? :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 20, 2011, 03:14:17 AM
I think that's all fine and good but in reality total BS.

It IS uncommon and usually illegal to move animals across state lines without the proper testing and paperwork.

The "price tag" is cheap in comparison to an "issue".



Why does the res have the right to put Washington Agriculture at risk because they don't want to pony up the cost of doing it correctly?  Why do the cattlemen have to pony up the $$$ to test, release, read, then resample any animals with a reaction?  That causes stress to the cattle, as well as labor etc.

Don't get me too wrong here.  I like that people had a goal and got it done.  I do believe it to end up in a train wreck, but this type of BS of shipping before anyone knows if there were any positives is crazy.  I suppose the rules apply to those that follow them.




no laws have been broken and yes they still do transport cattle and other live stock across state line without test in hand...why do you think its just the NATION the nevada state game is in it to along with the SCI...

I transport horses every year across state lines and I am required to have them vet checked and vaccinated or it is a violation of law. Don't get me wrong, I am very glad to see antelope being brought in, but gringo has raised a valid question and I do hope some precautions were taken.

When you travel to New Zealand everything is inspected. They have a pretty clean country and they want to keep it that way which is smarter than the US has been in the past. If your boots are even dirty and if you have visited a farm or hunted anywhere recently, they sterilize your boots. One time I had an arrow in my quiver that I had killed my muskox with, it had a new broadhead but still had some blood on the shaft, they cleaned and sterilized it. This is how they have prevented the spread of disease, noxious weeds, etc.

So even though I fully support the transplant, I do hope precautions were taken.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 20, 2011, 04:21:51 AM
I believe at this point in the conversation it's going to get real quiet.  Once results come back and should they come back all negative, at that point people will start chiming in and saying how they tested em all and were all negative.  Fact is, they can't say that right now. 

The part I don't understand is how this is possible.  It seems that the res can do what they want and therefore may not have to follow the "rules" that are in place BUT they had to drive across Washington State public ground to get to their res where our rules and laws don't apply.  This was a irresponsible act.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BallisticsNut on January 20, 2011, 05:26:25 AM
I believe at this point in the conversation it's going to get real quiet.  Once results come back and should they come back all negative, at that point people will start chiming in and saying how they tested em all and were all negative.  Fact is, they can't say that right now. 

The part I don't understand is how this is possible.  It seems that the res can do what they want and therefore may not have to follow the "rules" that are in place BUT they had to drive across Washington State public ground to get to their res where our rules and laws don't apply.  This was a irresponsible act.

I think people are making judgement calls without ALL the facts.  This has been "work in progress" for several years, this I know.  I also know that SCI is not in the business of breaking laws nor supporting functions that break laws.  I do know that SCI has spent nearly a hundred thousand of dollars on studies, testing and more studies and more testing before this even got off the ground.  Thats a lot of money to spend from a non profit organization.  Does it really make sense to anyone that they would do this and break the law?  C'mon guys, quit passing judgement until you have all the facts. 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 20, 2011, 06:00:13 AM
Quote
I believe at this point in the conversation it's going to get real quiet.

Clarification...
I believe at this point the conversation will get very quiet except for people who blindly defend and assume people are blindly accusing.

I am not blindly accusing.  When I asked around I was told they are waiting for the test results.  Seems pretty clear to me.


I don't like being a nay-sayer or just bitching so I'm going to let this go.  You guys know where I stand, that irresponsible risks were taken which put Washington Ag at risk. 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on January 20, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
Even though I think gringo made a very good point, I just can't imagine any SCI chapter purposefully breaking any laws. I would think there is more to this story or perhaps they really don't need prior testing, I simply can't believe the release was not done in a legal manner.  :twocents:

Again, I am very glad to see antelope being brought to Washington and hope they bring additional animals in the future. Nice to see something positive happening in regards to wildlife in this state.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on January 20, 2011, 06:31:34 AM
Wouldnt it be nice if we could be this careful about who moves in our neighborhoods. THey cant move here. Have they had their shots. They could lower the values of the property. :'(   :'( :'( :'(  I think its all class envy. People cant give the natives credit for anything other than bad... BRAVO for the tribe... 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Viszla on January 20, 2011, 08:12:24 AM
Quote
I think its all class envy. People cant give the natives credit for anything other than bad... BRAVO for the tribe...

I don't think the tribe needs any credit for this.  What would you expect them to do, turn down the offer?  If someone wanted to put antelope on my property I surely would not turn them down.  Shame on WDFW for not being part of this, however.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on January 20, 2011, 08:21:58 AM
I think that's all fine and good but in reality total BS.

It IS uncommon and usually illegal to move animals across state lines without the proper testing and paperwork.

The "price tag" is cheap in comparison to an "issue".



Why does the res have the right to put Washington Agriculture at risk because they don't want to pony up the cost of doing it correctly?  Why do the cattlemen have to pony up the $$$ to test, release, read, then resample any animals with a reaction?  That causes stress to the cattle, as well as labor etc.

Don't get me too wrong here.  I like that people had a goal and got it done.  I do believe it to end up in a train wreck, but this type of BS of shipping before anyone knows if there were any positives is crazy.  I suppose the rules apply to those that follow them.



I agree that testing should be done for any transplanted critters with a possibility to spread disease to existing populations.....I also can see where keeping them in captivity too long poses a risk of intense stress, however most tests I would think could be rushed..I have paid through the nose to get my blood tests back so my horses could cross state lines.  I wonder if the test results were cleared and just not in hand at the moment of release?? and I'd love to hear from someone who actually was involved in this release because I still think its pretty cool.

Ag and wildlife wars in WA will continue we have wolves and we have sheep the wild sheep lovers hate the domestic sheep producers...the buffalo farms also arent too fond of sheep...its all about control and cash in this state very rarely is it actually about much else ...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 20, 2011, 08:24:22 AM
The rez is sovereign land they can do what they want.  Who cares?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 20, 2011, 08:37:28 AM
The rez is sovereign land.  But, they can't go buy a foot and mouth cow from South Korea and ship it to Wapato. 

It might be an extreme example but it makes my point.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 20, 2011, 08:48:23 AM
I disagree.. they can do what they want unless the feds and the BIA say NO.

a few 1000 goats aren't going to harm anyone. If there sick they can be quickly killed of over a long weekend..

I wonder if the colville's/spokane's want some goats or buffalo :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: nwwanderer on January 20, 2011, 10:10:49 AM
I am glad someone mentioned foot and mouth.  While we are at it throw in brucellosis, lepto, etc.  The Washington State Department of Agriculture gets real involved real fast with a major disease.  Call the state vet and ask him the protocol for a threat and a positive animal, with foot and mouth all critters in a area are killed.  If a 5000 cow dairy, a 40,000 head feedlot or 3,000 elk at a feeding station are in that circle they all die.  Of course it would be tough to kill all of the elk, deer, antelope, horses, range cattle, llamas, alpacas and family pet milk cows but they would give it their best shot.  Pardon the pun.  The USDA and the FDA cooperate fully with these procedures.  I assume SCI followed the rules.  Time and tests will tell the whole story.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 20, 2011, 10:53:53 AM
Quote
Call the state vet and ask him
if this relocation had his blessing?  I'll save you the time.  No, it didn't.


Quote
Time and tests will tell the whole story.

The "story" is that the animals were shipped before they had test results.  Time will tell if this was a major screw up or just some poor judgement.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Practical Approach on January 20, 2011, 02:50:03 PM
Quote
I think its all class envy. People cant give the natives credit for anything other than bad... BRAVO for the tribe...

I don't think the tribe needs any credit for this.  What would you expect them to do, turn down the offer?  If someone wanted to put antelope on my property I surely would not turn them down.  Shame on WDFW for not being part of this, however.
The Tribe definitely should get credit, just as all of the other organizations and volunteers that helped. They didn't get antelope offered to them, they took the initiative and asked for them.

Viszla - Check out the link for the nonbelievers. http://www.ndow.org/learn/com/mtg/062708_support/Yakama_Tribal_Council_ltr.pdf (http://www.ndow.org/learn/com/mtg/062708_support/Yakama_Tribal_Council_ltr.pdf)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: skier2480 on January 20, 2011, 05:42:56 PM
2 QUESTIONS:

1- Are there wolves in the area?

2- Do wolves eat Antelope?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2011, 05:46:16 PM
I think No and No... Only because they couldn't catch em
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: biggdogg on January 20, 2011, 05:59:03 PM
who ever gave the info about the antelope not being tested r full of it, anyways antelope taste like sh*t so who cares where they rome 2 as long as they don't go off reservation and sportsmen get to shoot them oops i forgot that's what the indians r doing to your guys elk so i guess it's ok, so maybe if they make their way off rez we can talk all the smack about u guys shooting all our male antelope. LOL
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 270Shooter on January 20, 2011, 06:35:46 PM
who ever gave the info about the antelope not being tested r full of it, anyways antelope taste like sh*t so who cares where they rome 2 as long as they don't go off reservation and sportsmen get to shoot them oops i forgot that's what the indians r doing to your guys elk so i guess it's ok, so maybe if they make their way off rez we can talk all the smack about u guys shooting all our male antelope. LOL
Another intelligent response
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 724wd on January 20, 2011, 07:32:51 PM
antelope taste like sh*t

 :yike:  BITE YOUR TONGUE!  if mishandled, like any game, they can be tainted, but antelope are fine table fare!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: biggdogg on January 20, 2011, 08:13:06 PM
Another intelligent remark now u know what most people on heresound like,doesn't anyone have sense of humor anymore so quick to call an indian a *censored* in a nice way. Can't give the tribe credit for anything always nit picking everything apart. P. S. I hope no one gets to hunt them if they survive not even yakamas. Can't poach them because if they did to them like they did to the goats they all have the transmitters on them somewhere so they can track them
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fishunt247 on January 20, 2011, 09:12:53 PM
I think MOST are commending the tribe on their actions. I for sure am. There really isn't much out in that area...so the chance of any disease (if present) to spread and cause a disaster before the test results get back is ultra slim.

I think it is really good PR for the tribe. This release hightlights the good Yakama apples.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2011, 09:49:29 PM
 :yeah:
After so much Yakima bashing about other topics Bigdog, your statement makes no sense.  :bash:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PolarBear on January 20, 2011, 09:50:49 PM
antelope taste like sh*t
Only if you don't get the hide off of it a.s.a.p.!  Their hair lays down flat after it is dead and creates an insulator.  Pronghorns will bone sour faster than just about any other North American big game.  That is why so many folks say they taste like crap, that and the fact that they are eating sage as well.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 20, 2011, 11:15:11 PM
Quote
who ever gave the info about the antelope not being tested r full of it

I know they were tested.  But why test if you don't know the results?  Due to poor protocol and improper procedure I wish the state would have stopped those trucks at the state line.  I don't think the tribe has any tribal rights at the board of entry.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Practical Approach on January 21, 2011, 06:58:57 AM
I don't think it makes sense to sit back and Monday morning quarterback a project based on one small news article that is based primarily on volunteer quotes. We all know that reporters never misquote and always give the full story. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on January 21, 2011, 07:19:09 AM
Fair statement.  But I have yet to read any news article and I'm not wrong.I said it was going to get quiet.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on January 21, 2011, 07:36:52 AM
I got bored...once we get to about 7 pages of arguing I usually grow bored...dont like arguing  :dunno: I still think speed goats in WA is the coolest thing ever if it works..... way better than starlings or nutrias or milfoil or Himalayan blackberries to be sure ;)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 21, 2011, 07:43:16 AM
Right...lots of threads quiet down after 11 pages and 5-6 days.

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on January 21, 2011, 07:47:31 AM
amazing really
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 21, 2011, 08:17:10 PM
Finally got a chance to upload the capture videos I got from Spotted Horse in Nevada onto youtube.

Nevada antelope capture for relocation in Washington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfocJwVe8qk#)

Antelope Nevada to Washington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDMrOhn5PPE#)

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on January 21, 2011, 08:33:38 PM
those are some cool vids...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 21, 2011, 08:38:01 PM
wow.... those things are fast!!!!  cool how they stay in a tight group like that
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: gasman on January 21, 2011, 08:55:08 PM
Ribka ms I loved watching the Antelope move when we went to WY. hunting this last season. I clocked one running along the road at 55mph and I backed off, because it was comming across the road we were on  :chuckle: :chuckle:

They are fast and fun to watch move like a school of fish.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 21, 2011, 09:00:47 PM
WHAT HAPPENED RIGHT AT THE END OF THE SECOND VIDEO?   :dunno:  WAS A NET THROWN AT THEM OR DD THEY JUST TRIP?   :dunno:

SORTA LOOKED LIKE BLOOD FLYING EVERYWHERE  :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on January 21, 2011, 09:08:30 PM
No blood. Pretty sure it was an orange net that was set up on the ground that they ran into.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on January 21, 2011, 09:10:22 PM
OH.. OK.. I SEE IT NOW,  SOME OF THEM ACTUALLY JUMPED OVER THE NET BEFORE OTHERS GOT TANGLED IN IT,    :) 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 21, 2011, 09:14:54 PM
Those are some cool vids! That pilot is wicked!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bigelk1030 on January 21, 2011, 10:24:52 PM
Awesome Vid!  Thanks for sharing!!!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 22, 2011, 07:06:30 AM
cool Vid.  I thought they just tripped over each other.  Watching it on a "mini laptop" so the picture was real small.  I didn't see the net...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: dontgetcrabs on January 22, 2011, 08:19:53 AM
On the first vid they shot the net out of the helicopter.  That would be a heck of ride.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: C-Money on January 22, 2011, 08:49:59 AM
Very cool! Yes sir re, that pilot has skills!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: spottedhorse on January 22, 2011, 09:42:58 AM
I am so glad to see the videos posted- thank you Jackalope for figuring the youtube uploads out. I was on there for 4 hours on one of them, just to have it tell me 'upload failed.'....Grrrrr
There wasn't any blood; just a lot of dirt flying. Those last antelope were really moving when he netted them and the momentum carried them pretty far- almost right to the truck. The video stops there because we had to fly out of the truck to make sure they don't thrash & hurt themselves. I too thought that pilot was a bad-ass; he is also a young guy at 34 years. Amazing that he has that kind of talent at that age!
Has anyone gone out any looked to see if the herd is faring well? I was hoping that the losses will be minimal, and that most of the does will have babies in the spring.
Amy
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: hirshey on January 27, 2011, 10:55:26 PM
Quote
who ever gave the info about the antelope not being tested r full of it

I know they were tested.  But why test if you don't know the results?  Due to poor protocol and improper procedure I wish the state would have stopped those trucks at the state line.  I don't think the tribe has any tribal rights at the board of entry.

I agree with you, Gringo..

They were sampled for later testing.. but in none of the news releases have I read they were TESTED; it in fact states "testing is expensive.. so we're still working it out" in a few of the news releases' quotes from this past week. I'm all for introducing these animals if indeed the habitat assessments and environmental impact statements have been performed (and hopefully accurately)... and if all the test results show these animals are perfectly healthy... but why spend all of this money in the off-chance you have to immediately extirpate them? Aren't the additional funds worth ensuring all our current game animals and domestic animals are safe?  :dunno: I, too love antelope but why the rush?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Raul Duke on January 28, 2011, 08:12:48 AM
has anyone gone out to see how they are doing? I'd love to see footage of them running around here in WA.

:bad ass pilot:  8)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Bluemoon on January 28, 2011, 08:30:52 AM
Does anyone here remember when there used to be a herd of them on Rocky Ford Creek between Moses Lake and Ephrata?  They were mainly wiped out by cars on Highway 17.  I think I found the last dead one.
This was back when Jim Evans was the Game Warden in Moses Lake.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: aer212 on February 27, 2011, 11:20:08 PM
I am so glad to see the videos posted- thank you Jackalope for figuring the youtube uploads out. I was on there for 4 hours on one of them, just to have it tell me 'upload failed.'....Grrrrr
There wasn't any blood; just a lot of dirt flying. Those last antelope were really moving when he netted them and the momentum carried them pretty far- almost right to the truck. The video stops there because we had to fly out of the truck to make sure they don't thrash & hurt themselves. I too thought that pilot was a bad-ass; he is also a young guy at 34 years. Amazing that he has that kind of talent at that age!
Has anyone gone out any looked to see if the herd is faring well? I was hoping that the losses will be minimal, and that most of the does will have babies in the spring.
Amy

Where were they released at? Right near Satus pass? On the west side or east side of highway 97? I live in Goldendale so it only about a 15-20 minute drive to the pass
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on February 28, 2011, 06:15:20 AM
They have splintered with small groups going every which way... I saw 6 on the hill above the toppenish scale last sun. Some more in the poisel butte area. I dont know if there are any drifting south or east. All the movement seems to be to the west....
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: engelwood on February 28, 2011, 10:15:54 PM
Very cool stuff. I've been wanting to seem the reintroduced into WA for a long time. I always think that the area from Goldendale, to Yakima, and east of there would be great territory for them. Glad to see they will be in that general area.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fair-chase on March 26, 2011, 09:28:14 PM
 :bumpin:


Just curious if anyone had an update or seen the herd lately.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: CamoDup on March 27, 2011, 12:19:45 AM
i was just thinking about this yesterday also on my way to the columbia to go fishing. anyone heard anything?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Little Dave on March 27, 2011, 12:34:35 AM
I have actually.  What I've heard is that they have left the reservation.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: madmack76 on March 27, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
if they were on the res they probably are gone buy now what a waste i wish i could hunt them but it won't happen another empty dream
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: zackmioli on March 27, 2011, 03:23:40 AM
hope these critters survive and stay healthy. would love to get a chance to photograph and possibly hunt them one day.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on March 27, 2011, 04:41:01 PM
Quote
I have actually.  What I've heard is that they have left the reservation.

+1

I was going to go out and find them as I know some guys that have spotted a group of 15.  They went east.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: CamoDup on March 27, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
ya im really really really really hoping they leave the rez! cant wait to see how they do in a few years.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on March 28, 2011, 06:42:46 AM
Saw the same 6 that have been hanging around here on thurs. There is no main group. They have splintered into lots of small groups. I haven't seen the tribe biologist out here for a couple of weeks. Sorry no pics.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: danderson on March 28, 2011, 07:03:50 AM
I heard the last time this was done they ended up north of vantage
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: KINGWOODROW on March 28, 2011, 09:27:20 PM
One guy said they went east, one guy said they went west, one guy says theyre on the hill above Toppenish, one guy says they left the reservation, roflmao   :chuckle:  i heard from a guy that they are at the head of clockum creek  :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 28, 2011, 09:54:49 PM
I thought they went to the Blues with the massive herds of elk.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: denali on March 28, 2011, 10:28:27 PM
Nah, they swam the Yak and are running with the Hanford bulls, saw it on the internets
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on March 28, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
well heck they do call em speed goats  :dunno: they get around fast  :chuckle: :chuckle: surprised they haven't been sighted at St Helens yet  :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fair-chase on March 28, 2011, 11:18:50 PM
Good Lord, all I wanted was to know was if anyone had seen them.  :chuckle:  Now we have a full blown invasion of speed goats taking over the former elk ranges of the blues and hanford. I'm not sure how bigfoot is going to feel about this whole ordeal.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: ORCA_SIX on March 29, 2011, 02:55:23 AM
Hopefully they do not get all wiped out. That would suck. Maybe they are running back to Nevada. Taxes might be better there for them.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on March 29, 2011, 07:45:03 AM
http://othellooutlook.com/?p=17742 (http://othellooutlook.com/?p=17742)


Quote
Pronghorns are back in Washington state

Pronghorn antelope are again living in Washington state. Photo by Harvey Doerksen, U.S. Fish and Wildlife.
By Jim Pearson

Contributing writer

Antelope are once again running around Washington state, thanks to Safari Club International (SCI), the Yakama Indian Nation, the State of Nevada and several dedicated individuals.

No thanks are in order to Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, a bureaucracy that stood in the way and threw roadblocks at the project every chance they got.

The Department of Game (that’s what WDFW called itself before they combined with the Fisheries Department) thought it was a good idea at one time, so they planted some in the Yakima Training Center. A small band of pronghorns lived there for many years but, approximately 40 years ago, disappeared.

The transplant idea was hatched in the Yakima Valley and the local SCI chapter (of which I’m a member) paid WDFW to do a feasibility study. I correctly predicted the study would cost lots of money while accomplishing nothing.

Along the way, other SCI chapters in this state chipped in thousands of dollars, but eventually, those chapters dropped out because nothing was happening in spite of all the money being handed to WDFW.

The central Washington chapter of SCI was discouraged, too, but then someone heard the Yakama Indians wanted antelope on their reservation.

They could do it because they are a sovereign nation that doesn’t need to deal with federal or state bureaucracies. Not only that, they knew where to get the animals. Seems the Indians on the reservation near Elko, Nev., would furnish the antelope if someone paid for the capture. No problem, SCI told them. Go!

Transplanted antelope were supposed to be on the ground a year ago, but the capture helicopter crashed and plans were put on hold for a year.

After that, the Nevada Department of Wildlife said they would furnish 100 animals for the project. Seems the prairie goats were overpopulated in one area, but someone else had to pay for the capture. Again, no problem, said SCI.

Four trucks pulling horse trailers left the Yakima Valley headed for Elko Jan. 19, where they watched a successful capture of 100 goats.

Veterinarians were on hand to treat the animals for overheating and Nevada wildlife officials fixed a radio collar to the neck of each of them. Tom Perry and Bill Shields drove one of the trucks, but Tom said one of the antelope decided she didn’t want to participate. She jumped over the other antelope, over the heads of several men and ran away into the night. So much for the claim antelope can’t jump.

After that, the trucks headed home — fast! Pronghorns don’t handle truck rides well. I won’t tell you how fast Bill drove that truck, but he was pulled over in Mabton for running a stop sign.

When the cop asked him the reason for his hurry, Bill said he had 37 live antelopes in the trailer and they needed to be on the ground ASAP. Otherwise, they would begin to die. “Go,” the cop said and late that night, 99 goats hit the ground, all of them alive.

Since then, Jim Stephenson, the Yakama Indian Reservation biologist, reports three have died, leaving 96 live antelopes in a state where none used to be and I’m eating crow because I said it would never happen.

A few days ago, my friend Jerry Crone, who lives in Prosser, called saying, “You ain’t going to believe this.” Seems a friend had seen two antelopes standing on the ridge top beside the road that runs from Mabton to Bickleton.

If the goats cross that road, they will be off the reservation and onto public and private lands. That, of course, will give WDFW the chance to claim they need more money because now they need to manage antelope.

Jerry hadn’t heard about the antelope project, so I filled him in on the details.

The Yakamas issue a few coyote-killing permits to non-tribal members, so Jim Stephenson is directing them to the area where the antelopes were released. Coyotes love to feast on their new-born fawns.

Some cattlemen aren’t happy. They claim they’re afraid the animals will bring brucellosis, tuberculosis or other diseases, but I think the truth is this: They don’t want antelope eating the grass they want to feed their cattle.

There is no incidence of those diseases in prairie goats in Nevada and nowhere else, either, and a complete veterinary examination of each animal is impossible because of the time factor. Most of the animals would die before they could be released.

I have sat on this story for a month now waiting for a press release from the Yakamas as per SCI’s agreement, but that evidently isn’t going to happen.

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Short URL: http://othellooutlook.com/?p=17742 (http://othellooutlook.com/?p=17742)

Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on March 30, 2011, 09:54:39 PM
This afternoon I saw my first Washington antelope.  (4 does) I'll see if I can post pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wsucowboy on March 30, 2011, 11:05:56 PM
This afternoon I saw my first Washington antelope.  (4 does) I'll see if I can post pics tomorrow.
good deal! Where did you see them?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on March 31, 2011, 07:07:57 AM
Horse Heaven Hills

I'll post pics in the pictures thread.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Raul Duke on April 05, 2011, 01:10:42 PM
Saturday April 2, I got off work early. So my son and I headed out to Goldendale to try and get him a gobbler. Leaving Toppenish, rite after the first big hill. About a 1.5 miles past the scales (headed south). I catch a glimpse of small white animals. I pull over and about 200yrd off the road, is a group of 9 speed goats.  WOW!  That kept us talking all the way to Goldendale.  Glad to finalley see these animals first hand. Can't wait for the day we get to hunt them.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: HunterJim on April 18, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
So I have been following this thread as I would love to see these animals thrive in this reintroduction.  Never thought I would see antelope/pronghorn in Washington!  Driving down to Goldendale for the turkey opener and was traveling south on HWY 97 out of Toppenish.  Started heading up the grade and found these does off to the west above the Toppenish Wildlife Refuge Area...  Great to actually see them!!!!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: denali on April 18, 2011, 05:05:53 PM
Very cool hunterjim   8)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: rb2506 on April 18, 2011, 05:08:13 PM
awesome pics
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: C-Money on April 18, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
 :yeah: Very cool!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: saylean on April 21, 2011, 09:47:46 PM
Nice pics. My buddy at the WDFW told me bout this....im pretty pleased. I would love to be able to eventually go after a WA antelope. I hope they take.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on April 21, 2011, 09:49:01 PM
Seems like they (or some) spread out real fast and now they are content where they are.  I see this one group within .5 miles of the same spot now for several weeks.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 22, 2011, 02:27:31 PM
Those are some very good pics!  I can't wait to get out there and see them up close and in person.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: unc32 on May 06, 2011, 09:57:52 PM
Received these in an email. Apparently this group was south of Kennewick this week.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: runamuk on May 06, 2011, 10:12:33 PM
cool pics...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fair-chase on May 06, 2011, 10:31:50 PM
Great pics Unc32. I'm so excited to have them around town here.  :IBCOOL:

Curious to see if they stop heading east when they get to the highway or if they will cross and keep going until they hit the river.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: C-Money on May 07, 2011, 02:47:57 PM
Wonder when fawns will start dropping? Hope some made the trip north pregnant.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: carpsniperg2 on May 07, 2011, 02:58:21 PM
SWEET! thanks for sharing the pic's keep them coming when you get them. We love to see them  :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: rebal69972 on May 07, 2011, 06:09:04 PM
great pics guys. i cant wait to get to hunt them
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 400out on May 07, 2011, 06:39:46 PM
If anyone sees them around kennewick please herd them away for their own good PLEASE! there is a reason the deer herd is in such bad shape around here  :bash: Hate to see them not even get a chance  :twocents:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fair-chase on May 07, 2011, 06:57:27 PM
400, do you think they were safer on the res? Serious question, not being sarcastic.

I think if they cross the highway and hit some of the open land around Finley they would be wiped out pretty fast but the farm land where there at now or even further south to Agri NW land should be about as safe as it gets in the Columbia Basin.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on May 13, 2011, 08:59:39 PM
update on the antelope. The original release included 62 pregnant females, 21 fawn females, 5 fawn males and 7 adult males. to date there is 4 know mortalities. Apparently about 1/2 of them are still hanging around the original release site and the rest have turned into wanders. As I see you know they are currently know to be on YTC around Ellensburg to Rye Grass and over to Kennewick. They are expecting fawning to occur 1st of June with an aggressive predator control program in the works now.  With the verbal support of WDFW and funds from Shikar and SCI we hope to release another 100 antelope this next January and hopefully again the next January. The plan is to not let this fail.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: fair-chase on May 13, 2011, 09:05:28 PM
wahunter, that's great news that they are already planing on bringing in more. Do they have a population objective that they would like to reach? Is this going to be an annual thing until there is a sustainable (hate that word) population?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on May 13, 2011, 09:24:22 PM
We did a feasability study back in 2005 which indicate what the population objectives would be in areas. I do not believe this would be that hard to achieve. With the fact that I feel WDFW is supporting the releases it should go easier. Any time you are working with the tribes things tend to go slow. Right now they are the best alterative with possible release coming in the Quilomene and hopefully YTC if the feds can be worked with too. If  the Colvilles and the Spokanes come on board and we can find the antelope and the funds I think we will be surprized what might happen. We are working with the Yakama Nation to help fund their studies currently and will try to keep this happening.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BC CHASER on May 13, 2011, 09:26:42 PM
How about the "adopt an antelope" fund?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on May 13, 2011, 09:36:47 PM
I SAW 6 THIS MORNING.  DIDN'T HAVE A CAMERA WITH ME.   JUST ABOVE BENTON CITY.  UP ON THE HILLS IN THE FEILDS
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on May 13, 2011, 09:38:26 PM
That time will come when we say we need sponsors. $400 per antelope might just do it, right now we have it covered. Currently the Seattle Sportsmen's Conservation Foundation has a dedicated account for antelope as well as the Seattle Puget Sound Chapter of SCI as well as the Central Chapter of SCI in Yakima. If anyone wants to make a donation that would be dedicated to antelope any one of these groups would except it. We have been working on this for a long time and actually dedicating the money to this project know it would eventually happen. Your money or donations would not be misused.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: aer212 on May 13, 2011, 10:04:52 PM
update on the antelope. The original release included 62 pregnant females, 21 fawn females, 5 fawn males and 7 adult males. to date there is 4 know mortalities. Apparently about 1/2 of them are still hanging around the original release site and the rest have turned into wanders. As I see you know they are currently know to be on YTC around Ellensburg to Rye Grass and over to Kennewick. They are expecting fawning to occur 1st of June with an aggressive predator control program in the works now.  With the verbal support of WDFW and funds from Shikar and SCI we hope to release another 100 antelope this next January and hopefully again the next January. The plan is to not let this fail.

What is the aggressive predator control program? Any way to get in on it?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: ORCA_SIX on May 14, 2011, 03:09:16 AM
 :yeah:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on May 14, 2011, 08:55:35 AM
Guess I can not answer that one, I believe they told us they removed 44 coyotes last week and were going to get even more aggressive in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: couesbitten on May 14, 2011, 10:20:13 AM
My son and I saw the six near Benton City just this morning.  We weren't close enough to see specifics, and I didn't bring the spotting scope, but there's supposed to be a buck with this group.  We didn't have a camera with us, and they were close to a mile away.  Very neat to see, hope they take hold.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Raul Duke on May 15, 2011, 07:01:45 PM
Just seen 11 on the same ridge heading out of Toppenish. They seem to like it there.  8)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on May 16, 2011, 06:46:05 AM
HA!! They have left the hills and are headed to town.... Well thats what Im a guessing cause 3  were on the pavement headed to Hwy 22 past my house on  thursday ...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wsucowboy on May 17, 2011, 10:25:32 PM
HA!! They have left the hills and are headed to town.... Well thats what Im a guessing cause 3  were on the pavement headed to Hwy 22 past my house on  thursday ...
hopefully none of them end up as roadkill
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: 724wd on May 19, 2011, 11:03:28 AM
when was the original population of antelope in washington killed off?  i know they've done a couple of re-introductions, but i'm thinking more about the population Lewis & Clark might have encountered... the originals.

heath
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 19, 2011, 11:15:50 AM
I hope they take and we have more to hunt.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: D360 on May 24, 2011, 01:22:20 PM
Hey if the WDFW needs help taking out coyotes to help prepare for the fawning season I guess I could do my part  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: UBA on May 24, 2011, 01:35:35 PM
Do antelope tend to roam around like this naturally or is this due to being introduced to a foreign area? And if so, do you think some could naturally roam their way into washington? I don't know anything about antelope and always wonder this.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on May 24, 2011, 01:57:06 PM
I'M NOT TOO SURE ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY ROAM,  BUT I THINK THEY MIGRATE KIND OF LKE ELK..  DEPENDING ON THE SNOW,..  :dunno:   AS FOR ROAMING INTO WASHINGTON ON THEIR OWN,  ITS VERY POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO GET INTO WASHINGTON FROM NORTHEASTERN OREGON, (WHERE THE RIVER ISN'T IN THE WAY)
BUT I DOUBT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO GET OVER THE COLUMBIA OR SNAKE.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 24, 2011, 04:39:58 PM
I have seen antelope as close as just a few minutes south of Pendelton, OR (about 45 minutes south of me-with no natural barriers between here and there).  Never seen any north of Pendelton.  I think if they were going to "wander" up here, it would have already happened.  I agree with the "natural migration route" thing.  I think though that Washington is not anywhere in that route... :dunno:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: lhrbull on June 13, 2011, 04:51:05 AM
here in washington will their many food source be the wheat fields, the crp, the desert sage areas and how close will they stay to year round water?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: cem3434 on June 13, 2011, 07:45:33 AM
They will do fine as long as they are properly managed.  I am younger, so it pretty awesome to think that I may have a chance in my lifetime to antelope in Washington. Heres to dreaming!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bearpaw on June 13, 2011, 08:25:04 AM
here in washington will their many food source be the wheat fields, the crp, the desert sage areas and how close will they stay to year round water?

Antelope water every day, so they will stay close to a water source. I imagine they are moving around trying to figure out where they want to set up their home range, they are in a new land. In some areas of Montana and Wyoming, antelope will wander great distances between winter and summer range.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: sebek556 on June 13, 2011, 08:34:38 AM
wdfw manage something right?   :yike: never gonna happen
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Elkrunner on June 13, 2011, 12:19:31 PM
I can't wait to see them.  Should be a neat thing to see in this state.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wsucowboy on June 13, 2011, 02:22:38 PM
wdfw manage something right?   :yike: never gonna happen
:yeah:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on June 13, 2011, 08:18:55 PM
More wolf food.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: cem3434 on June 13, 2011, 10:03:38 PM
wdfw manage something right?   :yike: never gonna happen

Thats why I said here's to dreaming!
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: cem3434 on June 13, 2011, 10:04:39 PM
More wolf food.

If the wolves make it down into Yakima County, I think we are going to have bigger problems.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Elkrunner on June 14, 2011, 11:45:25 AM
More wolf food.

If the wolves make it down into Yakima County, I think we are going to have bigger problems.

I would hate to see if a big pack made it into the colockum area or down around the naches wintering grounds...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Bluemoon on June 14, 2011, 12:01:02 PM
"If the wolves make it down into Yakima County, I think we are going to have bigger problems."

They are already there and have been there for years!  I was seeing them there in the late 80's.   And yes wolves not coyote's. 
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: jackelope on June 14, 2011, 12:27:09 PM
I have seen antelope as close as just a few minutes south of Pendelton, OR (about 45 minutes south of me-with no natural barriers between here and there).  Never seen any north of Pendelton.  I think if they were going to "wander" up here, it would have already happened.  I agree with the "natural migration route" thing.  I think though that Washington is not anywhere in that route... :dunno:
There's no antelope in the Blues?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on June 14, 2011, 07:27:12 PM
I have seen antelope as close as just a few minutes south of Pendelton, OR (about 45 minutes south of me-with no natural barriers between here and there).  Never seen any north of Pendelton.  I think if they were going to "wander" up here, it would have already happened.  I agree with the "natural migration route" thing.  I think though that Washington is not anywhere in that route... :dunno:
There's no antelope in the Blues?

Good point.  If any goats came up from Oregon without doubt Bfoot would have devoured them as soon as they came within sight of the Washington border...  I guess that explains it.
...can't argue with science...
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on August 01, 2011, 11:06:46 AM
Spotted 2 does and 4 fawns yesterday on the Horse Heaven Hills.....they looked good.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on August 01, 2011, 11:13:44 AM
Very cool, any pics?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: BIGINNER on August 01, 2011, 11:15:01 AM
Spotted 2 does and 4 fawns yesterday on the Horse Heaven Hills.....they looked good.

awesome!! gotta go look for them again sometime.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: CamoDup on August 01, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
Im with u biginner.. I need to make that drive and go spot some.  its just a hop and a skip from us..
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: wa.hunter on August 02, 2011, 06:47:07 PM
Nice to know some of you are still seeing them. The Yakama Tribe Biologist flew looking for them a few weeks ago and found out the were pretty spread out. They are having problems locating them. If anyone sees them and can identify their location, ear tag #, and color of ear tag it would be greatly appreciate. So far 1 of the bucks drown in an irrigation canal and another was hit on 97 headed to Goldendale. Things are looking pretty possitive about bring in another 100+ this winter.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 03, 2011, 08:52:48 AM
Nice to know some of you are still seeing them. The Yakama Tribe Biologist flew looking for them a few weeks ago and found out the were pretty spread out. They are having problems locating them. If anyone sees them and can identify their location, ear tag #, and color of ear tag it would be greatly appreciate. So far 1 of the bucks drown in an irrigation canal and another was hit on 97 headed to Goldendale. Things are looking pretty possitive about bring in another 100+ this winter.

Thanks for the info. and I've been through the pass at least 3 or 4 times in the last few weeks but it's always been on business so I've been more worried about work and not hitting or looking around for something and I've been trying to plan a nice weekend getaway to the south east portion where these guys were released to see if I can get some good pics.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on August 03, 2011, 08:56:20 AM
I didn't read through this whole thread due to time.
 
Anyone seen any Babies?  Got any pictures?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Widgeondeke on August 03, 2011, 03:19:05 PM
Spotted 2 does and 4 fawns yesterday on the Horse Heaven Hills.....they looked good.
Michelle - see above  :chuckle:  :yeah:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on August 04, 2011, 10:13:52 AM
Not the best pics but here are the ones I took.  The skyline antelope were about 50 yards from the bottom picture ones.  One doe has a yellow tag, the other orange.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/Dirtydog_pics/Wildlife%202011/DSC_11921.jpg)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/Dirtydog_pics/Wildlife%202011/DSC_11931.jpg)
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 04, 2011, 10:21:37 AM
Great shots, do you have a location of where you took the pics?  I followed up on the earlier post about the Tribes Biologist having to track them via helicopter and they did confirm they are taking any info. on the locations, tags and how many you've seen so they can log the info.  I was also talking to a relative that works over there and they have some helpers that are just sitting around waiting for calls of sightings and they spring to action like batman and robin heading towards where they were seen just to gather as much intel. as they can.

So it sounds like they are really pushing for sustainability and doing everything they can to ensure the survival and success of this first group.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Woodchuck on August 04, 2011, 10:23:54 AM
Very cool, I would think that twins is a real plus.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 04, 2011, 10:29:31 AM
Heck yes, if half the does had twins that doubles the herd in less than a year. :yike:  Double the size every year for a couple of years and that sounds like a sustainable herd with enough to start developing a plan to allow permit hunting. :tup:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on August 04, 2011, 10:44:44 AM
Plateau,
I'm not trying to be difficult....but outside of a count or location, what can be done?  What exactly is a sustainability push or what tools do they have to ensure the survival or success of the first group?  What power does the tribe have to do really anything for animals that have traveled outside of the res?

I hope I'm not coming across wrong.  I'm glad to see antelope here in Washington but don't like how it was ram-rodded through.  I'm also worried that now we will see more restrictions to either access or freedoms due to the now possibly "endangered" antelope we have in our backyard.

Gringo
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: gunnarnewt on August 04, 2011, 11:12:22 AM
     It's my understanding that all does drop fawns. Is that correct? One doe, and one buck. Thereby helping the odds that at least some of the fawns are not devoured by 'yotes before they can keep up with mommy?  :twocents:
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 04, 2011, 01:30:33 PM
Plateau,
I'm not trying to be difficult....but outside of a count or location, what can be done?  What exactly is a sustainability push or what tools do they have to ensure the survival or success of the first group?  What power does the tribe have to do really anything for animals that have traveled outside of the res?

I hope I'm not coming across wrong.  I'm glad to see antelope here in Washington but don't like how it was ram-rodded through.  I'm also worried that now we will see more restrictions to either access or freedoms due to the now possibly "endangered" antelope we have in our backyard.

Gringo

Great question and I don't know the exact plan for the speed goats because they haven't announced it yet and I hear bits and pieces unofficially but they want to restore them to levels for hunting and not just Tribal.  When our Council is on a United Front and tackling important issues (instead of looking out for #1) they do have the Supreme Authority when it comes to Rights guaranteed by the Treaty to Manage and Assist with Managing wildlife on Ceded Land and Tribal Law supercedes State Law on the Reservation and Ceded Land.

It doesn't matter that a lot of them have ventured off the Reservation because if they are still within the Ceded Area therefore, are the Tribes Responsibility and it's my understanding they are working quite well with outside entities and trying to work with the State on establishing relations in regards to these particular animals.

I know you're not trying to be difficult and you didn't come across wrong.  They had initially tried to work with the State and from what I understand the State didn't have the time or resources to assist with this project and to the State it wasn't a priority at the time so that's why the Tribe branched out for some assistance and since we have our own land and jurisdiction of it they decided to move forward with the plan.  It's my understanding that this plan had been going on for quite a few years prior to them even finding a partner.

I plan on speaking with the Tribal Biologist soon just to gather some more info. and increase my knowledge of these beautiful looking animals.  If you got any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Gringo31 on August 05, 2011, 01:31:36 PM
Wow....this was a bit eye opening for me....

It does seem odd that if indeed the tribe has supreme authority when it comes to managing or assisting with managing wildlife on ceded land, why this practice doesn't appear to have taken place prior to antelope.  I wonder why these antelope are not now an endangered species?  How would they be any different than wolves in this state?  Does it matter if the tribe brought them in or if ................?

Thanks for the dialogue.  I'm interested in learning how or who's role it is to manage these animals or even who's animals they are.  I expect this to be a big mess once a speed goat walks off ceded land? 

I understand why the tribe stopped working with WDFW on introduction.  I think it was a bit irresponsible to take the risk they did on the possibility of a disaster to the entire cattle industry in our state.  Which brings up a lot more questions...

Again, thanks for the dialogue.
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: bobcat on August 05, 2011, 06:04:05 PM
I think they're not considered endangered in this state because I don't believe it's ever been proven that they were a native species here. I could be wrong. That's why I said I "THINK".

Otherwise I agree, it would seem like they would be on the state's endangered species list (or EXTINCT). For that matter, what about bison?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: lhrbull on August 06, 2011, 10:46:24 AM
most antelope have twins after there first year of motherhood
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: Pathfinder101 on August 06, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
most antelope have twins after there first year of motherhood

Aren't they like deer; a single their first year, twins the next, then a single, then twins...etc...?
Title: Re: Antelope Reintroduction to Washington
Post by: lhrbull on August 06, 2011, 10:28:22 PM
from the people i've talked to while hunting them in Wyoming they said their heifer year was the only one that was a single but I'm preditors get some so it might look it goes 1-2-1-2
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